Open letter published to fight "Cancel Culture"

What a disappointing cop out.

[The] heads of organizations are ousted for what are sometimes just clumsy mistakes. Whatever the arguments around each particular incident, the result has been to steadily narrow the boundaries of what can be said without the threat of reprisal. We are already paying the price in greater risk aversion among writers, artists, and journalists who fear for their livelihoods if they depart from the consensus, or even lack sufficient zeal in agreement.

This stifling atmosphere will ultimately harm the most vital causes of our time. The restriction of debate, whether by a repressive government or an intolerant society, invariably hurts those who lack power and makes everyone less capable of democratic participation. The way to defeat bad ideas is by exposure, argument, and persuasion, not by trying to silence or wish them away. We refuse any false choice between justice and freedom, which cannot exist without each other. As writers we need a culture that leaves us room for experimentation, risk taking, and even mistakes. We need to preserve the possibility of good-faith disagreement without dire professional consequences. If we won’t defend the very thing on which our work depends, we shouldn’t expect the public or the state to defend it for us.

A black youth speaking out against the daily abuse he's facing at the hands of the lynch mob in blue will learn soon enough what it really means to be "canceled".

Those who lack power have always been canceled upon speaking out and daring to disagree. Ask any woman speaking out against harassment at the workplace. But that's not what occasioned this letter. What occasioned this letter was, say, a NYT editor resigning for letting through Tom Cotton's epic call for civil war to be published on the pages of the NYT. As it turned out, that editor didn't even read the piece, and didn't do his job, properly. So, now that Whitey is being taken to account, the whining starts, and the usual suspects join in.

Of course, it all depends on the quality of the argument brought forward for each cancellation, including the conclusions drawn. But the authors wouldn't have any of this, they breezily dismiss the very basis for their own arguments and go on virtue signaling and resolutely grab the victim card. Evidence? Naw, self-proclaimed victims ... of sumpthin' don't need no eff'n evidence.

There is none, not for the allegedly narrowing "boundaries of what can be said" - arguably that's the opposite of the truth - and also none for any "price in [the form of] greater risk aversion among writers". There was never greater freedom for women to speak out than exists now, neither for gays, and even trans people speak out. On the downside, some White supremacist mouth-breathers and similar fascists have their speaking gigs canceled. Of course, that is then presented as "suppressing speech", when, quite plainly, it is not. There is the old "false dichotomy" gamble again, either every venue needs to be open to everybody, no matter how odious and contemptible, or speech is being suppressed, and it's content unknowable. This is, of course, ludicrous in its interested simplicity, not least because these gigs are being canceled exactly BECAUSE the contents are well known in advance. There is an argument to be made that society can, and probably should, protect itself against normalizing degrading and hate speech, the effects of which - as usual - fall on the most vulnerable and powerless. Not that you'd hear a single word about these from the honorable letter writers.

The biggest blooper comes in the most high-brow proclamation of the letter writers' determined refusal to accept the "false choice between justice and freedom, which cannot exist without each other." There is no such false choice presented. What the good folks behind the letter omit, of course, is that both justice and freedom rest on a set of rules followed by all, because without following rules protective of the freedoms of others, and the most vulnerable in particular, freedom is just as dead as is justice. Societal haggling over what these rules are, or should be, is as old as humankind. It's messy, runs into dead ends, and occasionally creates collateral damage. However, these hagglings themselves are, at their core, exercises of freedom of speech, which the brave letter writers in their staggering simplicity also omit.
 
Deciding you don't want to purchase the work of someone you disagree with is not censorship.

Now if the government decides to not allow her to speak, then I'll join her.

Calling for companies to fire someone because you disagree with them is, it just isn't government censorship.

It's petty and cruel, especially over things like words a person says.
You mean like the King County detective who posted the "All Lives Splatter" meme on facebook and is currently on administrative leave pending an internal investigation"?

Honestly I'd be very suprised if anything other than him being written up happens, however if law enforcement officers/detectives have no qualms about displaying their bias in this manner, how can you ever trust them to not be biased in their enforcement or administration of the law? That's what the problem is and those individuals who either don't know any better or don't care, don't have the necessary qualities to work in law enforcement, in my opinion.

So you want autonomous robots working in law enforcement?

People will always have biases, unless you start making these....

th

When you are ignorant enough to make your biases known in public it leads to one questioning your rational thinking.

If as a detective you are not able to understand why a biased opinion may hurt your ability to do your job, then.........well.

So again, you want robots.

I want people who are able to think and think through the repercussions of their actions.
And tou want to REDUCE police funding? Because people who think cost more money.
 
Deciding you don't want to purchase the work of someone you disagree with is not censorship.

Now if the government decides to not allow her to speak, then I'll join her.

Calling for companies to fire someone because you disagree with them is, it just isn't government censorship.

It's petty and cruel, especially over things like words a person says.

People have always let a company know why they will or will not buy their products.

It's why you never saw "Coca-Cola presents Lenny Bruce".

The thing is today a much smaller percentage of the population can exert undue influence beyond their numbers.

When that loan company fired the mother of the cop in Georgia, no one said they would stop using the mortgage company if she was still working there.

They never even published what she said that was so offensive, they just hid their twitter behind the approval wall and ran and hid.

They were trying to avoid the possibility of an ugly scene in the workplace. Agree or disagree does an employer have that right?

They may have the right to fire her, but by doing so in the way they did they have basically made it impossible for her to be hired by anyone else. That should be treated as libel/slander and they should be sued, to at least force them to admit exactly why they fired her and what she did.

Also, just because you have the right to do something doesn't make it right.

All she supposedly did was defend her step son.

I hope you get fired one day for something this stupid, you gutless hack.

NO, just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you should or have to do it. That's not really the discussion though.

Our rights also come with negative aspects. The argument is that they are still better than the alternative.

As I retire in the 24th my employer better get busy.

You only answered one of my statements.

If she feels she has been wronged she has the right to sue. People have done that many times.

typical dodge answer.

You said they should be sued. I said she has that right. Did you want me to disagree?

Yet you think its OK for companies to fire people like this, not legal, OK.

It's amazing how far SJW twits like you will go to dodge answering things directly, you pussy.
 
Free Speech comes with possible repercussions. It's a part of free speech.
Like Obama, Warren, Sanders, Rushdie, Chomsky, Harris, and other liberals I've quoted on this thread, I think the "repercussions" should be defeat in the arena of ideas, not having your career and/or business and/or life destroyed.

I believe strongly in the liberal interpretation of freedom of expression, not the authoritarian interpretation.
 
Be careful what you hate, for you will become it.
And leftist have fulfilled this saying to it's fullest.
The largest leftist group "ANIFA" - are literally dictionary definition of fascism.
They claim freedom for the people... but only their people. Only if you agree with them. Which is also totalitarianism. And that will get uglier and uglier as time goes by.
And we see that clearly today. CHOP or CHAZ...whatever... is a great example of the group getting worse by the day. And they turned their little area into exactly everything they hate.
It started with the left wanting to ban speakers they didn't like on campuses... and grew to people in total chaos attacking people and property for no clear reason.
 
Thank goodness. It's about time some well-known voices spoke out against "Cancel Culture".


The letter addressed the nationwide Black Lives Matter protests and calls to defund the police — acknowledging that the demands are over due while warning against cancel culture and being intolerant of differences.

“But this needed reckoning has also intensified a new set of moral attitudes and political commitments that tend to weaken our norms of open debate and toleration of differences in favor of ideological conformity,” the letter read. “The democratic inclusion we want can be achieved only if we speak out against the intolerant climate that has set in on all sides.”

The letter warned that liberals are forming their own version of censorship, one that President Donald Trump and “right-wing demagogues” thrive off of.


“This stifling atmosphere will ultimately harm the most vital causes of our time,” the letter added. “The restriction of debate, whether by a repressive government or an intolerant society, invariably hurts those who lack power and makes everyone less capable of democratic participation.”

srp99F0.gif

e111c1c11d4b5b9aaed63b03a4da25bb.jpg
STFU, you fence straddling sack of shit. You are not even as credible as all the other "virtue signaling" douchebags that are afraid of offending but will offend if it's politically expedient. You are a sickening example of someone that wants to pretend that they empathize with the BLM and wants to thrust their puny fists against the cyber wall of "equality" but claim "OH WAIT!! There is a limit!!!"

Go fuck yourself, you stupid sack of shit. I once thought you had some common sense even if I didn't agree with you.... but now I see you as a "checks the way the political wind blows" piece of shit. Congrats on the loss of credibility.
 
Thank goodness. It's about time some well-known voices spoke out against "Cancel Culture".


The letter addressed the nationwide Black Lives Matter protests and calls to defund the police — acknowledging that the demands are over due while warning against cancel culture and being intolerant of differences.

“But this needed reckoning has also intensified a new set of moral attitudes and political commitments that tend to weaken our norms of open debate and toleration of differences in favor of ideological conformity,” the letter read. “The democratic inclusion we want can be achieved only if we speak out against the intolerant climate that has set in on all sides.”

The letter warned that liberals are forming their own version of censorship, one that President Donald Trump and “right-wing demagogues” thrive off of.


“This stifling atmosphere will ultimately harm the most vital causes of our time,” the letter added. “The restriction of debate, whether by a repressive government or an intolerant society, invariably hurts those who lack power and makes everyone less capable of democratic participation.”

srp99F0.gif

e111c1c11d4b5b9aaed63b03a4da25bb.jpg
STFU, you fence straddling sack of shit. You are not even as credible as all the other "virtue signaling" douchebags that are afraid of offending but will offend if it's politically expedient. You are a sickening example of someone that wants to pretend that they empathize with the BLM and wants to thrust their puny fists against the cyber wall of "equality" but claim "OH WAIT!! There is a limit!!!"

Go fuck yourself, you stupid sack of shit. I once thought you had some common sense even if I didn't agree with you.... but now I see you as a "checks the way the political wind blows" piece of shit. Congrats on the loss of credibility.
:laugh:
 
Deciding you don't want to purchase the work of someone you disagree with is not censorship.

Now if the government decides to not allow her to speak, then I'll join her.

Calling for companies to fire someone because you disagree with them is, it just isn't government censorship.

It's petty and cruel, especially over things like words a person says.
You mean like the King County detective who posted the "All Lives Splatter" meme on facebook and is currently on administrative leave pending an internal investigation"?

Honestly I'd be very suprised if anything other than him being written up happens, however if law enforcement officers/detectives have no qualms about displaying their bias in this manner, how can you ever trust them to not be biased in their enforcement or administration of the law? That's what the problem is and those individuals who either don't know any better or don't care, don't have the necessary qualities to work in law enforcement, in my opinion.

So you want autonomous robots working in law enforcement?

People will always have biases, unless you start making these....

th

When you are ignorant enough to make your biases known in public it leads to one questioning your rational thinking.

If as a detective you are not able to understand why a biased opinion may hurt your ability to do your job, then.........well.

So again, you want robots.

I want people who are able to think and think through the repercussions of their actions.
And tou want to REDUCE police funding? Because people who think cost more money.

Yes, I want to reduce police funding and put it where it would work better. Like mental health responders. But that is off topic.
 
Free Speech comes with possible repercussions. It's a part of free speech.
Like Obama, Warren, Sanders, Rushdie, Chomsky, Harris, and other liberals I've quoted on this thread, I think the "repercussions" should be defeat in the arena of ideas, not having your career and/or business and/or life destroyed.

I believe strongly in the liberal interpretation of freedom of expression, not the authoritarian interpretation.

What an employer decides is best for their business is up to them.
 
I never thought I would see the day when the phrase "all lives matter" is deemed reprehensable.

The left, folks. There it is.

Let's put it another way. Let's say at the Holocaust Rememberance, we say, All Lives Matter, even those who were killed fighting for the Wehrmacht.

Get an idea of how stupid that sounds now?
 
Free Speech comes with possible repercussions. It's a part of free speech.
Like Obama, Warren, Sanders, Rushdie, Chomsky, Harris, and other liberals I've quoted on this thread, I think the "repercussions" should be defeat in the arena of ideas, not having your career and/or business and/or life destroyed.

I believe strongly in the liberal interpretation of freedom of expression, not the authoritarian interpretation.

What an employer decides is best for their business is up to them.
Yes.

Regardless, my agreement with Obama, Warren, Sanders, Rushdie, Chomsky and Harris stands. Real Liberalism.
 
Calling for companies to fire someone because you disagree with them is, it just isn't government censorship.

It's petty and cruel, especially over things like words a person says.

I find it hilarious you think that it's usually just fine if a company fires someone for any other reason, but MAN, if they fire some bigot, it's the worst thing ever.
 
Free Speech comes with possible repercussions. It's a part of free speech.
Like Obama, Warren, Sanders, Rushdie, Chomsky, Harris, and other liberals I've quoted on this thread, I think the "repercussions" should be defeat in the arena of ideas, not having your career and/or business and/or life destroyed.

I believe strongly in the liberal interpretation of freedom of expression, not the authoritarian interpretation.

What an employer decides is best for their business is up to them.
Yes.

Regardless, my agreement with Obama, Warren, Sanders, Rushdie, Chomsky and Harris stands. Real Liberalism.

Outside of perhaps Sanders there isn't much liberalism in your list.

To note....in the old days in Chicago Obama worked to hurt banks that didn't abide by his ideas.
 
Factually false
Because - math.

Romney got 47% of the vote. Trump got 46% of the vote.
Romney got 59% of the white vote. Trump got 57% of the white vote.

Math.

Blacks turned out at a 66% participation rate in 2012, but only 59% in 2016.

Math.

The LIbertarians got 1% of the vote in 2012, and the Greens got 0.3%
In 2016, Libertarians got 3% of the vote and Greens to 1%.

Math.

Now go fuck off, stupid.
 
That is an interesting theory, but the poll numbers do not support it, particularly given the popular vote vs to EC numbers.

Trump may have had the same number of white votes, but DIFFERENT people voted for Trump vs Romney.

What REALLY happened is Trump won the right combination of states, getting the rust-belt blue collar white vote Romney couldn't carry.

Actually, what happened was black folks stayed home, and a lot of liberal minded white people voted for 3rd parties.

Trump didn't get any more voters than Romney did... I guess the bigots were happier with Trump, but the votes were still the same.
 
No. People don't want to be destroyed without actually being countered.

Example:

"all lives matter"

"You racist, sexist, homophobic, xenomorph! Fire him"

Then, it actually happens.

Want proof?

You mean when you are in a public place, and we know we have a legitimate concern, if you use the language of the bigots.


"All Lives" aren't the problem here. All Lives are not the ones being snuffed out by thug cops who should have been fired years ago.
 
You know what's the funniest (in a grim sense) thing about all this is? As usual, the reactionary bigots cannot contain themselves, and put the exclusionary principle to work, such as proclaiming those with whom they disagree not to be REAL ... (Americans, conservatives, liberals, or what have you). Showing them the door is never far behind.

It's as predictable as sunrise.
 
What a disappointing cop out.

[The] heads of organizations are ousted for what are sometimes just clumsy mistakes. Whatever the arguments around each particular incident, the result has been to steadily narrow the boundaries of what can be said without the threat of reprisal. We are already paying the price in greater risk aversion among writers, artists, and journalists who fear for their livelihoods if they depart from the consensus, or even lack sufficient zeal in agreement.​
This stifling atmosphere will ultimately harm the most vital causes of our time. The restriction of debate, whether by a repressive government or an intolerant society, invariably hurts those who lack power and makes everyone less capable of democratic participation. The way to defeat bad ideas is by exposure, argument, and persuasion, not by trying to silence or wish them away. We refuse any false choice between justice and freedom, which cannot exist without each other. As writers we need a culture that leaves us room for experimentation, risk taking, and even mistakes. We need to preserve the possibility of good-faith disagreement without dire professional consequences. If we won’t defend the very thing on which our work depends, we shouldn’t expect the public or the state to defend it for us.

A black youth speaking out against the daily abuse he's facing at the hands of the lynch mob in blue will learn soon enough what it really means to be "canceled".

Those who lack power have always been canceled upon speaking out and daring to disagree. Ask any woman speaking out against harassment at the workplace. But that's not what occasioned this letter. What occasioned this letter was, say, a NYT editor resigning for letting through Tom Cotton's epic call for civil war to be published on the pages of the NYT. As it turned out, that editor didn't even read the piece, and didn't do his job, properly. So, now that Whitey is being taken to account, the whining starts, and the usual suspects join in.

Of course, it all depends on the quality of the argument brought forward for each cancellation, including the conclusions drawn. But the authors wouldn't have any of this, they breezily dismiss the very basis for their own arguments and go on virtue signaling and resolutely grab the victim card. Evidence? Naw, self-proclaimed victims ... of sumpthin' don't need no eff'n evidence.

There is none, not for the allegedly narrowing "boundaries of what can be said" - arguably that's the opposite of the truth - and also none for any "price in [the form of] greater risk aversion among writers". There was never greater freedom for women to speak out than exists now, neither for gays, and even trans people speak out. On the downside, some White supremacist mouth-breathers and similar fascists have their speaking gigs canceled. Of course, that is then presented as "suppressing speech", when, quite plainly, it is not. There is the old "false dichotomy" gamble again, either every venue needs to be open to everybody, no matter how odious and contemptible, or speech is being suppressed, and it's content unknowable. This is, of course, ludicrous in its interested simplicity, not least because these gigs are being canceled exactly BECAUSE the contents are well known in advance. There is an argument to be made that society can, and probably should, protect itself against normalizing degrading and hate speech, the effects of which - as usual - fall on the most vulnerable and powerless. Not that you'd hear a single word about these from the honorable letter writers.

The biggest blooper comes in the most high-brow proclamation of the letter writers' determined refusal to accept the "false choice between justice and freedom, which cannot exist without each other." There is no such false choice presented. What the good folks behind the letter omit, of course, is that both justice and freedom rest on a set of rules followed by all, because without following rules protective of the freedoms of others, and the most vulnerable in particular, freedom is just as dead as is justice. Societal haggling over what these rules are, or should be, is as old as humankind. It's messy, runs into dead ends, and occasionally creates collateral damage. However, these hagglings themselves are, at their core, exercises of freedom of speech, which the brave letter writers in their staggering simplicity also omit.
Wow.

Wasting time haggling over what is "acceptable" speech and what is not "acceptable" speech defeats the very purpose of speech itself.

Making certain words or expressions taboo for the sole purpose of protecting the feelings of certain groups and calling it "hate speech" can do nothing but DISCOURAGE discourse.

It is that bullshit that has lead us down the road we are currently on, were free speech is getting shit on and slammed in the trashcan.

Example:


https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/07/tech/facebook-civil-rights-meeting/index.html
 
They may have the right to fire her, but by doing so in the way they did they have basically made it impossible for her to be hired by anyone else. That should be treated as libel/slander and they should be sued, to at least force them to admit exactly why they fired her and what she did.

Also, just because you have the right to do something doesn't make it right.

All she supposedly did was defend her step son.

I hope you get fired one day for something this stupid, you gutless hack.

This woman did more than defend her thug cop son. She violated company policies.
 
No. People don't want to be destroyed without actually being countered.

Example:

"all lives matter"

"You racist, sexist, homophobic, xenomorph! Fire him"

Then, it actually happens.

Want proof?

You mean when you are in a public place, and we know we have a legitimate concern, if you use the language of the bigots.


"All Lives" aren't the problem here. All Lives are not the ones being snuffed out by thug cops who should have been fired years ago.
The statistics prove you completely wrong.

So, is it bigoted to speak the truth?

I think you've hit on a good point. I don't think you intended to, but did nonetheless.

Is the truth bigoted?
 

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