Ohio passes Stand Your Ground bill

[Batcat]

If Zimmerman had simply called the police and went on his way we would not be discussing this today.

Probably not. But on the other hand, if Martin didn't attack Zimmerman, he'd probably be alive today too; in prison? Likely, but at least he'd be alive.

Martin felt threatened. This entire law is about people being able to protect themselves when they feel threatened.

If he felt threatened, why didn't he run back to the house he was staying at?

Why doesn't everyone that feels threatened simply run? If everyone did that, there would be no need for this law, right?

(he told his girlfriend why he felt threatened)

Some of us can’t run. With my back and hip problems I could only hope that my running would cause my attacker to laugh so hard that he wouldn’t chase and catch me.

There is nothing wrong with using that tactic if you can to avoid a confrontation. I learned that when I took a jujitsu class years ago. The object is to survive an incident not be a hero.

it is also possible that you might be in an area where running away can be difficult such as a dark alley you are unfamiliar with.

If your attacker has a firearm he may shoot you dead while you are trying to run away. Not all bad guys are terrible shooters.

 

[pknopp]

If Zimmerman had simply called the police and went on his way we would not be discussing this today.

Probably not. But on the other hand, if Martin didn't attack Zimmerman, he'd probably be alive today too; in prison? Likely, but at least he'd be alive.

Martin felt threatened. This entire law is about people being able to protect themselves when they feel threatened.

If he felt threatened, why didn't he run back to the house he was staying at?

Why doesn't everyone that feels threatened simply run? If everyone did that, there would be no need for this law, right?

(he told his girlfriend why he felt threatened)

Some of us can’t run. With my back and hip problems I could only hope that my running would cause my attacker to laugh so hard that he wouldn’t chase and catch me.

There is nothing wrong with using that tactic if you can to avoid a confrontation. I learned that when I took a jujitsu class years ago. The object is to survive an incident not be a hero.

it is also possible that you might be in an area where running away can be difficult such as a dark alley you are unfamiliar with.

If your attacker has a firearm he may shoot you dead while you are trying to run away. Not all bad guys are terrible shooters.

But with the law being discussed you are under no obligation to do so, correct? If you feel threatened you can act towards the threat. Right?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Some of us can’t run. With my back and hip problems I could only hope that my running would cause my attacker to laugh so hard that he wouldn’t chase and catch me.

There is nothing wrong with using that tactic if you can to avoid a confrontation. I learned that when I took a jujitsu class years ago. The object is to survive an incident not be a hero.

it is also possible that you might be in an area where running away can be difficult such as a dark alley you are unfamiliar with.

If your attacker has a firearm he may shoot you dead while you are trying to run away. Not all bad guys are terrible shooters.

The entire concept is this is America, and you shouldn't have to run away if you don't want to or are incapable. I carry a firearm today not only because the neighborhood went to hell, but I'm 60 now, and like you, have several medical conditions that preclude me from getting into a fist fight with an attacker.

25 years ago, no problem. At 6'3", 230 lbs, in great shape, a black belt, I had no worries. Nobody used guns around here either, and I was trained in self-defense against people with other weapons. I also had no problems because most people took one look at me, and decided I wasn't somebody they wanted to get into a scrap with.

Now I have to depend on my firearm in the event of an attack. I want to be able to use it in confidence that I won't end up in prison for simply taking a stand or defending myself.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

But with the law being discussed you are under no obligation to do so, correct? If you feel threatened you can act towards the threat. Right?

No, not at all. You just don't have to retreat from a threat.

 

[pknopp]

But with the law being discussed you are under no obligation to do so, correct? If you feel threatened you can act towards the threat. Right?

No, not at all. You just don't have to retreat from a threat.

But you wanted Trayvon to.

 

[Batcat]

If Zimmerman had simply called the police and went on his way we would not be discussing this today.

Probably not. But on the other hand, if Martin didn't attack Zimmerman, he'd probably be alive today too; in prison? Likely, but at least he'd be alive.

Martin felt threatened. This entire law is about people being able to protect themselves when they feel threatened.

If he felt threatened, why didn't he run back to the house he was staying at?

Why doesn't everyone that feels threatened simply run? If everyone did that, there would be no need for this law, right?

(he told his girlfriend why he felt threatened)

Some of us can’t run. With my back and hip problems I could only hope that my running would cause my attacker to laugh so hard that he wouldn’t chase and catch me.

There is nothing wrong with using that tactic if you can to avoid a confrontation. I learned that when I took a jujitsu class years ago. The object is to survive an incident not be a hero.

it is also possible that you might be in an area where running away can be difficult such as a dark alley you are unfamiliar with.

If your attacker has a firearm he may shoot you dead while you are trying to run away. Not all bad guys are terrible shooters.

But with the law being discussed you are under no obligation to do so, correct? If you feel threatened you can act towards the threat. Right?

I am a Florida resident and as I understand the law in my state if you are where you can legally be and not doing anything illegal and you are attacked you can chose to stand your ground. You could also run if that was your choice.

Note: I am not an attorney And I don’t play one on TV.

 

[pknopp]

If Zimmerman had simply called the police and went on his way we would not be discussing this today.

Probably not. But on the other hand, if Martin didn't attack Zimmerman, he'd probably be alive today too; in prison? Likely, but at least he'd be alive.

Martin felt threatened. This entire law is about people being able to protect themselves when they feel threatened.

If he felt threatened, why didn't he run back to the house he was staying at?

Why doesn't everyone that feels threatened simply run? If everyone did that, there would be no need for this law, right?

(he told his girlfriend why he felt threatened)

Some of us can’t run. With my back and hip problems I could only hope that my running would cause my attacker to laugh so hard that he wouldn’t chase and catch me.

There is nothing wrong with using that tactic if you can to avoid a confrontation. I learned that when I took a jujitsu class years ago. The object is to survive an incident not be a hero.

it is also possible that you might be in an area where running away can be difficult such as a dark alley you are unfamiliar with.

If your attacker has a firearm he may shoot you dead while you are trying to run away. Not all bad guys are terrible shooters.

But with the law being discussed you are under no obligation to do so, correct? If you feel threatened you can act towards the threat. Right?

I am a Florida resident and as I understand the law in my state if you are where you can legally be and not doing anything illegal and you are attacked you can chose to stand your ground. You could also run if that was your choice.

Note: I am not an attorney And I don’t play one on TV.

Yes, so as applied to these laws, Trayvon had no reason to run and being where he was allowed to be and not doing anything illegal he would have legally been allowed to protect himself.

 

[Batcat]

Some of us can’t run. With my back and hip problems I could only hope that my running would cause my attacker to laugh so hard that he wouldn’t chase and catch me.

There is nothing wrong with using that tactic if you can to avoid a confrontation. I learned that when I took a jujitsu class years ago. The object is to survive an incident not be a hero.

it is also possible that you might be in an area where running away can be difficult such as a dark alley you are unfamiliar with.

If your attacker has a firearm he may shoot you dead while you are trying to run away. Not all bad guys are terrible shooters.

The entire concept is this is America, and you shouldn't have to run away if you don't want to or are incapable. I carry a firearm today not only because the neighborhood went to hell, but I'm 60 now, and like you, have several medical conditions that preclude me from getting into a fist fight with an attacker.

25 years ago, no problem. At 6'3", 230 lbs, in great shape, a black belt, I had no worries. Nobody used guns around here either, and I was trained in self-defense against people with other weapons. I also had no problems because most people took one look at me, and decided I wasn't somebody they wanted to get into a scrap with.

Now I have to depend on my firearm in the event of an attack. I want to be able to use it in confidence that I won't end up in prison for simply taking a stand or defending myself.

I feel the same. However if your are forced to use your weapon for self defense you may still run afoul of a rogue prosecutor looking to make a name for himself. In such a situation even if you win, the legal fees can bankrupt you. It’s best to avoid a confrontation if at all possible. In many situations simply practicing situation awareness can alert you to potential threats. Your self defense training you mentioned probably taught you that. For those not familiar with the term, situational awareness means not walking down dark streets with a cell phone glued to your ear but instead being alert to what is happening around you.

 

[Batcat]

If Zimmerman had simply called the police and went on his way we would not be discussing this today.

Probably not. But on the other hand, if Martin didn't attack Zimmerman, he'd probably be alive today too; in prison? Likely, but at least he'd be alive.

Martin felt threatened. This entire law is about people being able to protect themselves when they feel threatened.

If he felt threatened, why didn't he run back to the house he was staying at?

Why doesn't everyone that feels threatened simply run? If everyone did that, there would be no need for this law, right?

(he told his girlfriend why he felt threatened)

Some of us can’t run. With my back and hip problems I could only hope that my running would cause my attacker to laugh so hard that he wouldn’t chase and catch me.

There is nothing wrong with using that tactic if you can to avoid a confrontation. I learned that when I took a jujitsu class years ago. The object is to survive an incident not be a hero.

it is also possible that you might be in an area where running away can be difficult such as a dark alley you are unfamiliar with.

If your attacker has a firearm he may shoot you dead while you are trying to run away. Not all bad guys are terrible shooters.

But with the law being discussed you are under no obligation to do so, correct? If you feel threatened you can act towards the threat. Right?

I am a Florida resident and as I understand the law in my state if you are where you can legally be and not doing anything illegal and you are attacked you can chose to stand your ground. You could also run if that was your choice.

Note: I am not an attorney And I don’t play one on TV.

Yes, so as applied to these laws, Trayvon had no reason to run and being where he was allowed to be and not doing anything illegal he would have legally been allowed to protect himself.

So did Zimmerman attack Martin or did Martin attack Zimmerman? If Zimmerman pulled his gun on Martin before being attacked and was foolish enough to be within arm’s reach then I feel Martin had reason to fear Zimmerman might shoot him and attempt to disarm him.

 

[pknopp]

If Zimmerman had simply called the police and went on his way we would not be discussing this today.

Probably not. But on the other hand, if Martin didn't attack Zimmerman, he'd probably be alive today too; in prison? Likely, but at least he'd be alive.

Martin felt threatened. This entire law is about people being able to protect themselves when they feel threatened.

If he felt threatened, why didn't he run back to the house he was staying at?

Why doesn't everyone that feels threatened simply run? If everyone did that, there would be no need for this law, right?

(he told his girlfriend why he felt threatened)

Some of us can’t run. With my back and hip problems I could only hope that my running would cause my attacker to laugh so hard that he wouldn’t chase and catch me.

There is nothing wrong with using that tactic if you can to avoid a confrontation. I learned that when I took a jujitsu class years ago. The object is to survive an incident not be a hero.

it is also possible that you might be in an area where running away can be difficult such as a dark alley you are unfamiliar with.

If your attacker has a firearm he may shoot you dead while you are trying to run away. Not all bad guys are terrible shooters.

But with the law being discussed you are under no obligation to do so, correct? If you feel threatened you can act towards the threat. Right?

I am a Florida resident and as I understand the law in my state if you are where you can legally be and not doing anything illegal and you are attacked you can chose to stand your ground. You could also run if that was your choice.

Note: I am not an attorney And I don’t play one on TV.

Yes, so as applied to these laws, Trayvon had no reason to run and being where he was allowed to be and not doing anything illegal he would have legally been allowed to protect himself.

So did Zimmerman attack Martin or did Martin attack Zimmerman? If Zimmerman pulled his gun on Martin before being attacked and was foolish enough to be within arm’s reach then I feel Martin had reason to fear Zimmerman might shoot him and attempt to disarm him.

No. Martin was minding his own business, being where he was legally allowed to be and doing nothing wrong. Some guy comes up to him that has NO business addressing him. If he felt threatened he would legally be allowed to protect himself. That's the law.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If Zimmerman had simply called the police and went on his way we would not be discussing this today.

Probably not. But on the other hand, if Martin didn't attack Zimmerman, he'd probably be alive today too; in prison? Likely, but at least he'd be alive.

Martin felt threatened. This entire law is about people being able to protect themselves when they feel threatened.

If he felt threatened, why didn't he run back to the house he was staying at?

Why doesn't everyone that feels threatened simply run? If everyone did that, there would be no need for this law, right?

(he told his girlfriend why he felt threatened)

Some of us can’t run. With my back and hip problems I could only hope that my running would cause my attacker to laugh so hard that he wouldn’t chase and catch me.

There is nothing wrong with using that tactic if you can to avoid a confrontation. I learned that when I took a jujitsu class years ago. The object is to survive an incident not be a hero.

it is also possible that you might be in an area where running away can be difficult such as a dark alley you are unfamiliar with.

If your attacker has a firearm he may shoot you dead while you are trying to run away. Not all bad guys are terrible shooters.

But with the law being discussed you are under no obligation to do so, correct? If you feel threatened you can act towards the threat. Right?

I am a Florida resident and as I understand the law in my state if you are where you can legally be and not doing anything illegal and you are attacked you can chose to stand your ground. You could also run if that was your choice.

Note: I am not an attorney And I don’t play one on TV.

Yes, so as applied to these laws, Trayvon had no reason to run and being where he was allowed to be and not doing anything illegal he would have legally been allowed to protect himself.

So did Zimmerman attack Martin or did Martin attack Zimmerman? If Zimmerman pulled his gun on Martin before being attacked and was foolish enough to be within arm’s reach then I feel Martin had reason to fear Zimmerman might shoot him and attempt to disarm him.

No. Martin was minding his own business, being where he was legally allowed to be and doing nothing wrong. Some guy comes up to him that has NO business addressing him. If he felt threatened he would legally be allowed to protect himself. That's the law.

That's also a lie. Zimmerman never approached Martin. After Zimmerman spotted Martin, he drove to the clubhouse to call the police. Martin walked to the clubhouse and stood there while Zimmerman was talking to the dispatcher. When Martin ran, Zimmerman ran after him. He lost Martin and told that to the dispatcher. After he hung up with the police, he was walking back to his truck when he was attacked.

You can defend yourself when attacked, but nothing give you the legal right to attack somebody if you feel threatened by them, which Martin was not.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

feel the same. However if your are forced to use your weapon for self defense you may still run afoul of a rogue prosecutor looking to make a name for himself. In such a situation even if you win, the legal fees can bankrupt you. It’s best to avoid a confrontation if at all possible. In many situations simply practicing situation awareness can alert you to potential threats. Your self defense training you mentioned probably taught you that. For those not familiar with the term, situational awareness means not walking down dark streets with a cell phone glued to your ear but instead being alert to what is happening around you.

Agreed. Many a summer night I just wanted to take a walk, but around here you can't do that safely anymore. There were times when I used to walk to the bar in the evening, but I was with one or two other neighbors. Of course you can't take your gun if you're going to drink. Here you can take a gun to a bar and not drink, but not one drop while carrying.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

But with the law being discussed you are under no obligation to do so, correct? If you feel threatened you can act towards the threat. Right?

No, not at all. You just don't have to retreat from a threat.

But you wanted Trayvon to.

No, he could have stood there all night until the cops got there. As long as Zimmerman didn't present a threat, he had no reason to defend himself. He could have continued walking back to where he was staying, he could have called the cops himself. There were many other things he could have done besides attack Zimmerman.