OMG! Science Attacks Religion!

[PoliticalChic]

Not at all. Your attempts to refute my arguments have been complete failures. The result has been a most embarrassing display of fundie xtian incompetence.

You and the other fundie exemplify the very worst attributes of vulgar, self-hating religious fundamentalist whack jobs.

You made no arguments.....you just made stuff up, and ran and hid.


In all sincerity....there seems to be something wrong with your ability to judge reality.

And you ran for the exits when my earlier post put you in your place.

When I see folks like you, I'm always disappointed then their pants don't actually burst into fire.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Science doesn't attack religion. Religion attacks science from the time the church put Galileo under house arrest under threat of heresy, burned witches and persecuted Jews and heretics, up till the modern time when Muslims stone people to death, chop off hands or declare Fatwas because some infidel dared draw a cartoon they found offensive. Who is attacking WHO here?

How about we skip to the last few decades?

Pick up a book once in a while, Mary....

Let me start you off:

1. To begin with, according to molecular geneticist Dean Hamer, a person’s capacity to believe in God is linked to his brain chemicals. Perhaps it will not be amiss to observe that Dr. Hamer has made the same claim about homosexuality, and if he has refrained from arguing that a person’s capacity to believe in molecular genetics is linked to a brain chemical, it is, no doubt, owing to a prudent sense that once that door is open, God knows how and when anyone will ever slam it shut again.

2. In the course of an essay denouncing not only theology but poetry and philosophy as well, Peter Atkins, a professor of physical chemistry at Oxford University, observes favorably of his ilk that scientists “are at the summit of knowledge, beacons of rationality, and intellectually honest.” Given that science is, after all, “the apotheosis of the intellect and the consummation of the Renaissance, . . . there is no reason to suppose that science cannot deal with every aspect of existence.”

3. In 2007, physicists Steven Weinberg addressed the “Beyond Belief: Science, Religion, Reason, and Survival” conference. This Nobel Prize winner claimed “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.” He was warmly applauded.

a. What was the religious provenance of poison gas, barbed wire, high explosives, experiments in eugenics, Zyklon B, heavy artillery, napalm, nuclear weapons?

4. What did Christopher Hitchens write…” God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything!” Well, then how do with reconcile science with abortion, fetal stem-cell research, euthanasia, infanticide, cloning, animal-human hybrids, among the other ‘gifts’ of science, an ideology bereft of any sense of responsibility to human nature.

a. Sam Harris, in “Letters to a Christian Nation,” writes that “qualms” about stem-cell research are “obscene,” because they are “morally indefensible” because they represent mere “faith-based irrationality.” Can you say ‘slippery-slope’?

5. Emile Zuckerkandl Writing in the journal "Gene," he found it difficult to contain his indignation:
"The intellectual virus named 'intelligent design'...the 'creationists'...have decided some years ago...to dress up in academic gear and to present themselves as scholars...laugh off this disguise...Naive members of the public...the wrong-foot...the only foot on which the promoters of intelligent design can get around...guided by a little angel...medieval concept...and intellectually dangerous condition...the divine jumping disease...humanity dug itself into 'faiths' like a blind leech into flesh and won't let go....Feeding like leeches on irrational beliefs....offensive little swarms of insects...."


I'd be happy to recommend some books....

Why don't you just confront reality? Are you kidding?

When you are both ignorant, and afraid to research material such as I've made available to you....

.....you write posts such as you just did.


Again....don't be afraid to pick up a book.

 

[Hollie]

Didn't take PC long to.expose you for what you really are...

Your hate and bitterness is on display for all.to.see... kinda ruins your credibility...

PC and her clone are precisely the persons I was addressing in my post.

You should do yourself a favor and read through the thread for a demonstration of who harbors hate and bitterness.

Being ignorant of the facts tends to reduce your credibility.

Oh, I've read the entire thread... You apparently have no clue as to how obvious your hate and bitterness is showing its ugly head. It's not about the Constitution, or the founding fathers, founding principles, etc... it's about your hatred for Christians. I've sadly seen many just like you in the past, you're not unique.

Thats a lot of whining with nothing to refute my comments. Such are the wages of fundies.

Your feelings are hurt. Grow up.

 

[Hollie]

How about we skip to the last few decades?

Pick up a book once in a while, Mary....

Let me start you off:

1. To begin with, according to molecular geneticist Dean Hamer, a person’s capacity to believe in God is linked to his brain chemicals. Perhaps it will not be amiss to observe that Dr. Hamer has made the same claim about homosexuality, and if he has refrained from arguing that a person’s capacity to believe in molecular genetics is linked to a brain chemical, it is, no doubt, owing to a prudent sense that once that door is open, God knows how and when anyone will ever slam it shut again.

2. In the course of an essay denouncing not only theology but poetry and philosophy as well, Peter Atkins, a professor of physical chemistry at Oxford University, observes favorably of his ilk that scientists “are at the summit of knowledge, beacons of rationality, and intellectually honest.” Given that science is, after all, “the apotheosis of the intellect and the consummation of the Renaissance, . . . there is no reason to suppose that science cannot deal with every aspect of existence.”

3. In 2007, physicists Steven Weinberg addressed the “Beyond Belief: Science, Religion, Reason, and Survival” conference. This Nobel Prize winner claimed “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.” He was warmly applauded.

a. What was the religious provenance of poison gas, barbed wire, high explosives, experiments in eugenics, Zyklon B, heavy artillery, napalm, nuclear weapons?

4. What did Christopher Hitchens write…” God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything!” Well, then how do with reconcile science with abortion, fetal stem-cell research, euthanasia, infanticide, cloning, animal-human hybrids, among the other ‘gifts’ of science, an ideology bereft of any sense of responsibility to human nature.

a. Sam Harris, in “Letters to a Christian Nation,” writes that “qualms” about stem-cell research are “obscene,” because they are “morally indefensible” because they represent mere “faith-based irrationality.” Can you say ‘slippery-slope’?

5. Emile Zuckerkandl Writing in the journal "Gene," he found it difficult to contain his indignation:
"The intellectual virus named 'intelligent design'...the 'creationists'...have decided some years ago...to dress up in academic gear and to present themselves as scholars...laugh off this disguise...Naive members of the public...the wrong-foot...the only foot on which the promoters of intelligent design can get around...guided by a little angel...medieval concept...and intellectually dangerous condition...the divine jumping disease...humanity dug itself into 'faiths' like a blind leech into flesh and won't let go....Feeding like leeches on irrational beliefs....offensive little swarms of insects...."


I'd be happy to recommend some books....

Why don't you just confront reality? Are you kidding?

When you are both ignorant, and afraid to research material such as I've made available to you....

.....you write posts such as you just did.


Again....don't be afraid to pick up a book.

Aain...... as much as facts contradict Christian fundamentalism, there's no need for reality to intrude into your spirit world of self-hate, anger and derision.

 

[Hollie]

You made no arguments.....you just made stuff up, and ran and hid.


In all sincerity....there seems to be something wrong with your ability to judge reality.

And you ran for the exits when my earlier post put you in your place.

When I see folks like you, I'm always disappointed then their pants don't actually burst into fire.

I'm never surprised that religious zealots use their gods as a vehicle to promote hate.

 

[Newby]

PC and her clone are precisely the persons I was addressing in my post.

You should do yourself a favor and read through the thread for a demonstration of who harbors hate and bitterness.

Being ignorant of the facts tends to reduce your credibility.

Oh, I've read the entire thread... You apparently have no clue as to how obvious your hate and bitterness is showing its ugly head. It's not about the Constitution, or the founding fathers, founding principles, etc... it's about your hatred for Christians. I've sadly seen many just like you in the past, you're not unique.

Thats a lot of whining with nothing to refute my comments. Such are the wages of fundies.

Your feelings are hurt. Grow up.

I don't think I'm the one that needs to 'grow up' here.. You don't have the power to hurt my feelings dear, you're really not that important to me. But I understand how you're a legend in your own mind, only a child would project their own self importance onto others.

 

[Newby]

Murder is not science.
Creationists claim their religious beliefs are just like the Nazis claimed their medical research was.

Yep. And the Nazi SS wore the inscription Gott mit uns, "god is with us", on their belt buckles.

Not strange at all that Christian zealots are in denial of the atrocities their ideology has spawned.

What is your definition of a 'Christian zealot'?

And what 'ideology' are you referring too? Please be specific when you discuss. Thanks.

Bump... or don't you answer questions and actually debate issues?

 

[Hollie]

Oh, I've read the entire thread... You apparently have no clue as to how obvious your hate and bitterness is showing its ugly head. It's not about the Constitution, or the founding fathers, founding principles, etc... it's about your hatred for Christians. I've sadly seen many just like you in the past, you're not unique.

Thats a lot of whining with nothing to refute my comments. Such are the wages of fundies.

Your feelings are hurt. Grow up.

I don't think I'm the one that needs to 'grow up' here.. You don't have the power to hurt my feelings dear, you're really not that important to me. But I understand how you're a legend in your own mind, only a child would project their own self importance onto others.

Don't let your hurt feelings interrupt your frantic need to defend your hurt feelings.

 

[Newby]

Thats a lot of whining with nothing to refute my comments. Such are the wages of fundies.

Your feelings are hurt. Grow up.

I don't think I'm the one that needs to 'grow up' here.. You don't have the power to hurt my feelings dear, you're really not that important to me. But I understand how you're a legend in your own mind, only a child would project their own self importance onto others.

Don't let your hurt feelings interrupt your frantic need to defend your hurt feelings.

Are you capable of discussing the topic, or are you so juvenile that all you have are unfounded insults and accusations?

 

[Hollie]

Yep. And the Nazi SS wore the inscription Gott mit uns, "god is with us", on their belt buckles.

Not strange at all that Christian zealots are in denial of the atrocities their ideology has spawned.

What is your definition of a 'Christian zealot'?

And what 'ideology' are you referring too? Please be specific when you discuss. Thanks.

Bump... or don't you answer questions and actually debate issues?

Already addressed.

It seems you're incapable if offering anything but juvenile whining.

 

[Newby]

What is your definition of a 'Christian zealot'?

And what 'ideology' are you referring too? Please be specific when you discuss. Thanks.

Bump... or don't you answer questions and actually debate issues?

Already addressed.

It seems you're incapable if offering anything but juvenile whining.

Link the post where you described what you view as a 'christian zealot' and discussed any ideology with any depth at all. I havent' seen it.

 

[Hollie]

Bump... or don't you answer questions and actually debate issues?

Already addressed.

It seems you're incapable if offering anything but juvenile whining.

Link the post where you described what you view as a 'christian zealot' and discussed any ideology with any depth at all. I havent' seen it.

Seek and ye shall find.

It's the will of the gods.

 

[Newby]

Already addressed.

It seems you're incapable if offering anything but juvenile whining.

Link the post where you described what you view as a 'christian zealot' and discussed any ideology with any depth at all. I havent' seen it.

Seek and ye shall find.

It's the will of the gods.

That's what I thought.

 

[Underhill]

Christian zealot - A person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their faith and ideals.

Simple enough answer?

 

[Newby]

Christian zealot - A person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their faith and ideals.

Simple enough answer?

I want her definition of it, i.e. does she see every person who claims to be a Christian as a 'zealot', are there any Christians that she respects and admires, or are they all to be discredited, marginalized, and insulted. But thanks for the obvious.

 

[Hollie]

Christian zealot - A person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their faith and ideals.

Simple enough answer?

I might be a bit more... how shall we say... emphatic as to my definition.

If we look at the state of affairs in much of christiandom, and in concert with the really angry, vitriolic posts from the fundies in this and other threads, what strikes me is just how fiercely resistant the politico-religious ideology actually is to any sort of revision or reform (other than the subjective interpretations of what christianity really is) made by various adherents.

This is its single most buttressed impediment to compatibility with the relevant world of science, reason and rationality. If we listen to so many of christiandons more excitable adherents, they tell us in clear and uncompromising terms that christianity is held by its adherents to be the only legitimate worldview for all of mankind, in all places, at all times. By words and actions, fundies tell us that they are resolutely convinced that their religion came to them in perfect form from the gods so that it will be in all places, for all times. That is the foundation of its unyielding intolerance and contempt (that's not too strong a phrase, BTW), for all other worldviews.

The result of this rigid literalism in christianity is that fundies exempt their bibles and much of modern science from the debate that one will find in the rational, secular world where hard truths supplant ancient tales.

Christian fundies are among the most static of all the world's religionists. The bibles and the amending versions of the bibles are the backbone, brains, heart, and martial law of a fundie's life. No matter what they're doing, however mundane, insignificant, or personal, if you're a fundamentalist, you must adhere to prescribed anti-science dogma.

 

[Underhill]

Christian zealot - A person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their faith and ideals.

Simple enough answer?

I might be a bit more... how shall we say... emphatic as to my definition.

If we look at the state of affairs in much of christiandom, and in concert with the really angry, vitriolic posts from the fundies in this and other threads, what strikes me is just how fiercely resistant the politico-religious ideology actually is to any sort of revision or reform (other than the subjective interpretations of what christianity really is) made by various adherents.

This is its single most buttressed impediment to compatibility with the relevant world of science, reason and rationality. If we listen to so many of christiandons more excitable adherents, they tell us in clear and uncompromising terms that christianity is held by its adherents to be the only legitimate worldview for all of mankind, in all places, at all times. By words and actions, fundies tell us that they are resolutely convinced that their religion came to them in perfect form from the gods so that it will be in all places, for all times. That is the foundation of its unyielding intolerance and contempt (that's not too strong a phrase, BTW), for all other worldviews.

The result of this rigid literalism in christianity is that fundies exempt their bibles and much of modern science from the debate that one will find in the rational, secular world where hard truths supplant ancient tales.

Christian fundies are among the most static of all the world's religionists. The bibles and the amending versions of the bibles are the backbone, brains, heart, and martial law of a fundie's life. No matter what they're doing, however mundane, insignificant, or personal, if you're a fundamentalist, you must adhere to prescribed anti-science dogma.

This is all true of many christians. But I think my definition pretty much covered all that.

It's also true of many muslims as well.

In fact the only religion I have ever seen that seemed flexible at all (and of course I haven't seen them all) is Buddhism. I know buddhist who consider themselves atheist, theist with no real belief system and christians.

But I think this is because Buddhism is, or has become, as much a code of conduct as a religion.

 

[Newby]

What is your definition of a 'fundie'? All Christians? If not all, what distinguishes a 'normal' Christian from a 'fundie' Christian?

 

[Newby]

I don't like vague generalities, I like specifics, so I've inserted the following questions below:

Christian zealot - A person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their faith and ideals.

Simple enough answer?

I might be a bit more... how shall we say... emphatic as to my definition.

If we look at the state of affairs in much of christiandom, and in concert with the really angry, vitriolic posts from the fundies in this and other threads, what strikes me is just how fiercely resistant the politico-religious ideology actually is to any sort of revision or reform (other than the subjective interpretations of what christianity really is) made by various adherents.

What 'state of affairs' are you referring to?
What are 'fundies' angry about exactly?
What revision or reform are they resistant to?

This is its single most buttressed impediment to compatibility with the relevant world of science, reason and rationality. If we listen to so many of christiandons more excitable adherents, they tell us in clear and uncompromising terms that christianity is held by its adherents to be the only legitimate worldview for all of mankind, in all places, at all times. By words and actions, fundies tell us that they are resolutely convinced that their religion came to them in perfect form from the gods so that it will be in all places, for all times. That is the foundation of its unyielding intolerance and contempt (that's not too strong a phrase, BTW), for all other worldviews.

You say 'THIS' is the 'single most buttressed impediment to compatibility with the relevant world of science...' What is 'this'?

What is wrong exactly with a christian believing that their worldview, which they have obviously chosen for themselves, is the only legitimate worldview? Look in the mirror, that description fits you as well. What other worldview do you find legitimate that you don't agree with or adhere too?

The result of this rigid literalism in christianity is that fundies exempt their bibles and much of modern science from the debate that one will find in the rational, secular world where hard truths supplant ancient tales.

Is that was you consider a 'fundie', someone who takes the Bible 'literally'? If so, in what way?

Christian fundies are among the most static of all the world's religionists. The bibles and the amending versions of the bibles are the backbone, brains, heart, and martial law of a fundie's life. No matter what they're doing, however mundane, insignificant, or personal, if you're a fundamentalist, you must adhere to prescribed anti-science dogma.

The Bible has anti-science dogma in it? Not following you here.. But, your definition of a 'fundie' would most likely clear a few things up.

 

[Underhill]

What is your definition of a 'fundie'? All Christians? If not all, what distinguishes a 'normal' Christian from a 'fundie' Christian?

A fundie is a normal christian.

In fact many christians would tell you a fundamentalist christian is the only true christian.

Fundamentalist are essentially those christians who believe the bible as it is written in it's entirety. 6 day creation, the miracles were actual events, etc...

They often talk about the fundamentals of the faith. They vary slightly but here is a list I found in a 30 second google search.

The Five Fundamentals of the Faith.

- The Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ
- The Virgin Birth
- The Blood Atonement
- The Bodily Resurrection
- The Inerrancy of the Scriptures

My parents are fundamentalist. As was I at one time.