Origin of life - the simplest form of life

[esalla]

So, what do you all think about the evidence scientists have discovered? Feel free to post links - I love doing research!

My personal opinion is that life occurred spontaneously in conditions very different from what we see today. There are plenty of theories that use only natural forces that one requiring supernatural intervention is superfluous. Since we'll probably never know for sure what the conditions were and we'll never get a few billion years to run the experiment, we'll never know exactly what happened.

DNA did not form spontaneously Windows 10 would write itself in a pond first

 

[Hollie]

So, what do you all think about the evidence scientists have discovered? Feel free to post links - I love doing research!

My personal opinion is that life occurred spontaneously in conditions very different from what we see today. There are plenty of theories that use only natural forces that one requiring supernatural intervention is superfluous. Since we'll probably never know for sure what the conditions were and we'll never get a few billion years to run the experiment, we'll never know exactly what happened.

DNA did not form spontaneously Windows 10 would write itself in a pond first

If DNA did not form naturally, then it was formed by magical / supernatural means?

 

[alang1216]

There is no reason to believe DNA was the required for the first life. A much simpler system was more likely and there are many theories

 

[fncceo]

What actual scientific finding do you have to show life didn't arise from the combination of its constituent elements?

It's always difficult to prove a negative but I would say the proof is scientists can't make life arise from a combination of elements.

Given a Billion years, and several quadrillion separate recombinations of compounds in the right environment, I'm guessing they could.

 

[Picaro]

Newtonian you might like this blog,

One moment, please...

if you haven't read it already; it points some aspects of the intelligent design argument overlooked by many in this article, which is the beginnings of a decent debate carried on in later blogs as well; it's updated pretty often. You can ignore the Darwinist rubbish; it has been thoroughly refuted long ago and a waste of time now. No scholars take it seriously any more. They've invented new handwaves.

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Thank you for the blog Picarro. It is very extensive -can you post one (or 10) points from it? I lack the time to read all the entries right now.

You're welcome, and there are a number of blogs with discussion among genuine scientists, not the assorted sexual deviants and their friends among those who prayed for ponies when they were 10 and got life long butt hurts when God didn't indulge their every whims n stuff we get here. When I get time I'll post some excerpts; many of the are quite long and many points are made..

 

[Hollie]

It's interesting that the more excitable of the supernaturalists will hope to defend their supernatural creation views with pointing out mixed results of the very early Miller-Urey experiment while hoping to ignore more recent science exploration.

As the supernaturalists would have it, all of science is one, global conspiracy intended to refute a 6,000 year old planet and the rest of history being a literal rendering of biblical tales and fables.

New Szostak protocell is closest approximation to origin of life and Darwinian evolution so far

pandasthumb.org

Origin of life researcher and Nobel Prize winner Jack Szostak has made an important step towards creating a prebiotically plausible protocell (prebiotic implies that it did not originate from pre-existing forms of life, but its components could have self-assembled from raw materials available under physical and chemical conditions of the early earth). The protocell is a fatty acid vesicle, which is a simpler form of a cell membrane, in which RNA replication occurs autonomously without the help of enzymes. The results have been published in Science Nov 29 2013.

This is the first time that nonenzymatic RNA copying succeeded inside a fatty acid vesicle. The big obstacle has always been that magnesium ion Mg2+ was necessary for RNA copying, but two negative side-effects of high Mg2+ levels frustrated success. Firstly, high Mg2+ levels break down the simple, fatty acid membranes that probably surrounded the first living cells. Secondly, Mg2+ catalyses degradation of single-stranded RNA. After a long trial-and-error process, Szostak et al. discovered that citrate removes these two side-effects. Citrate efficiently protects fatty acid membranes from the disruptive effects of high Mg2+ ion concentrations, while both allowing RNA copying and protecting single-stranded RNA from Mg2+-catalyzed degradation.

 

[Picaro]

Hollie just made more of a case for intelligent design, but isn't bright enough or knows enough to notice. She should take some logic courses and an intro to empirical methodologies so she can add to these discussions eventually instead of just trolling and sniveling.

 

[Hollie]

Hollie just made more of a case for intelligent design, but isn't bright enough or knows enough to notice. She should take some logic courses and an intro to empirical methodologies so she can add to these discussions eventually instead of just trolling and sniveling.

Hollie can see you're angry and emotive but supernatural creationism had no part in the referenced link.

Hollie can't help but notice how reactive the supernatural creationists become when their gods are diminished.
All the gods that mankind has created were designed to explain natural phenomenon not understood. That's why all of the previously configured gods have been abandoned.

Not so long ago in human history, it was impossible to conceive of a world not managed/controlled by one or more gods, and now, it is apparent that the gods don't control anything we can identify. Not so long ago, It was inconceivable that there were not angels pushing the planets and the gods opened flowers and so on-- but now it is natural to know that these things have non-divine underpinnings. We are evolving! And we are evolving away from the superstition based tenets of religious dogma

 

[Newtonian]

Hollie just made more of a case for intelligent design, but isn't bright enough or knows enough to notice. She should take some logic courses and an intro to empirical methodologies so she can add to these discussions eventually instead of just trolling and sniveling.

True.

A discussion of how the 20 proteins required for life go into that protocell would be interesting though!

 

[Silver Cat]

Hollie just made more of a case for intelligent design, but isn't bright enough or knows enough to notice. She should take some logic courses and an intro to empirical methodologies so she can add to these discussions eventually instead of just trolling and sniveling.

True.

A discussion of how the 20 proteins required for life go into that protocell would be interesting though!

Actually, the simpliest form of life don't need proteins at all.