Palestine Today

[rylah]

Exclusive: Rare interview with slain Palestinian medic Razan al-Najjar

Wow. An interview with a dead person. Pallywood is really dialing it up a notch!

Are you saying the interview is fake ? No , that would be a foolish mistake because I recall seeing those interview clips appearing around the time of her murder by IDF snipers.

So how is it " Palliwood " ? Which is a derogatory , imo , racial supremacist , term often used to slur any Palestinian film footage.

How it it "Palliwood " ?

Yes, what's claimed in the video is fake.
There's nothing racist about exposing the industry of lies known as 'Pallywood'.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ Spartacactcus, et al,

[W]hy does the violation of sovereignty, and the very question of sovereignty, only seem to bother you when it involves Israeli territory ? Israel is a serial violator of Syrian and Lebanese air space. It controls Gazan airspace and coastal waters and regularly violates Gazan sovereign territory to kill its people.

(COMMENT)

As far as Syria and Lebanon go, the 1948 Israeli War for Independence was never concluded. No Peace Treaty was ever signed between either Israel and Syria. And, the two Armistice Agreements are modified and uneasy.

The situation between Israel and the likes of Lebanon and Syria are much more complicated than this one response will allow.

In the WB it actually full on occupies and illegally settles the territory of another state and steadfastly denies the entire Palestinian people their own self determination in a sovereign state.

(COMMENT)

Israel does not deny the Arab Palestinians their "Right to Self-Determination." It is actually the reverse. It is the Arabs of the disputed territories (the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip) that have denied the Jewish People their "Right to Self-Determination" and the integrity of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel.

Israel recognizes that "all people," including the Arab Palestinians, have the "Right of Self-Determination." The Israeli's oppose the authority of the method about which the Arab Palestinians attempt to achieve "Self-Determination." The implementation of a right by one peoples (Arab Palestinians) cannot legitimately encroach on the right of other peoples (Israelis). IF as you claim, the WB it actually full on occupies" the West Bank (etc), THEN you must recognize the Common and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) that is applicable to that condition. You must recognize the Geneva Conventions as in play. And IF we agree that far, THEN we must agree that Article 68, Geneva Convention IV ( Penal legislation. V. Penalties ) applies. The salient points of Article 68 substantially state as follows:

Protected persons (that being the Arab Palestinians) who:

(ONE)

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (that being the Israelis), commit an offense which is solely intended to harm members of the occupying forces or other members of the Occupying Power,​

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power administration,​

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the property of the occupying forces,​

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the property of the administration of the Occupying Power,​

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the installations used by either the occupying forces or the administration of the Occupying Power,​

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to pose a collective danger to the members of the occupying forces or other members of the Occupying Power,​

→ shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed.

(TWO)

"The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 [ Link ] and 65 [ Link ] may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offenses were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began."​

So, let's talk about the general behaviors of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza Strip, relative to Article 68.

It has also violated Syrian territory since 1967 with an illegal annexation and illegal settlements of the Golan.

Yet here you are bemoaning a legitimate act of resistance ( Shalit ) for a single violation of sovereignty whilsy being silent of the mountainous violations of sovereignty committed by the state of Israel and it's forces.

(COMMENT)

As I said, the 1948 War of Independence, as far as Syria is concerned, is yet to be the subject of a permanent peace arrangement.

One thing is for sure, one needs only look at the history of Syria and its governance since 1948 (comparing it to Israel) and in the blink-of-an-eye which citizenry is better-off; Israelis 'vs' Syrians.

The Israelis rank 22d on the Human Development Index (HDI); higher than any country in the Arab League or the Middle East North African Region. On the other hand, under Syrian rule, the country ranks 154th. I'm not that the people of the Golan Heights would want to go backward in terms of life expectancy, education, and per capita income. But once Syria stabilizes, I don't think that the Knesset would refuse to consider a petition for cessation by the Arab of the Golan Heights. I do know that the Israeli Defense Force would never use mustard gas, chlorine, and possibly lewisite on its citizens like the Syrians have in the past.

You appear to be a reasonable person so I can only assume that your not seeing the hypocrisy in your view as being down to the superior propaganda of the Israeli/Wests side

(COMMENT)

OH no. In fact, since the turn of the century, I think that the superior performance of Arab Palestinian propaganda effort has had quite favorable results in the international community. But in the end, I don't see that having a significant impact on the outcome. Since the establishment of the Civil Administration in 1920 over the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied, the Arab Palestinians have been persistently avoiding, or rejected outright, the participation in the establishment of institutions through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government or otherwise help establish systems by which self-governing institutions could be founded. We will never know how much better off they would be if they would have cooperated just once in the spirit of a new potential government.

(OFF BOOK)

Am I say or even implying that the actions of the Jewish National Home and State of Israel have been without flaws or questionable activity? (RHETORICAL) Hell no! But if the Israelis have blood on their hands, the Arab Palestinians need to be run through the car wash (maybe a couple of times); as opposed to a wash at the sink.




Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

More Israeli lies.

Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.

Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?

Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' FAILURE to attack civilians from the tunnels,
after being neutralized, with not being used for attempts to fulfill that purpose.

The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.

Well that's rich...

Since the word 'Palestinians' in itself means 'Occupiers',
that's like fish complaining about water being wet.

 

[Spartacactcus]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

• Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel •

Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.

The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.

(COMMENT)

This argument (used for legitimate defense) might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.

• In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
• Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
• Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.

View attachment 315951
Most Respectfully,
R

Never attacked civilians.

Just like I said and Israel lied about.

What you meant to say - is they FAILED to attack civilians.
Thank G-d, each time the rats appear out of tunnels near civilians they're neutralized.

Your demonisation of the Palestinians is noted and rejected.

Recall they have ambushed IDF people and kidnapped them which should tell people that they had been undetected by the IDF when they attacked them. If they had wanted to get to civilians they probably could have.

I know people like yourself want to misrepresent to as to demonize but only the foolosh or ignorant fall for it imo

 

[Spartacactcus]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

• Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel •

Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.

The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.

(COMMENT)

This argument (used for legitimate defense) might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.

• In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
• Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
• Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.

View attachment 315951
Most Respectfully,
R

Never attacked civilians.

Just like I said and Israel lied about.

Hamas never attacked civilians ? You on drugs ??

Exiting from tunnels into Israel they haven't. The IDF has also been charged as being guilty of targeting civilians , so there is no moral highground that withstands a logical inquiry

 

[Spartacactcus]

More Israeli lies.

Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.

Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?

Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' FAILURE to attack civilians from the tunnels,
after being neutralized, with not being used for attempts to fulfill that purpose.

The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.

Well that's rich...

Since the word 'Palestinians' in itself means 'Occupiers',
that's like fish complaining about water being wet.

Utter junk that the Palestinians are occupiers. You sound like one of those crazy settler types on speed

 

[Spartacactcus]

Exclusive: Rare interview with slain Palestinian medic Razan al-Najjar

Wow. An interview with a dead person. Pallywood is really dialing it up a notch!

Are you saying the interview is fake ? No , that would be a foolish mistake because I recall seeing those interview clips appearing around the time of her murder by IDF snipers.

So how is it " Palliwood " ? Which is a derogatory , imo , racial supremacist , term often used to slur any Palestinian film footage.

How it it "Palliwood " ?

Yes, what's claimed in the video is fake.
There's nothing racist about exposing the blatant staged lies famously known as 'Pallywood".

The claim was " wow. interviewing a dead person ". I read that as there was something fake about the interview with Rouzan al-Najjar when there clearly wasn't. The interview was taken before she died , so the charge that they interviewed a " dead person " is evidently rubbish.

Like Israelis can complain about fake news lol Virtually everytime something happens we find lies and BS coming from the Israeli side. Recall what they said in 1967 ? That they had been attacked first ? Well , it's carried on since then and was the case before hand. Recall who the Qibya massacre was blamed on ?

The truth is always the fiirst casualty of war and on that score all parties engage in misinformation / disinformation. That you try to make it out as Palestinian issue is expected but rejected as partisan hackery

 

[rylah]

More Israeli lies.

Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.

Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?

Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' FAILURE to attack civilians from the tunnels,
after being neutralized, with not being used for attempts to fulfill that purpose.

The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.

Well that's rich...

Since the word 'Palestinians' in itself means 'Occupiers',
that's like fish complaining about water being wet.

Utter junk that the Palestinians are occupiers. You sound like one of those crazy settler types on speed

That's literally the meaning of the 'Palestinians' = 'Occupiers'.

Is there any other meaning?
Feel free to refute that.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ Spartacactcus, et al,

Exiting from tunnels into Israel they haven't. The IDF has also been charged as being guilty of targeting civilians , so there is no moral highground that withstands a logical inquiry
[/QUOTE]
(COMMENT)

Customary and IHL Database:

There is a difference between specifically targeting civilians (Rule #6 - Civilians’ Loss of Protection from Attack) or the indiscriminate attacks (Rule #12 - which are not directed at a specific military objective)fire, or casualties suffered be the Hostiles Arab Palestinians create the conditions:

◈ Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.​

​

◈ Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.​

​

◈ Rule 97. The use of human shields is prohibited.​

There is no such thing as a perfect war. But being in pursuit of those that threaten the territorial integrity, political independence, and life and safety of its citizens, Israel retains the right to exercise self-defense measures against Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters from whatever quarter.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

Exclusive: Rare interview with slain Palestinian medic Razan al-Najjar

Wow. An interview with a dead person. Pallywood is really dialing it up a notch!

Are you saying the interview is fake ? No , that would be a foolish mistake because I recall seeing those interview clips appearing around the time of her murder by IDF snipers.

So how is it " Palliwood " ? Which is a derogatory , imo , racial supremacist , term often used to slur any Palestinian film footage.

How it it "Palliwood " ?

Yes, what's claimed in the video is fake.
There's nothing racist about exposing the blatant staged lies famously known as 'Pallywood".

The claim was " wow. interviewing a dead person ". I read that as there was something fake about the interview with Rouzan al-Najjar when there clearly wasn't. The interview was taken before she died , so the charge that they interviewed a " dead person " is evidently rubbish.

Like Israelis can complain about fake news lol Virtually everytime something happens we find lies and BS coming from the Israeli side. Recall what they said in 1967 ? That they had been attacked first ? Well , it's carried on since then and was the case before hand. Recall who the Qibya massacre was blamed on ?

The truth is always the fiirst casualty of war and on that score all parties engage in misinformation / disinformation. That you try to make it out as Palestinian issue is expected but rejected as partisan hackery

You can blubber away all you want.

The video claimed she was intentionally killed,
but its been years and still no proof of a direct shot, or even being targeted.

 

[Spartacactcus]

(COMMENT)

As far as Syria and Lebanon go, the 1948 Israeli War for Independence was never concluded. No Peace Treaty was ever signed between either Israel and Syria. And, the two Armistice Agreements are modified and uneasy.

The situation between Israel and the likes of Lebanon and Syria are much more complicated than this one response will allow.

Rocco , no disrespect but overly long and disected posts are not my thing and will be read by hardly anyone else due to their layout, so I will take the points in seperate posts.

I take it you have no problem with what I said about the capturing of an occupying soldier by Palestinian militants seing as I didn't see it feature in your reply.

Regardless of whether there have been peace agreements signed or not a violation of sovereign territory is still a violation of sovereignty with Lebanon and Syria having defined borders regardless of the armistice lines that resulted from the 48 war.

The Golan is Syrian sovereignty territory being occupied and illegally settled by Israel in a everyday 53 year violation of its sovereignty. Yes ?

The same with Lebanon. It has defined borders which Israel routinely violates with troops and aircraft. Hundreds of violations of sovereignty every year, along with many more including armed attacks during the Syrian civil war. Still violations of Syrian sovereign territory.

Recall too that they have invaded the sovereign air spaces of other countries from Iraq to Tunisia.

It is thus true to say that Israel is the premier violator of sovereign territories in the region but that seems not to compute to you for some reason best kn own to yourself.

 

[rylah]

More Israeli lies.

Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.

Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?

Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' FAILURE to attack civilians from the tunnels,
after being neutralized, with not being used for attempts to fulfill that purpose.

The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.

Well that's rich...

Since the word 'Palestinians' in itself means 'Occupiers',
that's like fish complaining about water being wet.

Utter junk that the Palestinians are occupiers. You sound like one of those crazy settler types on speed

That's literally the meaning of the 'Palestinians' = 'Occupiers'.

Is there any other meaning?
Feel free to refute that.

Spartacactcus I'm waiting...
But I won't hold my breath.

In the meantime, maybe you can also explain how come those who claim 'Palestine' is theirs,
can't even pronounce the word, let alone know its meaning?

 

[Spartacactcus]

(COMMENT)

Israel does not deny the Arab Palestinians their "Right to Self-Determination." It is actually the reverse. It is the Arabs of the disputed territories (the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip) that have denied the Jewish People their "Right to Self-Determination" and the integrity of the Jewish National Home and the State of Israel.

Israel recognizes that "all people," including the Arab Palestinians, have the "Right of Self-Determination." The Israeli's oppose the authority of the method about which the Arab Palestinians attempt to achieve "Self-Determination." The implementation of a right by one peoples (Arab Palestinians) cannot legitimately encroach on the right of other peoples (Israelis). IF as you claim, the WB it actually full on occupies" the West Bank (etc), THEN you must recognize the Common and International Humanitarian Law (IHL) that is applicable to that condition. You must recognize the Geneva Conventions as in play. And IF we agree that far, THEN we must agree that Article 68, Geneva Convention IV ( Penal legislation. V. Penalties ) applies. The salient points of Article 68 substantially state as follows:

Protected persons (that being the Arab Palestinians) who:

(ONE)

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power (that being the Israelis), commit an offense which is solely intended to harm members of the occupying forces or other members of the Occupying Power,​

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power administration,​

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the property of the occupying forces,​

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the property of the administration of the Occupying Power,​

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to damage the installations used by either the occupying forces or the administration of the Occupying Power,​

◈ commit an offense which is solely intended to pose a collective danger to the members of the occupying forces or other members of the Occupying Power,​

→ shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offense committed.

(TWO)

"The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 [ Link ] and 65 [ Link ] may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offenses which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offenses were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began."​

So, let's talk about the general behaviors of the Arab Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza Strip, relative to Article 68.

Nope, Israel is standing in the way of Palestinian self determination and has been since 1948. It is aided and abetted by the US veto at the UN and has, every year for the last 4 decades voted against the two state solution at the Novemeber UNGA votes on the subject.

The long list of rules you cited are for " protected persons but " NOT for combatants, who are afaik to be treated the same as any other combatants in an ongoing military conflict . Thus those that captured Shalit were combatants who captured a combatant of the occupying forces. Everything about that is legitimate.

If you want to look at the treatment of actual protected persons see the administrative detentions and torture of thousands upon thousands of Palestinians SUSPECTED of acts against the occupying power. Or the military courts filled with occupying forces people presiding over cases involving those protected persons. Or the destruction of civilian properties and the dishing out of collective punishments etc etc

Once again Rocco , you seem to only care about violations against Israeli folk. There's a patterm emerging despite your claims to be objective imo

 

[Spartacactcus]

More Israeli lies.

Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.

Is that why these tunnels lead directly to civilians?

Again you're confusing the Jihadi rats' FAILURE to attack civilians from the tunnels,
after being neutralized, with not being used for attempts to fulfill that purpose.

The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.

Well that's rich...

Since the word 'Palestinians' in itself means 'Occupiers',
that's like fish complaining about water being wet.

Utter junk that the Palestinians are occupiers. You sound like one of those crazy settler types on speed

That's literally the meaning of the 'Palestinians' = 'Occupiers'.

Is there any other meaning?
Feel free to refute that.

Spartacactcus I'm waiting...
But I won't hold my breath.

In the meantime, maybe you can also explain how come those who claim 'Palestine' is theirs,
can't even pronounce the word, let alone know its meaning?

You're waiting for what? For me to agree that the Palestinians are "occupiers "of their own territory ? lol Ain't gonna happen.

I am not trying to avoid you, I am just working my way through Roccos long winded reply from earlier.

 

[toastman]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

• Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel •

Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.

The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.

(COMMENT)

This argument (used for legitimate defense) might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.

• In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
• Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
• Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.

View attachment 315951
Most Respectfully,
R

Never attacked civilians.

Just like I said and Israel lied about.

Hamas never attacked civilians ? You on drugs ??

Exiting from tunnels into Israel they haven't. The IDF has also been charged as being guilty of targeting civilians , so there is no moral highground that withstands a logical inquiry

I was talking in general about Hamas killing civilians ; not just tunnels.
BTW, the IDF as a whole , do not target civilians . They have absolutely no reason to

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

• Your Complete Guide to Hamas’ Network of Terror Tunnel •

Those tunnels have never been used to attack civilians. They have only been used for legitimate defense.

The Palestinians never experience quiet. They suffer occupation 24/7.

(COMMENT)

This argument (used for legitimate defense) might have had some credibility if not for the fact that it crossed the border and penetrated Israeli Sovereignty.

• In 2006, Hamas militants used a tunnel to launch a surprise attack that captured an Israel soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held as a hostage for five years before being exchanged for over one thousand Palestinian prisoners.
• Used to store weapons and ammunition, protect Hamas personnel and provide fortified underground launching pads for firing rockets at Israel.
• Uses tunnels to smuggle arms, including sophisticated Iranian rockets, into Gaza from Egypt.

View attachment 315951
Most Respectfully,
R

Never attacked civilians.

Just like I said and Israel lied about.

Hamas never attacked civilians ? You on drugs ??

Exiting from tunnels into Israel they haven't. The IDF has also been charged as being guilty of targeting civilians , so there is no moral highground that withstands a logical inquiry

The IDF as a whole do not target civilians. They have absolutely no reason to. Have there been isolated incidents where Palestinians were targeted by IDF soldiers or Israeli civilians? I have no doubt. Another thing Israelis do not do is hand out candy and celebrate when Palestinians are killed.

 

[toastman]

Tinmore and Spatacactus, like two peas in a pod.....

 

[Spartacactcus]

(COMMENT)

As I said, the 1948 War of Independence, as far as Syria is concerned, is yet to be the subject of a permanent peace arrangement.

One thing is for sure, one needs only look at the history of Syria and its governance since 1948 (comparing it to Israel) and in the blink-of-an-eye which citizenry is better-off; Israelis 'vs' Syrians.

The Israelis rank 22d on the Human Development Index (HDI); higher than any country in the Arab League or the Middle East North African Region. On the other hand, under Syrian rule, the country ranks 154th. I'm not that the people of the Golan Heights would want to go backward in terms of life expectancy, education, and per capita income. But once Syria stabilizes, I don't think that the Knesset would refuse to consider a petition for cessation by the Arab of the Golan Heights. I do know that the Israeli Defense Force would never use mustard gas, chlorine, and possibly lewisite on its citizens like the Syrians have in the past.

The 48 war is irrelevant to the question of Israeli violations of the sovereign territories of Lebanon and Syria. Your insistance on plugging away at this is troublesome to your claim of objectivity imo

Worse still the second part of the above is a JUSTIFICATION for the violation of the sovereignty of the surrounding nations which kind of rubbishes any claims you have made about holding it as a sacred cow when it applied to Israeil sovereign territory only.

There are many reasons why Syria ( and other nations in the area ) has low rankings on such scales and Israel has also played it's part in making it so. Syria has been plagued by a civil war for years and the country is all but destroyed now. Had Israel undergone such a catastrophic civil war that too would cause it to plummet down the charts of how well or not the citizens are doing.

Maybe had Assad demanded the same aid Israel has gotten for his services as torturer of US extraordinary renditions cases they might have been doing better prior to the war anyway.

 

[Spartacactcus]

Tinmore and Spatacactus, like two peas in a pod.....

Roses amongst the thorns imo lol

 

[Spartacactcus]

OH no. In fact, since the turn of the century, I think that the superior performance of Arab Palestinian propaganda effort has had quite favorable results in the international community. But in the end, I don't see that having a significant impact on the outcome. Since the establishment of the Civil Administration in 1920 over the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applied, the Arab Palestinians have been persistently avoiding, or rejected outright, the participation in the establishment of institutions through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government or otherwise help establish systems by which self-governing institutions could be founded. We will never know how much better off they would be if they would have cooperated just once in the spirit of a new potential government.

Rocco your are expecting turkeys to be be voting for Christmas.

That the Palestinians have shot themselves in the foot on many occasions and worked against their own interests is not in dispute imo. It is always a part of the nature of these struggles but there is nothing unreasonable or abnormal about this.

Did the native Americans ever welcome those that came to dipossess and displace them ? Australian Aboriginals ? The tribes of South Africa ? anyone anywhere ? Nope,

Maybe if they had all have had crystal balls they may have been able to see their fate and make unpopular but pragmatic decisions based on that but , alas , they aren't readily available

 

[Shusha]

The 48 war is irrelevant to the question of Israeli violations of the sovereign territories of Lebanon and Syria. Your insistance on plugging away at this is troublesome to your claim of objectivity imo

The 1948 Arab/Israeli war is entirely relevant. Why? Because the state of war between Syria and Israel has not ended or been resolved. It is on-going. The belligerent action which started that war was Syria leaving its own sovereign territory and attacking another's sovereignty in another's sovereign territory. That would be Israel.

A state of war exists between Syria and Israel. Because of this, the actions of Israel are dictated by defensive military considerations.