OORAH Rumsfeld!

[USMCDevilDog]

a well deserved oorah to Rumsfeld!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060829/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/rumsfeld_23

Rumsfeld lashes out at Bush's critics By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer
25 minutes ago



Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Tuesday the world faces "a new type of fascism" and likened critics of the U.S. war strategy to those who tried to appease the Nazis.

In unusually explicit terms, Rumsfeld portrayed the Bush administration's critics as suffering from "moral or intellectual confusion" about what threatens the nation's security. His remarks amounted to one of his most pointed defenses of President Bush' war policies and was among his toughest attacks on the president's critics.

Speaking to several thousand veterans at the American Legion's national convention, Rumsfeld recited what he called the lessons of history, including the failure to confront Hitler in the 1930s. He quoted Winston Churchill as observing that trying to accommodate Hitler was "a bit like feeding a crocodile, hoping it would eat you last."

"I recount this history because once again we face similar challenges in efforts to confront the rising threat of a new type of fascism," he said.

"Can we truly afford to believe that somehow, some way, vicious extremists can be appeased?" he asked.

"Can we truly afford to return to the destructive view that America — not the enemy — is the real source of the world's troubles?"

Rumsfeld spoke to the American Legion as part of a coordinated White House strategy, in advance of the fifth anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, to take the offensive against administration critics at a time of doubt about the future of Iraq and growing calls to withdraw U.S. troops.

Rumsfeld recalled a string of recent terrorist attacks, from 9/11 to deadly bombings in Bali, London and Madrid, and said it should be obvious to anyone that terrorists must be confronted, not appeased.

"But some seem not to have learned history's lessons," he said, adding that part of the problem is that the American news media have tended to emphasize the negative rather than the positive.

He said, for example, that more media attention was given to U.S. soldiers' abuse of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib than to the fact that Sgt. 1st Class Paul Ray Smith received the Medal of Honor.

He did acknowledge that the U.S. military has its own "bad actors — the ones who dominate the headlines today — who don't live up to the standards of the oath and of our country." But he added that they are a small percentage of the hundreds of thousands of troops who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"Those who know the truth need to speak out against these kinds of myths and lies and distortions being told about our troops and about our country," he said.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was addressing the American Legion convention later Tuesday, and Bush is scheduled to speak here later in the week. On Monday, Vice President Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld made separate addresses to the national convention of the Veterans of Foreign Wars in Reno, Nev.

Rumsfeld made similar arguments in Reno about doubters of the administration's approach to fighting terrorism, saying too many in this country want to "blame America first" and ignore the enemy.

Rumsfeld's remarks ignited angry rebukes from Democrats.

"It's a political rant to cover up his incompetence," said Sen. Jack Reed (news, bio, voting record), D-R.I., a former Army officer and member of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Reed said he took particular exception to the implication that critics of Pentagon policies are unpatriotic, citing "scores of patriotic Americans of both parties who are highly critical of his handling of the Department of Defense."

Rep. John Murtha (news, bio, voting record), the hawkish Pennsylvania Democrat who voted in favor of the war but recently called for troops to withdraw, said in a statement: "It's interesting to me that they generalize the support for the war. They're not realistic with the fact that there's no progress."

Sen. Christopher Dodd (news, bio, voting record), D-Conn., chimed in that Rumsfeld's remarks were trying to "shoot the messenger" rather than examine failed policy.

Rumsfeld defended the war in Iraq, saying that while U.S. military tactics have changed as conditions on the ground have changed, the administration's war strategy has remained constant: "to empower the Iraqi people to defend, govern and rebuild their own country."

In arguing against giving up in Iraq, he said people should know from history that wars are never easy.

"You know from experience that in every war — personally — there have been mistakes and setbacks and casualties," he said. "War is," as Clemenceau said, `A series of catastrophes that results in victory."

 

[Hagbard Celine]

Extremist rhetoric designed to rouse a mob mentality at a military pep-rally, nothing more. I guess when the veterans liked something Rumsfeld said they clapped their stumps together in support of the policies that got them so much.

Blaming the media for bad administrative policies is dumb.

 

[Stephanie]

Extremist rhetoric designed to rouse a mob mentality at a military pep-rally, nothing more. I guess when the veterans liked something Rumsfeld said they clapped their stumps together in support of the policies that got them so much.

Blaming the media for bad administrative policies is dumb.

I am speechless and absolutely disgusted, that you can write something as hateful as that about our Veterans...
Just so you can make a political point..

You've just proved yourself to be a very small minded, pathetic individual...

 

[dmp]

Extremist rhetoric designed to rouse a mob mentality at a military pep-rally, nothing more. I guess when the veterans liked something Rumsfeld said they clapped their stumps together in support of the policies that got them so much.

Blaming the media for bad administrative policies is dumb.

You are a fool.

 

[USMCDevilDog]

Extremist rhetoric designed to rouse a mob mentality at a military pep-rally, nothing more. I guess when the veterans liked something Rumsfeld said they clapped their stumps together in support of the policies that got them so much.

Blaming the media for bad administrative policies is dumb.

You're a fucking dumbass. Rot in hell dickhead. :fu2:

 

[Annie]

Good for Rumsfeld. Bush needs to get out there and make the connections too! They are worse than the Nazis and not a hard case to make.

 

[Gunny]

Extremist rhetoric designed to rouse a mob mentality at a military pep-rally, nothing more. I guess when the veterans liked something Rumsfeld said they clapped their stumps together in support of the policies that got them so much.

Blaming the media for bad administrative policies is dumb.

A bit overboard, aren't you?

I'd say what the vets liked is what conservatives want more of ..... Republicans abandoning this so-called "higher moral ground" and slam-dunking the stupidity and dishonesty of the left and its accusations.

 

[GeeWhiz]

"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty."
"We must remember always that accusation is not proof, and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law.
"We will not walk in fear - one, of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of un-reason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men;
"Not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate, and to defend causes that were - for the moment - unpopular." - Edward Murrow

That, about which Mr. Rumsfeld is confused is simply this: This is a Democracy. Still. Sometimes just barely. And, as such, all voices count - not just his. Had he or his president perhaps proven any of their prior claims of omniscience - about Osama Bin Laden’s plans five years ago, about Saddam Hussein’s weapons four years ago, about Hurricane Katrina’s impact one year ago - we all might be able to swallow hard, and accept their "omniscience" as a bearable, even useful recipe, of fact, plus ego. But, to date, this government has proved little besides its own arrogance, and its own hubris...- Keith Olbermann

Olbermann and Murrow blows Rummy the Dummy's whining little speech out of the waters.

 

[CSM]

"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty."
"We must remember always that accusation is not proof, and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law.
"We will not walk in fear - one, of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of un-reason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men;
"Not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate, and to defend causes that were - for the moment - unpopular." - Edward Murrow

That, about which Mr. Rumsfeld is confused is simply this: This is a Democracy. Still. Sometimes just barely. And, as such, all voices count - not just his. Had he or his president perhaps proven any of their prior claims of omniscience - about Osama Bin Laden’s plans five years ago, about Saddam Hussein’s weapons four years ago, about Hurricane Katrina’s impact one year ago - we all might be able to swallow hard, and accept their "omniscience" as a bearable, even useful recipe, of fact, plus ego. But, to date, this government has proved little besides its own arrogance, and its own hubris...- Keith Olbermann

Olbermann and Murrow blows Rummy the Dummy's whining little speech out of the waters.

It is always easier to be the critic than to be the innovator or leader. After all, hindsight is always 20/20. If there is any whining going on its from your brand of hero.

 

[Bonnie]

Good for Rumsfeld. Bush needs to get out there and make the connections too! They are worse than the Nazis and not a hard case to make.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hagbard Celine]

The comment I made above has struck a nerve with ya'll because it has truth in it. We have a volunteer military full of people who pledge undying support for bad policies that result in physical harm and death being inflicted upon themselves all in the name of some warped sense of patriotism riding on the assumption that any form of dissent, even when it has to do with minor military management issues (like getting body armor to the troops), is regarded as "un-patriotic." It's ridiculous, jingo-istic lemming mentality. "Stay the course" has been the mantra for this administration since the initial invasion in 2003 and since then over 2,500 US casualties have occurred, not to mention uncounted maimings resulting in the permanent disablement of perfectly healthy men and women. And we know the administration has mis-managed military operations from the beginning, whether is was the amount of troops needed to successfully invade and take control of Iraq or inadequate body and vehicle armor for troops or even prisoner interrogation techniques. So the administration hawks call people who want to plan an end to the war "cut-and-runners" and compares them to Nazi-appeasers and the military buys it hook, line and sinker, even though it means they'll have to stay over in that hell-hole and keep getting blown-up for years to come with no end in sight. How do you explain that?

 

[Bonnie]

The comment I made above has struck a nerve with ya'll because it has truth in it. We have a volunteer military full of people who pledge undying support for bad policies that result in physical harm and death being inflicted upon themselves all in the name of some warped sense of patriotism riding on the assumption that any form of dissent, even when it has to do with minor military management issues (like getting body armor to the troops), is regarded as "un-patriotic." It's ridiculous, jingo-istic lemming mentality. "Stay the course" has been the mantra for this administration since the initial invasion in 2003 and since then over 2,500 US casualties have occurred, not to mention uncounted maimings resulting in the permanent disablement of perfectly healthy men and women. And we know the administration has mis-managed military operations from the beginning, whether is was the amount of troops needed to successfully invade and take control of Iraq or inadequate body and vehicle armor for troops or even prisoner interrogation techniques. So the administration hawks call people who want to plan an end to the war "cut-and-runners" and compares them to Nazi-appeasers and the military buys it hook, line and sinker, even though it means they'll have to stay over in that hell-hole and keep getting blown-up for years to come with no end in sight. How do you explain that?

First of all it's much more than mild dissent over not not enough troops and body armour...What it really is is hatred for Bush for various other reasons like GAY rights, abortion
on Demand at any stage of pregnancy paid for by tax payers no questions asked, all forms of religious expression removed from the public and relegated to churches and basements, communistic unabashed redistribution of wealth, no military used under any circumstances to fight terrorism,in fact lets dismantle our military and spend the money on welfare, in fact lets just give away our sovereignty over the the GREAT UN after all we must understand terrorists and pull out of all the Mideast IMMEDIATELY so as to APPEASE the terrorist KILLERS, and say FUCK ISRAEL, Bush stole the election in 2000 they say.....And so on So lets get that straight from the get go.


Secondly I'm going to ask you to tell us HOW MANY TIMES DID BUSH SAY: THIS WAR WILL TAKE A LONG TIME, IT WON'T END QUICKLY AND IT WON'T BE EASY..And how many times did Rumsfeld say that, and how many times did Colin Powell say that? And how many times did Dr Rice say that? And how many times did Tony Blair say that?? And how many times did the generals say that??????
And the American People said OKAY Mr President We ARE WITH YOU!!!!!!!! Congress/Senate said MR President we are With YOU Till the end!! Yes even the liberal ones who now are being COWARDS TO SAVE THEIR OWN hides with their stupid coward constituencies!!!!!!!!!! What part of that did you and others not understand!!

 

[trobinett]

First of all it's much more than mild dissent over not not enough troops and body armour...What it really is is hatred for Bush for various other reasons like GAY rights, abortion
on Demand at any stage of pregnancy paid for by tax payers no questions asked, all forms of religious expression removed from the public and relegated to churches and basements, communistic unabashed redistribution of wealth, no military used under any circumstances to fight terrorism,in fact lets dismantle our military and spend the money on welfare, in fact lets just give away our sovereignty over the the GREAT UN after all we must understand terrorists and pull out of all the Mideast IMMEDIATELY so as to APPEASE the terrorist KILLERS, and say FUCK ISRAEL, Bush stole the election in 2000 they say.....And so on So lets get that straight from the get go.


Secondly I'm going to ask you to tell us HOW MANY TIMES DID BUSH SAY: THIS WAR WILL TAKE A LONG TIME, IT WON'T END QUICKLY AND IT WON'T BE EASY..And how many times did Rumsfeld say that, and how many times did Colin Powell say that? And how many times did Dr Rice say that? And how many times did Tony Blair say that?? And how many times did the generals say that??????
And the American People said OKAY Mr President We ARE WITH YOU!!!!!!!! Congress/Senate said MR President we are With YOU Till the end!! Yes even the liberal ones who now are being COWARDS TO SAVE THEIR OWN hides with their stupid coward constituencies!!!!!!!!!! What part of that did you and others not understand!!

All right Bonnie!!!

Haven't seen you this hot in sometime, good for ya girl.

Not to worry though, the left is committing suicide by bunga, and never forget that the world is round. A FACT that some on this board, and terrorist around the world should be worried about.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

First of all it's much more than mild dissent over not not enough troops and body armour...What it really is is hatred for Bush for various other reasons like GAY rights, abortion
on Demand at any stage of pregnancy paid for by tax payers no questions asked, all forms of religious expression removed from the public and relegated to churches and basements, communistic unabashed redistribution of wealth, no military used under any circumstances to fight terrorism

You're crazy. Nobody's asking for these things. This is an issue over Iraq policy--nothing else.

,in fact lets dismantle our military and spend the money on welfare, in fact lets just give away our sovereignty over the the GREAT UN after all we must understand terrorists and pull out of all the Mideast IMMEDIATELY so as to APPEASE the terrorist KILLERS, and say FUCK ISRAEL, Bush stole the election in 2000 they say.....And so on So lets get that straight from the get go.

More outrageous exaggeration. Are you done?

Secondly I'm going to ask you to tell us HOW MANY TIMES DID BUSH SAY: THIS WAR WILL TAKE A LONG TIME, IT WON'T END QUICKLY AND IT WON'T BE EASY..And how many times did Rumsfeld say that, and how many times did Colin Powell say that? And how many times did Dr Rice say that? And how many times did Tony Blair say that?? And how many times did the generals say that??????

You're right. Various Bush administration officials have said the war is going to be a long, hard road to hoe. But they've changed their tune since the initial invasion because since then, bungled management of military operations has resulted in the formation of a stout militia offensive against US forces and the original intention of the war (i.e. terrorism and the capture of Osama bin Laden, the leader of the largest and most dangerous terrorism network, Al-Qaeda) has been forgotten. Remember "mission accomplished" with Bush flying in on a jet fighter and wearing a pilot outfit and declaring an end to major combat operations? That was hardly a "this will be a long, drawn-out operation" statement.

And the American People said OKAY Mr President We ARE WITH YOU!!!!!!!! Congress/Senate said MR President we are With YOU Till the end!! Yes even the liberal ones who now are being COWARDS TO SAVE THEIR OWN hides with their stupid coward constituencies!!!!!!!!!! What part of that did you and others not understand!!

You've proven my point. People like you are so zealotous about the war that you can't be reasoned with. I'm a "coward" because I want to do exactly what the Bush administration said it was going to do in the first place--hand over control to the Iraqi government and end US military operations in Iraq. Yet, to date there has been no successfully implemented plan for victory, just more of the same. I'm a stupid coward admitting defeat because I want to successfully end the war. But Rummy, Bush and company are heroes because they want to extend the fighting for yet another year? Hardly.

 

[Bonnie]

You're crazy. Nobody's asking for these things. This is an issue over Iraq policy--nothing else.


More outrageous exaggeration. Are you done?


You're right. Various Bush administration officials have said the war is going to be a long, hard road to hoe. But they've changed their tune since the initial invasion because since then, bungled management of military operations has resulted in the formation of a stout militia offensive against US forces and the original intention of the war (i.e. terrorism and the capture of Osama bin Laden, the leader of the largest and most dangerous terrorism network, Al-Qaeda) has been forgotten. Remember "mission accomplished" with Bush flying in on a jet fighter and wearing a pilot outfit and declaring an end to major combat operations? That was hardly a "this will be a long, drawn-out operation" statement.


You've proven my point. People like you are so zealotous about the war that you can't be reasoned with. I'm a "coward" because I want to do exactly what the Bush administration said it was going to do in the first place--hand over control to the Iraqi government and end US military operations in Iraq. Yet, to date there has been no successfully implemented plan for victory, just more of the same. I'm a stupid coward admitting defeat because I want to successfully end the war. But Rummy, Bush and company are heroes because they want to extend the fighting for yet another year? Hardly.

If you really think that this hatred for Bush is really over the Iraq war then you head is up yout backside.

Sorry no zealotry here, I never said Bush was perfect, I never said this war has been fought perfectly, nor have I said no mistakes were made. Bush landed on a ship and said Mission Accomplished, big fuckin deal, that's petty bullshit on the part of dissenters, time to move on from that one. What Im saying is it is ridiculous to just leave Iraq when we are 80% close to having the Iraqis take control over thier own country..It makes no sense to have done what we did there and now just say okay time to leave. And if you doubt for a moment the hatred for Bush is not about this war but all the things I mentioned in my previous post then read these names from Stephanie's post.

Wanna talk Zealots??

Your government, on the basis of outrageous lies, is waging a murderous and utterly illegitimate war in Iraq, with other countries in their sights.

Your government is openly torturing people, and justifying it.

Your government puts people in jail on the merest suspicion, refusing them lawyers, and either holding them indefinitely or deporting them in the dead of night.


Your government is moving each day closer to a theocracy, where a narrow and hateful brand of Christian fundamentalism will rule.

Your government suppresses the science that doesn't fit its religious, political and economic agenda, forcing present and future generations to pay a terrible price.


Your government is moving to deny women here, and all over the world, the right to birth control and abortion.

Your government enforces a culture of greed, bigotry, intolerance and ignorance.

People look at all this and think of Hitler — and they are right to do so. The Bush regime is setting out to radically remake society very quickly, in a fascist way, and for generations to come. We must act now; the future is in the balance.

Millions and millions are deeply disturbed and outraged by this. They recognize the need for a vehicle to express this outrage, yet they cannot find it; politics as usual cannot meet the enormity of the challenge, and people sense this.

There is not going to be some magical "pendulum swing." People who steal elections and believe they're on a "mission from God" will not go without a fight.

There is not going to be some savior from the Democratic Party. This whole idea of putting our hopes and energies into "leaders" who tell us to seek common ground with fascists and religious fanatics is proving every day to be a disaster, and actually serves to demobilize people.

But silence and paralysis are NOT acceptable. That which you will not resist and mobilize to stop, you will learn — or be forced — to accept. There is no escaping it: the whole disastrous course of this Bush regime must be STOPPED. And we must take the responsibility to do it.

And there is a way. We are talking about something on a scale that can really make a huge change in this country and in the world. We need more than fighting Bush's outrages one at a time, constantly losing ground to the whole onslaught. We must, and can, aim to create a political situation where the Bush regime's program is repudiated, where Bush himself is driven from office, and where the whole direction he has been taking society is reversed. We, in our millions, must and can take responsibility to change the course of history.

Acting in this way, we join with and give support and heart to people all over the globe who so urgently need and want this regime to be stopped.

This will not be easy. If we speak the truth, they will try to silence us. If we act, they will try to stop us. But we speak for the majority, here and around the world, and as we get this going we are going to reach out to the people who have been so badly fooled by Bush and we are NOT going to stop.

The point is this: history is full of examples where people who had right on their side fought against tremendous odds and were victorious. And it is also full of examples of people passively hoping to wait it out, only to get swallowed up by a horror beyond what they ever imagined. The future is unwritten. WHICH ONE WE GET IS UP TO US.

Endorsers of the Call to Drive Out the Bush Regime Include:

Imam Talib Abdur-Rashid, Mosque of Islamic Brotherhood
James Abourezk
Mumia Abu-Jamal
ACT UP, NYC
Pam Africa
Vicente Alba, Laborers Union Local 108, New York
Allison Aimee
Aris Anagnos
Anti-Flag
Arab American Community Coalition
Carlos Arango, Director, Casa Aztlan*
Edward Asner
Axis of Justice
Rosa Ayala, Justice for Janitors*
Russell Banks
Father Luis Barrios, Iglesia San Romero de Las Americas, NYC
Rev. Willie Barrow, Women Connecting*
Ed Begley Jr.
Harry Belafonte
Medea Benjamin
Dave Berenson, Cleveland US Green Party
Michael Berg, anti-war activist
Jessica Blank, writer & actor
William Blum
Joan Bokaer, founder, Theocracy Watch
Blase Bokaer, author
Bob Bossie, SCJ, 8th Day Center for Justice*
Father Roy Bourgeois
St. Clair Bourne, filmmaker
Elombe Brath, Patrice Lumumba Coalition, NYC
Catharina Breinholt, musician with Nina Hagen
Carol Brightman, author of Total Insecurity
Dennis Brutus, Center for the Study of Human Rights
Gabriel Byrne
Campus Anti-War Network (CAN)
Rosemary Candelario, pro-choice activist
Tim Carpenter, Dir., Progressive Democrats of America
Chicago ADAPT
CHOICE USA
Ward Churchill
Margaret Cho
Ward Churchill
Citizens For Legitimate Government
Kate Clinton
David Cobb, 2004 Green Party Pres. Candidate
Code Pink: Women for Peace
Gerry Cohen, Hollywood Director
US Rep. John Conyers Jr.
Harry T. Cook II, Recor, St. Andrews Episcopal Church
Irwin Corey, comedian
Carlos Cornier, percussionist, Funkadesi, Old Town School of Folk
Barry Crimmins, Air America contributor & correspondent
Chris Crutcher, children's book author
Culture Clash
Charles W. Dahm, Pastor, St. Pius V, Chicago
Chris Daly, SF Board of Supervisors
DC Anti-War Network
Rev. Greg Dell, Broadway United Methodist Church
Democrats.com
John Densmore
Jesse Díaz Jr.
Diane DiPrima, beat poet
Carl Dix, Revolutionary Communist Party
Leonard Dominguez, Candidate for Cook County Commissioner, IL
Dominican Women's Development Center
Ariel Dorfman, writer
Tom Duane, NY State Senator
Michael Eric Dyson
Steve Earle
Niles Eldredge, curator of Natural History Museum
Edwin Ellis, President of Veterans for Peace, LA*
Daniel Ellsberg, author of The Pentagon Papers
Eve Ensler
Martin Espada, poet
Michelle Esrick, actress, filmmaker
Donelle Estey, Artists Against the War
Christian Ettinger, ex. producer of The Weather Underground
Jodie Evans, Code Pink
Samina Faheem Fundas, American Muslim Voice*
Nina Felshin, curator, writer
Lawrence Ferlinghetti
Ralph Fertig, president of Humanitarian Law Project
Rev. John Fife
Jane Fonda
Barbara Forrest, prof. Southeastern Louisiana Univ. (testified in Dover against intelligent design)
Francis Fox Piven
Michael Franti, musician
Aaron Freeman, comedian
reg e. Gaines, poet & playwright
Martin Garbus, attorney
Deborah Glick, NY State Assemblywoman
Global Justice and Peace Ministries, Riverside Church
Frances Goldin, literary agent
Bill Goodman, Center for Constitutional Rights
Sam Greenlee, filmmaker & poet
André Gregory, theater director
Andy Griggs, Exec. Board of United Teachers of LA
Jose Guerrero, artist & muralist, Chicago
Lawrence Guyot, former SNCC member and former Chairman of the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party
Nina Hagen, singer, "mother of punk"
Paul Haggis, film director, "Crash"
Haitian Coalition for Justice
Sam Hamill, Poets Against War*
Suheir Hammad, poet
Kathleen Hanna, Le Tigre
David Harris, writer, founder of The Resistance*
Stephen Hays, Board of Woodstock Film Festival
John Heard, actor
Jon Hendricks, artist
Jon Hendrix, jazz singer/lyricist
Hermandad Mexicana
Warren Hern, MD, MPH, PhD, Dir. Boulder Abortion Clinic
Eric Hilton, musician, Thievery Corporation
Hip Hop Caucus
Merle Hoffman
Rev. Robert M. Hollum, pastor, Lutheran Place
Dorothy Hoobler, author
Marie Howe, poet & writer
Impeach Bush Coalition
Mesha Monge Irizarry, Idriss Stelley Foundation
Abdeen Jabara, past pres., American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Com.*
Rev. Jesse L. Jackson
Ron Jacobs, writer
Bianca Jagger, actress & activist
Dahr Jamail, independent journalist
Pramila Jayapal, Exec. Dir., Hate Free Zone Washington
Alan Jones, Dean of Faculty, Pitzer College*
Bill T. Jones, choreographer
Rickie Lee Jones
Sarah Jones, poet & actor
Esther Kaplan, author of With God On Their Side
Brig. Gen. (ret) Janis Karpinski
Casey Kasem
Jeff Key, Iraq war veteran and writer, "The Eyes of Babylon"
Ali Khan, America Muslim Council
Margot Kidder, actress
C. Clark Kissinger
Frances Kissling, president, Catholics for a Free Choice*
Yuri Kochiyama
Rev. Earl Kooperkamp, St. Mary's Episcopal Church
Ron Kovic, author & Vietnam Veteran
Joyce Kozloff, artist
Jonathan Kozol
Reona Kumagai, Pres. of Princeton Students for Sensible Drug Policy
Jim Lafferty, Exec. Director of the NLG of LA
Ray Laforest, organizer DC 1707 AFSCME, member Pacifica National Board
Beth Lamont
Jessica Lange, actress
Lewis Lapham, former editor of Harpers
Mark Leno, CA State Assemblyman
Rabbi Michael Lerner, editor, Tikkun magazine
James Levin, co-director, Cleveland Festival of Arts & Technology (Ingenuity)
Philip Levine, poet, Pulitzer Prize winner
Simon Levy, dir., What I Heard About Iraq
Toby Devan Lewis
Bruce Lincoln, prof., History of Religion, Univ. of Chicago
Margarita Lopez, NY City Council Member
Alberto Lovera, Bolivian Circle New York
George Lois
Haki R. Madhubuti, publisher, Third World Press

Devorah Major, poet & novelist
Make the Road by Walking
Mike Malloy, syndicated radio talk show host
Lucinda Marshall, founder, Feminist Peace Network*
Bill Martin, philosopher
Bill Martinez, attorney, producer (Audioslave concert in Cuba)
Luis Matos, union organizer, 1199
Father Matthius, Pastor, St. Pius V, Chicago
Malachy McCourt, actor & author
US Rep. Cynthia McKinney
Peter McLaren, UCLA Prof.
Ellen McLaughlin, actress & playwright
Camilo Majia, conscientious objector
Rosie Mendez, New York City Council
Dave Meserve, Arcata, CA City Council member
Allen Michaan, owner, Grand Lake Theater, Oakland, CA
Carol Migden, CA State Senator
Carly Miller, Clothing of the American Mind
Mark Crispin Miller
Millions More Movement, Pittsburg/Antioch CA org.
Ross Markarimi
Bill Mitchell, co-founder of Gold Star Families for Peace*
Leon Mobley, musician
Alderman Joe Moore, Chicago's City Council
Tom Morello, Audioslave
Tracie Morris, poet
Viggo Mortensen
Andrew Mu-ana, Images Sal-n, East LA
Roger Mumford, Forefront Homes LLC
Andrew Munana, Images Salon
Steve Murphy, editor of Tales of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Cecil Murray, retired Minister First AME Church, LA
Craig Murray, former UK Ambassador to Uzbekistan
National Lawyers Guild, National Office
Amando Navarro, Chair of Ethnic Studies, UC Riverside
Network in Solidarity with the People of the Philippines
Bill Nevins
Northwestern College Feminists
Not In Our Name
Mike and Julie Nussbaum
Susan Nussbaum
Efia Nwangaza, national co-chair, Jericho Movement
Brian O'Leary, PhD, author, former astronaut
Bertell Ollman, prof., Dept. of Politics, NYU
R. Tomas Olmos, Pres., Mexican-American BA Found., LA County
Barbara Olshansky, Center for Constitutional Rights
E. Rendel Osburn, Southern Christian Leadership Foundation
Outernational
Chris Owens, Congressional candidate
US Rep. Major Owens
Ozomatli
Jose Padilla, exec. Dir., CA Rural Legal Assistance*
Christina Page, author of How The Pro-Choice Movement Saved America
Grace Paley, writer
Patrick Henry Democratic Club
Harvey Pekar, American Splendor cartoonist
Sean Penn
Bill Perkins, New York City Council
Rosalind Petchesky, author, Abortion and a Woman's Choice
Peter Phillips, Project Censored, Soc. Dept. Sonoma State Univ.
Jeremy Pikser, screenwriter, Bulworth
Harold Pinter
Sterling Plumpp, poet
Port Townsend Peace Movement
Kevin Powell, writer
Progressive Democrats of America
Francine Prose, novelist
Puerto Rican Nationalist Party – New York Branch
Queers for Economic Justice
Jerry Quickley, poet & playwright
Malik Rahim, New Orleans Community Organizer
Victor Toro Ramirez, activista en el Sur del Bronx
Michael Ratner, Center for Constitutional Rights*
Reach Hip Hop Coalition
Raghava Reddy, stem cell biologist, filmmaker
Maggie Renzi, filmmaker, producer
Eric Resnick, Gay Peopl's Chronicle* reporter
Allan Rich, screenwriter & actor
Walter Riley, lawyer
Boots Riley, The Coup
Scott Ritter, former UN weapons inspector
Dennis Rivera
Rhadames Rivera, 1199 SEIU Vice President
Stephen F. Rhode, Attorney
Joshua Rosenblum, Composer, Dir. of Bush is Bad
Mark Ruffalo, actor
US Rep. Bobby Rush
Douglas Rushkoff, author
Stafan Sagmeister, graphic designer
Kalamu Salaam, Listen to the People
Angelica Salas, exec. dir. CHIRLA
JD Samson, Le Tigre
San Francisco Bay View Newspaper
Sonia Sanchez, poet
Rev. Henry Sanders, Fountain of Life Missionary Baptist Church
Sapphire, poet & writer
Susan Sarandon
John Sayles, filmmaker
James Schamus
Sheley Secrest, attorney, Pres. of NAACP Seattle-King County
Rinku Sen, Colorlines*
Rafael Sencion, Sec. Gen., Congreso Nacional Dominicano
Richard Serra, sculptor
Stephen Shapiro, professor
Rev. Al Sharpton
Lou Shaw, writer, creator of Quincy MD
Cindy Sheehan, Gold Star Families for Peace
Martin Sheen
Stanley Sheinbaum, economist
Michael Steven Smith, writer, lawyer, & radio host
Gary Soto, children's book author
Nancy Spero, artist
Dona Spring, Berkeley City Council member
Gloria Steinem
Lynne Stewart, attorney
Jed Stone, attorney
Fernando Suarez del Solar, Guerrera Azteca Project, father of US marine killed in Iraq war
Malcolm Suber, People's Hurricane Relief Fund
David Swanson, After Downing Street
Serj Tankian
Jonathan Tasini
Mark Lewis Taylor, Princeton Theological Seminary
Sunsara Taylor, Revolution newspaper
Studs Terkel
Juan Torres
Marrianne Torres, Peace & Justice Action League, Spokane*
Dwight Trible, jazz vocalist
Mark Trumeo
George Tuttle & Ben Cushman, grapegrowers
Gore Vidal
Kurt Vonnegut
Mike Vorndran, pres. of Stonewall Young Democrats
Alice Walker
Naomi Wallace
Lt. Ehren Watada
US Rep. Maxine Waters
Wavy Gravy
Leonard Weinglass, attorney
Rev. Dave Weissbard, Unitarian Universalist Church, Rockford, IL
Timberlake Werternbaker, playwright
Cornel West
Rev. Phil Wheaton, Co-pastor, Community of Christ, Wash. DC
Susan Wicklund, abortion provider
Joan Wile, Dir. of Grandmothers Against War
Saul Williams, poet
Standish E. Willis, Nat. Conf. of Black Lawyers
S. Brian Wilson, Veterans for Peace
Krzysztof Wodiczko, artist
Ann Wright, former US diplomat
Daphne Wysham, Institute for Policy Studies
Peter Yarrow
Leeland Y. Yee, Speaker pro Tem, CA State Assembly
Juanita Young, October 22nd Coalition*
David Zeiger, filmmaker, Sir, No Sir!
Zephyr, graffiti artist & writer
Robert Zevin, Robert Brooke Zevin Associates, Inc.
Howard Zinn
Dave Zirin, What's My Name, Fool? Sports & Resistance in the US

Look at the names on this list, and then read below, about what they think of the Democrats.....
http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?o...d=11&Itemid=20
__________________

 

[Hagbard Celine]

If you really think that this hatred for Bush is really over the Iraq war then you head is up yout backside.

Sorry no zealotry here, I never said Bush was perfect, I never said this war has been fought perfectly, nor have I said no mistakes were made. Bush landed on a ship and said Mission Accomplished, big fuckin deal, that's petty bullshit on the part of dissenters, time to move on from that one.

That merely illustrates that the administration has changed its tune on how long operations would last. Two years ago officials were predicting that we would be out of there within months. What Im saying is it is ridiculous to just leave Iraq when we are 80% close to having the Iraqis take control over thier own country..It makes no sense to have done what we did there and now just say okay time to leave. And if you doubt for a moment the hatred for Bush is not about this war but all the things I mentioned in my previous post then read these names from Stephanie's post.

Wanna talk Zealots??[/QUOTE]

You've wondered way off topic in your rampant defense of the administration Bon. I don't care about a stupid petition signed by a bunch of left-wing special interest groups that'll never even be seen by policy-makers in the White House and Congress. Rumsfeld's speech blatantly calls-out legitimate dissenters who want nothing more than to end hostilities in Iraq by withdrawing our troops and handing control over to the Iraqis. He calls Senator Murtha, a decorated veteran, a coward because he's calling for a legitimate plan to be implemented so that our military boys can come home. Sure, he's a coward . And so is everyone else calling for an end to the war. Yet no plan for ending hostilities has been given by the administration. In fact, today on my way to work I heard on the news that a US general has estimated yet another year to the Iraq adventure. But hooray Rumsfeld! We like sitting in the desert and getting our limbs blown off and being away from our families for years at a time. Hooray! The administration is using rhetoric like "cut and run" to make people think that having a strategy to end the war is "cowardly." And you're falling for it.

 

[Bonnie]

That merely illustrates that the administration has changed its tune on how long operations would last. Two years ago officials were predicting that we would be out of there within months. What Im saying is it is ridiculous to just leave Iraq when we are 80% close to having the Iraqis take control over thier own country..It makes no sense to have done what we did there and now just say okay time to leave. And if you doubt for a moment the hatred for Bush is not about this war but all the things I mentioned in my previous post then read these names from Stephanie's post.

Wanna talk Zealots??

You've wondered way off topic in your rampant defense of the administration Bon. I don't care about a stupid petition signed by a bunch of left-wing special interest groups that'll never even be seen by policy-makers in the White House and Congress. Rumsfeld's speech blatantly calls-out legitimate dissenters who want nothing more than to end hostilities in Iraq by withdrawing our troops and handing control over to the Iraqis. He calls Senator Murtha, a decorated veteran, a coward because he's calling for a legitimate plan to be implemented so that our military boys can come home. Sure, he's a coward . And so is everyone else calling for an end to the war. Yet no plan for ending hostilities has been given by the administration. In fact, today on my way to work I heard on the news that a US general has estimated yet another year to the Iraq adventure. But hooray Rumsfeld! We like sitting in the desert and getting our limbs blown off and being away from our families for years at a time. Hooray! The administration is using rhetoric like "cut and run" to make people think that having a strategy to end the war is "cowardly." And you're falling for it.[/QUOTE]

The strategy is to train the Iraqis to do for themselves before we leave. If the general on the ground there thinks we need that much time to finish the job then that's what we need to do yes?? Seems very straightforward to me?? Are you suggesting we give the terrorists a timeline to sit low and wait things out??? How do you know the administration doesn't have a plan, why should they divulge it to the enemy?. Seriously here would Bush jeopardize his presidency and the country's future by just hanging out in Iraq with no reason or winable outcome in mind??? Doesn't add up?? No reason for that!

It's good to know you don't identify with the lunatics though

 

[dilloduck]

That merely illustrates that the administration has changed its tune on how long operations would last. Two years ago officials were predicting that we would be out of there within months. What Im saying is it is ridiculous to just leave Iraq when we are 80% close to having the Iraqis take control over thier own country..It makes no sense to have done what we did there and now just say okay time to leave. And if you doubt for a moment the hatred for Bush is not about this war but all the things I mentioned in my previous post then read these names from Stephanie's post.

Wanna talk Zealots??

You've wondered way off topic in your rampant defense of the administration Bon. I don't care about a stupid petition signed by a bunch of left-wing special interest groups that'll never even be seen by policy-makers in the White House and Congress. Rumsfeld's speech blatantly calls-out legitimate dissenters who want nothing more than to end hostilities in Iraq by withdrawing our troops and handing control over to the Iraqis. He calls Senator Murtha, a decorated veteran, a coward because he's calling for a legitimate plan to be implemented so that our military boys can come home. Sure, he's a coward . And so is everyone else calling for an end to the war. Yet no plan for ending hostilities has been given by the administration. In fact, today on my way to work I heard on the news that a US general has estimated yet another year to the Iraq adventure. But hooray Rumsfeld! We like sitting in the desert and getting our limbs blown off and being away from our families for years at a time. Hooray! The administration is using rhetoric like "cut and run" to make people think that having a strategy to end the war is "cowardly." And you're falling for it.

[/QUOTE]

How is it that you manage to stay so deaf to the plan for ending hositilities?
We engage hostiles until they stop or someone else stops them. I 'd ask what your plan is but I've "been there -done that" too many times to know that you don't have a VIABLE one.

 

[Stephanie]

That merely illustrates that the administration has changed its tune on how long operations would last. Two years ago officials were predicting that we would be out of there within months. What Im saying is it is ridiculous to just leave Iraq when we are 80% close to having the Iraqis take control over their own country..It makes no sense to have done what we did there and now just say okay time to leave. And if you doubt for a moment the hatred for Bush is not about this war but all the things I mentioned in my previous post then read these names from Stephanie's post.

Wanna talk Zealots??

You've wondered way off topic in your rampant defense of the administration BonI don't care about a stupid petition signed by a bunch of left-wing special interest groups thatmall never even be seen by policy-makers in the White House and Congress. Rumsfeld's speech blatantly calls-out legitimate dissenters who want nothing more than to end hostilities in Iraq by withdrawing our troops and handing control over to the Iraqis. He calls Senator Murtha, a decorated veteran, a coward because he's calling for a legitimate plan to be implemented so that our military boys can come home. Sure, he's a coward . And so is everyone else calling for an end to the war. Yet no plan for ending hostilities has been given by the administration. In fact, today on my way to work I heard on the news that a US general has estimated yet another year to the Iraq adventure. But hooray Rumsfeld! We like sitting in the desert and getting our limbs blown off and being away from our families for years at a time. Hooray! The administration is using rhetoric like "cut and run" to make people think that having a strategy to end the war is "cowardly." And you're falling for it.

[/QUOTE]

Your a fucking idiot...
Nothing you just posted there is true....But if you want to believe it, who cares.. I could care less about your political beliefs...

But when you start talking about our Vets as if they are idiots....
You complain about people talking about Kerry and Murtha...
Yet in one broad stroke of a brush, you sit there and put down ALL VETERANS for following orders, and talk about them clapping their stumps.
It just shows your lack of intelligence, that's ALL....

You can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.....

 

[Hagbard Celine]

Your a fucking idiot...
Nothing you just posted there is true....But if you want to believe it, who cares..
You complain about people talking about Kerry and Murtha...
Yet in one broad stroke of a brush, you sit there and put down ALL VETERANS for following orders, and talk about them clapping their stumps. It just shows your lack of intelligence, that's ALL....

You can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.....

Thanks my Christian sister. Once again rampant zealotry cancels-out normal brain function. The fact that I said something, anything remotely negative about the troops outweighs the fact that what I said is true. They are exalting bad policy that results in their own maiming and death, while putting-down and insulting those who are calling for their safe return. It's like being in bizarro world.

P.S. WTF is wrong with the "quote" function? It keeps malfunctioning.