Once and for all, to fix the Federal Government. . . .

[Foxfyre]

I have to get back to the office...if you can't fix it by changing people and chan't fix it by changing the system...what else is there?

You change the system so that bad people cannot misuse or benefit from it.

You change the people to those who want to work within such a system.

You're talking in circles Foxy.

As far as the Constitution simply being a statement of intent, why are parts of it interpreted literally - or at least argued so by interest groups?
The Second Amendment being an example.

Veering off into Second Amendment issues would likely not only deflect but derail the thread which is not about specific clauses or phrases of the Constitution. I want to continue to focus on how to fix the federal government so that it again functions within basic principles embodied in the Constitution.

The Constitution is a statement of intent as the Founders created it. It intends that certain necessary administrative functions and orderly transitions will be carried out, and it intends that the rights of the people be secured so that they can govern themselves rather than be governed.

That is a difficult concept to grasp for those who desire the security of a 'king'.

Let's fix government first and then worry about specific policies re this or that.

 

[idb]

You change the system so that bad people cannot misuse or benefit from it.

You change the people to those who want to work within such a system.

You're talking in circles Foxy.

As far as the Constitution simply being a statement of intent, why are parts of it interpreted literally - or at least argued so by interest groups?
The Second Amendment being an example.

Veering off into Second Amendment issues would likely not only deflect but derail the thread which is not about specific clauses or phrases of the Constitution. I want to continue to focus on how to fix the federal government so that it again functions within basic principles embodied in the Constitution.

The Constitution is a statement of intent as the Founders created it. It intends that certain necessary administrative functions and orderly transitions will be carried out, and it intends that the rights of the people be secured so that they can govern themselves rather than be governed.

That is a difficult concept to grasp for those who desire the security of a 'king'.

Let's fix government first and then worry about specific policies re this or that.

Isn't your whole proposal based on the Constitution?

 

[Foxfyre]

You're talking in circles Foxy.

As far as the Constitution simply being a statement of intent, why are parts of it interpreted literally - or at least argued so by interest groups?
The Second Amendment being an example.

Veering off into Second Amendment issues would likely not only deflect but derail the thread which is not about specific clauses or phrases of the Constitution. I want to continue to focus on how to fix the federal government so that it again functions within basic principles embodied in the Constitution.

The Constitution is a statement of intent as the Founders created it. It intends that certain necessary administrative functions and orderly transitions will be carried out, and it intends that the rights of the people be secured so that they can govern themselves rather than be governed.

That is a difficult concept to grasp for those who desire the security of a 'king'.

Let's fix government first and then worry about specific policies re this or that.

Isn't your whole proposal based on the Constitution?

The OP is not a proposal. It invites input in how to fix the government. I don't know that we're even close to agreement yet on what a 'fixed' government will look like.

For me, I'm arguing for a return to the principles the Constitution intended as I believe that is the only way to restore integrity and honesty to the system and the only way to replace career politicians with visionary public servants who also embrace the principles the Constitution intended. You're welcome to try to convince me that would be a bad idea.

 

[Spoonman]

I have to get back to the office...if you can't fix it by changing people and chan't fix it by changing the system...what else is there?

You change the system so that bad people cannot misuse or benefit from it.

You change the people to those who want to work within such a system.

You're talking in circles Foxy.

As far as the Constitution simply being a statement of intent, why are parts of it interpreted literally - or at least argued so by interest groups?
The Second Amendment being an example.

now you're just being wonky

 

[candycorn]

You change the system so that bad people cannot misuse or benefit from it.

You change the people to those who want to work within such a system.

Good luck with the latter; the former is the only thing that matters and makes the latter irrelevant.

No, the latter is critical too. It is imperative to elect public servants to administer the laws and functions of government and who know how important it is to secure and defend the rights of the people. Elections will be as important as ever, but if we have the right system in place--that which was in place for the first hundred years of the Republic--we will elect public servants again instead of opportunistic career politicians.

Wrong.

And I'll tell you why.

In the past, there was no calling higher than service to one's fellow man. I forget the details but Emerson and Thoreau exchanged letters. One was in jail for not paying taxes for what he thought was an unjust levy. The other one wrote "Why are you in jail?" The jailbird wrote back and simply said, "Why are you not?".

Those days are long gone. "Give me liberty or give me death" isn't echoing through the halls of Washington any longer. I doubt it's being told to kids in the classroom. The art of compromise isn't being taught either.

The power of political parties is partly to blame but the 21st century "me first" society is the primary culprit. I won't go into all of the socio-economic factors but the days of putting others ahead of you are long gone.

So all that is left is to change the rules and make the Constitution so precise that there are no loopholes. Its a bad idea whose time has come. We have a Windows XP world and we're still running DOS. Is it any wonder it's not compatible.

I'll also say that if you fix the system by which the politicians become nothing other than technicians running the system; isn't that better than hoping that the guy/gal you vote for every 2-4-or 6 years is honest as they were in office while they were campaigning?

Unless you're particularly jaded, you would think that there are at least some people in Congress who are serious about border security. Yet we have what, 15-20M illegals here?

Every border governor says they are 100% dead serious about it. Yet we have 15-20M illegals here?

Every President has weighed in on it since Taft right? Yet we have 15-20M illegals here?

You amend the Constitution to give the Coast Guard authority to secure the borders with the awesome power of the military...meaning yes armed forces patrolling the borders using deadly force when necessary and gee, you don't have to worry about politicians saying one thing during the election cycle and doing another in-between. The conservative in me talking. Its a bad idea whose time has come.

Thats just one of a great many examples. I'd like to see a Constitution that says 60 cents of every tax dollar will be spent on non-defense domestic programs. I'd like to see free health care--I mean FREE--for every citizen less than 20 and over 60. I'd like to see College spending (including books, tuition, R&B, fees, special tutoring that qualifies) and all medical in-patient spending be 100% tax deductible. The liberal in me talking.

Those are my ideas. You put those in the Constitution and you don't have to worry about the bullshit "Compassionate Conservatism" slogan while your voting and the real GOP healthcare plan of "Don't get sick...or else!". I'm sure they won't fly; thats just my take on it. I'm sure you have ideas that I could support or not as well. You put those things in the Constitution and you don't have to worry about it.

Now the $0.60 of every tax dollar--where it goes (4 cents for NASA, 20 cents for Social Security, .2 cents for the study of ketchup in the American diet--whatever) is where the political technicians come in. But $0.60% of the budget will be spent in the 50 states. No ifs, ands or buts. Of that 60 percent, medical care would be part of that of course. Of the other 40 cents on the dollar...the new directive to secure our borders--a basic thing that every country should be doing--will suck up a lot of that. GOOD! Less money going to keeping troops in Korea, Saudi, Diego Garcia, Philippines, Japan, Europe, etc...

Sorry to have gone on and on and on about this but the system needs fixing; hoping you are going to get 538 people on the same page who put the country before their district/state is, I'm sorry to say, silly. I'm with you on hoping that happens. But I don't think the people of the Georgia 4th really care about their candidate's stand on ethanol tax subsidies or if Maine lobster men can go out 18 miles instead of 14 miles.

 

[candycorn]

Our governments are a reflection of the shit-for-brains philosophical value system we've allowed to take it over.

We have to fix ourselves before our government is going to get better.

I agree with that; we get the government we deserve;

 

[Spoonman]

Our governments are a reflection of the shit-for-brains philosophical value system we've allowed to take it over.

We have to fix ourselves before our government is going to get better.

you mean the loony left wingers?

 

[jillian]

Our governments are a reflection of the shit-for-brains philosophical value system we've allowed to take it over.

We have to fix ourselves before our government is going to get better.

you mean the loony left wingers?

i think he means the rabid right.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I want to continue to focus on how to fix the federal government so that it again functions within basic principles embodied in the Constitution.

The government is currently functioning within the basic principles embodied in the Constitution. That you believe otherwise is subjective, irrelevant, and in error. For over 200 years the Supreme Court has created a body of constitutional case law explaining what Congress may and may not do.

That’s all that matters, that’s all that is relevant.

If you disagree you’re free to file suit in Federal court.

Otherwise, and as noted, the problem is not with ‘the government,’ but with the people of this nation who refuse to get involved, allowing special interests to dominate the political process. It’s not going to be ‘fixed’ with laws or amendments or the like.

 

[saveliberty]

I want to continue to focus on how to fix the federal government so that it again functions within basic principles embodied in the Constitution.

The government is currently functioning within the basic principles embodied in the Constitution. That you believe otherwise is subjective, irrelevant, and in error. For over 200 years the Supreme Court has created a body of constitutional case law explaining what Congress may and may not do.

That’s all that matters, that’s all that is relevant.

If you disagree you’re free to file suit in Federal court.

Otherwise, and as noted, the problem is not with ‘the government,’ but with the people of this nation who refuse to get involved, allowing special interests to dominate the political process. It’s not going to be ‘fixed’ with laws or amendments or the like.

Cool, I guess that means we can throw out any case relating to Congress from here on out then.

Moron.

 

[freedombecki]

Elect Democratic super majorities in Congress and Executive Branch.

Nope. The state voters determine who their own Congresscritters are, and each state's electors determine who is going to be President.

Elect Republican super majorities in Congress and Executive Branch

Nope. The state voters determine who their own Congresscritters are, and each state's electors determine who is going to be President.

Be sure that the President and Congress are of different parties.

Nope. The state voters determine who their own Congresscritters are, and each state's electors determine who is going to be President.

The Pres, staff, Congress, fed employees live under same laws as all.

They're supposed to do that right now.

Do away with Federal Government pensions and health plans – they can fund their own.

I don't like that because that limits who may serve to the very wealthy, not to the very capable who may not be wealthy enough to fund a pension or health plan. However, I would like to see an overhaul of salaries and benefits so that Congress will not be overly enriching itself with benefits nobody else has, such as retirement at full pay and in a recent House majority leader's case, expropriating Air Force jets to transport her not only across the continent, but also to European states in violation of the good judgment to let the people's President handle foreign affairs without having to worry about being backstabbed by a petty political opponent sympathetic to a foreign country more than his own constituents, which is where Congresscritters belong on the weekends. Also, each state should be accorded living quarters for their own congresscritters and charged with accommodating their state congresscritters' needs, down to the last damn paper clip he or she uses.

Do away with all forms of Federal Government charity or benevolence of any kind.

Nope. The Constitution charges the Congress to do that, and we elect the congresscritters to make such decisions for us. If they're spendthrifts, we have to deal with that in our own states.

Term limits

Nope. That should be decided by the individual state, not people in other states. It's a state's right issue.

A zero tolerance malfeasance policy.

There already are laws in place for malfeasance. The trouble is voters won't vote out bad and dishonest people. The key would be to putting teeth into the malfeasance laws with instant dismissal for misconduct.

None of the above.

The train whistle says "wuss, wuss!"

One thing that isn't mentioned here but would help us a whole lot is the limitation of citizenship problem. Establishing a quota (say 20,000) aliens a year to come to the USA, no exceptions was at one time the rule of thumb. The invasion of this nation of a million illegals a year has resulted in greedy politicians counting votes ahead of time if they lower standards of citizenship, remove the one-language rule for expensive printouts for multiple languages is out of control.

Pols need to get a grip, and voters need to get really, really, really nasty with antiAmerican pols who are using illegal aliens to clobber the other party with if they can win them over to their vote. This has no regard for people who lived, worked hard, but still didn't make it to the millionaire's circle, and replaces them with freebies for the enemies of the country and slobbovian houseapes who won't even bother themselves to learn the American language. If the Pol went back to congress in a wheelchair because voters kicked his shins so many times over this issue, I'd feel pretty good about it. And maybe they'd be a little more concerned with their personal safety instead of putting the rest of us at risk for higher taxes to support their little vote-getting schemes not to mention terrorists they've welcomed en masse by forcing everyone to accept any bum that comes over here to piss on America. We're sick of it and we're not going to take it any more.

Other (I'll elaborate in my post.) I just did.

Have a lovely evenin' everyone.

 

[BolshevikHunter]

Our governments are a reflection of the shit-for-brains philosophical value system we've allowed to take it over.

We have to fix ourselves before our government is going to get better.

I agree with that; we get the government we deserve;

No caca, What we need to do is throw all of the motherfuckers in D.C out of office. Then we need to Amend the Constitution and install short terms for Congress. After that, Then we attempt to fix ourselves.

When the 1st issue is accomplished, I wish you good luck with fixing a Nation full of assholes and **** ups living off their own parents. A task like that will take decades to accomplish bro. You know it, and I know it. ~BH

 

[idb]

Our governments are a reflection of the shit-for-brains philosophical value system we've allowed to take it over.

We have to fix ourselves before our government is going to get better.

I agree with that; we get the government we deserve;

No caca, What we need to do is throw all of the motherfuckers in D.C out of office. Then we need to Amend the Constitution and install short terms for Congress. After that, Then we attempt to fix ourselves.

When the 1st issue is accomplished, I wish you good luck with fixing a Nation full of assholes and **** ups living off their own parents. A task like that will take decades to accomplish bro. You know it, and I know it. ~BH

Uh Oh!!!
He said [whisper]amend the constitution[/whisper]!

 

[newpolitics]

I want to continue to focus on how to fix the federal government so that it again functions within basic principles embodied in the Constitution.

The government is currently functioning within the basic principles embodied in the Constitution. That you believe otherwise is subjective, irrelevant, and in error. For over 200 years the Supreme Court has created a body of constitutional case law explaining what Congress may and may not do.

That’s all that matters, that’s all that is relevant.

If you disagree you’re free to file suit in Federal court.

Otherwise, and as noted, the problem is not with ‘the government,’ but with the people of this nation who refuse to get involved, allowing special interests to dominate the political process. It’s not going to be ‘fixed’ with laws or amendments or the like.

Cool, I guess that means we can throw out any case relating to Congress from here on out then.

Moron.

He's actually, right, so you may want to consider it. We need to pull out professional lobbyism, special interests, and any kind of money in Washington, otherwise, this will never be a democracy, instead only a corporatocracy sold to us as democracy. Wake up... it doesn't matter who they put in the presidency, congress, senate... they will be broken, and have to bow down to the money... That is this country's god, not "Jesus" as the Contards think

 

[Trajan]

Numbers 4, 5, 6 & 8.

Then repeal the 14th, 16th and 17th Amendments.

I am down with that, but I am leery of zero tolerance anything...

the 17th amend. was and is an abomination.

 

[saveliberty]

The government is currently functioning within the basic principles embodied in the Constitution. That you believe otherwise is subjective, irrelevant, and in error. For over 200 years the Supreme Court has created a body of constitutional case law explaining what Congress may and may not do.

That’s all that matters, that’s all that is relevant.

If you disagree you’re free to file suit in Federal court.

Otherwise, and as noted, the problem is not with ‘the government,’ but with the people of this nation who refuse to get involved, allowing special interests to dominate the political process. It’s not going to be ‘fixed’ with laws or amendments or the like.

Cool, I guess that means we can throw out any case relating to Congress from here on out then.

Moron.

He's actually, right, so you may want to consider it. We need to pull out professional lobbyism, special interests, and any kind of money in Washington, otherwise, this will never be a democracy, instead only a corporatocracy sold to us as democracy. Wake up... it doesn't matter who they put in the presidency, congress, senate... they will be broken, and have to bow down to the money... That is this country's god, not "Jesus" as the Contards think

He was right about citizens effecting change. The rest is crap.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Wrong.

And I'll tell you why.

In the past, there was no calling higher than service to one's fellow man.

Bullshit.

Show me one person in history, who's "service" was anything other than self-aggrandizing and a quest for power. Gandhi defeated an empire and ruled a nation, he sought power. Jesus was a myth.

Those days are long gone. "Give me liberty or give me death" isn't echoing through the halls of Washington any longer. I doubt it's being told to kids in the classroom. The art of compromise isn't being taught either.

The power of political parties is partly to blame but the 21st century "me first" society is the primary culprit.

Bullshit.

The "equality of outcome" and unearned "self-esteem" are the primary culprits. Self-reliance and the responsibility that accrues to it are what we have lost.

So all that is left is to change the rules and make the Constitution so precise that there are no loopholes. Its a bad idea whose time has come. We have a Windows XP world and we're still running DOS. Is it any wonder it's not compatible.

The goal of tyrants is to defeat the constitution. The wall that has kept the dictators and aristocracy from full rule is the constitution. If you can defeat that, nothing will restrain the complete destruction of liberty and individual rights.

Every border governor says they are 100% dead serious about it. Yet we have 15-20M illegals here?

Arnold bragged to the Mexican community that he kept the border open. Jan Brewer is serious about stopping the invasion, not many others are. Note that the central authority acted to ensure the flow of illegals when Brewer secured Arizona borders. Clearly the policy and goal the Federal government is a massive influx of poorly educated and low skilled people.

After all, they won't mind scrapping the constitution - just as you desire.

You amend the Constitution to give the Coast Guard authority to secure the borders with the awesome power of the military...meaning yes armed forces patrolling the borders using deadly force when necessary and gee, you don't have to worry about politicians saying one thing during the election cycle and doing another in-between. The conservative in me talking. Its a bad idea whose time has come.

The federal government wants the borders open. The federal government wants the population of the United States changed, the European descendents could not be ruled, they were too educated, too informed, too dedicated to liberty. Dilute them with a massive influx of third world peasants - offer the peasants trinkets from the public treasury to vote in favor of authoritarianism and then you can crush that damned constitution once and for all.

They have a plan - which is strangely similar to your plan.

 

[freedombecki]

Numbers 4, 5, 6 & 8.

Then repeal the 14th, 16th and 17th Amendments.

I am down with that, but I am leery of zero tolerance anything...

the 17th amend. was and is an abomination.

It guarantees small states a voice among giants, and at least one state with a very small population that I know of joined the Union with 2 conditions: (1) Equality for women at the polls and perhaps less formally, an equal voice in the Senate. It cost the state a year in the decision arenas of Congress, but when Wyoming became a state in 1890, they became a state where women had full voting rights in state and national elections. It's not clear to me if the two senators were accepted immediately or later.

I spent 35 years in the Equality State between 1969 and 2009 and five years in the Beaver State when my illustrious husband was transferred there to acquire management experience to replace his retiring manager.

I love these United States! We all have a voice, small or large, and we listen carefully to each one if we value the loyalty and unity that binds us as a country. Sometimes we don't pay attention until our country is at war and a serviceman writes home, "So this is what it is like to have you saved by someone from the state of".....(fill in the blank). Then we understand why these pacts and understandings eventually became laws.

We learned from Wyoming a new respect for women. The women of the frozen fronteir literally froze their fingers off forging a society out of that barren, bittercold land that separates the prairies from the mountains. Their men grew to regard them so warmly, they paid attention to them in politics, sometimes even to the point of taking the wife of a governor who died suddenly as acting governor. A million people do not live there, but the state hosts 2,000,000 in peak years in the summer at Yellowstone National Park and Teton National Park that is close by. Now, all American women vote, because suffrage struck a good and right cord in the hearts of other American states after that.

God bless this dear USA! Even those who disagree with me for reasonable causes of their own.

 

[Foxfyre]

The Founders took years to put together a system for a free people. It worked then and I believe it will work now. We just need to restore it.

Equality of 'stuff' doesn't produce anything but disatisfaction. The half that have to provide for the other half in order for the bottom half to be 'equal' are never going to be happy about that. The bottom half will always clamor for the top half to provide a better standard of 'equality' and they won't be happy either.

Equality of right to reach for opportunity yes, but all will not take advantage of the opportunity, and that's okay. There is no way to achieve equality of intellect, vision, inspiration, talent, drive, ambition, self respect, initiative, etc. Those who prepare themselves to take advantage of opportunities offered or who have the ability and initiative and temperament to create their own opportunities are going to achieve more than those who don't.

And those who do don't owe a damn thing to those who don't. They may help out the 'have nots' out of the goodness of their heart, but the Founders did not see that any of us have any kind of right for somebody else to provide us with anything.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

The Founders took years to put together a system for a free people. It worked then and I believe it will work now. We just need to restore it.

Equality of 'stuff' doesn't produce anything but disatisfaction. The half that have to provide for the other half in order for the bottom half to be 'equal' are never going to be happy about that. The bottom half will always clamor for the top half to provide a better standard of 'equality' and they won't be happy either.

Equality of right to reach for opportunity yes, but all will not take advantage of the opportunity, and that's okay. There is no way to achieve equality of intellect, vision, inspiration, talent, drive, ambition, self respect, initiative, etc. Those who prepare themselves to take advantage of opportunities offered or who have the ability and initiative and temperament to create their own opportunities are going to achieve more than those who don't.

And those who do don't owe a damn thing to those who don't. They may help out the 'have nots' out of the goodness of their heart, but the Founders did not see that any of us have any kind of right for somebody else to provide us with anything.

Nobody is born knowing how to take advantage of opportunities (or even how to be responsible). Many of us are lucky enough to have had parents or other family members who taught us, but lots of people did not. A society that truly believes in equality has to prepare everyone, not leave that element to chance.