Palestine Today

[USAF 2023]

Jerusalem Archbishop Christians worldwide must reject israel's occupation of Palestine

Bethlehem also has Religious meaning for the JEWISH People even though it is not acknowledged. Deal with it Palestinians aren't going anywhere? Neither are the Jewish people; They have as much Right as the Christians and Palestinians.
Ask your New Best Friend; Rep. Tliab


For Jews, Bethlehem (Bet Lechem) is the burial place of the matriarch Rachel and the birthplace of King David. Additionally, Samuel anointed David as king of Israel in Bethlehem (I Sam. 16:1-13) and David's ancestors - Ruth and Boaz - were married in Bethlehem.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[USAF 2023]

This is her goal which will never happen according to the "INTERNATIONAL LAW" we hear so much about

Ms. Tlaib, a lawyer and former state legislator, said during her campaign that she would “absolutely” vote against military aid to Israel. She also said she would be open to a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that would create a single state that would include Israel within its 1948 borders, the West Bank and possibly the Gaza Strip under one democratic government, a position some fear would erode Israel as a Jewish homeland.

 

[toomuchtime_]

She is an embarrassment to most Democrats, living proof that Pelosi's identity politics is destroying the Party.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[toomuchtime_]

It is an effort to make Palestinians grow up and take responsibility for their actions.

 

[rylah]

Something to do with their "warm feelings about the Holocaust"...?
Or maybe just "some people doing something"?

Can't be that they're just cretins...

 

[rylah]

When you pretend to be talking about smart stuff,
but can't even make up a fake quote to make sense.



Can you please go more stupid?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Why isn't she working to help her constituents in Michigan instead of obsessing over Israel?

 

[USAF 2023]

Why isn't she working to help her constituents in Michigan instead of obsessing over Israel?

This is her goal which will never happen according to the "INTERNATIONAL LAW" we hear so much about

Ms. Tlaib, a lawyer and former state legislator, said during her campaign that she would “absolutely” vote against military aid to Israel. She also said she would be open to a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that would create a single state that would include Israel within its 1948 borders, the West Bank and possibly the Gaza Strip under one democratic government, a position some fear would erode Israel as a Jewish homeland.

What Palestinians Want — in Their Own Words — When They Say ‘From the River to the Sea’

 

[Shusha]

What Arab only settlements?

They are ALL Arab-only settlements. In every area that is even nominally controlled by Arabs -- they are ALL Arab only. The Temple freaking Mount is Arab-only, or close enough, and certainly would be if Arabs actually controlled it.

In what world are you pretending that they are not Arab-only?

Area C. The settlement program. The one requiring permits. The sponsored and encouraged by the government. Why no Arab settlements? Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements?

If memory serves there are 241 Arab-only settlements in Area C. In addition, there are several Arab-only settlements in Area C which result from a spilling over from Areas A and B.

Building permits for ALL Israeli citizens are granted or not granted on the basis of meeting guidelines for site ownership, zoning, planning, and safety regulations. No building permits are issued (or not issued) based on race, ethnicity, religion or gender. In fact, it is illegal to even gather that information on building permit applications and therefore NO ONE KNOWS the number of building permits issued to Arabs vs. Jews.

So, when you ask, "Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements", you are either demonstrating your lack of knowledge about this subject, or, as has been suggested, are throwing out soundbytes in order to demonize Jews and Israel.

If you are interested in having a discussion, factually incorrect and demonizing statements such as the one above should be dropped in favor of a solid understanding of the entirety of the reality on the ground.

When discussing communities in Area C, we need to consider:

• Citizens of Palestine living in numerous small villages scattered throughout Area C.
• Arab and Jewish Israeli citizens moving into Area C.
• Arab and Jewish Israeli citizen squatters and outposts.
• Expanding existing Arab and Jewish settlements.
• Building in Jerusalem.
• Security needs.

 

[Shusha]

I am going to dispute that. It is very much a political program designed to alter the regional demographics.

Yes, the Jewish people returning to their homeland is very much a drive by the Jewish people, to, you know, resettle their homeland and establish the State of Israel. It very much intended to change the demographics of the region.

It is not motivated by a political drive for territory but as the drive of a people to re-constitute their homeland. Contrast that with the Morocco government asserting her claim to Western Sahara by deliberately transferring hundreds of thousands of Moroccans into Western Sahara prior to a referendum vote.

What I'm arguing here is the difference in motivation and who is driving it.

 

[Shusha]

If it were not political, why are Arabs not granted permits to settle in Area C?

You would have to first prove your claim that Arabs are not granted permits to settle in Area C.

 

[Shusha]

Israeli bullshit, of course. The PA only (almost) controls only 18% of the Bethlehem governorate. The rest of it is Israel ******* over the Christians.

The PA controls 18% of the territory, but 88% of the Arab population of Bethlehem reside in Areas A and B, under PA control.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

I find the parallels interesting but I am not sure I understand. Palestinian civilians being stoned by Jewish settlers(to the extent soldiers must escort children to school and the Israeli government seems incapable of or lacking the will to stop it) ... how does that relate to what you said?

(COMMENT)

Each of the Exemplars has some of the same characteristics as you observed (and question) in the "Israeli Settler 'v' Local Arab Palestinians."

Whether you examine the victim aspect of the • Farming Homesteaders 'v' Cattleman Barons of the Stock-Grower's Association • the property owners, farmers, and ranchers "v" Railroad Tycoons and right-of-ways • or the • Hatfields 'v' McCoys • there will be a wide spectrum of those injured and dead in every category (men, women and children). Remember, there were entire families murdered in each exemplar. Your example of protection through escort for children differs only in the time differential and traffic pattern. Each exemplar had the same level of threat to the associated victim spectrum.

(CONSIDERATION)

It is not unusual for such feuds to immerge and last several generations. There is no question that the period of conflict has been lengthy. But (as an example) the American Colonial Indian Wars through to engagement on the Lakota Pine Ridge Indian Reservation → Wounded Knee → (and beyond ≈ 1622 • ≈ 1890) lasted over two and half centuries; and half of the casualties were women and children.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

41% of Palestinians around the world are refugees who were forced to flee their homeland since 1948, under threat of persecution,conflict and war.

(COMMENT)

So, you're saying that 41% of Palestinians around the world are refugees who were forced to flee their homeland since 1948, are more than 70 years old.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toomuchtime_]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

41% of Palestinians around the world are refugees who were forced to flee their homeland since 1948, under threat of persecution,conflict and war.

(COMMENT)

So, you're saying that 41% of Palestinians around the world are refugees who were forced to flee their homeland since 1948, are more than 70 years old.


Most Respectfully,
R

Under the UNRWA mandate, Palestinian who do not live in Israel are considered refugees until the end of time or until Israel has been destroyed, whichever comes first. This peculiar definition of "refugee" exists nowhere else in the world. In other places a refugee has to be an actual refugee.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ toomuchtime_, P F Tinmore, et al,

Not a criticism, but just a clarification.

The UNRWA CERI (Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions) IS NOT LAW. It is an Administrative Instruction on the eligibility for "services."

{LINK: Who we are.}
UNRWA services are available to all those living in its areas of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. When the Agency began operations in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, some 5 million Palestine refugees are eligible for UNRWA services.

So, you're saying that 41% of Palestinians around the world are refugees who were forced to flee their homeland since 1948, are more than 70 years old.

Under the UNRWA mandate, Palestinian who do not live in Israel are considered refugees until the end of time or until Israel has been destroyed, whichever comes first. This peculiar definition of "refugee" exists nowhere else in the world. In other places, a refugee has to be an actual refugee.

(COMMENT)

The UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East) is a non-governmental organization (NGO); with a UN General Assembly mandate extending (currently) until 30 June 2020 (NOT → "until the end of time or until Israel has been destroyed"). The UNRWA definition is outlined solely for the purpose of establishing eligibility for UNRWA assistance and services. It does not define the term "refugee" or establish any legal definition for a "refugee."

The UNRWA was established by A/RES/302 (IV) • 8 December 1949; which Directs the UNRWA to consult with the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine in the best interests of their respective tasks, with particular reference to paragraph 11 of A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948...

"Refugees are people who have fled war, violence, conflict or persecution and have crossed an international border to find safety in another country.

They often have had to flee with little more than the clothes on their back, leaving behind homes, possessions, jobs and loved ones.

Refugees are defined and protected in international law. The 1951 Refugee Convention is a key legal document and defines a refugee as:"

“someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion.”
​

SOURCE: UNHCR Web Site: What is a refugee.

While there is an international convention (Law) that defines a refugee, there is NO convention that distinguishes a separate definition for "Palestinian Refugees."

The distinction is that "Palestinian Refugees" cannot draw services from both the UNHCR (United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees) and the UNRWA at the same time. If the UNRWA should ever close its operations, the UNHCR would pick-up that obligation. But the UNHCR would not be obligated to carry-on the implementation of CERI.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toomuchtime_]

RE: Palestine Today
⁜→ toomuchtime_, P F Tinmore, et al,

Not a criticism, but just a clarification.

The UNRWA CERI (Consolidated Eligibility and Registration Instructions) IS NOT LAW. It is an Administrative Instruction on the eligibility for "services."

{LINK: Who we are.}
UNRWA services are available to all those living in its areas of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. When the Agency began operations in 1950, it was responding to the needs of about 750,000 Palestine refugees. Today, some 5 million Palestine refugees are eligible for UNRWA services.

So, you're saying that 41% of Palestinians around the world are refugees who were forced to flee their homeland since 1948, are more than 70 years old.

Under the UNRWA mandate, Palestinian who do not live in Israel are considered refugees until the end of time or until Israel has been destroyed, whichever comes first. This peculiar definition of "refugee" exists nowhere else in the world. In other places, a refugee has to be an actual refugee.

(COMMENT)

The UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East) is a non-governmental organization (NGO); with a UN General Assembly mandate extending (currently) until 30 June 2020 (NOT → "until the end of time or until Israel has been destroyed"). The UNRWA definition is outlined solely for the purpose of establishing eligibility for UNRWA assistance and services. It does not define the term "refugee" or establish any legal definition for a "refugee."

The UNRWA was established by A/RES/302 (IV) • 8 December 1949; which Directs the UNRWA to consult with the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine in the best interests of their respective tasks, with particular reference to paragraph 11 of A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948...

"Refugees are people who have fled war, violence, conflict or persecution and have crossed an international border to find safety in another country.

They often have had to flee with little more than the clothes on their back, leaving behind homes, possessions, jobs and loved ones.

Refugees are defined and protected in international law. The 1951 Refugee Convention is a key legal document and defines a refugee as:"

“someone who is unable or unwilling to return to their country of origin owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion.”
​

SOURCE: UNHCR Web Site: What is a refugee.

While there is an international convention (Law) that defines a refugee, there is NO convention that distinguishes a separate definition for "Palestinian Refugees."

The distinction is that "Palestinian Refugees" cannot draw services from both the UNHCR (United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees) and the UNRWA at the same time. If the UNRWA should ever close its operations, the UNHCR would pick-up that obligation. But the UNHCR would not be obligated to carry-on the implementation of CERI.


Most Respectfully,
R

All true and yet, the grandchildren of someone who left Israel in 1948 are regarded as a refugees in documents and opinions that have nothing to do with receiving services. Similarly, as occupation is defined in the Geneva Conventions, there is no Israeli occupation and there is no basis in law, fact or logic for calling any part of Judea or Samaria Palestinian territory yet it is hard to find any reference to them that does not call them occupied Palestinian territories. Talking about refugees who are not refugees, an occupation that is not an occupation and Palestinian territories that are not in any sense Palestinian territory encourages unrealistic expectations among the so called Palestinians, really just stateless Arabs living in the unincorporated remnants of the former Mandate for Palestine, and prolongs the conflict the people who use these misleading terms claim to be concerned about.

 

[Coyote]

What Arab only settlements?

They are ALL Arab-only settlements. In every area that is even nominally controlled by Arabs -- they are ALL Arab only. The Temple freaking Mount is Arab-only, or close enough, and certainly would be if Arabs actually controlled it.

In what world are you pretending that they are not Arab-only?

Area C. The settlement program. The one requiring permits. The sponsored and encouraged by the government. Why no Arab settlements? Why are ONLY Jews allowed to create settlements?

Why do you keep repeating the same lies over and over again? All Israelis have the same rights. Were you not so profoundly racist, you would be asking why Arab Israelis choose not to move to Judea and Samaria.

You keep saying racist like you think you know what it means.