Palestine Today

[toastman]

More Israeli lies.

Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.

Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?

Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' FAILURE to attack civilians from the tunnels,
after being neutralized, with not being used for attempts to fulfill that purpose.

The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.

Well that's rich...

Since the word 'Palestinians' in itself means 'Occupiers',
that's like fish complaining about water being wet.

Utter junk that the Palestinians are occupiers. You sound like one of those crazy settler types on speed

That's literally the meaning of the 'Palestinians' = 'Occupiers'.

Is there any other meaning?
Feel free to refute that.

Spartacactcus I'm waiting...
But I won't hold my breath.

In the meantime, maybe you can also explain how come those who claim 'Palestine' is theirs,
can't even pronounce the word, let alone know its meaning?

You're waiting for what? For me to agree that the Palestinians are "occupiers "of their own territory ? lol Ain't gonna happen.

I am not trying to avoid you, I am just working my way through Roccos long winded reply from earlier.

Asked for a simple thing -
the proof that 'Palestinian' had any other meaning other than 'Occupier'.

If you can't simply say so,
instead of dancing around show at least some integrity.

Who is occupying, oppressing and cleansing whom? Israel is an apartheid state engaged in ethnic cleansing. A savage rogue authoritarian state.

Apartheid ? LOL !!! You clearly know nothing about Israel and have never been there. You just follow the morons that like to use words they know nothing about.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The right to self determination belongs to the people of the place not the people from someplace else.

The French have the right to self determination in France. The British do not.

Why do the French have the right to self determination in France? What gives them that right?

They are the people of the place.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ Spartacactcus, et al,

No, that would be 100% wrong.

Rocco, the IHL references you cited refer to non combatants only.

(COMMENT)

You have to be careful to read the coverage.

◈ Solely intended to harm the Occupying Power,​

◈ Attempt on the life or limb of members of the:​

✦ Occupying Forces​

✦ Occupying administration​

✦ Nor seriously damage the property of the Occupying Forces or Administration or the installations used by them​

The IHL does not distinguish combatant and non-combatant. This distinction is not made in Article 68. I challenge you to read it carefully.

I know that the Arab Palestinians have been telling themselves, for so long, that civil disorder and armed struggle are legal. But that is completely wrong.
• [(1) p.343] See ' Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949, ' Vol. II-A, pp. 765-768;

The minor offenses must have been "solely" intended to harm the Occupying Power. The inclusion of the word "solely" excludes acts that harm the Occupying Power indirectly.

Also remember that 90% of the pictures displayed in this thread display NOT Occupying Forces, but Civil Police Authorities.


Most Respectfully,
R

Also remember that 90% of the pictures displayed in this thread display NOT Occupying Forces, but Civil Police Authorities.

Same shit different platter. "Civil police" take Palestinians to military kangaroo courts.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

• Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel •

Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.

The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.

(COMMENT)

This argument (used for legitimate defense) might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.

• In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
• Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
• Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.

View attachment 315951
Most Respectfully,
R

Never attacked civilians.

Just like I said and Israel lied about.

Hamas never attacked civilians ? You on drugs ??

Did you OD on doofus pills?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Exclusive: Rare interview with slain Palestinian medic Razan al-Najjar

Wow. An interview with a dead person. Pallywood is really dialing it up a notch!

Are you saying the interview is fake ? No , that would be a foolish mistake because I recall seeing those interview clips appearing around the time of her murder by IDF snipers.

So how is it " Palliwood " ? Which is a derogatory , imo , racial supremacist , term often used to slur any Palestinian film footage.

How it it "Palliwood " ?

Yes, what's claimed in the video is fake.
There's nothing racist about exposing the blatant staged lies famously known as 'Pallywood".

The claim was " wow. interviewing a dead person ". I read that as there was something fake about the interview with Rouzan al-Najjar when there clearly wasn't. The interview was taken before she died , so the charge that they interviewed a " dead person " is evidently rubbish.

Like Israelis can complain about fake news lol Virtually everytime something happens we find lies and BS coming from the Israeli side. Recall what they said in 1967 ? That they had been attacked first ? Well , it's carried on since then and was the case before hand. Recall who the Qibya massacre was blamed on ?

The truth is always the fiirst casualty of war and on that score all parties engage in misinformation / disinformation. That you try to make it out as Palestinian issue is expected but rejected as partisan hackery

You can blubber away all you want.

The video claimed she was intentionally killed,
but its been years and still no proof of a direct shot, or even being targeted.

Stupid post of the day!

She was wearing a white medic coat and was shot in the chest by Israeli snipers who have shot groups the size of a nickel. And you claim that she was not targeted.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Gaza riot!

The Hamas chief says you're full of sh*t,
and thanks you for being an exemplary useful idiot -

No doubt that he would be bitter, Israel killed his son when Israel bombed his family home.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ Spartacactcus, et al,

[W]hy does the violation of sovereignty, and the very question of sovereignty, only seem to bother you when it involves Israeli territory ? Israel is a serial violator of Syrian and Lebanese air space. It controls Gazan airspace and coastal waters and regularly violates Gazan sovereign territory to kill its people.

(COMMENT)

As far as Syria and Lebanon go, the 1948 Israeli War for Independence was never concluded. No Peace Treaty was ever signed between either Israel and Syria. And, the two Armistice Agreements are modified and uneasy.

The situation between Israel and the likes of Lebanon and Syria are much more complicated than this one response will allow.

In the WB it actually full on occupies and illegally settles the territory of another state and steadfastly denies the entire Palestinian people their own self determination in a sovereign state.

(COMMENT)

Israel does not deny the Arab Palestinians their "Right to Self-Determination." It is actually the reverse. It is the Arabs of the disputed territories (the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip) that have denied the Jewish People their "Right to Self-Determination" and the integrity of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel.

Israel recognizes that "all people," including the Arab Palestinians, have the "Right of Self-Determination." The Israeli's oppose the authority of the method about which the Arab Palestinians attempt to achieve "Self-Determination." The implementation of a right by one peoples (Arab Palestinians) cannot legitimately encroach on the right of other peoples (Israelis). IF as you claim, the WB it actually full on occupies" the West Bank (etc), THEN you must recognize the Common and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) that is applicable to that condition. You must recognize the Geneva Conventions as in play. And IF we agree that far, THEN we must agree that Article 68, Geneva Convention IV ( Penal legislation. V. Penalties ) applies. The salient points of Article 68 substantially state as follows:

Protected persons (that being the Arab Palestinians) who:

(ONE)

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (that being the Israelis), commit an offense which is solely intended to harm members of the occupying forces or other members of the Occupying Power,​

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power administration,​

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the property of the occupying forces,​

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the property of the administration of the Occupying Power,​

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the installations used by either the occupying forces or the administration of the Occupying Power,​

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to pose a collective danger to the members of the occupying forces or other members of the Occupying Power,​

→ shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed.

(TWO)

"The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 [ Link ] and 65 [ Link ] may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offenses were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began."​

So, let's talk about the general behaviors of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza Strip, relative to Article 68.

It has also violated Syrian territory since 1967 with an illegal annexation and illegal settlements of the Golan.

Yet here you are bemoaning a legitimate act of resistance ( Shalit ) for a single violation of sovereignty whilsy being silent of the mountainous violations of sovereignty committed by the state of Israel and it's forces.

(COMMENT)

As I said, the 1948 War of Independence, as far as Syria is concerned, is yet to be the subject of a permanent peace arrangement.

One thing is for sure, one needs only look at the history of Syria and its governance since 1948 (comparing it to Israel) and in the blink-of-an-eye which citizenry is better-off; Israelis 'vs' Syrians.

The Israelis rank 22d on the Human Development Index (HDI); higher than any country in the Arab League or the Middle East North African Region. On the other hand, under Syrian rule, the country ranks 154th. I'm not that the people of the Golan Heights would want to go backward in terms of life expectancy, education, and per capita income. But once Syria stabilizes, I don't think that the Knesset would refuse to consider a petition for cessation by the Arab of the Golan Heights. I do know that the Israeli Defense Force would never use mustard gas, chlorine, and possibly lewisite on its citizens like the Syrians have in the past.

You appear to be a reasonable person so I can only assume that your not seeing the hypocrisy in your view as being down to the superior propaganda of the Israeli/Wests side

(COMMENT)

OH no. In fact, since the turn of the century, I think that the superior performance of Arab Palestinian propaganda effort has had quite favorable results in the international community. But in the end, I don't see that having a significant impact on the outcome. Since the establishment of the Civil Administration in 1920 over the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied, the Arab Palestinians have been persistently avoiding, or rejected outright, the participation in the establishment of institutions through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government or otherwise help establish systems by which self-governing institutions could be founded. We will never know how much better off they would be if they would have cooperated just once in the spirit of a new potential government.

(OFF BOOK)

Am I say or even implying that the actions of the Jewish National Home and State of Israel have been without flaws or questionable activity? (RHETORICAL) Hell no! But if the Israelis have blood on their hands, the Arab Palestinians need to be run through the car wash (maybe a couple of times); as opposed to a wash at the sink.




Most Respectfully,
R

Israel does not deny the Arab Palestinians their "Right to Self-Determination." It is actually the reverse. It is the Arabs of the disputed territories (the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip) that have denied the Jewish People their "Right to Self-Determination" and the integrity of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel.

More bullshit out of Israel. There is no "disputed" territory. It is Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF:

In February both Britain and Transjordan pinned their hopes for a satisfactory resolution to the Palestine problem on Glubb and the Arab Legion occupying central Palestine with the tacit acquiescence of the Zionists. It was not expected, however, that the end of the mandate would descend into a full-blown war involving the regular armies of the neighbouring Arab states. Not until the final week of the mandate did this become certain, and at midnight on 14/15 May, when the British mandate ended, the Arab Legion marched across the Allenby Bridge as part of the invading Arab coalition, ostensibly to prevent the creation of a Jewish state and to facilitate the creation of an independent Arab Palestine. 1 Yet when the war came to an effective end in 1949 with the signing of a series of bilateral armistice agreements between Israel and the Arab states, the Greater Transjordan objective had largely reached fruition [ Map 5 ]. The Arab Legion controlled the bulk of central Palestine allotted to the Arabs under the UN partition resolution. Thus, two states – two apparent enemies – emerged from the war territorially victorious.

SOURCE: Page 89 • Glubb Pasha and the Arab Legion -​

Britain, Jordan, and the End of Empire in the Middle East​

​

NOTE: Glubb Pasha = Lieutenant-General Sir John Glubb, Commanding the Arab Legion (Jordanian Army)

View attachment 316667​

The bottom line is that none of those Arab armies attacked Israel. Glub Pasha called the 1948 war the war that wasn't.

(COMMENT)

Like I said before, the parameters of a "war" are undefine; both politically and militarily. It is not an exact term. When LTG Glubb says "war," he may be making a comparison to the Great War, or WWII. So you actually make no point here with LTG Glubb comment. In Glubb's mind, how big does an Armed Engagement have to be to qualify as a war? (RHETORICAL) We simply don't know.

Whether you want to call it a "war" or not - is up to you (quibble over the term). What we do know is that armed Arab Forces engaged Israel armed forces. When 7.62mm is whistling over your head, you don't stop and think about what war means.

One more thing, the decisive victory relating to the 1948 War of Independence for the Israels was not reached until the 1973 Yom Kipper War concluded.

Most Respectfully,
R

One more thing, the decisive victory relating to the 1948 War of Independence

I always laugh at this term. Independent from what?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ Shusha, Spartacactcus, et al,
(COMMENT)

As I see it, the Arab League Forces from neighboring Arab States entered Article 77 Trust Territory using the excuse that it was necessary to assist the (unarmed) Arab Palestinians from being attacked by Jewish irregular asymmetric forces. The neighboring Arab States, using force, entered the territory to protect the Arab Palestinians. The Arab League Forces claimed that they engaged Jewish terrorist gangs trained in Europe → intending to impose the will of the newly established Israeli Government upon an unwilling Arab Palestinian population. However, a hidden agenda soon appeared when some of the neighboring Arab States took effective control over large areas of the Trust Territory and later either annexed them (as in the West Bank) or placed them under a Military Governorship (as in the Gaza Strip). The outcome looked as if the actual intent of the coordinated attack was to use the chaos of the conflict to seize as much territory as possible (if not all) with the latent operational purpose of extending their sovereign control. In some areas, the Arab League Forces made gains (West Bank and Gaza Strip) while in other areas no significant gains (Lebanese and Syrian border areas).

As might have been expected, the pro-Israel and pro-Arab Palestinians perspectives emerged; each side adopting the stance that you were either for us or against us position. The Arab Palestinians were dominated by the Arab League and had reject overtures to (once again) establish their own Arab State. And consequently, absorb under a foreign Arab rule. By the same token, the Jewish Agency accepted what they could and on 11 May 1949, Israel's efforts under self-determination came to fruition and Israel became a Member of the United Nations.



Most Respectfully,
R

The bottom line is that none of those Arab armies attacked Israel. Glub Pasha called the 1948 war the war that wasn't.

Lebanon had virtually no army. Maybe a few thousand troops. They could barely defend their own border. That was the international border between Lebanon and Palestine. So even if they did cross the border, they crossed into Palestine not Israel.

Syria was a little stronger. They did manage to cross the international border between Syria and Palestine for a brief period then moved back into Syria. Here again, they entered Palestine not Israel.

Jordan was a different case. They believed in the partition plan. The Zionists promised to give Jordan the Arab part of the territory (The West Bank) and $3,000,000 a year for five years if they did not attack Israeli troops. Here again, they entered Palestine not Israel.

Egypt crossed the international border between Egypt and Palestine. They fought Israeli forces in Palestine. Here again, they did not enter Israel. They did, however, prevent Israeli forces from Occupying the Gaza Strip.

All this for the UN to divide Palestine into three areas of occupation in 1949 with armistice lines that were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.

Nah...
your whole premise is based solely on a false association.
Only problem is, that whole balloon instantly blows up once asked
for any legal definition of Palestine without reference to the Jewish Nation.

P.S.: While were're there, was Palestine ever legally defined with any Arab sovereignty?

And now you start the usual duck dance...

Indeed, the UN mentions it regularly.

 

[rylah]

Exclusive: Rare interview with slain Palestinian medic Razan al-Najjar

Wow. An interview with a dead person. Pallywood is really dialing it up a notch!

Are you saying the interview is fake ? No , that would be a foolish mistake because I recall seeing those interview clips appearing around the time of her murder by IDF snipers.

So how is it " Palliwood " ? Which is a derogatory , imo , racial supremacist , term often used to slur any Palestinian film footage.

How it it "Palliwood " ?

Yes, what's claimed in the video is fake.
There's nothing racist about exposing the blatant staged lies famously known as 'Pallywood".

The claim was " wow. interviewing a dead person ". I read that as there was something fake about the interview with Rouzan al-Najjar when there clearly wasn't. The interview was taken before she died , so the charge that they interviewed a " dead person " is evidently rubbish.

Like Israelis can complain about fake news lol Virtually everytime something happens we find lies and BS coming from the Israeli side. Recall what they said in 1967 ? That they had been attacked first ? Well , it's carried on since then and was the case before hand. Recall who the Qibya massacre was blamed on ?

The truth is always the fiirst casualty of war and on that score all parties engage in misinformation / disinformation. That you try to make it out as Palestinian issue is expected but rejected as partisan hackery

You can blubber away all you want.

The video claimed she was intentionally killed,
but its been years and still no proof of a direct shot, or even being targeted.

Stupid post of the day!

She was wearing a white medic coat and was shot in the chest by Israeli snipers who have shot groups the size of a nickel. And you claim that she was not targeted.

That's what you keep mindlessly parroting.
Yet its been more than a year and still not a shred of evidence.

Strange isn't it?... well Pallywood

 

[rylah]

Gaza riot!

The Hamas chief says you're full of sh*t,
and thanks you for being an exemplary useful idiot -

No doubt that he would be bitter, Israel killed his son when Israel bombed his family home.

What's bitter have to do
with even Hamas chief saying you're a mindless lying parrot?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Israel declared independence as a trustee to a self-governing state.

One more thing, the decisive victory relating to the 1948 War of Independence

I always laugh at this term. Independent from what?

(COMMENT)

It was an end result of a process that the Arab Palestinian rejected. We will never know how much better-off the Arab Palestinians would be today if they had accepted and cooperated with the UN Palestine Commission in 1948.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ Shusha, Spartacactcus, et al,
(COMMENT)

As I see it, the Arab League Forces from neighboring Arab States entered Article 77 Trust Territory using the excuse that it was necessary to assist the (unarmed) Arab Palestinians from being attacked by Jewish irregular asymmetric forces. The neighboring Arab States, using force, entered the territory to protect the Arab Palestinians. The Arab League Forces claimed that they engaged Jewish terrorist gangs trained in Europe → intending to impose the will of the newly established Israeli Government upon an unwilling Arab Palestinian population. However, a hidden agenda soon appeared when some of the neighboring Arab States took effective control over large areas of the Trust Territory and later either annexed them (as in the West Bank) or placed them under a Military Governorship (as in the Gaza Strip). The outcome looked as if the actual intent of the coordinated attack was to use the chaos of the conflict to seize as much territory as possible (if not all) with the latent operational purpose of extending their sovereign control. In some areas, the Arab League Forces made gains (West Bank and Gaza Strip) while in other areas no significant gains (Lebanese and Syrian border areas).

As might have been expected, the pro-Israel and pro-Arab Palestinians perspectives emerged; each side adopting the stance that you were either for us or against us position. The Arab Palestinians were dominated by the Arab League and had reject overtures to (once again) establish their own Arab State. And consequently, absorb under a foreign Arab rule. By the same token, the Jewish Agency accepted what they could and on 11 May 1949, Israel's efforts under self-determination came to fruition and Israel became a Member of the United Nations.



Most Respectfully,
R

The bottom line is that none of those Arab armies attacked Israel. Glub Pasha called the 1948 war the war that wasn't.

Lebanon had virtually no army. Maybe a few thousand troops. They could barely defend their own border. That was the international border between Lebanon and Palestine. So even if they did cross the border, they crossed into Palestine not Israel.

Syria was a little stronger. They did manage to cross the international border between Syria and Palestine for a brief period then moved back into Syria. Here again, they entered Palestine not Israel.

Jordan was a different case. They believed in the partition plan. The Zionists promised to give Jordan the Arab part of the territory (The West Bank) and $3,000,000 a year for five years if they did not attack Israeli troops. Here again, they entered Palestine not Israel.

Egypt crossed the international border between Egypt and Palestine. They fought Israeli forces in Palestine. Here again, they did not enter Israel. They did, however, prevent Israeli forces from Occupying the Gaza Strip.

All this for the UN to divide Palestine into three areas of occupation in 1949 with armistice lines that were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.

Nah...
your whole premise is based solely on a false association.
Only problem is, that whole balloon instantly blows up once asked
for any legal definition of Palestine without reference to the Jewish Nation.

P.S.: While were're there, was Palestine ever legally defined with any Arab sovereignty?

And now you start the usual duck dance...

Indeed, the UN mentions it regularly.

And what legal authority does it have?
C'mon show us a new bluff that hasn't been already refuted a 1000 times.

Ok, I've bought the ticket,
now don't you dare duck the duck dance, we know you can do better.

 

[rylah]

Independent from what?

From the stink of the Caliphate of course!

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ Shusha, Spartacactcus, et al,

BLUF: "IT" is very appropriate.

Indeed, the UN mentions it regularly.

(COMMENT)

Yes, so it does:

But the PLO is still the "representative of the Palestinian people."

What are you IF • you don't walk like a duck, you don't quack like a duck, and you don't look like a duck? → THEN • maybe you are NOT a duck. The same is true for "Palestine."

In Ceasar's time, they would seal it with: SQPR (so says the Senate and the People of Rome). Today, we'll just have to be satisfied with: RoL (the Rule of Law).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ Spartacactcus, et al,

[W]hy does the violation of sovereignty, and the very question of sovereignty, only seem to bother you when it involves Israeli territory ? Israel is a serial violator of Syrian and Lebanese air space. It controls Gazan airspace and coastal waters and regularly violates Gazan sovereign territory to kill its people.

(COMMENT)

As far as Syria and Lebanon go, the 1948 Israeli War for Independence was never concluded. No Peace Treaty was ever signed between either Israel and Syria. And, the two Armistice Agreements are modified and uneasy.

The situation between Israel and the likes of Lebanon and Syria are much more complicated than this one response will allow.

In the WB it actually full on occupies and illegally settles the territory of another state and steadfastly denies the entire Palestinian people their own self determination in a sovereign state.

(COMMENT)

Israel does not deny the Arab Palestinians their "Right to Self-Determination." It is actually the reverse. It is the Arabs of the disputed territories (the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip) that have denied the Jewish People their "Right to Self-Determination" and the integrity of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel.

Israel recognizes that "all people," including the Arab Palestinians, have the "Right of Self-Determination." The Israeli's oppose the authority of the method about which the Arab Palestinians attempt to achieve "Self-Determination." The implementation of a right by one peoples (Arab Palestinians) cannot legitimately encroach on the right of other peoples (Israelis). IF as you claim, the WB it actually full on occupies" the West Bank (etc), THEN you must recognize the Common and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) that is applicable to that condition. You must recognize the Geneva Conventions as in play. And IF we agree that far, THEN we must agree that Article 68, Geneva Convention IV ( Penal legislation. V. Penalties ) applies. The salient points of Article 68 substantially state as follows:

Protected persons (that being the Arab Palestinians) who:

(ONE)
◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (that being the Israelis), commit an offense which is solely intended to harm members of the occupying forces or other members of the Occupying Power,
◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power administration,
◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the property of the occupying forces,
◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the property of the administration of the Occupying Power,
◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the installations used by either the occupying forces or the administration of the Occupying Power,
◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to pose a collective danger to the members of the occupying forces or other members of the Occupying Power,

→ shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed.

(TWO)
"The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 [ Link ] and 65 [ Link ] may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offenses were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began."

So, let's talk about the general behaviors of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza Strip, relative to Article 68.

It has also violated Syrian territory since 1967 with an illegal annexation and illegal settlements of the Golan.

Yet here you are bemoaning a legitimate act of resistance ( Shalit ) for a single violation of sovereignty whilsy being silent of the mountainous violations of sovereignty committed by the state of Israel and it's forces.

(COMMENT)

As I said, the 1948 War of Independence, as far as Syria is concerned, is yet to be the subject of a permanent peace arrangement.

One thing is for sure, one needs only look at the history of Syria and its governance since 1948 (comparing it to Israel) and in the blink-of-an-eye which citizenry is better-off; Israelis 'vs' Syrians.

The Israelis rank 22d on the Human Development Index (HDI); higher than any country in the Arab League or the Middle East North African Region. On the other hand, under Syrian rule, the country ranks 154th. I'm not that the people of the Golan Heights would want to go backward in terms of life expectancy, education, and per capita income. But once Syria stabilizes, I don't think that the Knesset would refuse to consider a petition for cessation by the Arab of the Golan Heights. I do know that the Israeli Defense Force would never use mustard gas, chlorine, and possibly lewisite on its citizens like the Syrians have in the past.

You appear to be a reasonable person so I can only assume that your not seeing the hypocrisy in your view as being down to the superior propaganda of the Israeli/Wests side

(COMMENT)

OH no. In fact, since the turn of the century, I think that the superior performance of Arab Palestinian propaganda effort has had quite favorable results in the international community. But in the end, I don't see that having a significant impact on the outcome. Since the establishment of the Civil Administration in 1920 over the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied, the Arab Palestinians have been persistently avoiding, or rejected outright, the participation in the establishment of institutions through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government or otherwise help establish systems by which self-governing institutions could be founded. We will never know how much better off they would be if they would have cooperated just once in the spirit of a new potential government.

(OFF BOOK)

Am I say or even implying that the actions of the Jewish National Home and State of Israel have been without flaws or questionable activity? (RHETORICAL) Hell no! But if the Israelis have blood on their hands, the Arab Palestinians need to be run through the car wash (maybe a couple of times); as opposed to a wash at the sink.




Most Respectfully,
R

Israel does not deny the Arab Palestinians their "Right to Self-Determination." It is actually the reverse. It is the Arabs of the disputed territories (the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip) that have denied the Jewish People their "Right to Self-Determination" and the integrity of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel.

More bullshit out of Israel. There is no "disputed" territory. It is Palestine.

Potato/potatoe...twist all you want.

None of that belongs to Arab sovereignty anyway.

 

[Shusha]

The right to self determination belongs to the people of the place not the people from someplace else.

The French have the right to self determination in France. The British do not.

Why do the French have the right to self determination in France? What gives them that right?

They are the people of the place.

And how do you know that they are the people of the place?

 

[toastman]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

• Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel •

Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.

The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.

(COMMENT)

This argument (used for legitimate defense) might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.

• In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
• Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
• Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.

View attachment 315951
Most Respectfully,
R

Never attacked civilians.

Just like I said and Israel lied about.

Hamas never attacked civilians ? You on drugs ??

Did you OD on doofus pills?

The Israelis that were killed by Hamas are not civilians of a country ?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I don't think the pro-Arab Palestinians understand. And even if you show it to them in black and white, they refuse to accept it. It is one of the reasons why the conflict has lasted so long.

The Israelis that were killed by Hamas are not civilians of a country ?

(COMMENT)

As an example (I don't yet have stats for this year) in May 2019 (I like the month of May, the month of my birth), HAMAS [Islamic Resistance Movement] launched ≈ 600 rockets into Sovereign Israeli territory. Three Israelis citizens were killed by the rockets and more than 100 Israeli civilians were injured.

The political existence of Israel is completely independent of recognition or rejections and claims by the Arab Palestinians; as well as, any other states. And who the State of Israel recognizes as a citizen is outside the venue of any foreign state. No Arab Palestinian entity has the right to intervene in the internal or external affairs of Israel; to include the establishment of fundamental Basic Laws.

Arab Palestinians can act as criminals in the furtherance of Jihadism, Fedayeen Activism, Hostile Insurgency Operations, Radicalized Islamic Behaviors, and Asymmetric Violence; but they haven't accepted the challenge of building a self-governing institution in nearly a century. And as a culture, they blame anybody other than themselves (cultural Narcissism).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why is Israel Afraid of Khalida Jarrar?