Over 300 Businesses cut employees due to Obamacare

[HenryBHough]

Formerly 24-hour coffee shop nearby now closes overnight so as to eliminate staff and stay under 50 total.

True, only a handful have lost jobs. Somehow they believe that's important though libbots just think it's funny.

I think you are full of shit. I know a local coffee company that just hired 1500 because they could offer them less expensive health options under obamacare.

Thank you for confirming that which I already KNOW about you.

 

[william the wie]

For all of you replying to Rshermer have you forgotten the Ignore function?

 

[oldfart]

Our company needs those hours filled, whether it's by one person or two people. It's just unfortunate that while providing income for another poor soul who needs the work, it is at the expense of cutting other employees hours. The company saw the writing on the wall and prepared for the inevitable to be in compliance. You simply have your head buried in the sand if you want to pretend to believe that this isn't having widespread negative consequences.

I don't question what you see and hear on your job. Please extend the same courtesy to me. Rather than burying my head in the sand, I have been an active partner in a regional tax and accounting firm (I mostly handle tax disputes) for the last 35 years. My education has been mathematical economics and statistics. I see financials on several hundred small businesses a year. The first thing I learned when I gave up teaching started business is that most rules of thumb and stuff "everybody" knows in business is usually wrong. So I started keeping real statistics on my business and those of my clients.

One of the things that I found is that most employers make employment and staffing decisions based on one set of criteria but represent them as being made on another. The few cases where employment decisions were actually made based on this kind of political posturing they usually turn out incredibly badly. It may seem rational to try to hire two people at 25 hours a week instead of one at 50 hours a week, but it's not that easy. One of our businesses is a payroll processing service where about half the employees work in restaurants or construction. Everybody bitches about paying overtime, but turns in 60-hour a week time sheets.

I understand the business you work for is a different industry, I'm just suggesting that you may be drawing conclusions from a small sample of businesses with bias in the data reporting.

 

[oldfart]

Businesses exist to make their owners and/or shareholders a profit.

If the company goes under because it's not making a profit, ALL their employees are out of work.

How, exactly, is any of this "selfishness"?

I wouldn't call it selfishness. Most failing businesses are put under because management doesn't understand how to make the business consistently profitable. Especially for smaller businesses, business management is a network of inter-personal relationships among stakeholders. Treating any major stakeholder badly, or failing to replace a stakeholder who is performing badly is what puts a business under. Generally the stakeholders are the guys who put up the financing, the banks that provide lines of credit, the key suppliers, key customers, key employees, and a few professionals (a good attorney, a good accountant, a good marketing consultant, good IP, good HR, etc).

The economic literature and my experience indicates that few businesses are driven by a profit motive. Everyone gets into business EXPECTING to make money, but that doesn't drive business decisions very much except when a business is failing, as you clearly noted. The way to achieve long-term profitability is to manage the relationships.

The worst thing a business could do now with a fragile economy tipping into another recession would be to screw up an important stakeholder relationship. So tell me why it's good business to be cutting hours now when the employer mandate is 15 months away?

 

[daveman]

Businesses exist to make their owners and/or shareholders a profit.

If the company goes under because it's not making a profit, ALL their employees are out of work.

How, exactly, is any of this "selfishness"?

I wouldn't call it selfishness. Most failing businesses are put under because management doesn't understand how to make the business consistently profitable. Especially for smaller businesses, business management is a network of inter-personal relationships among stakeholders. Treating any major stakeholder badly, or failing to replace a stakeholder who is performing badly is what puts a business under. Generally the stakeholders are the guys who put up the financing, the banks that provide lines of credit, the key suppliers, key customers, key employees, and a few professionals (a good attorney, a good accountant, a good marketing consultant, good IP, good HR, etc).

The economic literature and my experience indicates that few businesses are driven by a profit motive. Everyone gets into business EXPECTING to make money, but that doesn't drive business decisions very much except when a business is failing, as you clearly noted. The way to achieve long-term profitability is to manage the relationships.

The worst thing a business could do now with a fragile economy tipping into another recession would be to screw up an important stakeholder relationship. So tell me why it's good business to be cutting hours now when the employer mandate is 15 months away?

Dunno. I don't have a business.

Maybe instead of reading the literature, you could ask a business owner who's cutting hours...?

 

[william the wie]

Our company needs those hours filled, whether it's by one person or two people. It's just unfortunate that while providing income for another poor soul who needs the work, it is at the expense of cutting other employees hours. The company saw the writing on the wall and prepared for the inevitable to be in compliance. You simply have your head buried in the sand if you want to pretend to believe that this isn't having widespread negative consequences.

Why did they wait so long? The start of this readjustment pre-dates the 2010 election.

Rethink Robotics for example sold their open platform concept to more VCs in part because of Obamacare. That will eliminate many entry level jobs.

The unpaid internship lawsuits are piling up because the entertainment industry is leading the way in deleting paid hours with unpaid hours and made that gimmick famous.

I suspect the big surprise will be all of the senators, mostly Ds, who will be part of an unscheduled 2014 election by means of recall. That could reach double digits and normally senatorial recalls average what once every 50 years?

Hell, economic intercept a Keynesian newsletter I subscribe to had an article today about the Democrats as the Party of the New Slavery.

Obamacare is shaping up into a bigger political disaster than Watergate. But kicking out the proto-NAZIs of the Jackson/Wilson/FDR stripe only to replace them with the Lemon Socialists of the Nixon/Ford/Reagan/Bush/Bush flavor is not a real change for the better.

 

[Rshermr]

Our company needs those hours filled, whether it's by one person or two people. It's just unfortunate that while providing income for another poor soul who needs the work, it is at the expense of cutting other employees hours. The company saw the writing on the wall and prepared for the inevitable to be in compliance. You simply have your head buried in the sand if you want to pretend to believe that this isn't having widespread negative consequences.

Why did they wait so long? The start of this readjustment pre-dates the 2010 election.

Rethink Robotics for example sold their open platform concept to more VCs in part because of Obamacare. That will eliminate many entry level jobs.

The unpaid internship lawsuits are piling up because the entertainment industry is leading the way in deleting paid hours with unpaid hours and made that gimmick famous.

I suspect the big surprise will be all of the senators, mostly Ds, who will be part of an unscheduled 2014 election by means of recall. That could reach double digits and normally senatorial recalls average what once every 50 years?

Hell, economic intercept a Keynesian newsletter I subscribe to had an article today about the Democrats as the Party of the New Slavery.

Obamacare is shaping up into a bigger political disaster than Watergate. But kicking out the proto-NAZIs of the Jackson/Wilson/FDR stripe only to replace them with the Lemon Socialists of the Nixon/Ford/Reagan/Bush/Bush flavor is not a real change for the better.

Well, I see you have NO links proving anything you are saying. Relative to the cost or savings of the aca, I am afraid the cbo disagrees with you completely. So, I could believe you or the cbo. And my money is on the cbo.

 

[HenryBHough]

For all of you replying to Rshermer have you forgotten the Ignore function?

But why when presented with such an easy mark?

 

[Rshermr]

Formerly 24-hour coffee shop nearby now closes overnight so as to eliminate staff and stay under 50 total.

True, only a handful have lost jobs. Somehow they believe that's important though libbots just think it's funny.

I think you are full of shit. I know a local coffee company that just hired 1500 because they could offer them less expensive health options under obamacare.

Thank you for confirming that which I already KNOW about you.

Just making the point. You were pushing bullshit, which you did not prove. So, can you prove I am not telling the truth??? Nor can I you.
Here is the difference. I admit when I am pushing bs, as in this case, to prove a point. You do not. You simply post bullshit, which makes NO EARTHLY SENSE. Since they alleged coffee shop in your statement had 15 months before any possible costs from obamacare, why would they make a move like you suggested now??? And by the way, must be a hell of a large coffee shop to meet the 50 employee requirement. Most have less than a dozen.

But if you want to provide the name and address, I will check you out. Or perhaps a local news link. It surely made the news, eh me boy.

Lack thereof will help to prove my theory about you. That is, you are simply lying.

 

[Vandalshandle]

The democrats have been trying to destroy the connection between employers and employee health insurance for decades. This is exactly what Medicare did, When it went into effect in 1966, employers stopped paying for retiree insurance, thereby making them more competative in the world market. No other country burdons their employers with the expense of health insurance for employees.

ACA is the best that we could do.Iif we could have gotten a multiple option universal health plan through the government, employers would have been able to spend that money on expansion and hiring.

 

[oldfart]

Dunno. I don't have a business.

Maybe instead of reading the literature, you could ask a business owner who's cutting hours...?

I am a business owner, as are about 700 of my firm's clients. I haven't reduced payroll in my business in 35 years and am always looking for new opportunities and good staff. Staffing has always been the scarcest resource in my businesses. The clients we have that are reducing staff are mainly due to seasonal considerations (we are after all on the Florida coast) and we lost a lot of construction firms when the housing market crashed.

 

[daveman]

Dunno. I don't have a business.

Maybe instead of reading the literature, you could ask a business owner who's cutting hours...?

I am a business owner, as are about 700 of my firm's clients. I haven't reduced payroll in my business in 35 years and am always looking for new opportunities and good staff. Staffing has always been the scarcest resource in my businesses. The clients we have that are reducing staff are mainly due to seasonal considerations (we are after all on the Florida coast) and we lost a lot of construction firms when the housing market crashed.

Did you miss where I said "...you could ask a business owner who's cutting hours"?

 

[oldfart]

Did you miss where I said "...you could ask a business owner who's cutting hours"?

Didn't miss it. My point is that I am involved with a lot of business owners, a few of which are cutting payroll at any given time, and especially this time of year, and I don't have to ask. You missed the part about us having a payroll processing company?