"Palestinian" Authority to Collapse

[DavidS]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/world/middleeast/10mideast.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=global-home

RAMALLAH, West Bank — The collapse of the Palestinian Authority, Israel’s negotiating partner, was raised as a possibility on Monday, as several aides to its president, Mahmoud Abbas, said that he intended to resign and forecast that others would follow.
“I think he is realizing that he came all this way with the peace process in order to create a Palestinian state, but he sees no state coming,” Saeb Erekat, the chief Palestinian peace negotiator, said in an interview. “So he really doesn’t think there is a need to be president or to have an Authority. This is not about who is going to replace him. This is about our leaving our posts. You think anybody will stay after he leaves?” Mr. Abbas warned last week that he would not participate in Palestinian elections he called for, to take place in January. But he has threatened several times before to resign, and many viewed this latest step as a ploy by a Hamlet-like leader upset over Israeli and American policy. Many also noted that the vote might not actually be held, given the Palestinian political fracture and the unwillingness of Hamas, which controls Gaza,

 

[The Rabbi]

How will anyone be able to tell the difference? The PA cannot control anything. That someone somewhere thought they could be a legitimate negotiating partner is testament to the willful blindness on the part of the west, Bill Clinton in particular.

 

[DavidS]

How will anyone be able to tell the difference? The PA cannot control anything. That someone somewhere thought they could be a legitimate negotiating partner is testament to the willful blindness on the part of the west, Bill Clinton in particular.

Maybe they'll all just get up and leave and go to the other Arab countries now and give Israel back its land?

Eh, I can dream, can't I?

 

[Shogun]

yea yea yea... jews talking shit about their ****** class. Gosh, THAT is rare and new!

 

[The Rabbi]

How will anyone be able to tell the difference? The PA cannot control anything. That someone somewhere thought they could be a legitimate negotiating partner is testament to the willful blindness on the part of the west, Bill Clinton in particular.

Maybe they'll all just get up and leave and go to the other Arab countries now and give Israel back its land?

Eh, I can dream, can't I?

They've been living with 30% unemployment for decades already. So I don't see that happening.
If there were a receivership for failed states the PA would qualify.

 

[Kalam]

The Zionists are undermining the viability of any future Palestinian state through their continued land-thievery in the West Bank. Abbas has given up hope... at this point, who can blame him?

 

[toomuchtime_]

The Zionists are undermining the viability of any future Palestinian state through their continued land-thievery in the West Bank. Abbas has given up hope... at this point, who can blame him?

Anyone who was genuinely pro Palestinian instead of just using the Palestinians as an excuse to complain about Israel would blame him. Both Israel and the Palestinians claim the land in question. The way to settle the issue is to negotiate a final settlement instead of insisting Israel surrender its claim before negotiations can begin. Refusing to negotiate has been a losing strategy for the Arabs and Palestinians since 1947 and it should surprise no one it continues to be a losing strategy. This makes it hard to believe those who support Abbas' refusal to negotiate without a freeze on construction are really interested in seeing a Palestinain state.

Of course, Abbas cannot be held entirely to blame for the ridiculous position the Palestinians have taken on restarting negotiations. He obviously was misled by Obama into believing the US would forcefully back his hardline position of no talks without a freeze on construction, but now he has been left hanging by Obama and the Netanyahu government has grown stronger by standing up to Obama's hamfisted assault on US Israeli relations.

 

[GHook93]

Let them collapse. Let Hamas take over! Then Israel will have no choice, but negotiate with Hamas. The situation needs one player not two!

 

[Kalam]

The Zionists are undermining the viability of any future Palestinian state through their continued land-thievery in the West Bank. Abbas has given up hope... at this point, who can blame him?

Anyone who was genuinely pro Palestinian instead of just using the Palestinians as an excuse to complain about Israel would blame him. Both Israel and the Palestinians claim the land in question. The way to settle the issue is to negotiate a final settlement instead of insisting Israel surrender its claim before negotiations can begin. Refusing to negotiate has been a losing strategy for the Arabs and Palestinians since 1947 and it should surprise no one it continues to be a losing strategy. This makes it hard to believe those who support Abbas' refusal to negotiate without a freeze on construction are really interested in seeing a Palestinain state.

Of course, Abbas cannot be held entirely to blame for the ridiculous position the Palestinians have taken on restarting negotiations. He obviously was misled by Obama into believing the US would forcefully back his hardline position of no talks without a freeze on construction, but now he has been left hanging by Obama and the Netanyahu government has grown stronger by standing up to Obama's hamfisted assault on US Israeli relations.

Sorry. The Israelis are already in the West Bank illegally. The entire WB would need to be part of a Palestinian state; no negotiating. The loons who settled there could either live in the Palestinian state or march straight back to Israel. No more concessions will be made.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The Zionists are undermining the viability of any future Palestinian state through their continued land-thievery in the West Bank. Abbas has given up hope... at this point, who can blame him?

Anyone who was genuinely pro Palestinian instead of just using the Palestinians as an excuse to complain about Israel would blame him. Both Israel and the Palestinians claim the land in question. The way to settle the issue is to negotiate a final settlement instead of insisting Israel surrender its claim before negotiations can begin. Refusing to negotiate has been a losing strategy for the Arabs and Palestinians since 1947 and it should surprise no one it continues to be a losing strategy. This makes it hard to believe those who support Abbas' refusal to negotiate without a freeze on construction are really interested in seeing a Palestinain state.

Of course, Abbas cannot be held entirely to blame for the ridiculous position the Palestinians have taken on restarting negotiations. He obviously was misled by Obama into believing the US would forcefully back his hardline position of no talks without a freeze on construction, but now he has been left hanging by Obama and the Netanyahu government has grown stronger by standing up to Obama's hamfisted assault on US Israeli relations.

Sorry. The Israelis are already in the West Bank illegally. The entire WB would need to be part of a Palestinian state; no negotiating. The loons who settled there could either live in the Palestinian state or march straight back to Israel. No more concessions will be made.

Don't apologize to me. Apologize to the Palestinians. Your are stating what the Arab position has been ever since 1947, and that is the reason there is no Palestinian state today, and that's just fine with people who are more interested in hating Israel than in helping the Palestinians.

 

[Kalam]

Anyone who was genuinely pro Palestinian instead of just using the Palestinians as an excuse to complain about Israel would blame him. Both Israel and the Palestinians claim the land in question. The way to settle the issue is to negotiate a final settlement instead of insisting Israel surrender its claim before negotiations can begin. Refusing to negotiate has been a losing strategy for the Arabs and Palestinians since 1947 and it should surprise no one it continues to be a losing strategy. This makes it hard to believe those who support Abbas' refusal to negotiate without a freeze on construction are really interested in seeing a Palestinain state.

Of course, Abbas cannot be held entirely to blame for the ridiculous position the Palestinians have taken on restarting negotiations. He obviously was misled by Obama into believing the US would forcefully back his hardline position of no talks without a freeze on construction, but now he has been left hanging by Obama and the Netanyahu government has grown stronger by standing up to Obama's hamfisted assault on US Israeli relations.

Sorry. The Israelis are already in the West Bank illegally. The entire WB would need to be part of a Palestinian state; no negotiating. The loons who settled there could either live in the Palestinian state or march straight back to Israel. No more concessions will be made.

Don't apologize to me. Apologize to the Palestinians. Your are stating what the Arab position has been ever since 1947, and that is the reason there is no Palestinian state today, and that's just fine with people who are more interested in hating Israel than in helping the Palestinians.

I don't think it would be appropriate to apologize to Palestinians for defending their right to what little land they have left. Asking that the West Bank and the Gaza strip be formed into a Palestinian state is not asking too much of Israel, particularly since a return to the 1947 borders is what should occur if a two-state solution is to be pursued. Squatters in the West Bank have no right to the land they've stolen, and until the Israeli government moves to dismantle their settlements and ends its oppression of the Palestinian people, Israeli military and government installations will continue to be legitimate targets for attack and the situation will only grow worse. I'm not toeing the Arab line; I'm asserting the rights of the Palestinian people.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Sorry. The Israelis are already in the West Bank illegally. The entire WB would need to be part of a Palestinian state; no negotiating. The loons who settled there could either live in the Palestinian state or march straight back to Israel. No more concessions will be made.

Don't apologize to me. Apologize to the Palestinians. Your are stating what the Arab position has been ever since 1947, and that is the reason there is no Palestinian state today, and that's just fine with people who are more interested in hating Israel than in helping the Palestinians.

I don't think it would be appropriate to apologize to Palestinians for defending their right to what little land they have left. Asking that the West Bank and the Gaza strip be formed into a Palestinian state is not asking too much of Israel, particularly since a return to the 1947 borders is what should occur if a two-state solution is to be pursued. Squatters in the West Bank have no right to the land they've stolen, and until the Israeli government moves to dismantle their settlements and ends its oppression of the Palestinian people, Israeli military and government installations will continue to be legitimate targets for attack and the situation will only grow worse. I'm not toeing the Arab line; I'm asserting the rights of the Palestinian people.

What you are asserting is your hatred of Israel and your utter lack of concern for the welfare of the Palestinian people, which seems to be a common attitude among Arabs. Since 1947, people pretending to defend the best interests of the Palestinians have prevented them from having a state by assuming uncompromising positions as you are doing. Land rights will be decided in negotiations so refusing to negotiate until land rights are defined precludes the possibility of a Palestinian state being formed on any land.

 

[The Rabbi]

Don't apologize to me. Apologize to the Palestinians. Your are stating what the Arab position has been ever since 1947, and that is the reason there is no Palestinian state today, and that's just fine with people who are more interested in hating Israel than in helping the Palestinians.

I don't think it would be appropriate to apologize to Palestinians for defending their right to what little land they have left. Asking that the West Bank and the Gaza strip be formed into a Palestinian state is not asking too much of Israel, particularly since a return to the 1947 borders is what should occur if a two-state solution is to be pursued. Squatters in the West Bank have no right to the land they've stolen, and until the Israeli government moves to dismantle their settlements and ends its oppression of the Palestinian people, Israeli military and government installations will continue to be legitimate targets for attack and the situation will only grow worse. I'm not toeing the Arab line; I'm asserting the rights of the Palestinian people.

What you are asserting is your hatred of Israel and your utter lack of concern for the welfare of the Palestinian people, which seems to be a common attitude among Arabs. Since 1947, people pretending to defend the best interests of the Palestinians have prevented them from having a state by assuming uncompromising positions as you are doing. Land rights will be decided in negotiations so refusing to negotiate until land rights are defined precludes the possibility of a Palestinian state being formed on any land.

Good. Spot on.
And the Palestinians will not be satisfied with the West Bank and Gaza. In their minds the Jews occupy the whole land illegally so that is the ultimate negotiating point, negotiating Israel out of existence.
The alternative is Hamas takes over and Israel bombs the shit out of them and then expels them to Jordan, where they belong. And that's probably what needs to happen.

 

[Si modo]

I don't think it would be appropriate to apologize to Palestinians for defending their right to what little land they have left. Asking that the West Bank and the Gaza strip be formed into a Palestinian state is not asking too much of Israel, particularly since a return to the 1947 borders is what should occur if a two-state solution is to be pursued. Squatters in the West Bank have no right to the land they've stolen, and until the Israeli government moves to dismantle their settlements and ends its oppression of the Palestinian people, Israeli military and government installations will continue to be legitimate targets for attack and the situation will only grow worse. I'm not toeing the Arab line; I'm asserting the rights of the Palestinian people.

What you are asserting is your hatred of Israel and your utter lack of concern for the welfare of the Palestinian people, which seems to be a common attitude among Arabs. Since 1947, people pretending to defend the best interests of the Palestinians have prevented them from having a state by assuming uncompromising positions as you are doing. Land rights will be decided in negotiations so refusing to negotiate until land rights are defined precludes the possibility of a Palestinian state being formed on any land.

Good. Spot on.
And the Palestinians will not be satisfied with the West Bank and Gaza. In their minds the Jews occupy the whole land illegally so that is the ultimate negotiating point, negotiating Israel out of existence.
The alternative is Hamas takes over and Israel bombs the shit out of them and then expels them to Jordan, where they belong. And that's probably what needs to happen.

Jordan doesn't want them.

 

[Varth Dader]

How will anyone be able to tell the difference? The PA cannot control anything. That someone somewhere thought they could be a legitimate negotiating partner is testament to the willful blindness on the part of the west, Bill Clinton in particular.

Maybe they'll all just get up and leave and go to the other Arab countries now and give Israel back its land?

Eh, I can dream, can't I?

They've been living with 30% unemployment for decades already. So I don't see that happening.
If there were a receivership for failed states the PA would qualify.

Of course there would have to first be a state, but let's not bother about that minor detail.

 

[The Rabbi]

What you are asserting is your hatred of Israel and your utter lack of concern for the welfare of the Palestinian people, which seems to be a common attitude among Arabs. Since 1947, people pretending to defend the best interests of the Palestinians have prevented them from having a state by assuming uncompromising positions as you are doing. Land rights will be decided in negotiations so refusing to negotiate until land rights are defined precludes the possibility of a Palestinian state being formed on any land.

Good. Spot on.
And the Palestinians will not be satisfied with the West Bank and Gaza. In their minds the Jews occupy the whole land illegally so that is the ultimate negotiating point, negotiating Israel out of existence.
The alternative is Hamas takes over and Israel bombs the shit out of them and then expels them to Jordan, where they belong. And that's probably what needs to happen.

Jordan doesn't want them.

And Israel does?
No one wants these jokers. They are like New Orleans Katrina refugees but worse and more numerous.

 

[Varth Dader]

And Israel does?
No one wants these jokers. They are like New Orleans Katrina refugees but worse and more numerous.

This reminds me of some time, 60 years ago, when other countries refused entry to Jewish Refugees...

http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft Word - 3212.pdf

 

[GHook93]

The Zionists are undermining the viability of any future Palestinian state through their continued land-thievery in the West Bank. Abbas has given up hope... at this point, who can blame him?

And missile attacks and suicide bombers does not undermine peace? If 100s of daily missile attacks weren't fired at Israel, if Hamas stated they would talk peace if Israel would, then the Hawkish Bibi wouldn't have been elected and negotiations would have pressed forward!

 

[GHook93]

Sorry. The Israelis are already in the West Bank illegally. The entire WB would need to be part of a Palestinian state; no negotiating. The loons who settled there could either live in the Palestinian state or march straight back to Israel. No more concessions will be made.

I agree with that! The settlers and the settlements do not need to be evacuated, but rather the setters will become Jewish Palestinians and part of the Palestinian state! I see nothing wrong with that!

Just as Palestinian settlers sit in Israel along the border.

HOWEVER, if the Jewish settlers get forced out, so should the Palestinian ones!

 

[The Rabbi]

And Israel does?
No one wants these jokers. They are like New Orleans Katrina refugees but worse and more numerous.

This reminds me of some time, 60 years ago, when other countries refused entry to Jewish Refugees...

http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft Word - 3212.pdf

So you are comparing other Middle Eastern countries to bigoted nations like Switzerland, Australia, and the US?
OK by me.
Of course the Jews only wanted to be left alone. They weren't committing crimes and actually benefitted society with their many contributions.
The Palestinians actively tear down wherever they are living.