OH my Arctic glaciers are melting!!! Wait where are the glaciers going???

[flacaltenn]

Ice age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Variations in temperature, CO2, and dust from theVostok ice core over the last 400,000 years
An ice age is a period of long-term reduction in the temperature of Earth's surface and atmosphere, resulting in the presence or expansion of continental and polar ice sheets and alpine glaciers. Within a long-term ice age, individual pulses of cold climate are termed "glacial periods" (or alternatively "glacials" or "glaciations" or colloquially as "ice age"), and intermittent warm periods are called "interglacials". Glaciologically, ice age implies the presence of extensiveice sheets in the northern and southern hemispheres.[1] By this definition, we are in an interglacial period—the Holocene—of the ice age that began 2.6 million years ago at the start of thePleistocene epoch, because the Greenland, Arctic, and Antarctic ice sheets still exist.[2]


Note that the steepness of the temperature increase leading to an interglacial period is much steeper than that of the descent into an ice age.

You look at those interglacials and some of them were a heck of a lot shorter than ours. But as they say on Wall Street -- past performance is no indication of future returns..




OR IS IT????

 

[Old Rocks]

At no time in the past ice ages has there been over 400+ ppm of CO2, and 1800+ ppb of CH4 in the atmosphere at the end of the interglacial. And both number still rising.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

At no time in the past ice ages has there been over 400+ ppm of CO2, and 1800+ ppb of CH4 in the atmosphere at the end of the interglacial. And both number still rising.

So what? At no time has CO2 ever driven climate on planet Earth

 

[Old Rocks]

Without GHGs in the atmosphere, the oceans would be frozen clear down to the equator. Sounds like that is a pretty profound influence on the climate.

 

[healthmyths]

NOT one Global warming evangelista has a retort to this:

And.......While Arctic sea ice continues to decline,
Antarctic levels are confounding the world’s most trusted climate models with record highs for the third year running.

Karl Mathiesen investigates.
Antarctic ice floes extended further than ever recorded this southern winter, confounding the world’s most-trusted climate models.
“It’s not expected,” says Professor John Turner, a climate expert at the British Antarctic Survey.
“The world’s best 50 models were run and 95% of them have Antarctic sea ice decreasing over the past 30 years.”

The winter ice around the southern continent has been growing relatively constantly since records began in 1979. The US National Snow and Ice Data Centre (NSIDC), which monitors sea ice using satellite data, said this week that the year’s maximum was 1.54m sq km (595,000 sq miles) above the 1981-2010 average. The past three winters have all produced record levels of ice.
Why is Antarctic sea ice at record levels despite global warming?

Looks like that like most Northerners, fleeing South is to be expected!

 

[Derideo_Te]

but you did not take calculus in elementary school.

It isn't that difficult.

calculus in elementary school - Google Search

Calculus in 4th grade?

A while ago I discovered an interesting web site, Berkeley Science Books, that publishes a set of very comprehensive Ebooks called "Calculus Without Tears." Author Will Flannery has a pretty detailed explanation on the home page of his web-site of why he thinks Calculus can be taught in elementary school. His view is that Calculus in college is bogged down with lots of theory; if you change the focus of Calculus to application first and theory later, and if you teach the fundamentals of Calculus that don't require algebra, trigonometry, or geometry (except for the formula for the area of a rectangle) then you can teach Calculus to 4th graders. Flannery sees the motivation for all of mathematics, beyond basic arithmetic, to be physics, and the building basics - derivatives, integrals, and differential equations, which are fundamental to physics and to Calculus - can be taught to those with no mathematical sophistication.​

I was fortunate enough to be given the opportunity to learn calculus at an early age. Our regular teacher had taken ill and we were being taught by the deputy principle instead who was probably one of the best teachers I ever had.

He even combined geometry with art by teaching us how to make mosiacs and yes, he taught us calculus too.

Many years later I was talking to the son of friends of mine who said that he was struggling with high school math and he asked if I would tutor him. I asked him what he was having a problem with and he said that it was mostly algebra equations. I pointed out to him that he had been taught how to do the simple arithmetic of a+b and c/d in elementary school so he should ignore those simple parts of the equation and look at the larger problem instead.

A couple of months went by without him ever calling me for a lesson and then I bumped into him again and asked him if he still needed my help. He said no because I had taught him everything he needed to know in that one conversation. He had gone back and looked at those algebra equations in a different light and he was now acing math with straight A's.

In essence that was me passing on the lesson I learned in elementary school from the deputy principle. All math, even calculus, is made up of the same simple principles and it is only the methodology that you are using that is different. Geometry, algebra and calculus are not that difficult to understand and yes, even kids in elementary school can learn how.

I can CLAIM I taught some little dust bunny calculus by giving him some tools to calculate the volume of his juicebox.. But it ain't gonna do any good if he doesn't get another 5 or 6 years of trig and algebra and physics and science. Or doesn't actually recognize an Integral sign. Those trains and stations math word problems are actually differential equations. Could claim that 4th graders are skilled in differential calculus also..

It's great. It should be demystified. But there's too much ground to cover before you can USE any of those tools on a real problem..

I never claimed that we were using calculus to solve real problems. Only that it was, and still is, possible to teach calculus in elementary school because there really isn't any great mystery to it. Most children don't understand the connection between what they are being taught and the real world until they reach high school. I certainly didn't.

But that doesn't mean that the tools children will need to solve real world problems can't be taught earlier in life. At that age it is more like learning to solve a puzzle in order to find the right answer which makes learning fun. Kids are curious and enjoy challenges so giving them something that stimulates them at an early age means that they will do better when they need to tackle the real problems.

And I really don't care whether or not you believe me. It was probably exceptional that I was given the opportunity back when I was in elementary school but from the links I provided it seems that it now far more commonplace. What I do know for a fact is that when I was in high school and they introduced the topic of calculus many of my fellow students struggled while it was just a matter of applying what I had been taught earlier as far as I was concerned.

 

[flacaltenn]

At no time in the past ice ages has there been over 400+ ppm of CO2, and 1800+ ppb of CH4 in the atmosphere at the end of the interglacial. And both number still rising.

You don't actually KNOW that.. Not from the Vostok record anyways.. Vostok record doesn't have the time resolution to resolve the variance in either the temperature or CO2 data to less than 100s of years.

There ARE other ice records. One that I posted from greenland shows +/- swings of over 10degF that the Vostok record simply can't produce.. Because it was done over shorter time spans with greater resolution. Looking at that higher resolution record --- you get a completely different idea of how chaotic and uncertain climate can be coming in and out of a major glacial period. Makes Vostok record look like a snooze..


The graphs you're posting are like looking at the Dow with a 100 yr filter on it..

 

[flacaltenn]

but you did not take calculus in elementary school.

It isn't that difficult.

calculus in elementary school - Google Search

Calculus in 4th grade?

A while ago I discovered an interesting web site, Berkeley Science Books, that publishes a set of very comprehensive Ebooks called "Calculus Without Tears." Author Will Flannery has a pretty detailed explanation on the home page of his web-site of why he thinks Calculus can be taught in elementary school. His view is that Calculus in college is bogged down with lots of theory; if you change the focus of Calculus to application first and theory later, and if you teach the fundamentals of Calculus that don't require algebra, trigonometry, or geometry (except for the formula for the area of a rectangle) then you can teach Calculus to 4th graders. Flannery sees the motivation for all of mathematics, beyond basic arithmetic, to be physics, and the building basics - derivatives, integrals, and differential equations, which are fundamental to physics and to Calculus - can be taught to those with no mathematical sophistication.​

I was fortunate enough to be given the opportunity to learn calculus at an early age. Our regular teacher had taken ill and we were being taught by the deputy principle instead who was probably one of the best teachers I ever had.

He even combined geometry with art by teaching us how to make mosiacs and yes, he taught us calculus too.

Many years later I was talking to the son of friends of mine who said that he was struggling with high school math and he asked if I would tutor him. I asked him what he was having a problem with and he said that it was mostly algebra equations. I pointed out to him that he had been taught how to do the simple arithmetic of a+b and c/d in elementary school so he should ignore those simple parts of the equation and look at the larger problem instead.

A couple of months went by without him ever calling me for a lesson and then I bumped into him again and asked him if he still needed my help. He said no because I had taught him everything he needed to know in that one conversation. He had gone back and looked at those algebra equations in a different light and he was now acing math with straight A's.

In essence that was me passing on the lesson I learned in elementary school from the deputy principle. All math, even calculus, is made up of the same simple principles and it is only the methodology that you are using that is different. Geometry, algebra and calculus are not that difficult to understand and yes, even kids in elementary school can learn how.

I can CLAIM I taught some little dust bunny calculus by giving him some tools to calculate the volume of his juicebox.. But it ain't gonna do any good if he doesn't get another 5 or 6 years of trig and algebra and physics and science. Or doesn't actually recognize an Integral sign. Those trains and stations math word problems are actually differential equations. Could claim that 4th graders are skilled in differential calculus also..

It's great. It should be demystified. But there's too much ground to cover before you can USE any of those tools on a real problem..

I never claimed that we were using calculus to solve real problems. Only that it was, and still is, possible to teach calculus in elementary school because there really isn't any great mystery to it. Most children don't understand the connection between what they are being taught and the real world until they reach high school. I certainly didn't.

But that doesn't mean that the tools children will need to solve real world problems can't be taught earlier in life. At that age it is more like learning to solve a puzzle in order to find the right answer which makes learning fun. Kids are curious and enjoy challenges so giving them something that stimulates them at an early age means that they will do better when they need to tackle the real problems.

And I really don't care whether or not you believe me. It was probably exceptional that I was given the opportunity back when I was in elementary school but from the links I provided it seems that it now far more commonplace. What I do know for a fact is that when I was in high school and they introduced the topic of calculus many of my fellow students struggled while it was just a matter of applying what I had been taught earlier as far as I was concerned.

Math has always suffered from how we have packaged it for education. LOTS of damage done by letting the Ed folks have their way with it.. Rewriting textbooks to rename equations as "number sentences" and putting the emphasis on giving a kid 7 different ways to multiply and never telling them that there is ONE that always works and gives a precise (not an estimated) answer..

And it's same with early offerings of concepts like integrals and differentials and transforms. Just CALL them the proper names and use the LANGUAGE of math.. Makes for better outcomes than having "ed specialists" constantly renaming and trying to compromise the precision of mathematics..

By the way.. Not doubting you at all. Would never assault a teacher/mentor who KNEW what the big picture was for mathematics..

 

[Derideo_Te]

but you did not take calculus in elementary school.

It isn't that difficult.

calculus in elementary school - Google Search

Calculus in 4th grade?

A while ago I discovered an interesting web site, Berkeley Science Books, that publishes a set of very comprehensive Ebooks called "Calculus Without Tears." Author Will Flannery has a pretty detailed explanation on the home page of his web-site of why he thinks Calculus can be taught in elementary school. His view is that Calculus in college is bogged down with lots of theory; if you change the focus of Calculus to application first and theory later, and if you teach the fundamentals of Calculus that don't require algebra, trigonometry, or geometry (except for the formula for the area of a rectangle) then you can teach Calculus to 4th graders. Flannery sees the motivation for all of mathematics, beyond basic arithmetic, to be physics, and the building basics - derivatives, integrals, and differential equations, which are fundamental to physics and to Calculus - can be taught to those with no mathematical sophistication.​

I was fortunate enough to be given the opportunity to learn calculus at an early age. Our regular teacher had taken ill and we were being taught by the deputy principle instead who was probably one of the best teachers I ever had.

He even combined geometry with art by teaching us how to make mosiacs and yes, he taught us calculus too.

Many years later I was talking to the son of friends of mine who said that he was struggling with high school math and he asked if I would tutor him. I asked him what he was having a problem with and he said that it was mostly algebra equations. I pointed out to him that he had been taught how to do the simple arithmetic of a+b and c/d in elementary school so he should ignore those simple parts of the equation and look at the larger problem instead.

A couple of months went by without him ever calling me for a lesson and then I bumped into him again and asked him if he still needed my help. He said no because I had taught him everything he needed to know in that one conversation. He had gone back and looked at those algebra equations in a different light and he was now acing math with straight A's.

In essence that was me passing on the lesson I learned in elementary school from the deputy principle. All math, even calculus, is made up of the same simple principles and it is only the methodology that you are using that is different. Geometry, algebra and calculus are not that difficult to understand and yes, even kids in elementary school can learn how.

I can CLAIM I taught some little dust bunny calculus by giving him some tools to calculate the volume of his juicebox.. But it ain't gonna do any good if he doesn't get another 5 or 6 years of trig and algebra and physics and science. Or doesn't actually recognize an Integral sign. Those trains and stations math word problems are actually differential equations. Could claim that 4th graders are skilled in differential calculus also..

It's great. It should be demystified. But there's too much ground to cover before you can USE any of those tools on a real problem..

I never claimed that we were using calculus to solve real problems. Only that it was, and still is, possible to teach calculus in elementary school because there really isn't any great mystery to it. Most children don't understand the connection between what they are being taught and the real world until they reach high school. I certainly didn't.

But that doesn't mean that the tools children will need to solve real world problems can't be taught earlier in life. At that age it is more like learning to solve a puzzle in order to find the right answer which makes learning fun. Kids are curious and enjoy challenges so giving them something that stimulates them at an early age means that they will do better when they need to tackle the real problems.

And I really don't care whether or not you believe me. It was probably exceptional that I was given the opportunity back when I was in elementary school but from the links I provided it seems that it now far more commonplace. What I do know for a fact is that when I was in high school and they introduced the topic of calculus many of my fellow students struggled while it was just a matter of applying what I had been taught earlier as far as I was concerned.

Math has always suffered from how we have packaged it for education. LOTS of damage done by letting the Ed folks have their way with it.. Rewriting textbooks to rename equations as "number sentences" and putting the emphasis on giving a kid 7 different ways to multiply and never telling them that there is ONE that always works and gives a precise (not an estimated) answer..

And it's same with early offerings of concepts like integrals and differentials and transforms. Just CALL them the proper names and use the LANGUAGE of math.. Makes for better outcomes than having "ed specialists" constantly renaming and trying to compromise the precision of mathematics..

Agreed! I suspect that was what confused my daughter.

Math is the language of the universe and learning math should not be difficult. The basis is logic and order and how to arrange it in different ways that explain what we observe. (Or should that be the other way around? )

 

[flacaltenn]

D-T.. Read the last line I added above.. Don't want any misunderstandings..

 

[Derideo_Te]

D-T.. Read the last line I added above.. Don't want any misunderstandings..

Understood!

I know who you are referring to because I encountered some of them during my daughter's schooling. She struggled with the way they were teaching math until I took her back to the fundamentals. She was top of her form in math in her junior year once I got her straightened out.