oops...cain is pro choice

[jillian]

how clever

wow... i like that. someone was so obsessed that they thought it appropriate to pretend to be me and spew obscenity.



bet i can guess what loser's sock it was.

But isn't it a good feeling that your friends immediately knew that it wasn't you?

yes. it is. thanks.

i love my buds. awesome folk.

 

[alan1]

But isn't it a good feeling that your friends immediately knew that it wasn't you?

 

[alan1]

But isn't it a good feeling that your friends immediately knew that it wasn't you?

yes. it is. thanks.

i love my buds. awesome folk.

We've got yer back, jillian, even though you are a liberal.

 

[Ropey]

Personally I think most of Cain's answers to the media 'gotcha' questions are brilliant. How refreshing it is to see a candidate who isn't pandering to anybody but is up front and honest that you can't state policy decisions until you have all the facts and all possible information necessary to make the call.

Regardless if the call is at 3:00am or 10:00am and I agree with you Foxfyre. To my eyes, he's a breath of fresh air. If he was saying what he is saying from the left, I would begin to gently nudge myself in that direction.

I believe that Romney is unknown due to his pandering. The tea party serves a good purpose. There's too many left of center...

imo

a "breath of fresh air"...

the guy sounds like a TV commercial.

pathetic.

So, my view is pathetic to you and enough so that you laugh at it Jillian?

OK.

I can live with it even if you can continue to add me to your list of wingnuts and friends of wingnuts and not just apply my view to me.

I'm only human and just one person with his own views and when people call me names, well I want to get back.

It doesn't have to be right then. It's an easy fix.

 

[jillian]

But isn't it a good feeling that your friends immediately knew that it wasn't you?

yes. it is. thanks.

i love my buds. awesome folk.

We've got yer back, jillian, even though you are a liberal.

and you're ok for a righty.

 

[Ropey]

so herman cain said he doesn't think government has a role in telling a woman what to do with her body.



man are the rightwingnuts gonna be ticked.

He's right. They don't. But wait.... I'm supposed to be one of those 'rightwingnuts' that you speak of. Oops. My bad. I guess we don't all fit in the box that the left keep trying to keep the lid on, huh?

I know I sure don't.

What part of the religious left chooses numbers instead of lives?

Edit:

This question follows to the religious right as well...

^ And you still have not answered my question.

Remember? You quoted it and gave a bunch of wingnut responses, but you never answered it.

 

[Amelia]

When you say "religious left", do you mean those who tend to vote Democratic but are religious?

Or those who have a liberal religion?

Not the same sets of people.

 

[Ropey]

When you say "religious left", do you mean those who tend to vote Democratic but are religious?

Or those who have a liberal religion?

Not the same sets of people.

I mean those who are at the religious end of the US Liberal Spectrum. Not the extreme end of course. A standard deviation or two ahead on the curve.

Liberal Religion? Do you mean moderate or reformed? Or a personal choice to lower the religious practices?

 

[Amelia]

When you say "religious left", do you mean those who tend to vote Democratic but are religious?

Or those who have a liberal religion?

Not the same sets of people.

I mean those who are at the religious end of the US Liberal Spectrum. Not the extreme end of course. A standard deviation or two ahead on the curve.

Liberal Religion? Do you mean moderate or reformed? Or a personal choice to lower the religious practices?

There are people who are religiously conservative who vote Democratic. That's why Obama won handily in California and yet Prop 8 passed.

By liberal religion I mean something like Unitarianism.

 

[Ropey]

When you say "religious left", do you mean those who tend to vote Democratic but are religious?

Or those who have a liberal religion?

Not the same sets of people.

I mean those who are at the religious end of the US Liberal Spectrum. Not the extreme end of course. A standard deviation or two ahead on the curve.

Liberal Religion? Do you mean moderate or reformed? Or a personal choice to lower the religious practices?

There are people who are religiously conservative who vote Democratic. That's why Obama won handily in California and yet Prop 8 passed.

By liberal religion I mean something like Unitarianism.

That's not Liberal Religion to me. That's a complete spin-off.

I mean it's an 'ism'.

That's why I use the terms moderate and reformed. They are a softening of the edges

Unitarianism is an entirely new religious concept in and of itself. (I believe?)

Edit:

Religiously Conservative Americans vote both Democrat and Republican so I asked the question from those who are at those ends of the 'religious belief/political' spectrum.

I don't want to know from those who are so moderate in their religion that they really do no more than visit their belief. I wanted to know from those who are more religiously observant than the reformers as the reformers have been pretty clear that more reform is the road they travel.

 

[Foxfyre]

I mean those who are at the religious end of the US Liberal Spectrum. Not the extreme end of course. A standard deviation or two ahead on the curve.

Liberal Religion? Do you mean moderate or reformed? Or a personal choice to lower the religious practices?

There are people who are religiously conservative who vote Democratic. That's why Obama won handily in California and yet Prop 8 passed.

By liberal religion I mean something like Unitarianism.

That's not Liberal Religion to me. That's a complete spin-off.

I mean it's an 'ism'.

That's why I use the terms moderate and reformed. They are a softening of the edges

Unitarianism is an entirely new religious concept in and of itself. (I believe?)

The Unitarian Universalist Church has been around for most of the last century so isn't really new. Whether it is 'Christian' is a matter of debate but it is definitely one of the most liberal religious denominations. Others would include The United Church of Christ, the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), some of the Methodist and Presbyterian groups and others. You'll see a lot of Obama bumper stickers in the parking lots and they support almost all the causes dear to most of the left. Some, not all, Episcopalians also would tilt left of center.

But you will find conservatives in most, if not all, of these congregations. For instance nobody in their wildest imagination would call Mr. Foxfyre or me a 'liberal' or even remotely left of center on most issues, but we were members in one of those 'liberal' denominations for most of our adult lives.

There are few of us who are so entrenched in ideology that there is absolutely no room for any give and take on the key issues. That is why even if Herman Cain is pro choice re government policy, that is unlikely to be a deal breaker for the pro lifers who will vote for him.

 

[Ropey]

There are people who are religiously conservative who vote Democratic. That's why Obama won handily in California and yet Prop 8 passed.

By liberal religion I mean something like Unitarianism.

That's not Liberal Religion to me. That's a complete spin-off.

I mean it's an 'ism'.

That's why I use the terms moderate and reformed. They are a softening of the edges

Unitarianism is an entirely new religious concept in and of itself. (I believe?)

The Unitarian Universalist Church has been around for most of the last century so isn't really new. Whether it is 'Christian' is a matter of debate but it is definitely one of the most liberal religious denominations. Others would include The United Church of Christ, the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), some of the Methodist and Presbyterian groups and others. You'll see a lot of Obama bumper stickers in the parking lots and they support almost all the causes dear to most of the left. Some, not all, Episcopalians also would tilt left of center.

But you will find conservatives in most, if not all, of these congregations. For instance nobody in their wildest imagination would call Mr. Foxfyre or me a 'liberal' or even remotely left of center on most issues, but we were members in one of those 'liberal' denominations for most of our adult lives.

There are few of us who are so entrenched in ideology that there is absolutely no room for any give and take on the key issues. That is why even if Herman Cain is pro choice re government policy, that is unlikely to be a deal breaker for the pro lifers who will vote for him.

Christianity has many spin-offs and some are pretty radical with the Vatican holding sway for lo these long centuries. Judaism and Islam also has spin-offs and some of them are pretty radical as well. (when defining their observances and how they deter from even the more modern doctrine). So, to my eye I see a spin off of a hundred years rather short term and to a person looking in their own lifetimes that perspective can lengthen to be sure.

So many cults have lasted longer than spin offs. Romney finds himself caught up in this as well. Some calling Mormonism a cult.

I'm just wondering where the change comes. When the value of a human soul in the present is determined as less valuable than a possible future outcome and when the facts of the exchange are unknown.

I know where it lies with those less devout. I wonder where it lies with those others of higher religious observance than their more reformed brethren.

They are both souls. For Jews, the aborted faetus will go immediately to G-d.

The soldier captured?

And there the line between the two is created. For Conservative and Orthodox Judaism.

Reform?

Who the hello knows what they follow.

 

[Foxfyre]

That's not Liberal Religion to me. That's a complete spin-off.

I mean it's an 'ism'.

That's why I use the terms moderate and reformed. They are a softening of the edges

Unitarianism is an entirely new religious concept in and of itself. (I believe?)

The Unitarian Universalist Church has been around for most of the last century so isn't really new. Whether it is 'Christian' is a matter of debate but it is definitely one of the most liberal religious denominations. Others would include The United Church of Christ, the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), some of the Methodist and Presbyterian groups and others. You'll see a lot of Obama bumper stickers in the parking lots and they support almost all the causes dear to most of the left. Some, not all, Episcopalians also would tilt left of center.

But you will find conservatives in most, if not all, of these congregations. For instance nobody in their wildest imagination would call Mr. Foxfyre or me a 'liberal' or even remotely left of center on most issues, but we were members in one of those 'liberal' denominations for most of our adult lives.

There are few of us who are so entrenched in ideology that there is absolutely no room for any give and take on the key issues. That is why even if Herman Cain is pro choice re government policy, that is unlikely to be a deal breaker for the pro lifers who will vote for him.

Christianity has many spin-offs and some are pretty radical with the Vatican holding sway for lo these long centuries. Judaism and Islam also has spin-offs and some of them are pretty radical as well. (when defining their observances and how they deter from even the more modern doctrine). So, to my eye I see a spin off of a hundred years rather short term and to a person looking in their own lifetimes that perspective can lengthen to be sure.

So many cults have lasted longer than spin offs. Romney finds himself caught up in this as well. Some calling Mormonism a cult.

I'm just wondering where the change comes. When the value of a human soul in the present is determined as less valuable than a possible future outcome and when the facts of the exchange are unknown.

I know where it lies with those less devout. I wonder where it lies with those others of higher religious observance than their more reformed brethren.

They are both souls. The aborted faetus willl go immeidately to G-d.

The soldier captured?

And there the line between the two is created. For Conservative and Orthodox Judaism.

Reform?

Who the hello knows what they follow.

I dunno. I personally don't get caught up in the trappings, rites, rituals, and dogma of religion, though I can appreciate and enjoy it all when I worship with others. I expect when we get to finally meet G-d, he is going to be pretty disinterested in our theology. I think he will care more about the love we take with us to the heavenly realms whatever those may be. I believe I am Christian via a very real relationship with the living G-d and not because of affilation with any religious denomination, sect, or group.

But that's just me.

I strongly oppose any religious group who would presume to be in control of government to the detriment of other religious groups. And I strongly oppose government interfering with the exercise of religion of whatever religious group be it Islam, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, or other so long as such groups are not infringing on people's unalienable rights.

Cain was in an interview with John Stossel at Fox this week and seemed to contradict himself saying that government should not dictate whether somebody should get an abortion or not and in the same interview said abortion should be illegal. I understand where he was coming from there even though that exchange will no doubt be used by the opposition to good advantage to make him look like an idiot. There is a difference between believing abortion should be illegal and in saying that government should make it illegal.

When speaking extemporaneously, however, it is so easy to make blunders like that and they will always be used against the person. I wish the system allowed intellectual honesty and insisted that people be represented as they intend instead of how they can be portrayed.

And I still don't think Cain's position on abortion either way is a deal breaker with very many who will vote for him.

 

[Listening]

I kind of hope Cain wins the nomination so the Republican party falls apart lol.... again.

You mean like the democrats did in 2010 ?

The GOP was written off for decades in 2008. Wow...that didn't take long.

 

[Listening]

so herman cain said he doesn't think government has a role in telling a woman what to do with her body.

Woiw....a pro choice candidate in the GOP. How open minded of them to let him have a seat at the table.

Of course, our liberal counterparts would never take a pro life canidate seriously.

Because they are more en....en....en....enlightened.

 

[Ropey]

The Unitarian Universalist Church has been around for most of the last century so isn't really new. Whether it is 'Christian' is a matter of debate but it is definitely one of the most liberal religious denominations. Others would include The United Church of Christ, the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), some of the Methodist and Presbyterian groups and others. You'll see a lot of Obama bumper stickers in the parking lots and they support almost all the causes dear to most of the left. Some, not all, Episcopalians also would tilt left of center.

But you will find conservatives in most, if not all, of these congregations. For instance nobody in their wildest imagination would call Mr. Foxfyre or me a 'liberal' or even remotely left of center on most issues, but we were members in one of those 'liberal' denominations for most of our adult lives.

There are few of us who are so entrenched in ideology that there is absolutely no room for any give and take on the key issues. That is why even if Herman Cain is pro choice re government policy, that is unlikely to be a deal breaker for the pro lifers who will vote for him.

Christianity has many spin-offs and some are pretty radical with the Vatican holding sway for lo these long centuries. Judaism and Islam also has spin-offs and some of them are pretty radical as well. (when defining their observances and how they deter from even the more modern doctrine). So, to my eye I see a spin off of a hundred years rather short term and to a person looking in their own lifetimes that perspective can lengthen to be sure.

So many cults have lasted longer than spin offs. Romney finds himself caught up in this as well. Some calling Mormonism a cult.

I'm just wondering where the change comes. When the value of a human soul in the present is determined as less valuable than a possible future outcome and when the facts of the exchange are unknown.

I know where it lies with those less devout. I wonder where it lies with those others of higher religious observance than their more reformed brethren.

They are both souls. The aborted faetus willl go immeidately to G-d.

The soldier captured?

And there the line between the two is created. For Conservative and Orthodox Judaism.

Reform?

Who the hello knows what they follow.

I dunno. I personally don't get caught up in the trappings, rites, rituals, and dogma of religion, though I can appreciate and enjoy it all when I worship with others. I expect when we get to finally meet G-d, he is going to be pretty disinterested in our theology. I think he will care more about the love we take with us to the heavenly realms whatever those may be. I believe I am Christian via a very real relationship with the living G-d and not because of affilation with any religious denomination, sect, or group.

But that's just me.

I strongly oppose any religious group who would presume to be in control of government to the detriment of other religious groups. And I strongly oppose government interfering with the exercise of religion of whatever religious group be it Islam, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, or other so long as such groups are not infringing on people's unalienable rights.

Cain was in an interview with John Stossel at Fox this week and seemed to contradict himself saying that government should not dictate whether somebody should get an abortion or not and in the same interview said abortion should be illegal. I understand where he was coming from there even though that exchange will no doubt be used by the opposition to good advantage to make him look like an idiot. There is a difference between believing abortion should be illegal and in saying that government should make it illegal.

When speaking extemporaneously, however, it is so easy to make blunders like that and they will always be used against the person. I wish the system allowed intellectual honesty and insisted that people be represented as they intend instead of how they can be portrayed.

And I still don't think Cain's position on abortion either way is a deal breaker with very many who will vote for him.

That's why I came in this thread. The media attempted to hit Cain with a very charged issue and he handled it magnificently and correctly to my view.

Then I saw a post here attaching the idea that releaseing the Gitmo detainees was analogous to the release of Gilad and furthermore that since a Gitmo release would be stupid, then the 1000 for one release ....

So clearly Cain was hit with an intent to have him attach the two and then someone here also attached the two. That's when I came in and asked if it was Gilad where this divergence into the American psyche is now attached.

I still wonder at that morality and that was my first response in this thread.

It remains my main and really only perspective in here although I have spoken a bit to Orthodox/Conservative Judaism which really belongs in the religious section.

Church and State and all that.

Sometime maybe we can discuss the differences in Christianity and Judaism with regards to the soul. It's a major divergence.

 

[Foxfyre]

I dunno how divergent though, Ropey. You said your belief is that the soul of the aborted baby goes directly to G-d. That sounds awfully "Christian" to me. Just teasing.

But Cain is handling the 'gotcha' questions very well. In the Gilad issue for instance, when he was asked what he would have done in that case, he said as President he could make the decision but he would have to have ALL the facts, ALL the information before he made a decision. And in that particular case he doesn't know what information Netanyahu had, or all the dynamics that went into that. So he isn't in a position to know whether he would have made the same decision that Netanyahu made but he trusts Netanyahu to make the decision in the same way that he (Cain) would make it. That was a good answer.

That is why Cain is such a breath of fresh air to me. He doesn't have canned answers to every issue, every question, every 'gotcha' that they throw at him. He quite honestly and properly says that when he has a difficult decision to make, he gathers as much information as is possible to get and then makes his decision based on that information. How could anybody expect more from an elected leader?

 

[Ropey]

I dunno how divergent though, Ropey. You said your belief is that the soul of the aborted baby goes directly to G-d. That sounds awfully "Christian" to me. Just teasing.

It's the Judaic interpretation (pre-Christ) where the divergence (to Christianity) began and did so with ten fundamental precepts that were successfully argued via pilpul.

But Cain is handling the 'gotcha' questions very well. In the Gilad issue for instance, when he was asked what he would have done in that case, he said as President he could make the decision but he would have to have ALL the facts, ALL the information before he made a decision. And in that particular case he doesn't know what information Netanyahu had, or all the dynamics that went into that. So he isn't in a position to know whether he would have made the same decision that Netanyahu made but he trusts Netanyahu to make the decision in the same way that he (Cain) would make it. That was a good answer.

That is why Cain is such a breath of fresh air to me. He doesn't have canned answers to every issue, every question, every 'gotcha' that they throw at him. He quite honestly and properly says that when he has a difficult decision to make, he gathers as much information as is possible to get and then makes his decision based on that information. How could anybody expect more from an elected leader?

That's why he's a breath of fresh air to me as well and that attempt to conflate a release of Gitmo's 100 prisoners of the US to Israel's decision to exchange 1000 terrorists for Gilad was worthy of a challenge imo. So, I'm somewhat politically naive of the US. I'm not pretending to be astute. That's why I question.

Now I've found the Republican pool flimsy for quite some time so it's understandable that I find this man's character coming from a good place. He's not polished.

GOOD! When he does polish up, it will be a better view of the same man.

Intent Foxfyre. Back to that darn soul thing again.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well let's discuss the concept of soul, spirit, what happens post death of the mortal body, et al on a religion thread. Somehow I don't that that would be all that well received on this thread.

For now, the witching hour approacheth and I'm going to take my weary self to bed.

Good night Ropey and all. Some really good discussions on USMB the last couple of days. I hope that trend continues.

 

[JoeB131]

And Mr. community organizor, Obama, was a serious candidate?? Yeah sure. and boy aren't we paying a high price for that now?? I would take Herman Cain anyday of the week any time of the day over the economic moron that we have occupying the White house now.

BTW- I am a Romney supporter but I will vote for the orange juice can before I ever support the socialist/ marxist, spender in Chief Obama, in fact, I will walk through a blizzard to do it. I would vote for each and everyone of the GOP candidates before I will ever sit back and allow Obama to be elected again. Because if we allow this we will be sitting in the ash heap of what is left of our country. He will most certainly bankrupt it.

Hyperbole much?

Come on, I think Obama has been an awful president, but Bush dealt him a pretty shitty hand to start with.

As bad as he's been, I'm not ready to hand my country over to the LDS Cult. And I'm not ready to hand it over to a character like Cain who gets his economic policy from SimCity.

Perry I could vote for. Gingrich I could vote for.

The rest of them, ugh.