Oh well, I suppose the U.S. will always remain to daily gun shooting

[easyt65]

Duly noted you couldn't answer the question.

Duly noted - you are stupid.

 

[2aguy]

What exactly do you mean by “these crimes”? Do you have any empirical data showing that ”these crimes” only started escalating exponentially in the last few years?

Mass shootings have been an ongoing problem that I have been discussing for years. Maybe you just recently noticed them being an actual problem but the rest of us have been saying this for a while now.

No....mass public shootings are the rarest of rare events...but you have to exploit them and lie about them because the actual gun murder is happening in democrat party controlled cities....by primarily minorities murdering minorities...so you can't focus on those........

the numbers of actual mass public shootings....

US mass shootings, 1982–2023: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

Dating back to at least 2005, the FBI and leading criminologists essentially defined a mass shooting as a single attack in a public place in which four or more victims were killed. We adopted that baseline for fatalities when we gathered data in 2012 on three decades worth of cases.
-------

• Here is a description of the criteria we use:
  
  • The perpetrator took the lives of at least four people. A 2008 FBI report identifies an individual as a mass murderer—versus a spree killer or a serial killer—if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location. (*In 2013, the US government’s fatality baseline was revised down to three; our database reflects this change beginning from Jan. 2013, as detailed above.)
  • The killings were carried out by a lone shooter. (Except in the case of the Columbine massacre and the Westside Middle School killings, which involved two shooters.)
  • The shootings occurred in a public place. (Except in the case of a party on private property in Crandon, Wisconsin, and another in Seattle, where crowds of strangers had gathered, essentially constituting a public crowd.) Crimes primarily related to gang activity or armed robbery are not included, nor are mass killings that took place in private homes (often stemming from domestic violence).
  • Perpetrators who died or were wounded during the attack are not included in the victim tallies.
  • We included a handful of cases also known as “spree killings“—cases in which the killings occurred in more than one location, but still over a short period of time, that otherwise fit the above criteria.
  ----------------------

Our research focused on indiscriminate rampages in public places resulting in four or more victims killed by the attacker. We exclude shootings stemming from more conventionally motivated crimes such as armed robbery or gang violence. (Or in which the perpetrators have not been identified.) Other news outlets and researchers have since published larger tallies that include a wide range of gun crimes in which four or more people have been either wounded or killed. While those larger datasets of multiple-victim shootings are useful for studying the broader problem of gun violence, our investigation provides an in-depth look at a distinct phenomenon—from the firearms used and mental health factors to the growing copycat problem. Tracking mass shootings is complex; we believe ours is the most useful approach for studying this specific phenomenon.



---------
The actual number of mass shootings from Mother Jones......

Here you go...the number of mass public shootings according to Mother Jones...rabid, anti gun, left wing news source.....not the NRA...

The list below comes from the old definition of 4 killed to make a shooting a mass shooting...if you now go to the link there are more than listed below...but that is because Mother Jones changed the list from the time I first posted it...and changed to obama's new standard of only 3 dead to make a mass shooting...



US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation


2022...12

2021...6

2020....2

2019....10

2018... 12

2017: 11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1


US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation


Deer kill 200 people a year.....

Lawn mowers between 90-100 people a year....

Ladders 300 people a year....

bathtubs 350 people a year...

Cars killed over 39,000 people in 2019...



Total number of people killed in mass public shootings by year...


2022....74
2021...43
2020....5
2019....73
2018.....93
2017........117
2016......71
2015......37
2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19
2010....9
2009...39
2008...18
2007...54
2006...21
2005...17
2004...5
2003...7
2002...not listed by mother jones
2001...5
2000...7
1999...42
1998...14
1997...9
1996...6
1995...6
1994....5
1993...23
1992...9
1991...35
1990...10
1989...15
1988...7
1987...6
1986...15
1985...(none listed)
1984...28
1983 (none listed)
1982...8

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Okay...how did one set of people avoid cultural influences in every other advanced nation on earth but somehow another set of people in the US didn't?

Are you kidding? Because they haven’t experienced the political, societal and cultural turbulences that we have in such a short time.

It’s not just crime that has gone up, it’s also public bad behavior like airline passengers acting up, people trashing restaurants over the cost of dipping sauce, road rage, mobs of youth attacking people, etc.. It’s all tied together.

I truly don’t understand why liberals keep avoiding the fact that these things have suddenly increased.

The reports and stats all say that crime has spiked and yet, for some unfathomable reason, the standard liberal response is: “Well, we had crime before, didn’t we?”

 

[XponentialChaos]

No....mass public shootings are the rarest of rare events...but you have to exploit them and lie about them because the actual gun murder is happening in democrat party controlled cities....by primarily minorities murdering minorities...so you can't focus on those........

the numbers of actual mass public shootings....

US mass shootings, 1982–2023: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

Dating back to at least 2005, the FBI and leading criminologists essentially defined a mass shooting as a single attack in a public place in which four or more victims were killed. We adopted that baseline for fatalities when we gathered data in 2012 on three decades worth of cases.
-------

• Here is a description of the criteria we use:
  • The perpetrator took the lives of at least four people. A 2008 FBI report identifies an individual as a mass murderer—versus a spree killer or a serial killer—if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location. (*In 2013, the US government’s fatality baseline was revised down to three; our database reflects this change beginning from Jan. 2013, as detailed above.)
  • The killings were carried out by a lone shooter. (Except in the case of the Columbine massacre and the Westside Middle School killings, which involved two shooters.)
  • The shootings occurred in a public place. (Except in the case of a party on private property in Crandon, Wisconsin, and another in Seattle, where crowds of strangers had gathered, essentially constituting a public crowd.) Crimes primarily related to gang activity or armed robbery are not included, nor are mass killings that took place in private homes (often stemming from domestic violence).
  • Perpetrators who died or were wounded during the attack are not included in the victim tallies.
  • We included a handful of cases also known as “spree killings“—cases in which the killings occurred in more than one location, but still over a short period of time, that otherwise fit the above criteria.
  ----------------------

Our research focused on indiscriminate rampages in public places resulting in four or more victims killed by the attacker. We exclude shootings stemming from more conventionally motivated crimes such as armed robbery or gang violence. (Or in which the perpetrators have not been identified.) Other news outlets and researchers have since published larger tallies that include a wide range of gun crimes in which four or more people have been either wounded or killed. While those larger datasets of multiple-victim shootings are useful for studying the broader problem of gun violence, our investigation provides an in-depth look at a distinct phenomenon—from the firearms used and mental health factors to the growing copycat problem. Tracking mass shootings is complex; we believe ours is the most useful approach for studying this specific phenomenon.



---------
The actual number of mass shootings from Mother Jones......

Here you go...the number of mass public shootings according to Mother Jones...rabid, anti gun, left wing news source.....not the NRA...

The list below comes from the old definition of 4 killed to make a shooting a mass shooting...if you now go to the link there are more than listed below...but that is because Mother Jones changed the list from the time I first posted it...and changed to obama's new standard of only 3 dead to make a mass shooting...



US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation


2022...12

2021...6

2020....2

2019....10

2018... 12

2017: 11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1


US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation


Deer kill 200 people a year.....

Lawn mowers between 90-100 people a year....

Ladders 300 people a year....

bathtubs 350 people a year...

Cars killed over 39,000 people in 2019...



Total number of people killed in mass public shootings by year...


2022....74
2021...43
2020....5
2019....73
2018.....93
2017........117
2016......71
2015......37
2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19
2010....9
2009...39
2008...18
2007...54
2006...21
2005...17
2004...5
2003...7
2002...not listed by mother jones
2001...5
2000...7
1999...42
1998...14
1997...9
1996...6
1995...6
1994....5
1993...23
1992...9
1991...35
1990...10
1989...15
1988...7
1987...6
1986...15
1985...(none listed)
1984...28
1983 (none listed)
1982...8

So we can’t blame the mass shootings on the “controversial” election, covid, or mask mandates. Like I said.

Thanks for confirming.

 

[candycorn]

The countries of Europe murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children in just 6 years........we are not talking killed as collateral damage in the war...these were innocent people, rounded up, marched into forests and camps and murdered....

In the entire 246 year history of the United States.......total gun murder number?

About 2,460,000

Those are the number that candy and the left don't want you to think about.......because the Europeans gave up their guns on the same promises candy and her leftist friends are making now.....give up your guns and you will be safe.............Europe gave up their guns and they murdered 15 million people.............in just 6 years......

Meanwhile, every year, Americans use their legal guns to save lives from rape, robbery, murder, beatings, stabbings, and even mass public shootings.......to the tune of 1.2 million times a year according to the Centers for Disease Control....

This is another fact candy and her leftist friends don't want you to know....since those 1.2 million represent lives saved from violent criminals.....

Lives saved....based on research? By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct



that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—

==============

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)


2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey

Clinton's study by the DOJ....

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Applying those restrictions leaves 19 NSPOF respondents (0.8 percent of the sample), representing 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known estimate of Kleck and Gertz, shown in the last column of exhibit 7. While the NSPOF estimate is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. Inclusion of multiple DGUs reported by half of the 19 NSPOF respondents increases the estimate to 4.7 million DGUs.



n the third column of Table 6.2, we apply the Kleck and Gertz (1995) criteria for "genuine" DGUs (type A), leaving us with just 19 respondents. They represent 1.5 million defensive users. This estimate is directly comparable to the well-known Kleck and Gertz estimate of 2.5 million, shown in the last

While ours is smaller, it is staistically plausible that the difference is due to sampling error. to the when we include the multiple DGUs victim. defensive reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 milli

While ours is smaller, it is statistically plausible that the difference petrator; in most cases (69 percent), the is due to sampling error. Note that when we include the multiple DGUs reported by half our 19 respondents, our estimate increases to 4.7 million DGUs.
----

As shown in Table 6.6, the defender fired his or her gun in 27 percent of these incidents (combined "fire warning shots" and "fire at perpetrator" percentages, though some respondents reported firing both warning shots and airning at the perpetrator). Forty percent of these were "warning shots," and about a third were aimed at the perpetrator but missed. The perpetrator was wounded by the crime victim in eight percent of all DGUs. In nine percent of DGUs the victim captured and held the perpetrator at gunpoint until the police could arrive.

Obama's study...

Defensive Use of Guns

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).
National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2013. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press. Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence |The National Academies Press.

Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence |The National Academies Press

30,000 gun deaths a year in the US...

 

[candycorn]

Are you kidding? Because they haven’t experienced the political, societal and cultural turbulences that we have in such a short time.

It’s not just crime that has gone up, it’s also public bad behavior like airline passengers acting up, people trashing restaurants over the cost of dipping sauce, road rage, mobs of youth attacking people, etc.. It’s all tied together.

I truly don’t understand why liberals keep avoiding the fact that these things have suddenly increased.

The reports and stats all say that crime has spiked and yet, for some unfathomable reason, the standard liberal response is: “Well, we had crime before, didn’t we?”

Well, we were talking about senseless gun deaths that other nations have very few of (they've solved the problem) and we have tens of thousands of (we won't solve the problem).

You guys keep blaming "the culture" in the same way you blame "the swamp", the "deep state" and whatever other nebulous unnamed cause you can dream up.

Anything to avoid the obvious reason:

We have a society where you can get as many guns as you want no questions asked and the other advanced nations do not. But keep blaming dipping sauce and road rage...I'm sure once we get rid of those stressors...everything will be great!!!!

 

[whitehall]

The latest shooting of note was some 24 y/o gun nut shooting. 6 y/o girl whose basketball rolled into his yard.

Yeah but the alleged "gun nut" fit the profile of a leftie freaking crazie who probably violated a dozen laws on the books.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

What exactly do you mean by “these crimes”?

What exactly do you mean by “What exactly do you mean by ‘these crimes’?”?

This very thread is about one of those crimes for Christ’s sake.

I know what you’re going to say; that this sort of thing has happened before. But why liberals continue to ignore the crime increase is beyond me. For fuck’s sake, the increase in mass shootings is precisely why Democrats are renewing their push for gun control and why this thread was started in the first place.

Do you have any empirical data showing that ”these crimes” only started escalating exponentially in the last few years?

The numbers are actually starting to level off or go down but I can’t imagine you are not aware that mass shootings are up.

Mass shootings have been an ongoing problem that I have been discussing for years. Maybe you just recently noticed them being an actual problem but the rest of us have been saying this for a while now.

No. Of course mass shootings have been a problem for some time but this year we hear about another one every few days. Why do you think people are screaming louder about gun control? Why do you think Washington has (or will) ban AR-15s?

 

[XponentialChaos]

What exactly do you mean by “What exactly do you mean by ‘these crimes’?”?

This very thread is about one of those crimes for Christ’s sake.

Somebody shot at someone for a stupid reason. This hasn’t happened before?

I know what you’re going to say; that this sort of thing has happened before.

Has it not?

But why liberals continue to ignore the crime increase is beyond me.

Is it increasing? I asked you for data showing that this kind of crime started increasing in the last few years, presumably due to covid or mask mandates, or whatever the hell you were trying to blame this on.

For fuck’s sake, the increase in mass shootings is precisely why Democrats are renewing their push for gun control and why this thread was started in the first place.

We have BEEN saying this for a while now, not just since 2020.

The numbers are actually starting to level off or go down but I can’t imagine you are not aware that mass shootings are up.

Please show these numbers. You claimed that they only started going up exponentially since the “controversial” election or something.

No. Of course mass shootings have been a problem for some time but this year we hear about another one every few days. Why do you think people are screaming louder about gun control? Why do you think Washington has (or will) ban AR-15s?

We’ve BEEN screaming about gun control for a while now, not just in the last few years.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Link: Little Girl, Parents Shot After Basketball Rolls Into Neighbor’s Yard: Report

How does one think that firearms can be in the hands of so many kooks?

Because they have a Right to Bear Arms, all common sense flew out the window when that stupid amendment appeared. So until Congress sorts that out, America will forever and a day shoot many innocent people on an hourly basis.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Well, we were talking about senseless gun deaths that other nations have very few of (they've solved the problem) and we have tens of thousands of (we won't solve the problem).

You guys keep blaming "the culture" in the same way you blame "the swamp", the "deep state" and whatever other nebulous unnamed cause you can dream up.

Anything to avoid the obvious reason:

We have a society where you can get as many guns as you want no questions asked and the other advanced nations do not. But keep blaming dipping sauce and road rage...I'm sure once we get rid of those stressors...everything will be great!!!!

Or, we have a society where too many don’t value life enough to rein in their worst impulses.

Have you never asked why so many in our country are capable and willing to kill in the first place? Never mind the fucking guns. Why are so many willing to so casually end a life?

 

[candycorn]

Or, we have a society where too many don’t value life enough to rein in their worst impulses.

Have you never asked why so many in our country are capable and willing to kill in the first place? Never mind the fucking guns. Why are so many willing to so casually end a life?

Can't argue with that except to say making WMDs available to anyone with enough money to buy one no questions asked is probably not a good idea when you have "so many in our country that are willing to kill in the first place".

 

[2aguy]

30,000 gun deaths a year in the US...

suicides....the main reason but you have to lie about that...

Now, explain why Japan, China and South Korea have higher suicide rates than we do as do many countries in Europe as well as Canada

 

[candycorn]

suicides....the main reason but you have to lie about that...

Now, explain why Japan, China and South Korea have higher suicide rates than we do as do many countries in Europe as well as Canada

Suicide with guns is higher in Japan, China, and S. Korea?

Doubtful. You're lying...again.

 

[2aguy]

Suicide with guns is higher in Japan, China, and S. Korea?

Doubtful. You're lying...again.

No dipshit......they have extreme gun control and higher suicide rates...as do many countries in Europe and even canada........ you know this because this isnt the first time it has been explained to you

So guns are not the issue in suicides

 

[candycorn]

No dipshit......they have extreme gun control and higher suicide rates...as do many countries in Europe and even canada........ you know this because this isnt the first time it has been explained to you

So guns are not the issue in suicides

Not over there...over here they are thanks to the 2nd Amendment.

But you don't care about that...do you boy?

 

[2aguy]

Not over there...over here they are thanks to the 2nd Amendment.

But you don't care about that...do you boy?

And you are a dim bulb.....they have extreme gun control but higher suicide rates

that means, you clod, that guns d o not matter in suicide.....

 

[candycorn]

And you are a dim bulb.....they have extreme gun control but higher suicide rates

that means, you clod, that guns d o not matter in suicide.....

Yet somehow the 10,000 suicides by gun here mean nothing to you; do they boy?

 

[Blues Man]

30,000 gun deaths a year in the US...

Suicides don't count.

Suicide is a choice it is not violence nor is it a crime.

Every single person has the absolute right to decide if they live or die.

 

[Blues Man]

Yet somehow the 10,000 suicides by gun here mean nothing to you; do they boy?

There are just as many without guns.

Suicide is a choice and people have that right