Original intent that wing-nuts are ignorant of or worse---ignore.

[AtlasShrieked]

This is just too friggin' funny. I usually don't get a chance to get into this as most message boarders are unwilling to listen---so I'll just talk to myself as I laugh at those who think they know WTF they are talking about when they quote Jefferson.

Jefferson's dedication to "consent of the governed" was so thorough that he believed that individuals could not be morally bound by the actions of preceding generations. This included debts as well as law.

He said that "no society can make a perpetual constitution or even a perpetual law.

The earth belongs always to the living generation."

He even calculated what he believed to be the proper cycle of legal revolution: "Every constitution then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of nineteen years. If it is to be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right."

He arrived at nineteen years through calculations with expectancy of life tables, taking into account what he believed to be the age of "maturity"—when an individual is able to reason for himself.[39] He also advocated that the national debt should be eliminated. He did not believe that living individuals had a moral obligation to repay the debts of previous generations. He said that repaying such debts was "a question of generosity and not of right."[40]

 

[Gungnir]

Seems pretty good. Where is the link?

 

[AtlasShrieked]

Seems pretty good. Where is the link?

the bracketed numbers are enough to give It away: Thomas Jefferson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


there are other links that are pretty darned good if wiki is not enough to sate your curiosity

 

[Gungnir]

I was to busy looking for the forest to see the trees.

 

[AtlasShrieked]

I was to busy looking for the forest to see the trees.

barbarian!

 

[Gungnir]

*Unreconstructed Southerner*

 

[AtlasShrieked]

*Unreconstructed Southerner*

crap!


now I need to write a letter of apology to the BARBARIANS?

 

[Gungnir]

I would, you know how testy they can be sometimes.

Very fragile egos and all.

 

[AtlasShrieked]

i Would, You Know How Testy They Can Be Sometimes.

Very Fragile Egos And All.

Faithless Heathens!

 

[Gungnir]

Doom doom doom doom doom ...

 

[editec]

Jefferson apparently wasn't familiar with the concept of a "GOING CONCERN."

Tommie said a LOT of noble and idealistic things.

Then when he was POTUS his actions basically refuted most of them.

 

[indago]

Thomas Jefferson had railed against the perpetual debt system advocated by Alexander Hamilton:
-----------------------------------------------
I have thrown out these as loose heads of amendment, for consideration and correction; and their object is to secure self-government by the republicanism of our constitution, as well as by the spirit of the people; and to nourish and perpetuate that spirit. I am not among those who fear the people. They, and not the rich, are our dependence for continued freedom. And to preserve their independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between — economy and liberty — , or — profusion and servitude — . If we run into such debts, as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and our creeds, as the people of England are, our people, like them, must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, give the earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses; and the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they now do, on oatmeal and potatoes; have no time to think, no means of calling the mismanagers to account; but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers. — Letter To Samuel Kercheval — Monticello, July 12, 1816


...In seeking, then, for an ultimate term for the redemption of our debts, let us rally to this principle, and provide for their payment within the term of nineteen years at the farthest. — Letter To John Wayles Eppes — Monticello, June 24, 1813

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-

 

[jillian]

LINKS!!! LINKS!!! LINKS!!

Have you all gone mad, people? ;oS

 

[editec]

It's pretty damned hard to find a link that supports my position since my position requires and fairly long read about the thrust of the Jefferson administrations policies over time.

I like Jefferson, but the man was, much like all of us, a bundle of conflicting opinions.

He talks beautifully about the dignity of man, and then owns slave his whole life.

He speaks about limiting government but when he was POTUS he became the dictatorial type he chided when he was not in office.

Power corrupts.

 

[AllieBaba]

Pfft.

 

[jillian]

I was referring to Indago's post since it appears to use another's words.

I like the intellectual exercise of reading about Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin.... but every syllable they uttered isn't law. Nor did they ever anticipate women voting, or so many other issues we face today. Too true about slavery, as well. Ultimately, I think they left us with a pretty good document from which to glean basic rights, although not ALL of our rights.

 

[manifold]

I was referring to Indago's post since it appears to use another's words.

I like the intellectual exercise of reading about Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin.... but every syllable they uttered isn't law. Nor did they ever anticipate women voting, or so many other issues we face today. Too true about slavery, as well. Ultimately, I think they left us with a pretty good document from which to glean basic rights, although not ALL of our rights.

Hmmm?

Interesting that you view women voting as an "issue." Please please, tell me more?

 

[Gungnir]

Worst mistake ever.

 

[Shattered]

Worst mistake ever.

What? Allowing women to vote?

Pfft. Wait til there's a female president, and we find some reason to go to war with someone every 28 days.

 

[midcan5]

"Words are all we have." Samuel Beckett

Interesting thread. I love quotations as anyone who reads my posts knows but so often when used in debate they have little relevance. I attempt to use them as food for thought. But going back to the 18th century and applying its worldview to the present time is usually empty rhetoric. Consider only the well regulated militia, or the corporation today, or the global economy, or medical progress, or even racial and human progress.

Thomas Jefferson on Politics & Government: Front Page