Palestinian Authority seeks ICC war crimes case against Israel

[docmauser1]

Palestine was Recognized by the UN as a non-member State like Switzerland and the Vatican and has rights to the ICC, but you knew that, keep dancing!

Our honorable P F Tinmore would ask on the occasion "If it's a state, where're its borders?"

 

[Phoenall]

Round up the War Criminals...
Palestinian Authority seeks ICC war crimes case against Israel


THE HAGUE (Reuters) - Palestinian Foreign Minister Riad al-Malki said there was "clear evidence" of war crimes by Israel during its offensive in Gaza as he met International Criminal Court prosecutors on Tuesday to push for an investigation.

Malki visited The Hague shortly after Israel and the Palestinian Islamist Hamas movement that dominates Gaza entered a 72-hour truce mediated by Egypt in an effort to secure an extended ceasefire.

Last week, the United Nations launched an inquiry into human rights violations and crimes alleged to have been committed by Israel during its offensive, given the far higher toll of civilian deaths and destruction on the Palestinian side.

After the many infringements by hamas that have been caught on camera, along with the testimony of journalists it would be a bad move for the Palestinians. After the UN have condemned the attacks on Israel and been dragged into fronting for hamas LIES they will fail as the UN can mot be dragged through the ICC. When the courts are shown the evidence of hamas forcing women and children to be human shields, and the faked footage of alleged bombing of a school they will turn the tables on the Palestinians are charge them with war crimes, crimes against humanity and perjury.

 

[Phoenall]

Yep. About time.

But Israel has more 'technicalities' than OJ Simpson.

And you can bet if found guilty the US will veto any punishment or enforcement of findings.
The real question is, "How far will the US go in becoming an (obvious) war criminal itself, in protection of its Middle Eastern attack dog?"

But it a welcome step in the right direction.

The US cant veto the sentence of the ICC, but if you look at the evidence you will see that fatah are behind this knowing that it will backfire and result in hamas being the ones facing charges. This will leave it wide open for fatah to take full control of gaza and remove the hamas underlings permanently.

The real question is how far has the P.A. distanced itself from gaza in the last 3 weeks, and will it emerge as the shining star ?

 

[mudwhistle]

In the name of whom they'll sue? the Palestinian government is currently Hamas, and if "Palestine" will go against Israel in Hamas' behalf it will create a very ironic situation.

Not to mention, the authorities now say we (southerner Israelis) have the ability to sue Hamas back for damages and loses.

Can't wait to see where this is going.

Why don't you do an Abbot and Costello skit of Whose on first and Whats on second and trample the facts?

Eh?!

It's an old joke.

You say really fast "ass sphincter says what", and they say, "what?"

Whomever says what is a sphincter, or an asshole.....

 

[Phoenall]

Rocco, you polite Nazi you,

As the aggressor, Israel has no right to self defence.
As the defender and resister, Gaza DOES.

Hamas may not be the nicest club in the world, but it is an ARMED RESISTANCE MOVEMENT, which comes out of the population, so of course has support within it.

Hamas did try to go the democratic route, but with an Israeli / US embargo on any dealings with them since they won the election, coupled by the Israeli sponsored attempted coup there by Fatah, they were forced onto a war footing, then a siege footing.

Hamas, may still be guilty of war crimes.

THAT MAKES NO GODDAMN DIFFERENCE TO ISRAEL COMMITTING WAR CRIMES.
This is not a situation where you can say "Well the other boys were being bad tooo",

Suck it up and face your crimes.

Over 200 rockets and mortars fired by hams into Israel in the months preceding the invasion on July 4th is hardly a defensive move by hamas. You cant claim that they were retaliations to Israeli attacks as many were many days after Israeli retaliations to the rockets. Look at the list dildo provided and you will see that Israel responded to hamas rockets within 12 hours, then no fire from hamas for 2 or 3 days. Don't forget the evidence of hamas using human shields that is a war crime, and any deaths of civilians in this situation is another war crime by hamas. Try reading the Geneva conventions and see just what war crimes hamas has committed, and how many times it has committed perjury in respect to civilian deaths. Just one example is the UN school allegedly targeted by the IDF that the UN now know is a hamas LIE. An enquiry will show that hamas has LIED repeatedly about the deaths and the majority are terrorists, militia, hamas leaders and human shields

 

[Phoenall]

[MENTION=48863]Beelzebub[/MENTION], et al,

I was just viewing a Posting by our friend [MENTION=33194]PredFan[/MENTION] (Post #2 to the "Media cover-up of Hamas crimes starting to unravel") in which we see open evidence of Rocket Firing by HAMAS in a densely populated area:

Damning Video: Indian TV Appears to Catch Hamas Red-Handed Outside Its Hotel​

Yep. About time.

But Israel has more 'technicalities' than OJ Simpson.

And you can bet if found guilty the US will veto any punishment or enforcement of findings.
The real question is, "How far will the US go in becoming an (obvious) war criminal itself, in protection of its Middle Eastern attack dog?"

But it a welcome step in the right direction.

(COMMENT)

Now the important thing to note is that the Gazian Population knows all about it. They even warn the News Reporter not to go near the site because it is subject to IDF fire. It leads one to believe that the general population is actively supporting the HAMAS to use such places.

This is an open violation of Rule 97: The use of human shields is prohibited, caught in video. Hopefully there will be more such evidence emerge as time elapses.

The IDF doesn't need to use 'technicalities'.

Most Respectfully,
R

Add in the growing UN complicity scandal and you have quite a stew brewing. The Pals and UNRWA may need some technicalities.

I can see the UN security council and the UN general council disbanding the UNRWA when this latest fiasco is over. This will mean the end of the Palestinian refugee crisis once and for all, and the arab nations will be forced to take the problem on board

 

[Phoenall]

RoccoR is one of the most informative, civilized and gentle posters on this board.

Many of the pro-Israeli and Pro-Palestinian posters around here, at many times, were left dumbfounded when crossed with his well based, clean from incitements, sources.

You stating he's a nazi is rude and offending, and shows you have very little idea about who to pounce and who to listen to.

Don't make fun of yourself any longer and apologize to him while you're at it.

Politely supporting fascism is still supporting fascism.
Are flames allowed here or not?

The only person supporting fascism here is you, and you are too pig headed to realise it.

 

[Phoenall]

pbel, et al,

This will be interesting.

Round up the War Criminals...
Palestinian Authority seeks ICC war crimes case against Israel

THE HAGUE (Reuters) - Palestinian Foreign Minister Riad al-Malki said there was "clear evidence" of war crimes by Israel during its offensive in Gaza as he met International Criminal Court prosecutors on Tuesday to push for an investigation.

Malki visited The Hague shortly after Israel and the Palestinian Islamist Hamas movement that dominates Gaza entered a 72-hour truce mediated by Egypt in an effort to secure an extended ceasefire.

Last week, the United Nations launched an inquiry into human rights violations and crimes alleged to have been committed by Israel during its offensive, given the far higher toll of civilian deaths and destruction on the Palestinian side.

(COMMENT)

It will be interesting to see what the ICC says in terms of "jurisdiction" and "effective control."

Is "Palestine" really a "state?" If it is --- who has control of the state?

Yes this will be interesting.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco you're dancing around the truth again...Palestine was Recognized by the UN as a non-member State like Switzerland and the Vatican and has rights to the ICC, but you knew that, keep dancing!

Deflecting and derailing again because you don't like the answer. This has nothing to do with recognition and all to do with who is in de facto control of gaza at the time of the war crimes. This leads to an awkward question of which faction will admit to being the elected ruler at the time of the war crimes and crimes against humanity that WILL be brought against the P.A. if they go ahead with their stupid actions. This will settle the argument once and for all and will be entered into CUSTOMARY INTERNATIONAL LAW whether Palestine is a bona fide state or if it is just a political entity with no land and borders.

 

[Phoenall]

They wouldn't want to get into that game....This is a two way street.

Agreed. Israeli and Hamas are Criminal for their actions leading to this travesty of Justice...

I don't like the policy of our government, but I must say, "Palestine", meaning HAMAS, a recognized terror organization, suing a state is kind of rediculous.

The "crime" committed towards the people of Gaza is "direct" "result" of the current Israeli policies, which were pretty much ignoring the Hamas' war crimes against civilians in southern Israel.

We're the transparent people no-one bothers to talk about.

I wonder why that is.

I 2wonder if you will be able to sue your own government for their breaches of your human rights in not protecting you from Palestinian terrorist violence, and for the damage done to property

 

[Phoenall]

A result of Israel's failed propaganda effort.

But, Hamas and their constituency are calling the kettle black a little here.

I would say the whole damn culinary set is calling the kettle black a lot

 

[Phoenall]

All nations threaten each other on the basis of just being there. So attacking just because they are threatened would be a breach of what is permitted.

Hamas has never been a credible threat to Israel. They at best have an ability to make Israel hurt when it attacks. If Israel was about defence it would not have caused the escalation over the false pretext of the murdered hitchhikers.

Israel has also been casually killing civilian Palestinians every month, probably every week and sometimes daily for a decade or more. To claim that Hamas is the aggressor is to fly in the face of reality.

As to attacking "because of the tunnels" Israel has confessed it barely knew about the tunnel system, so that is about as credible as US excuses for invading Iraq after they had to admit the claim about WMD's was false.

Finally, there is a test of both proportionality and of due care.
Israel was not only massively disproportional in its attacks, but was at the very least careless in its targeting and used inappropriate weapons for shooting at a civilian population.

You can test this by asking: "If there were cells of terrorists operating out of Jewish areas, would the IDF have used the same tactics, weaponry, and had the same proportion of civilian deaths?"

So its a slam dunk. Israel was either careless of civilian lives, property and utilities, or purposely destroyed them.

All that is aside from the groups of captured civilians or militants that the IDF rounded up and murdered as prisoners in closed off rooms.

Remember that hamas fired over 200 rockets and mortars into Israel in the months preceding the kidnap of the 3 Israeli boys. It is of no consequence whether hamas is a threat or not they still engaged in war and were in breach of the Geneva conventions by using illegal chemical/biological agents in the warheads of the rockets. Under the terms of the Geneva conventions Israel is within its rights to respond with whatever force it deems is necessary to bring a halt to the terrorist attacks. There is no proportionality clause in the articles of war as there is always one side that is better armed and with more tropps than the other.
The IDF gave plenty of warnings about its intended targets so any civilians killed were there at their own free will and acting as human shields, under the GENEVA CONVENTIONS this lakes them valid military targets and the responsibility of hamas . You have had this explained to you time and time again, with links to the relevant articles of International law and still you insist on placing the blame on Israel because you don't want laws to be for all parties.

 

[Phoenall]

RoccoR is one of the most informative, civilized and gentle posters on this board.

Many of the pro-Israeli and Pro-Palestinian posters around here, at many times, were left dumbfounded when crossed with his well based, clean from incitements, sources.

You stating he's a nazi is rude and offending, and shows you have very little idea about who to pounce and who to listen to.

Don't make fun of yourself any longer and apologize to him while you're at it.

He's a Rude Crude Asshole. Hamas is the Agressor ! Rockets have been increasing since 2005 and since Hamas took over it has increased dramatically . All the Money they were given for Schools and Hospitals went instead to Underground Tunnels .

No he is not!
He has his faults but as Lipush says, he is very polite.

I am not sure of his religion, but you should still not use it as a pejorative.
Shame on you PV!

He was referring to you sunshine as being rude and crude and an asshole

 

[Phoenall]

RoccoR is one of the most informative, civilized and gentle posters on this board.

Many of the pro-Israeli and Pro-Palestinian posters around here, at many times, were left dumbfounded when crossed with his well based, clean from incitements, sources.

You stating he's a nazi is rude and offending, and shows you have very little idea about who to pounce and who to listen to.

Don't make fun of yourself any longer and apologize to him while you're at it.

Oh shut-up!

He try's to put lipstick on a pig by defending Israeli aggression and crimes against humanity.

It's like saying, "Hitler was a victim of bad PR!"

You can of course produce the evidence of Israel's court cases on charges of crimes against humanity. Or is this another of your fantasy LIES ?...........

 

[Beelzebub]

Yes, but his phrasing missed the target.

You have to laugh.

 

[Phoenall]

Israel bombs first and then weeps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keS-LDl_ewA

Spot on, including the reminder that Israel created Hamas to divide Palestine.

Just the same as the US then in that respect, but in this incident the civilians were given 4 days notice of Israels intent and stayed to act as human shields. The Geneva conventions exonerates Israel of all blame and puts it firmly on the shoulders of hamas.

 

[Phoenall]

In any event, the Resistance Movement is the aggressor once its activities threaten beyond its borders.

Are you still pimping that propaganda?

You know there is no border around Gaza.

According to the peace treaty signed with Egypt there is. Still waiting for you to produce the evidence of the Palestinians signing a treaty giving them a nation and borders.

 

[RoccoR]

[MENTION=25338]docmauser1[/MENTION], [MENTION=35713]pbel[/MENTION], et al,

Many people make this argument; but it is by no means a "slam - dunk" conclusion. From a legal perspective, there is more to being a "state" than the layman generally considers; but the ICC, being a court, must consider.

Palestine was Recognized by the UN as a non-member State like Switzerland and the Vatican and has rights to the ICC, but you knew that, keep dancing!

Our honorable P F Tinmore would ask on the occasion "If it's a state, where're its borders?"

(COMMENT)

There are many questions that must be answered, the first of which is: Can the State of Palestine (such that it is) even accept the Jurisdiction of the Court?

• Is the territory of Palestine defined?
  • Well, if you follow the finding of the International Court of Justice, during the deliberations on the Wall (Advisory Opinion), you might come to the conclusion that the territory (borders of Palestine) is undefined.

• Even if it were to be accepted that the boundaries for the State of Palestine are fixed (which the ICC theoretically cannot do) can the State of Palestine accept and delegate to the ICC, jurisdiction over the Israeli Settlements.
  • Many would argue that the Oslo Accords give the Jewish State of Israel exclusive criminal jurisdiction over Israelis in the West Bank. The question becomes: Can the State of Palestine accept ICC territorial jurisdiction over the Israeli territory covered by the Oslo Accords, jurisdiction that Palestine does not hold now? (ie You cannot delegate authority you don't have.)

The entire argument that [MENTION=21837]P F Tinmore[/MENTION] makes on boundaries and borders comes into play, just to establish Jurisdiction; and which states (Israel and Palestine) qualify as an ICC state party. The Area "C" portion of the West Bank is under the jurisdiction of the Oslo Accords (binding).

Then, comes the two related issues of "leadership/Head of State" and "effective control." In the matter of "leadership/Head of State" there is confusion among the Palestinians. Does Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh have the authority as "Head of State" representing HAMAS, or does Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, also Chairman of the Palestinian Authority really hold the position of "leadership/Head of State?"

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has two things going for him:

• Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is recognized by the UN as President of the State of Palestine.
• And as Chairman of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, he is recognized by the Arab League as the "sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated."

Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh became Prime Minister after HAMAS won the Palestinian legislative elections of 2006. It appears that HE has effective control over Gaza.

Having said that, both the Palestinian Authority (Mahmoud Abbas) and HAMAS (Ismail Haniyeh) claim to be under occupation by Israel, which they claim, among other things, that is preventing the Palestinian in their "right of self-determination." The question becomes:

If Israel hold the "right of self-determination" at bey, do either of the Palestinian principles (HAMAS or the PA) actually have effective control of the State of Palestine?

• If not, then which of the Palestinians Principles have "effective control?"
• How do you legally test for "effective control?"

Can the Palestinian Authority (Mahmoud Abbas) order HAMAS (Ismail Haniyeh) to accept an unconditional cease-fire; and be obeyed? If not, does that have an impact on the question of "effective control?"

These are just a couple of things that effect the ICC Prosecutor must consider.

Finally, can HAMAS and PIJ Representatives, as EU designated terrorist Organizations, and Palestinian Authority (Mahmoud Abbas) all sign on behalf of Palestine, the petition before the court. What impact will that have, the Court becoming the prosecutor on behalf of EU and US designated terrorist organizations?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[SAYIT]

Agreed. Israeli and Hamas are Criminal for their actions leading to this travesty of Justice...

I don't like the policy of our government, but I must say, "Palestine", meaning HAMAS, a recognized terror organization, suing a state is kind of rediculous.

The "crime" committed towards the people of Gaza is "direct" "result" of the current Israeli policies, which were pretty much ignoring the Hamas' war crimes against civilians in southern Israel.

We're the transparent people no-one bothers to talk about.

I wonder why that is.

I 2wonder if you will be able to sue your own government for their breaches of your human rights in not protecting you from Palestinian terrorist violence, and for the damage done to property

Israel, the US and a number of countries are not members of the ICC and cannot bring suit in that "court," nor are they bound by that "court's" findings. Like the UN Gen Ass it's just a place where international whiners can go to vent their hateful spleens.

 

[Lipush]

Why don't you do an Abbot and Costello skit of Whose on first and Whats on second and trample the facts?

Eh?!

It's an old joke.

You say really fast "ass sphincter says what", and they say, "what?"

Whomever says what is a sphincter, or an asshole.....

ohhhhh.

 

[toastman]

In any event, the Resistance Movement is the aggressor once its activities threaten beyond its borders.

Are you still pimping that propaganda?

You know there is no border around Gaza.

Why is it that to you , the truth is propaganda?