Oklahoma Will Charge Those Who Install Their Own Solar Panels

[OnePercenter]

As much as I hate using Wikipedia as a source, this is what they say...

"Integration with the grid

For reasons of reliability, distributed generation resources (individual solar/wind power*) would be interconnected to the same transmission grid as central stations. Various technical and economic issues occur in the integration of these resources into a grid. Technical problems arise in the areas of power quality, voltage stability, harmonics, reliability, protection, and control.[25] Behavior of protective devices on the grid must be examined for all combinations of distributed and central station generation.[26] A large scale deployment of distributed generation may affect grid-wide functions such as frequency control and allocation of reserves.[27] As a result smart grid functions, virtual power plants and grid energy storage such as power to gas stations are added to the grid."

(*) Added by me.


If the central provider must add protections and new equipment to adapt the distributed generation to the grid, it is not unreasonable to require the distributed generators to cover that cost instead of passing it on to other customers.

You guys are saps. ALL solar generation runs through inverters which eliminate noise and power fluctuations. The additional monies that Oklahoma now requires is to make up for lost profit.

You don't even understand the issues here. It isn't about noise or power fluctuations, it is about the fact that power companies cannot plan for the supply of solar power from individual homes. That means they have to keep other sources on standby, diverting them from other places they might be needed. You rich assholes think that you can force poor people to pay for your indulgences, we are rebelling.

The issue is that Republicans are protecting big business profits at the expense of the little guy. Your 'power companies don't have a back-up plan' doesn't fly.

 

[OnePercenter]

Want to explain how poor people subsidizing rich assholes, like you, who insist on getting paid by the utility company for fucking up the grid, is Republicans fucking over the little guy?

The poor, and to a greater extent the middle class subsidizing the rich has always been a Republican objective. Congrats! Your voting history has fucked you!

btw; the vast majority of home solar power generation is owned by middle class folks, and no matter what Republicans state, it doesn't fuck up the grid.

I love it when you say shit like that in a thread where you are complaining about Republicans cutting subsidies to rich people.

BTW, the vast majority of solar power generation is owned by people who are not poor.

So, 'The poor, and to a greater extent the middle class subsidizing the rich has always been a Republican objective'.

How's that deregulation working out for you?

 

[OnePercenter]

You said you "pay it like everyone else does". Does your additional equipment upkeep or issuance of credits designate extra employee to determine your refund or credit for the energy sold back? Does the company need to maintain additional components for the green energy? If the answer is 'yes' to any of those question, then all those people not able to afford green energy are paying for your additional equipment upkeep and the time it takes to cut the check for credits for your energy sold back. Why is that fair?

There is no equipment upkeep. Inverters auto reset, and batteries are solid core that require no maintenance.

Power meters run forward and backwards. So the meter reader or smart meter technology take care of that so no additional employees are required.

Almost all home green energy is owned by middle class folks. Millions in the US took advantage of China subsidizing their own companies which reduced costs to $6k for the average home, and with tax incentives brought that cost to $3k or less.

That was funny.

In theory, solid state devices will never fail. Funny thing, theory and the real world do not always agree with each other. Everything requires maintenance, anyone that doesn't understand that is an idiot.

Wrong. There is no maintenance, there will be failure. That's why I have a 25 year warranty.

 

[OnePercenter]

You said you "pay it like everyone else does". Does your additional equipment upkeep or issuance of credits designate extra employee to determine your refund or credit for the energy sold back? Does the company need to maintain additional components for the green energy? If the answer is 'yes' to any of those question, then all those people not able to afford green energy are paying for your additional equipment upkeep and the time it takes to cut the check for credits for your energy sold back. Why is that fair?

There is no equipment upkeep. Inverters auto reset, and batteries are solid core that require no maintenance.

Stop trying to use words you do not understand. Are you actually saying that inverters and batteries NEVER need ANY upkeep? Batteries last forever, then?

Edward Snowden is a traitor.

 

[OnePercenter]

No one has factored in the taxpayer subsidies that go to all installations that skew the real cost of installation, and that we all are paying for to make liberals feel good. And let me say from experience that inverters are great until they bloe up and then they wreck every piece of electronics they are hooked to.

What I keep finding short sighted, sorta like these mercury filled light bulbs we are mandated to use, is the much ballyhooed promise of batteries. Let's say electric cars and home use skyrocket for batteries. Who is ready for the pictures of mountains of batteries, like old tires, polluting the landscape with very toxic cocktails, or the factories( all run by republicans of course) making these lethal batteries and polluting the environment around them. The claim has been made that the disposal of these new light bulbs will release more mercury into the atmosphere than all coal plants combined. Real progress there from the enviros.


Leftists want to complain that business wants to take the cost of a couple of lattes away from them for the privilege of guaranteed and dependable power but call me a reject when I complain about them stealing thousands of dollars from me to pay for other peoples health care. Just another reason our country is upside down.

Helping the little guy save money to save money is a GREAT idea.

 

[OnePercenter]

You said you "pay it like everyone else does". Does your additional equipment upkeep or issuance of credits designate extra employee to determine your refund or credit for the energy sold back? Does the company need to maintain additional components for the green energy? If the answer is 'yes' to any of those question, then all those people not able to afford green energy are paying for your additional equipment upkeep and the time it takes to cut the check for credits for your energy sold back. Why is that fair?

There is no equipment upkeep. Inverters auto reset, and batteries are solid core that require no maintenance.

Power meters run forward and backwards. So the meter reader or smart meter technology take care of that so no additional employees are required.

Almost all home green energy is owned by middle class folks. Millions in the US took advantage of China subsidizing their own companies which reduced costs to $6k for the average home, and with tax incentives brought that cost to $3k or less.

What of those power companies who require 2 meters, one for incoming and the other outgoing? And "net meters' for net metering ( backward and forward), you pay for that since it does a different operation than the homes who do not have the same type? Not all home have net meters.

All equipment was installed by the solar company. The only thing the power company did was a five minute hook-up. If the electric companies meter isn't a 'net meter' than they should install one, after all, they charge you $150.00 to flip a switch.

Who reviews and prints the Solar Application and Interconnection Agreement's?

No idea.

Are there any extra devices needed due to 'islanding' or for anti-islanding devices?

All equipment is installed by the solar contractor.

Are you using their infrastructure at any time for the energy they are buying from you or visa versa for the energy you are generating for your home?

No. And again, this entire Oklahoma rip-off is about Republicans protecting profit for big business and ripping-off the little guy.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You guys are saps. ALL solar generation runs through inverters which eliminate noise and power fluctuations. The additional monies that Oklahoma now requires is to make up for lost profit.

You don't even understand the issues here. It isn't about noise or power fluctuations, it is about the fact that power companies cannot plan for the supply of solar power from individual homes. That means they have to keep other sources on standby, diverting them from other places they might be needed. You rich assholes think that you can force poor people to pay for your indulgences, we are rebelling.

The issue is that Republicans are protecting big business profits at the expense of the little guy. Your 'power companies don't have a back-up plan' doesn't fly.

I didn't say they don't have a backup plan, I said they can't plan on you. They have to keep other sources of power online, ready to gear up every single time you turn on your vacuum cleaner in order to compensate for the fluctuations form your house. The problem here is that you think the backup plan is free. That is because, despite your claim to actually be a business owner, you never had to figure out how things work in the real world.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The poor, and to a greater extent the middle class subsidizing the rich has always been a Republican objective. Congrats! Your voting history has fucked you!

btw; the vast majority of home solar power generation is owned by middle class folks, and no matter what Republicans state, it doesn't fuck up the grid.

I love it when you say shit like that in a thread where you are complaining about Republicans cutting subsidies to rich people.

BTW, the vast majority of solar power generation is owned by people who are not poor.

So, 'The poor, and to a greater extent the middle class subsidizing the rich has always been a Republican objective'.

How's that deregulation working out for you?

No.

Subsidizing the rich has always been the goal of the government. It really doesn't matter which party is in charge, the government always subsidizes the rich via the middle class. That is because, despite all the harping from the class warriors, the middle class has most of the wealth in this country.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There is no equipment upkeep. Inverters auto reset, and batteries are solid core that require no maintenance.

Power meters run forward and backwards. So the meter reader or smart meter technology take care of that so no additional employees are required.

Almost all home green energy is owned by middle class folks. Millions in the US took advantage of China subsidizing their own companies which reduced costs to $6k for the average home, and with tax incentives brought that cost to $3k or less.

That was funny.

In theory, solid state devices will never fail. Funny thing, theory and the real world do not always agree with each other. Everything requires maintenance, anyone that doesn't understand that is an idiot.

Wrong. There is no maintenance, there will be failure. That's why I have a 25 year warranty.

That is the single most hilarious thing I have ever read, thanks for the laugh.

 

[blackhawk]

OMG, I guess the Right is desperate to fight solar power.

Oklahoma Will Charge Customers Who Install Their Own Solar Panels | NationofChange

Oklahoma residents who produce their own energy through solar panels or small wind turbines on their property will now be charged an additional fee, the result of a new bill passed by the state legislature and expected to be signed into law by Gov. Mary Fallin (R).
<more>

The bill passed in the House 83-5 after already passing in the Senate so unless there are only five Democrats in the Oklahoma House it has a lot of support from the left as well.

 

[Grandma]

OMG, I guess the Right is desperate to fight solar power.

Oklahoma Will Charge Customers Who Install Their Own Solar Panels | NationofChange

Oklahoma residents who produce their own energy through solar panels or small wind turbines on their property will now be charged an additional fee, the result of a new bill passed by the state legislature and expected to be signed into law by Gov. Mary Fallin (R).
<more>

OMG, I guess the idiots still blame everything on Republicans.

Did you know that people who sell energy back to the grid raises the costs for everyone else? That if the green energy lobby didn't have the lobbying muscle, and the unconditional support if idiots, it could be challenged under disparate impact as racism? Why the fuck should poor people pay for rich people to get more money?

So you're saying that those who provide electricity to the grid should not be reimbursed but should instead pay for it? By that logic, the utility companies in OK owe the taxpayers a few trillion by now.

 

[Grandma]

Liberals want everything to be free. The Utility companies didn't built that......

The utility companies didn't build it.. The homeowner did. Why should homeowners be punished for providing their excess energy to the grid?

 

[Grandma]

"The measure directs utilities to recover the costs of providing electrical infrastructure to homes or businesses with solar panels or small wind turbines, The Oklahoman reported (Solar advocates worry about Oklahoma legislation for surcharge | News OK ) Saturday. The costs would be determined through a rate tariff filed with the Oklahoma Corporation Commission."

Oklahoma solar, wind energy users worry about legislation that would add fee to utility bill - Seymour Tribune

That's total BULLSHIT.

When a person places alternate devices on his/her house, everything is included and installed by the solar/wind company. The ONLY thing the utility does is connect to the grid (which is the utilities requirement) which costs you $125.00 for 5 minutes work. I've been there, bought it, had it installed, and am reaping the benefits.

This is nothing more than Oklahoma Republicans fucking the little guy.

Who pays for the upkeep of the grid?

The power lines, the utility poles? Is it unreasonable to charge for the use of the infrastructure when the meter is being rolled back?

I pay a Heavy Vehicle Use tax to the Federal Government annually to use the federal highway system for commerce, and I pay states by the mile to use their roads.

Why should selling power be any different?

International Fuel Tax Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Form 2290, Heavy Highway Vehicle Use Tax Return

Because you aren't selling the road, you're using it.

Since green energy homeowners are providing the energy, they should be paid for it. They should be paid fairly for the energy they provide, not for the power lines.

 

[Zander]

Liberals want everything to be free. The Utility companies didn't built that......

The utility companies didn't build it.. The homeowner did. Why should homeowners be punished for providing their excess energy to the grid?

Paying a small fee for using the Utility company infrastructure is not punishment.

Otherwise, fuck off and buy the batteries. Walk the walk or STFU.

 

[Zander]

That's total BULLSHIT.

When a person places alternate devices on his/her house, everything is included and installed by the solar/wind company. The ONLY thing the utility does is connect to the grid (which is the utilities requirement) which costs you $125.00 for 5 minutes work. I've been there, bought it, had it installed, and am reaping the benefits.

This is nothing more than Oklahoma Republicans fucking the little guy.

Who pays for the upkeep of the grid?

The power lines, the utility poles? Is it unreasonable to charge for the use of the infrastructure when the meter is being rolled back?

I pay a Heavy Vehicle Use tax to the Federal Government annually to use the federal highway system for commerce, and I pay states by the mile to use their roads.

Why should selling power be any different?

International Fuel Tax Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Form 2290, Heavy Highway Vehicle Use Tax Return

Because you aren't selling the road, you're using it.

Since green energy homeowners are providing the energy, they should be paid for it. They should be paid fairly for the energy they provide, not for the power lines.

You have a serious misunderstanding of net metering.

You should refrain from commenting on topics you do not understand. It makes you look stupid.

 

[Grandma]

I cannot see putting yourself through the regulatory bullshit. If you're out to save bucks and will live in the same place for several years...some say 5, some say 10...then a solar (or wind if you're into climbing poles, towers, or just a masochist) system WITH STORAGE is your meat.

How much storage? Varies with what you're trying to accomplish. You could figure out how much you'd need to get through the longest period you expect to be without sun or without wind and buy enough capacity for that. Yeah, batteries are spendy and have to be maintained. Still, there IS payback. Don't overlook that you need some sort or regulation or "reject load" so that you don't overcharge batteries when your private source (solar/wind) is making more than you need.

To moderate the battery requirement you need a proper changeover switch. It can be manual or any of several flavours of automatic. For example, a system can be set up to jump from local to grid power (OK, there will be a momentary glitch) when the batteries fall below a set level.

So long as you're not selling power back to the utility, only using power when you want or need to, then there's none of the BS of synchronization or grid costs. In some place there may be minimum billing so you have to factor that in.

You can also do some clever things where timed usage is available. Use grid power when their rates are lowest; jump to stored (battery) when they're high.

Takes imagination and a decent electrician who is familiar with alternative energy sources.

All the above is about preventing being ripped off as much as possible. Not intended to "save the planet" as anyone who believes humans can save the planet are the most arrogant of assholes as you'll see below momentarily.

Dammit, why'd you have to go and make a fairly sensible post? Bastard.

" In some place there may be minimum billing so you have to factor that in.'

Yep.
There are always connection fees and use of equipment fees and a bunch of little surcharges in there, so no one's green energy would be totally "free," there would still be a bill for $5 or $10 or so every month.

 

[OnePercenter]

You don't even understand the issues here. It isn't about noise or power fluctuations, it is about the fact that power companies cannot plan for the supply of solar power from individual homes. That means they have to keep other sources on standby, diverting them from other places they might be needed. You rich assholes think that you can force poor people to pay for your indulgences, we are rebelling.

The issue is that Republicans are protecting big business profits at the expense of the little guy. Your 'power companies don't have a back-up plan' doesn't fly.

I didn't say they don't have a backup plan, I said they can't plan on you. They have to keep other sources of power online, ready to gear up every single time you turn on your vacuum cleaner in order to compensate for the fluctuations form your house. The problem here is that you think the backup plan is free. That is because, despite your claim to actually be a business owner, you never had to figure out how things work in the real world.

You're funny. Anything to defer the fact that the folks you voted are fucking with the middle class again. Nice try though.

 

[OnePercenter]

I love it when you say shit like that in a thread where you are complaining about Republicans cutting subsidies to rich people.

BTW, the vast majority of solar power generation is owned by people who are not poor.

So, 'The poor, and to a greater extent the middle class subsidizing the rich has always been a Republican objective'.

How's that deregulation working out for you?

No.

Subsidizing the rich has always been the goal of the government. It really doesn't matter which party is in charge, the government always subsidizes the rich via the middle class. That is because, despite all the harping from the class warriors, the middle class has most of the wealth in this country.

Sure. That's why the dems have been on the forefront of deregulation.

 

[OnePercenter]

That was funny.

In theory, solid state devices will never fail. Funny thing, theory and the real world do not always agree with each other. Everything requires maintenance, anyone that doesn't understand that is an idiot.

Wrong. There is no maintenance, there will be failure. That's why I have a 25 year warranty.

That is the single most hilarious thing I have ever read, thanks for the laugh.

List the maintenance for an OutBack Power Inverter. This should be good.

 

[OnePercenter]

OMG, I guess the Right is desperate to fight solar power.

Oklahoma Will Charge Customers Who Install Their Own Solar Panels | NationofChange

Oklahoma residents who produce their own energy through solar panels or small wind turbines on their property will now be charged an additional fee, the result of a new bill passed by the state legislature and expected to be signed into law by Gov. Mary Fallin (R).
<more>

OMG, I guess the idiots still blame everything on Republicans.

Did you know that people who sell energy back to the grid raises the costs for everyone else? That if the green energy lobby didn't have the lobbying muscle, and the unconditional support if idiots, it could be challenged under disparate impact as racism? Why the fuck should poor people pay for rich people to get more money?

So you're saying that those who provide electricity to the grid should not be reimbursed but should instead pay for it? By that logic, the utility companies in OK owe the taxpayers a few trillion by now.

There is no logic when the soiled masses attempt to delusionally support the Republicans.