How is it that someone as seemingly interested in financial restraint doesn't see the value in an energy source with zero fuel costs?
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Official Thread for Denial of GreenHouse Effect and Radiative Physics.
- Thread starter flacaltenn
- Start date
- Dec 18, 2013
- 136,286
- 27,871
- 2,180
so these products just exist by a snap of a finger?How is it that someone as seemingly interested in financial restraint doesn't see the value in an energy source with zero fuel costs?
How is it that someone as seemingly interested in financial restraint doesn't see the value in an energy source with zero fuel costs?
How can someone who "knows" so much about science be so damn clueless when it comes to economics?
What clue have I missed Todd?
Economically, I'd say all of them.
The cost of the fuel used by a fossil-fueled powerplant during the course of its lifetime dwarfs all other capital expenditures the facility requires. It is idiocy to claim that an oil or gas powered plant is economically more efficient than solar or wind or any other renewable technology.
www.irena.org
www.irena.org
www.forbes.com
Majority of New Renewables Undercut Cheapest Fossil Fuel on Cost
Countries urged to power past coal as new report confirms renewables would bring cost savings of USD 156 billion to emerging economies.
www.irena.org
Renewable Power Remains Cost-Competitive amid Fossil Fuel Crisis
New IRENA report shows almost two-thirds of renewable power added in 2021 had lower costs than the cheapest coal-fired options in G20 countries.
www.irena.org
Renewable Energy Prices Hit Record Lows: How Can Utilities Benefit From Unstoppable Solar And Wind?
If falling prices have made renewable energy unstoppable in the U.S., what does that mean for utilities? If the question is determined by smart policy, the answer may be financial opportunity.
www.forbes.com
The cost of the fuel used by a fossil-fueled powerplant during the course of its lifetime dwarfs all other capital expenditures the facility requires. It is idiocy to claim that an oil or gas powered plant is economically more efficient than solar or wind or any other renewable technology.
Majority of New Renewables Undercut Cheapest Fossil Fuel on Cost
Countries urged to power past coal as new report confirms renewables would bring cost savings of USD 156 billion to emerging economies.Renewable Power Remains Cost-Competitive amid Fossil Fuel Crisis
New IRENA report shows almost two-thirds of renewable power added in 2021 had lower costs than the cheapest coal-fired options in G20 countries.Renewable Energy Prices Hit Record Lows: How Can Utilities Benefit From Unstoppable Solar And Wind?
If falling prices have made renewable energy unstoppable in the U.S., what does that mean for utilities? If the question is determined by smart policy, the answer may be financial opportunity.
Before we talk about "free fuel", let's take a look at a more simplistic idea
from one of my favorite simplistic Dims...err...Dems.
AOC wanted to retrofit every building and home in the U.S. so they can be “energy-efficient.”
Is that a good idea?
If you spent $500 to better insulate your house to save $500 a year in fuel, that would be a no-brainer, like AOC.
After 1 year, you'll have replenished that $500 in your bank account and every year after that
you get $500 of "free money" from the savings. That'd be a great idea. Right?
Now, what if the cost was $30,000. Is that still a good idea?
ReinyDays
Gold Member
How is it that someone as seemingly interested in financial restraint doesn't see the value in an energy source with zero fuel costs?
That's only true for wind mills wholly subsidized by government tax dollars ... especially property tax forgiveness ... on the Oregon side, the Columbia Gorge Wind Farm is paying full taxes on their appraised value, which is based on gross revenue ... add maintenance and margins and wind power isn't free ... it competitive where the wind blows, but not free ...
- Dec 18, 2013
- 136,286
- 27,871
- 2,180
how are they made? again, you think you snap and there it is like I dream of Jeannie?How is it that someone as seemingly interested in financial restraint doesn't see the value in an energy source with zero fuel costs?
how are they made? again, you think you snap and there it is like I dream of Jeannie?
Jeannie caused all sorts of global warming!
In my personal experience the warming was quite localized, though intense.
I didn't say the energy was free, but the fuel is and being so is of enormous value. Besides wind turbines, fuel is free for solar, tidal, wave-powered, hydroelectric and geothermal technologies.That's only true for wind mills wholly subsidized by government tax dollars ... especially property tax forgiveness ... on the Oregon side, the Columbia Gorge Wind Farm is paying full taxes on their appraised value, which is based on gross revenue ... add maintenance and margins and wind power isn't free ... it competitive where the wind blows, but not free ...
- Dec 18, 2013
- 136,286
- 27,871
- 2,180
did you thank Jeannie?In my personal experience the warming was quite localized, though intense.
- Dec 18, 2013
- 136,286
- 27,871
- 2,180
you said it was cheap and then ran away from defining what you meant by cheap.I didn't say the energy was free, but the fuel is and being so is of enormous value. Besides wind turbines, fuel is free for solar, tidal, wave-powered, hydroelectric and geothermal technologies.
I didn't say the energy was free, but the fuel is and being so is of enormous value. Besides wind turbines, fuel is free for solar, tidal, wave-powered, hydroelectric and geothermal technologies.
Solar is free, relatively diffuse and kind of inconsistent.
Would you like to compare the fuel cost for a 100 MW solar farm to the fuel cost for a 100 MW natural gas power plant over a 20 year lifetime?
According to Gas Consumption per 1 MW - BBN World the gas to produce 1 MWHr would cost $49. So, our plant would cost $4,900/hour. There are 8,760 hours in a year, so that's $429,240/year. Over 20 years that would be $8,584,800. Fuel costs for the solar farm would be zero. How's that look to you? Does it look like something you could ignore because it seems to irk you that we should use anything other than petroleum?
According to Gas Consumption per 1 MW - BBN World the gas to produce 1 MWHr would cost $49. So, our plant would cost $4,900/hour. There are 8,760 hours in a year, so that's $429,240/year. Over 20 years that would be $8,584,800. Fuel costs for the solar farm would be zero. How's that look to you? Does it look like something you could ignore because it seems to irk you that we should use anything other than petroleum?
Would you like to compare the fuel cost for a 100 MW solar farm to the fuel cost for a 100 MW natural gas power plant over a 20 year lifetime?
According to Gas Consumption per 1 MW - BBN World the gas to produce 1 MWHr would cost $49. So, our plant would cost $4,900/hour. There are 8,760 hours in a year, so that's $429,240/year. Over 20 years that would be $8,584,800. Fuel costs for the solar farm would be zero. How's that look to you? Does it look like something you could ignore because it seems to irk you that we should use anything other than petroleum?
So when the natural gas plant is producing power at midnight, how is the solar farm producing power? Or do we shut everything down when the sun sets?
Arguing against climate change is like saying gravity plays no role in plane crashes. It is that stupid!Too many threads are ending up with the same 20 page discussion between a small fraction of the members that read Enviro topics.. Every rule and design of USMB moderation is there to get UNIQUE TOPICAL discussion of specific events and topics as laid out in the Opening Posts. No one wants to wade thru the same fillibustering arguments that atmospheric physics and the GHouse effect is all wrong.. And they violate the "on-topic" rules at USMB..
That's what this thread is for.. CONTAIN those rodeos in THIS thread or start your own threads on whatever you deny.... DON'T hijack other specific topics.. Members and visitors will appreciate your cooperation...
Go have your sideline debates about this topic HERE.. The topic is clearly spelled out in the title of this thread...
- Thread starter
- #2,039
Arguing against climate change is like saying gravity plays no role in plane crashes. It is that stupid!
The purpose of this thread was to call-out folks who were clinging to UNscientific and screwy arguments that violate basic physics and thermodynamics.
But there CERTAINLY IS a very good scientific case for claiming the current and future effects of the OBSERVED and recorded Global Warming are GROSSLY exaggerated by the media, politicians and certain "activists in labcoats" in the scientific community.
How much has the Earth warmed in your lifetime? Probably a little over 0.6DegC. Has the RATE of warming drastically increased as predicted 35 years ago? No. Will the temperature anomaly in 2100 be the 6 to 10DegC that was INITIALLY claimed? Not likely at all.
There IS a warming trend. Man plays role in that. But after 35 years of this circus -- the pants peeing predictions have ALL been refined downwards over the years.
This is WHY CC or GW gets little traction in public polls anymore and why you NO LONGER see DAILY or MONTHLY news articles on how we're all gonna die. THOSE were here DAILY on USMB in this forum up to about 2010. The Earth is not cooling, but the SCIENCE and heat of the arguments have been cooling for about 10 years now.
ReinyDays
Gold Member
[sigh] ... I had such a witty and clever remark ... but Papa Flacaltenn is right ... this thread is for greenhouse denialism ...
Gravity is always there pulling the airplane down ... it's the lack of lift that causes them to crash ...
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