Oil Speculators on Wallstreet are the Problem

[g5000]

Meaning why would anyone invest in anything they know is overvalued????

Simple. Because they don't know it is overvalued. They are being advised by a Goldman Sachs analyst that oil will hit $200 a barrel on one hand, and being sold oil futures for $110 a barrel by a Goldman Sachs trader on the other, thinking they are smart players. They are clueless they are being gamed.

It's the oldest trick on the book, and your idiot fund manager falls for it time and time and time again.

 

[sealybobo]

All the people blaming speculators are basically saying the market is not an efficent platform. Sure speculators may drive up prices for a while, but the market ALWAYS corrects to reflect demand.

So, the market will always correct to reflect demand?
What if the speculators were the ones running the show?


What would the price of oil be if left to conventional supply-and-demand fundamentals? Canada is the largest supplier of imported oil to the United States, which produces more than half the oil it consumes. Production and delivery costs for a barrel of Canadian oil are about $75 a barrel. The market-fundamentals cost for a barrel is in that ballpark; above that, speculation sets the prices.

"It's as simple as that," said Gheit, who has testified before Congress and called for regulatory limits on speculation in commodities.

Financial speculators historically accounted for about 30 percent of oil trading in commodity markets; producers and end users made up about 70 percent. Today, it's almost the reverse.

A review of data from the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, which regulates oil trading, shows producers and merchants made up 36 percent and speculators 64 percent of all contracts traded in the week ending Feb. 14.
Speculators blamed for rising oil, gas prices | Seattle Times Newspaper


It seems to me, that the market ARE THE SPECULATORS!

Who voted to cut the budget of the Commodities and Futures Trading Commission? You know, the government body charged with ending illegal speculation in commodity markets? Oh, that's right. The republicans TO A MAN. HR 2112.


Anything else you want to add?

What he or you are saying doesn't make any sense. Why in God's name would any investor purposely create an artifical bubble? Why?

Why would a company want to over value their product?

 

[Dick Tuck]

Sure did.

Are you another who just gets information, does not understand iut...but regurgitates it anyway?

Increase domestic production results in less cost per gallon of gas created during the refining process......makes exporting costs larger in comparison....and makes domestic sales more attractive.

Whatever....I am dealing with a bunch of idiots on this site.

The fact remains that 64% of futures contracts, in oil, are bought and sold by people who will never deliver supply or accept delivery. The CEO of XOM, himself stated that oil should be in the $60-$70 range, if it weren't for speculators. Increasing domestic production is a joke in the global market where oil is traded.

I guess you just dont want to get it.

Increase domestic production results in an increase in domestic refiners and an increase in domestic distributers.

Increase vendors results in a decrease in vendor pricing.

You are stuck on the left wing talking point of "world markets".

EVERYTHING is now deemed world market.

Just becuase it is traded does not mean prices are not affected by supply and demand.

Jeez...I just dont get it. DO any of you actually try to understand what you read...or do you just take it as Gods word when you reasd it.

Do a little research....LEARN SOMETHING.

Are you really this batshit simpleminded? Do you really believe that big oil is going to give us a break if they get their oil here or off the coast of Vietnam. Dude, most of the oil coming out of Alaska is put on ships, and sent to Asia.

What part of global commodity are you too ******* stupid to understand? What part of 64% of global oil being controlled by people who will never deliver or accept delivery for are you too ******* stupid to understand?

 

[francoHFW]

There's also the Rwers ramping up the "Bomb Iran" crap in the US and Israel which btw the a-hole RWers in Iran love...despite NO EVIDENCE Iran has decided to make nuke bombs...

Pibs also love cutting welfare and disability investigators and then bitching about fraud....same with banking, big oil, health care, and everything else...stupid hypocritical a-holes and their dumbazz dupes...

This weeks lobotomy was a complete failure, better luck next week

Coming from a fact-free moron dittohead like you. I take that as a tribute...tyvm

 

[Jarhead]

Let us also not forget that the GOP wanted to CUT the budget of the entity charged with stopping speculation.


Congressional Republicans’ plan to cut Commodity Futures Trading Commission funding to 2008 levels would allow for manipulation of energy markets and could lead to higher U.S. oil prices, Senate Democrats said in a letter.

“At a time where gas prices are rising and squeezing American families, we have a responsibility to provide our watchdogs the resources they need to fulfill their important oversight and regulatory responsibilities,” the lawmakers wrote in a letter scheduled to be sent today to Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker John Boehner.

The proposed cuts would undermine the CFTC, which protects American consumers by “cracking down on manipulation and other market abuses,” according to the letter signed by more than 40 of the Senate’s 51 Democrats.

The $169 million budget for the CFTC, which has authority under the Dodd-Frank Act to write derivatives regulations, has been caught in a stalemate between Republicans aiming to cut spending and Democrats looking to pay for the new rules.

Republicans, who took control of the House and narrowed the Democrats’ Senate majority in November elections, proposed cutting the CFTC’s budget by $56.8 million for the current fiscal year. The agency’s budget would increase to $308 million under President Obama’s fiscal 2012 proposal presented Feb. 14.

CFTC Chairman Gary Gensler has said the budget for this year is “far less” than what is needed to fulfill the agency’s responsibilities under Dodd-Frank, the regulatory overhaul enacted in July. A funding reduction would lead the CFTC to cut its staff, Gensler told senators on March 3.




Senate Democrats Say CFTC Budget Cut Could Increase Oil Prices - Bloomberg


SO more than a YEAR ago, senate dems were warning of this and the reasons why it would happen.

OUCH!

This really puts a damper on those poor RepubliCONZ blaming anyone but themselves for the high gas prices.

If only a liberal media existed that would educate the American people on what is really going on.

P.S. Republicans bring up oil speculation or drill baby drill just like when we were trying to get healthcare reform passed and they wanted to talk about tort reform. Do anything to control/change the subject.

Did you ask Rachel Maddow if you could regurgitate word for word what she says?

Do you even know what tort reform is?

Are you aware that the single largest expense to a doctor is mal pracitice insurance? Are you aware that most doctors are never found guiolty of mal practice, but the insuracne company settles becuase it is cheaper than a long drawn out law suit?

But bringing up tort reform is "changing the subject" as it pertains to healthcare costs.

How mindless are you? Do you have any thought of your own?

 

[Rocko]

What he or you are saying doesn't make any sense. Why in God's name would any investor purposely create an artifical bubble? Why?

To steal money from your pocket. Your retirement fund manager is the rube being robbed.

doesn't make sense. Esentially what your talking about is a larg pump and dump, and it's not possible in this case in that large a scle where prices would be effected.

 

[Dick Tuck]

So, the market will always correct to reflect demand?
What if the speculators were the ones running the show?


What would the price of oil be if left to conventional supply-and-demand fundamentals? Canada is the largest supplier of imported oil to the United States, which produces more than half the oil it consumes. Production and delivery costs for a barrel of Canadian oil are about $75 a barrel. The market-fundamentals cost for a barrel is in that ballpark; above that, speculation sets the prices.

"It's as simple as that," said Gheit, who has testified before Congress and called for regulatory limits on speculation in commodities.

Financial speculators historically accounted for about 30 percent of oil trading in commodity markets; producers and end users made up about 70 percent. Today, it's almost the reverse.

A review of data from the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, which regulates oil trading, shows producers and merchants made up 36 percent and speculators 64 percent of all contracts traded in the week ending Feb. 14.
Speculators blamed for rising oil, gas prices | Seattle Times Newspaper


It seems to me, that the market ARE THE SPECULATORS!

Who voted to cut the budget of the Commodities and Futures Trading Commission? You know, the government body charged with ending illegal speculation in commodity markets? Oh, that's right. The republicans TO A MAN. HR 2112.


Anything else you want to add?

What he or you are saying doesn't make any sense. Why in God's name would any investor purposely create an artifical bubble? Why?

Why would a company want to over value their product?

Because they can make more money when they can get away with it. Do you really think that multinational oil companies care about moms driving their kids to soccer games?

 

[Jarhead]

The fact remains that 64% of futures contracts, in oil, are bought and sold by people who will never deliver supply or accept delivery. The CEO of XOM, himself stated that oil should be in the $60-$70 range, if it weren't for speculators. Increasing domestic production is a joke in the global market where oil is traded.

I guess you just dont want to get it.

Increase domestic production results in an increase in domestic refiners and an increase in domestic distributers.

Increase vendors results in a decrease in vendor pricing.

You are stuck on the left wing talking point of "world markets".

EVERYTHING is now deemed world market.

Just becuase it is traded does not mean prices are not affected by supply and demand.

Jeez...I just dont get it. DO any of you actually try to understand what you read...or do you just take it as Gods word when you reasd it.

Do a little research....LEARN SOMETHING.

Are you really this batshit simpleminded? Do you really believe that big oil is going to give us a break if they get their oil here or off the coast of Vietnam. Dude, most of the oil coming out of Alaska is put on ships, and sent to Asia.

What part of global commodity are you too ******* stupid to understand? What part of 64% of global oil being controlled by people who will never deliver or accept delivery for are you too ******* stupid to understand?

Listen up skippy...

Looking at your post...it is quite evident that this topic is way to deep for you.

It reuqires independent thinking.

Vendor pricing is the issue.....you just dont want to undersatand what I mean by that...and i am not going to even try to educate you.

Why?

Becuase it will make you see the light....and you dont want to see it.

 

[Decepticon]

Yo...

Many did go under and the rest needed a bailout.


******* clueless.....

My point is that the money had been MADE by the point of the collapse, hadn't it?

Are you saying that the market self regulates so as NOT to nearly destroy itself?

Yeah. Good luck reconciling that opinion with reality.

If there was no government intervention in the ledning market......yes, it would have self regulated itself.

If you were a buisness owner you would understand this.

Banks knew it wasnt a good idea...but they were forced to do it thanks to the CRA and assholes like Rangel, Dodd and Frank.

LMAO...you just assume business owners are willing to risk it all to make a windfall.

You are wrong.

No one puts their blood and life into something to then simply risk it to make a windfall.

Jeez....you are pathetic.

So the market would have corrected itself eventually? What would have happened to the economy while that happened? Hmmm....Mr. Brainiac? Any jobs lost? Any economic upheaval? Yeah...the market would have corrected itself. SURE it would. We just needed to wait while the entire economy got sucked down the hole along with them. Brilliant. Utterly brilliant. Probably 100 MILLION AMERICANS out of work. What a GREAT RESULT!

Talk about pathetic.
For all your faith in the private market and your pessimism about government intervention, it was the private market that brought us to the brink of another great depression and it was government intervention that kept us out. That is a simple fact that even your CON brethren would not dispute.

THe CRA?
What are the penalties for NON COMPLIANCE with the CRA? Hmmm?
HOW were banks PUNISHED by not participating in the VOLUNTARY program?

It's impossible to argue with someone who will simply outright LIE.

 

[Rocko]

Meaning why would anyone invest in anything they know is overvalued????

Simple. Because they don't know it is overvalued. They are being advised by a Goldman Sachs analyst that oil will hit $200 a barrel on one hand, and being sold oil futures for $110 a barrel by a Goldman Sachs trader on the other, thinking they are smart players. They are clueless they are being gamed.

It's the oldest trick on the book, and your idiot fund manager falls for it time and time and time again.

Well that's diffrent from what these guys were arguing. they were saying it's a conspiracy by speculatiors to create false price for some elaborate scheme. I still wouldn't really agree with you, but that's different.

 

[Jarhead]

What he or you are saying doesn't make any sense. Why in God's name would any investor purposely create an artifical bubble? Why?

Why would a company want to over value their product?

Because they can make more money when they can get away with it. Do you really think that multinational oil companies care about moms driving their kids to soccer games?

so then why isnt food overpriced skippy?

Huh?

I mean...if the market got together and said....
"lets over value our product"...what would the soccer moms be able to do about it? Nothing...they need to eat.

So?

Why are food prices over valued?

Dont even try to answer....I will toss it right back at ya....you are out of your league here.

 

[Dick Tuck]

I guess you just dont want to get it.

Increase domestic production results in an increase in domestic refiners and an increase in domestic distributers.

Increase vendors results in a decrease in vendor pricing.

You are stuck on the left wing talking point of "world markets".

EVERYTHING is now deemed world market.

Just becuase it is traded does not mean prices are not affected by supply and demand.

Jeez...I just dont get it. DO any of you actually try to understand what you read...or do you just take it as Gods word when you reasd it.

Do a little research....LEARN SOMETHING.

Are you really this batshit simpleminded? Do you really believe that big oil is going to give us a break if they get their oil here or off the coast of Vietnam. Dude, most of the oil coming out of Alaska is put on ships, and sent to Asia.

What part of global commodity are you too ******* stupid to understand? What part of 64% of global oil being controlled by people who will never deliver or accept delivery for are you too ******* stupid to understand?

Listen up skippy...

Looking at your post...it is quite evident that this topic is way to deep for you.

It reuqires independent thinking.

Vendor pricing is the issue.....you just dont want to undersatand what I mean by that...and i am not going to even try to educate you.

Why?

Becuase it will make you see the light....and you dont want to see it.

Vendor pricing my ass. The vendors are buying gas from suppliers. The vendors want maximum market share in their small neck of the woods. They still have to live with the prices set by distributors, and that's clearly been skewed by oil speculators. Are you really so ******* dumb that you don't understand that?

 

[Jarhead]

My point is that the money had been MADE by the point of the collapse, hadn't it?

Are you saying that the market self regulates so as NOT to nearly destroy itself?

Yeah. Good luck reconciling that opinion with reality.

If there was no government intervention in the ledning market......yes, it would have self regulated itself.

If you were a buisness owner you would understand this.

Banks knew it wasnt a good idea...but they were forced to do it thanks to the CRA and assholes like Rangel, Dodd and Frank.

LMAO...you just assume business owners are willing to risk it all to make a windfall.

You are wrong.

No one puts their blood and life into something to then simply risk it to make a windfall.

Jeez....you are pathetic.

So the market would have corrected itself eventually? What would have happened to the economy while that happened? Hmmm....Mr. Brainiac? Any jobs lost? Any economic upheaval? Yeah...the market would have corrected itself. SURE it would. We just needed to wait while the entire economy got sucked down the hole along with them. Brilliant. Utterly brilliant. Probably 100 MILLION AMERICANS out of work. What a GREAT RESULT!

Talk about pathetic.
For all your faith in the private market and your pessimism about government intervention, it was the private market that brought us to the brink of another great depression and it was government intervention that kept us out. That is a simple fact that even your CON brethren would not dispute.

THe CRA?
What are the penalties for NON COMPLIANCE with the CRA? Hmmm?
HOW were banks PUNISHED by not participating in the VOLUNTARY program?

It's impossible to argue with someone who will simply outright LIE.

Pay attention...

Stay focused....

There would have been no reason for a correction.

 

[Rocko]

My point is that the money had been MADE by the point of the collapse, hadn't it?

Are you saying that the market self regulates so as NOT to nearly destroy itself?

Yeah. Good luck reconciling that opinion with reality.

If there was no government intervention in the ledning market......yes, it would have self regulated itself.

If you were a buisness owner you would understand this.

Banks knew it wasnt a good idea...but they were forced to do it thanks to the CRA and assholes like Rangel, Dodd and Frank.

LMAO...you just assume business owners are willing to risk it all to make a windfall.

You are wrong.

No one puts their blood and life into something to then simply risk it to make a windfall.

Jeez....you are pathetic.

So the market would have corrected itself eventually? What would have happened to the economy while that happened? Hmmm....Mr. Brainiac? Any jobs lost? Any economic upheaval? Yeah...the market would have corrected itself. SURE it would. We just needed to wait while the entire economy got sucked down the hole along with them. Brilliant. Utterly brilliant. Probably 100 MILLION AMERICANS out of work. What a GREAT RESULT!

Talk about pathetic.
For all your faith in the private market and your pessimism about government intervention, it was the private market that brought us to the brink of another great depression and it was government intervention that kept us out. That is a simple fact that even your CON brethren would not dispute.

THe CRA?
What are the penalties for NON COMPLIANCE with the CRA? Hmmm?
HOW were banks PUNISHED by not participating in the VOLUNTARY program?

It's impossible to argue with someone who will simply outright LIE.

Stop, seriously stop.

 

[Jarhead]

Are you really this batshit simpleminded? Do you really believe that big oil is going to give us a break if they get their oil here or off the coast of Vietnam. Dude, most of the oil coming out of Alaska is put on ships, and sent to Asia.

What part of global commodity are you too ******* stupid to understand? What part of 64% of global oil being controlled by people who will never deliver or accept delivery for are you too ******* stupid to understand?

Listen up skippy...

Looking at your post...it is quite evident that this topic is way to deep for you.

It reuqires independent thinking.

Vendor pricing is the issue.....you just dont want to undersatand what I mean by that...and i am not going to even try to educate you.

Why?

Becuase it will make you see the light....and you dont want to see it.

Vendor pricing my ass. The vendors are buying gas from suppliers. The vendors want maximum market share in their small neck of the woods. They still have to live with the prices set by distributors, and that's clearly been skewed by oil speculators. Are you really so ******* dumb that you don't understand that?

Jeez...

The SUPPLIERS are vendors themselves.

Do you have any idea where gasoline comes from?

Do you?

 

[Jarhead]

If there was no government intervention in the ledning market......yes, it would have self regulated itself.

If you were a buisness owner you would understand this.

Banks knew it wasnt a good idea...but they were forced to do it thanks to the CRA and assholes like Rangel, Dodd and Frank.

LMAO...you just assume business owners are willing to risk it all to make a windfall.

You are wrong.

No one puts their blood and life into something to then simply risk it to make a windfall.

Jeez....you are pathetic.

So the market would have corrected itself eventually? What would have happened to the economy while that happened? Hmmm....Mr. Brainiac? Any jobs lost? Any economic upheaval? Yeah...the market would have corrected itself. SURE it would. We just needed to wait while the entire economy got sucked down the hole along with them. Brilliant. Utterly brilliant. Probably 100 MILLION AMERICANS out of work. What a GREAT RESULT!

Talk about pathetic.
For all your faith in the private market and your pessimism about government intervention, it was the private market that brought us to the brink of another great depression and it was government intervention that kept us out. That is a simple fact that even your CON brethren would not dispute.

THe CRA?
What are the penalties for NON COMPLIANCE with the CRA? Hmmm?
HOW were banks PUNISHED by not participating in the VOLUNTARY program?

It's impossible to argue with someone who will simply outright LIE.

Stop, seriously stop.

The child is regurgitating what he hears from left wing talking heads.

He is clueless about the topic.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Why would a company want to over value their product?

Because they can make more money when they can get away with it. Do you really think that multinational oil companies care about moms driving their kids to soccer games?

so then why isnt food overpriced skippy?

Huh?

I mean...if the market got together and said....
"lets over value our product"...what would the soccer moms be able to do about it? Nothing...they need to eat.

So?

Why are food prices over valued?

Dont even try to answer....I will toss it right back at ya....you are out of your league here.

Because speculation in hog bellies isn't as easy as speculation in oil? Perhaps because hog bellies have zero value in much of the world? Because hog bellies don't have as much of impact on the economy as does the pump price. Are you a complete idiot?

 

[sealybobo]

All the people blaming speculators are basically saying the market is not an efficent platform. Sure speculators may drive up prices for a while, but the market ALWAYS corrects to reflect demand.

You need to take Ron Paul's hand out of your ass you puppet. First of all, oil companies aren't free markets that should be unregulated. If you want to build a product and sell it in the USA, then you can sell it on the free market. But Oil companies, like Healthcare insurance companies and Wallstreet, need to be regulated. Stop thinking that the billionaire robber barons are playing by the same rules that you and I play by. For that you middle class Republicans are sooo stupid. You think free unregulated markets are going to save you money? HA! UPS tried to charge me $60 to ship something to Switzerland. The USPost Office was under $10.

First of all, the US Government is GIVING the oil companies our land to drill for really cheap prices! Too cheap. Its a monopoly. And they don't pay their fair share of taxes like you and I. Nor do they pass on the savings to us. So stop thinking that they are doing free trade. It is unfair trade.

And if we let them do free unregulated trade on gas, then just like healthcare, eventually too many Americans won't be able to afford to drive. And do you think the oil companies care? When unregulated, they let poor granny die without heat in the winter. Remember that?

Same reason healthcare needs to be regulated. If left up to free markets, those monopolies can maximize profits by raising the prices until 10 million more Americans can't afford health insurance. Should they be allowed.

 

[Jarhead]

Are you really this batshit simpleminded? Do you really believe that big oil is going to give us a break if they get their oil here or off the coast of Vietnam. Dude, most of the oil coming out of Alaska is put on ships, and sent to Asia.

What part of global commodity are you too ******* stupid to understand? What part of 64% of global oil being controlled by people who will never deliver or accept delivery for are you too ******* stupid to understand?

Listen up skippy...

Looking at your post...it is quite evident that this topic is way to deep for you.

It reuqires independent thinking.

Vendor pricing is the issue.....you just dont want to undersatand what I mean by that...and i am not going to even try to educate you.

Why?

Becuase it will make you see the light....and you dont want to see it.

Vendor pricing my ass. The vendors are buying gas from suppliers. The vendors want maximum market share in their small neck of the woods. They still have to live with the prices set by distributors, and that's clearly been skewed by oil speculators. Are you really so ******* dumb that you don't understand that?

here is a hint...

Gasoline is a BI PRODCUT of oil refining.

You are out of your league...dont go there with me.

You will leave in shame.

I promise you that.

 

[Jarhead]

Because they can make more money when they can get away with it. Do you really think that multinational oil companies care about moms driving their kids to soccer games?

so then why isnt food overpriced skippy?

Huh?

I mean...if the market got together and said....
"lets over value our product"...what would the soccer moms be able to do about it? Nothing...they need to eat.

So?

Why are food prices over valued?

Dont even try to answer....I will toss it right back at ya....you are out of your league here.

Because speculation in hog bellies isn't as easy as speculation in oil? Perhaps because hog bellies have zero value in much of the world? Because hog bellies don't have as much of impact on the economy as does the pump price. Are you a complete idiot?

Asshole...stop it....you are making an ass of yourself.

OK...how about automobiles?

I know...you will find an excuse for anything.

Whatever....give it up....you are already defeated.