Official USMB Shutdown Showdown Thread --- Jan 10th, 2019

[bripat9643]

...Yep! That is almost exactly word for word as to how the Soviets defended the Berlin wall...

Yep. But in their case, it was bull$hit; in our case, it would be much closer to the truth... keeping people out, rather than in.

The only way your variant of the analogy works is if we lay-down minefields and machine-gun towers and kill people trying to leave.

I do not remember vast numbers of East Berliners demanding that the Soviets and their East German puppets erect their wall.

... But, let's go past that. Closing the borders would lock out our 4th largest trading partner, Mexico...

Yep. It would hurt folks on both sides of the border, but it would hurt them far worse than it hurts us.

...And, like Trump, you think this is a GOOD thing!...

The economic damage would not be a good thing, but the regaining of border integrity and economic equity might prove worth the cost.

...Neither of you, apparently, passed Econon. 101. Christ on a bicycle, Galt, go back to school...

Or, alternatively, they understand the basics, but think that such economic sparring would hurt, short-term, but help, longer-term.

They may be wrong... or they may be right... but I suspect they're committed to putting it to the test.

So, you would destroy 25% of the American economy that deals in exports, and allow the federal government to lock us inside the US.

Thank god you will never be president.

How would building the wall destroy 25% of the economy?

 

[jc456]

In case anyone forgot.

but Trump didn't shut the government down. Chuckie boy did. I tell you what, you show me the bill Trump vetoed. I'm waiting.

 

[bripat9643]

Both sides stupid and divisive things.

But the right seems to be better at going mean.

Fox host on federal employees missing paychecks: "At least some people get to go to the beach"

DAGEN MCDOWELL (GUEST HOST): Don't you think that the Democrats are sitting back, waiting for this moment when the furloughed workers don't get their first paycheck, that the first paycheck is missed, because they want that as kind of a tent pole in their, like, media circus?

MICHAEL BLOCK (MARKET STRATEGIST): The problem is, both parties are culpable here.

...

MCDOWELL: 420,000 of them are on the job and not getting paid, so at least some people get to go to the beach, if you will.

Michael Block is right, we need more transparency to see EXACTLY who is offering what...

Public sector is hiring only non essential jobs are impacted.

Public sector is hiring only non essential jobs are impacted.

Good morning, Azog. I consider airline inspections and food inspection as essential.

I don't.

 

[bripat9643]

I spent 33 years as a Federal Employee and went through several shutdowns

It is not like a vacation. You don’t know when your next paycheck is coming. You don’t go out to dinner, you put purchases on hold, you hold off on your bills and pay those that are most urgent

That explains everything that you are a federal employee. Now I understand why you are such a tool.

Thank you

I am very proud of my years of service

What are you proud of, producing red tape and harming private businesses?

 

[rightwinger]

I spent 33 years as a Federal Employee and went through several shutdowns

It is not like a vacation. You don’t know when your next paycheck is coming. You don’t go out to dinner, you put purchases on hold, you hold off on your bills and pay those that are most urgent

That explains everything that you are a federal employee. Now I understand why you are such a tool.

Thank you

I am very proud of my years of service

What are you proud of, producing red tape and harming private businesses?

I had a great career Fingerboy
Testing military equipment
Systems I worked on saved thousands of lives

 

[Andylusion]

Build the wall, and the problem goes away.

 

[jc456]

It looks like the rats are bailing on the Piglosi/Schumer sinking ship:

Matthew Boyle, Author at Breitbart​

Congressional Democrats are ditching House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer’s ardent opposition to any barrier or wall along the U.S. border with Mexico, as the partial government shutdown continues and President Donald Trump takes his case directly to the border itself.

““If we have a partial wall, if we have fencing, if we have technology used to keep our border safe, all of that is fine,” Rep. Cheri Bustos (D-IL), the chairwoman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC), said on CNN.

Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-OR) also backed a barrier along the U.S. border with Mexico.

“Some fencing is useful, some barriers are useful,” Merkley said. “There’s a lot of surveillance technology. I’ve been to some cities on the border that have triple fencing and have more personnel and have the technology to see the people moving in the middle of the night.”

These very prominent congressional Democrats’ message on the effectiveness of a wall or barrier or fence is very different from the coordinated message from Schumer and Pelosi just two nights ago when the two Democrat leaders in Congress said in their response to President Trump’s Oval Office address that the wall would be “ineffective.”

Pelosi called the wall “expensive and ineffective,” something that was an “obsession” of Trump’s–while Schumer bashed Trump’s “ineffective, unnecessary border wall” and said that America does not need a barrier on the border for security. “We can secure our border without an expensive, ineffective wall,” Schumer said in his response to Trump.

It remains to be seen where this fight goes from here, but the fact that many Democrats are messaging in a very different way from Pelosi and Schumer is particularly interesting as the next stages of this battle​

They are realizing that the gruesome twosome are backing a losing cause. And being politicians they want on the winning side which ain't the gruesome twosomes.

Trumps speech hit on every point I hoped he would make. Illegal that cost the tax payers billions each year and the drugs that come across the border.

The rebuttal was lame and you can bet the voters picked up on that big time.

We will have that wall.

This is what you’ll have for $6 billion...

Nope. We save billions that illegals cost us every year.

LOLOL

Dumbfuck, that picture is what trump’s wall looks like now. It took no time for someone to cut through it was an ordinary saw.

It’s not gonna save us a dime and Mexico isn’t gonna pay for it; we are.

Wrong. The article says the wall samples were "vulnerable to breaching." It doesn't say how it was done.

Bri, We have laws that say murder is a crime. WE still have murders, so do we tell all cops to go home?

 

[80zephyr]

It means that those that bitch about it are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Zeph, do a test...so long as the shutdown lasts, do not cash your paycheck. Get by with what you have on hand, pay any benefits deducted by your employer such as healthcare and/or alimony together with the bills you usually pay. If you continue to work without pay, there will be commuter expenses, lunches etc. When they return to work, then cash in. You can then pay off any borrowed money, and tell us from experience how easy it is.

No one said it was easy. But in comparison to the real world, its a walk in the park. The senate just voted to give them all 100% back pay. You ever work at a job like that?

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

Pathetic.Cry some more tears. You have no idea what being cutoff from a paycheck is like.

Contrast Federal shutdowns with layoffs? A Federal shutdown .... Fed employee is guaranteed to be made whole.You ever been rounded up like herd only to be told that the company is shutting down at the conclusion of the meeting.... you don’t know when your next paycheck is coming, you put purchases on hold, who hold off on your bills and pay those that are most urgent, EXCEPT..... there is no glimmer or shot of you being made whole UNLESS you get another job.

Oh, maybe you can take solace in that the $100M speaker of the house blinking into the screen that “unemployment checks are good for the economy”

You experienced temporary pain with the confidence you would be made whole again. Maybe you would feel better like the manufacturing workers being told by a President that the jobs just aren’t coming back.

I’d rather be a furloughed Fed than a laid off manufacturing worker any mother fucking day of the week.

Again it is not a lay-off.
It has nothing to do with how you have been doing your job, how well your company is doing or the state of the economy

It is entirely because politicians have egos too big to reach a compromise and you are left to pay the price

You are playing semantics while you got exposed trying to cry the same pain as those of us who experienced it permanently. Quit while you are not that far behind.

Read my post

I said I was able to get by

Of course. Further, you were MORE than able to get by. Your temporary Federal unemployment was secured in the guarantee that not only you would get your job back, you would get back pay. Feds right now with no paycheck at least have that peace-of-mind.

Again, please stop. Any pain, discomfort, fear that you felt during your multiple Federal furloughs is nothing compared to private sector employees when they are furloughed or especially, laid off. Comparatively, the pain, discomfort, fear and insecurity are felt a lot more.

While we were out, we were never guaranteed back pay.

I never compared a furlough to getting laid off. I said it was something you had to compensate for and was not like a vacation

But you were furloughed for economic reasons not because of political temper tantrums

The Ted Cruz furlough cost the taxpayer $26 billion. Much, much more than the stupid wall would cost

No one cares why you were laid off. No one. In comparison to us, you have it made.

Mark

 

[william the wie]

She is presiding over a revolt by the left wing of her party.

The shutdown is partially destroying the deep state and possibly the D donor base.

The impeachment is unstoppable and based on perjury. That runs the risk of bench warrants by the chief justice when this turkey gets to the senate.

But Nancy has become the speaker again.

 

[bendog]

Isn't it bit early?

 

[BlackFlag]

She is presiding over a revolt by the left wing of her party.

The shutdown is partially destroying the deep state and possibly the D donor base.

The impeachment is unstoppable and based on perjury. That runs the risk of bench warrants by the chief justice when this turkey gets to the senate.

But Nancy has become the speaker again.

Lolol what in the world...?

 

[basquebromance]

my friends, Democrats are focused on pocketbook kitchen table issues like health care and improving infrastructure, hopefully they can end this shutdown, let Mueller be Mueller, and it'll all work out.

they ought not pay a 5 billion dollar ransom note to Trump, who is trying to fool the american people on destroying the constitution in order to fulfill a campaign promise that the great dealmaker failed to get mexico to pay for it

 

[McRocket]

Air traffic controllers union sues Trump administration over frozen pay during shutdown

• The union representing air traffic controllers sues President Trump over shutdown.
• Air traffic controllers have been deemed essential government workers and are showing up without pay.
• The government shutdown started Dec. 22 and is one of the longest in history.

The union representing the United States’ air traffic controllers is suing the Trump administration over pay that’s frozen as part of the partial government shutdown.

The Federal Aviation Administration’s air traffic controllers are among the 420,000 federal employees who have been deemed essential and have been ordered to work without pay during the shutdown, which began on Dec. 22 due to an impasse over funding for a wall along the U.S. southern border.

Air traffic controllers union sues Trump administration over frozen pay during shutdown

 

[Dragonlady]

She is presiding over a revolt by the left wing of her party.

The shutdown is partially destroying the deep state and possibly the D donor base.

The impeachment is unstoppable and based on perjury. That runs the risk of bench warrants by the chief justice when this turkey gets to the senate.

But Nancy has become the speaker again.

What revolt? Where? Not one Democrat in the House or Senate has spoken out against her, unlike the Republican Party, which is openly critical of the President and his actions, and rightfully so.

There is no "Deep State". Never was. It's something Putin made up to explain why the Trump Administration can't get anything done. No, we're not incompetent and in chaos, it's the Deep State thwarting our agenda, undermining us at every turn. Yeah right. The moment fools like you start muttering "Deep State", the rest of the world knows you're an imbecile who will believe anything Trump says.

If the impeachment is "based on perjury" how can it be "unstoppable". The impeachment, if it happens, is based on criminal acts by the President, and members of his campaign team and his family committed at his direction and behest, and the open campaign to intimidate witnesses and end the Russia Investigation, the firings in the FBI and Justice, the dangling of pardons, and the ever changing stories.

Democrats could just drive Trump mad with investigations. It's a real short trip at this point, and there are already 17 investigations between Mueller, the people suing for emoluments, the Southern District of New York investigations into Campaign Finance violations by Trump, Cohen and the National Enquirer, the AG of New York investigating the Trump Corporation and the Trump Foundation, any number of which could see the President indicted the moment he leaves office.

Democrats could just investigate Trump to death, the way Republicans did with Hillary. Every day a steady parade of witnesses, most already in jail for Trump related crimes, testifying before Congress as to the illegal acts the President committed. His undermining of the rule of law, his money laundering, fraud and other get rich quick schemes, for the next two years. Even Ivanka would refuse to vote for him, that is if she hasn't lost her vote by being a convicted felon by 2020.

 

[DJT for Life]

my friends, Democrats are focused on pocketbook kitchen table issues like health care and improving infrastructure, hopefully they can end this shutdown, let Mueller be Mueller, and it'll all work out.

they ought not pay a 5 billion dollar ransom note to Trump, who is trying to fool the american people on destroying the constitution in order to fulfill a campaign promise that the great dealmaker failed to get mexico to pay for it

Pelosi already fucked that up.

She took away a main dem talking point at the last meeting.

When Trump asked her, if he opened the Government back-up with
the piece meal CR's. Would he get the money for the wall in February.

The Stupid Bitch said "No!"

That destroyed their talking point of reopening the other Govt agencies
and continuing with discussions on Homeland Security.

They said the other agencies were not involved. Well, her "No" took
future Homeland Security negotiations off the table. There isn't going
to be any wall. The Government will stay shut.

Now the dems are going to have to figure out how to save face before
they have to fund the wall.

Everyday that the shutdown continues the blame spreads out to include the
Dems. Per the norm the Dems have overplayed their hand.

 

[Norman]

This must be the first time in history that dems can't open the government because of 0.000% valued budget item. During Obama's time 800 billion was nothing, now 5 billion is just too much spending.

 

[Dragonlady]

my friends, Democrats are focused on pocketbook kitchen table issues like health care and improving infrastructure, hopefully they can end this shutdown, let Mueller be Mueller, and it'll all work out.

they ought not pay a 5 billion dollar ransom note to Trump, who is trying to fool the american people on destroying the constitution in order to fulfill a campaign promise that the great dealmaker failed to get mexico to pay for it

Pelosi already fucked that up.

She took away a main dem talking point at the last meeting.

When Trump asked her, if he opened the Government back-up with
the piece meal CR's. Would he get the money for the wall in February.

The Stupid Bitch said "No!"

That destroyed their talking point of reopening the other Govt agencies
and continuing with discussions on Homeland Security.

They said the other agencies were not involved. Well, her "No" took
future Homeland Security negotiations off the table. There isn't going
to be any wall. The Government will stay shut.

Now the dems are going to have to figure out how to save face before
they have to fund the wall.

Everyday that the shutdown continues the blame spreads out to include the
Dems. Per the norm the Dems have overplayed their hand.

Pelosi isn't the one who walked out of the negotiations. Trump could have asked what she would be prepared to offer but he didn't.

Trump is not getting a wall unless and until he provides a case to the American people justifying the expense, like every other President does. Unless and until the President studies other options and proves why his wall will be worth the expense.

Thirdly, Trump just lost the House, and he lost it as a referendum on his policies. The American voter resoundly rejected both the Trump Presidency and the Republican Party's support of it, and they did so at the ballot box. Nancy Pelosi is the embodiment of the Americans voters' wishes and intentions.

Every day the shutdown continues, the American public is blaming the guy who walked out of the negotiations. The guy who has twice agreed to funding for his wall and then cancelled the deal, and who is now, single handedly refusing to sign the bills on his desk to re-open the government. Donald J. Trump.

 

[ABikerSailor]

It looks like the rats are bailing on the Piglosi/Schumer sinking ship:

Matthew Boyle, Author at Breitbart​

Congressional Democrats are ditching House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer’s ardent opposition to any barrier or wall along the U.S. border with Mexico, as the partial government shutdown continues and President Donald Trump takes his case directly to the border itself.

““If we have a partial wall, if we have fencing, if we have technology used to keep our border safe, all of that is fine,” Rep. Cheri Bustos (D-IL), the chairwoman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC), said on CNN.

Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-OR) also backed a barrier along the U.S. border with Mexico.

“Some fencing is useful, some barriers are useful,” Merkley said. “There’s a lot of surveillance technology. I’ve been to some cities on the border that have triple fencing and have more personnel and have the technology to see the people moving in the middle of the night.”

These very prominent congressional Democrats’ message on the effectiveness of a wall or barrier or fence is very different from the coordinated message from Schumer and Pelosi just two nights ago when the two Democrat leaders in Congress said in their response to President Trump’s Oval Office address that the wall would be “ineffective.”

Pelosi called the wall “expensive and ineffective,” something that was an “obsession” of Trump’s–while Schumer bashed Trump’s “ineffective, unnecessary border wall” and said that America does not need a barrier on the border for security. “We can secure our border without an expensive, ineffective wall,” Schumer said in his response to Trump.

It remains to be seen where this fight goes from here, but the fact that many Democrats are messaging in a very different way from Pelosi and Schumer is particularly interesting as the next stages of this battle​

They are realizing that the gruesome twosome are backing a losing cause. And being politicians they want on the winning side which ain't the gruesome twosomes.

Trumps speech hit on every point I hoped he would make. Illegal that cost the tax payers billions each year and the drugs that come across the border.

The rebuttal was lame and you can bet the voters picked up on that big time.

We will have that wall.

This is what you’ll have for $6 billion...

Nope. We save billions that illegals cost us every year.

LOLOL

Dumbfuck, that picture is what trump’s wall looks like now. It took no time for someone to cut through it was an ordinary saw.

It’s not gonna save us a dime and Mexico isn’t gonna pay for it; we are.

Wrong. The article says the wall samples were "vulnerable to breaching." It doesn't say how it was done.

In the linked article, they say that the wall was breached with an electric saw, readily available at any hardware store.

Definitive proof that Trump’s steel wall doesn’t work

In 2017, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) tested eight wall prototypes that Trump and his cronies are considering for the Mexico border. The test was simple: DHS asked the military to try to breach the wall using ordinary tools available at any hardware store.


Dept. of Homeland Security testing of a steel slat prototype for border wall proved it could be cut through with a saw, according to a report by DHS.


A photo obtained by @NBCNews shows the results of the test. Steel prototype for border wall cut through with saw, photo shows pic.twitter.com/UP9EgHGxDx


— NBC News (@NBCNews) January 10, 2019

All the walls failed. Concrete, steel, steel and concrete–nothing held up. All these inexpensive materials can be breached as long as you have a cheap, commercially available electric saw. (And the prohibitively expensive alloys that can resist hardware tools can be jumped over anyway.)

The photo leaked to NBC is one of many that were redacted from a U.S. Customs and Border Protection report first obtained by San Diego public radio KPBS following a Freedom of Information Act request. “The heavily redacted government documents reveal every mock-up was deemed vulnerable to at least one breaching technique,” the radio station story says. According to the report, the DHS even had to stop one of the breach tests because the entire wall was going to collapse. The report also showed that the government agency didn’t test for tunnels under the wall, which seems like a significant oversight, given that tunnels have been dug to smuggle in drugs and people in the past.

Obviously, the Trump administration doesn’t want you to see these images. What is clear now is that the wall is a failure in any of its designs or materials–a joke with a multibillion-dollar price tag that hopefully will never get made.

 

[BluesLegend]

Trump is not getting a wall unless and until he provides a case to the American people justifying the expense

Thousands of DEAD Americans justify the expense.