Official Impeachment Day Thread

[jc456]

THERE THEY GO AGAIN: Democrats preparing to undermine Trump victory in 2020.

To put a finer point on it, they’re preparing to thwart the will of American voters. Again.

well that should scare some voters on the right to vote, huh? too fking funny, they are as unamerican as it gets.

 

[colfax_m]

They didn’t plot against him. Trump rambling about some false allegations that corrupt Ukrainians told him about Crowdstrike is not a plot.

but it is a fact. And it's most likely true, but we won't know until it's investigated. why don't you want to know if they did interfere with the 2016 elections? I thought that was the entire point of Mueller. Are you saying that wasn't the point?

Facts? Crowdstrike is not owned by a Ukrainian oligarch. The DNC was hacked by Russia. These are facts, which was the point of the Mueller report.

Who said they did? Trump asked for the PM to look into them. Why are you against that? again, you avoided my question. Didn't the crowdstrike folks say it was a ukrainian worm?

No, it was not a Ukrainian worm.

well why didn't you quote what they said then? I mean you're telling me I'm in error. well prove it.

Why should I prove what you’re trying to claim?

Bears in the Midst: Intrusion into the Democratic National Committee »

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

They are addicted to the USD. Don't let them fool you. They are addicted to our military aid, our innovation and our entertainment/culture.

Good thing we have a president who is so consistent about providing military aid and not withholding it for bullshit reasons.

I do not believe it was bullshit reasons. Obama never armed the Ukrainians, Trump did. Then he finds out that they plotted against him in 2016 and overtly so. He wanted to make sure the new regime was not as corrupt given what happened with Biden and his son. It was probably not the best way to go about it but it is not an impeachable offense per Alan Dershowitz. I agree with him.

They didn’t plot against him. Trump rambling about some false allegations that corrupt Ukrainians told him about Crowdstrike is not a plot.

Not so:

I can’t watch YouTube videos right now. Can you provide me a brief synopsis?

This isn’t about Ukrainian politicians saying mean things about Trump, is it?

It is about Ukrainian politicians overtly pushing Clinton over Trump. Not mean things. You should watch it.

Specifically:

The Ukrainian ambassador here in the United States, Ambassador Chaly, wrote an op-ed in The Hill, said this. "Trump's Comments Send Wrong Message."

We have former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yatsenyuk who criticized Candidate Trump. We had Mr. Avakov.

I believe earlier you said, Ambassador, that Mr. Avakov was the individual who first alerted you to the efforts of Mr. Giuliani. Mr. Avakov, back during this same time period in the months just prior to the 2016 election, called Mr. -- or -- excuse, me, called then-Candidate Trump all kinds of names, called him a terrorist.

Mr. Lutsenko, a member of parliament who was a source for Fusion GPS and the now-somewhat famous dossier that flowed from Fusion's work. He said this in The Financial Times, again, in August of 2016 when you first arrived in -- in Ukraine. He said this, "The majority of Ukrainians -- the majority of Ukrainian politicians are on Hillary Clinton's side."


JORDAN: He said this in his testimony on Wednesday. "On September 11th, I learned that the hold had been lifted the next day." Ambassador Taylor said, "I conveyed this news to President Zelensky and the Ukrainian foreign minister, and I reminded Mr. Yermak of the high strategic value of bipartisan support for Ukraine and the importance of not getting involved in other countries' elections.

So what I'm wondering is, this is the day after the aid's been lifted, Ambassador Taylor made this statement to the Ukrainian government. And he makes this after there is nothing been done by Ukraine to influence our election. Because President Zelensky didn't announce he was doing an investigation, and the aid was lifted. But he felt he needed to say that.

But in 2016, when we know that the majority of Ukrainian politicians want Clinton to win because it was said by a member of parliament when the ambassador to the United States from Ukraine writes an op-ed criticizing then-Candidate Trump, when Mr. Avakov calls Candidate Trump all kinds of names, nobody goes and talks to them and tells them to knock it off?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

So as you rely on Pats fans, I rely on people who actually live there and talk to numerous other people. The media here is retarded. The fans have not lost any faith in TB12 and we want him back. People in Israel, Russia and the UK like Trump and his policies. They like his persona too. Not all. But many. They disliked BHO and Bush.

People live in bubbles. Relying a small socially connected group will introduce bias.

Perhaps but we live in a world full of bias. Today is case in point. BHO was a players coach and other countries loved him and walked all over us. Not the case with Trump. Like I said, I like his policies and I like that he is holding other countries accountable. We are not the world's piggy bank.

We should try to reduce bias, not embrace it.

Money is power. The less involved we are, the less power we have.

Impossible to eliminate bias, maybe reduce it. I voted for Trump because I was sick of Leftists telling me how to live and what to say. I am glad he won and triggered them.

I’ve always been disturbed by the joy Trump supporters have in pissing off their countrymen.

When the countrymen vilify me for my disparate beliefs, I will enjoy pissing them off. You can only push a reasonable person so far.

 

[Zorro!]

Winning: Trump surges to best odds for reelection since impeachment started.

What’s more, gamblers do not think Trump will be forced from office over impeachment.

According to Betonline.ag odds just posted, the long shot odds are 1-in-10.

 

[iceberg]

sure, and trump was elected with the information out there. Why do you wish to remove what people agreed to accept? are you not for their rights? just wondering where your road goes.

The PEOPLE outvoted trump voters The states won for him Trump violated the law That speaks 1000 words

the PEOPLE never mattered. they ONLY matter now that it gives you something to get mad about.

he won by the process we've had in place for a long long time. end of story. anything else is just butthurt.

they believe in the framers while they don't believe in the framers. about it?

It is what makes a person a leftist.

yea, funny to hear them cry CONSTITUTION RULES then bitch about this part of it cause it didn't work in their favor.

well, which is it? do you support the constitution or your emotional needs?

the course to take when you lose, is to figure out how to win the next one.

that would seem to be logical. what did we do wrong and how do we improve and build a platform that people want?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

but it is a fact. And it's most likely true, but we won't know until it's investigated. why don't you want to know if they did interfere with the 2016 elections? I thought that was the entire point of Mueller. Are you saying that wasn't the point?

Facts? Crowdstrike is not owned by a Ukrainian oligarch. The DNC was hacked by Russia. These are facts, which was the point of the Mueller report.

Who said they did? Trump asked for the PM to look into them. Why are you against that? again, you avoided my question. Didn't the crowdstrike folks say it was a ukrainian worm?

No, it was not a Ukrainian worm.

well why didn't you quote what they said then? I mean you're telling me I'm in error. well prove it.

Why should I prove what you’re trying to claim?

Bears in the Midst: Intrusion into the Democratic National Committee »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...testimony-front-house-intelligence-committee/

Read the Jordan - questioning. Pretty poignant and shows why Trump was hesitant. I would be in Trump's shoes.

 

[colfax_m]

Good thing we have a president who is so consistent about providing military aid and not withholding it for bullshit reasons.

I do not believe it was bullshit reasons. Obama never armed the Ukrainians, Trump did. Then he finds out that they plotted against him in 2016 and overtly so. He wanted to make sure the new regime was not as corrupt given what happened with Biden and his son. It was probably not the best way to go about it but it is not an impeachable offense per Alan Dershowitz. I agree with him.

They didn’t plot against him. Trump rambling about some false allegations that corrupt Ukrainians told him about Crowdstrike is not a plot.

Not so:

I can’t watch YouTube videos right now. Can you provide me a brief synopsis?

This isn’t about Ukrainian politicians saying mean things about Trump, is it?

It is about Ukrainian politicians overtly pushing Clinton over Trump. Not mean things. You should watch it.

Specifically:

The Ukrainian ambassador here in the United States, Ambassador Chaly, wrote an op-ed in The Hill, said this. "Trump's Comments Send Wrong Message."

We have former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yatsenyuk who criticized Candidate Trump. We had Mr. Avakov.

I believe earlier you said, Ambassador, that Mr. Avakov was the individual who first alerted you to the efforts of Mr. Giuliani. Mr. Avakov, back during this same time period in the months just prior to the 2016 election, called Mr. -- or -- excuse, me, called then-Candidate Trump all kinds of names, called him a terrorist.

Mr. Lutsenko, a member of parliament who was a source for Fusion GPS and the now-somewhat famous dossier that flowed from Fusion's work. He said this in The Financial Times, again, in August of 2016 when you first arrived in -- in Ukraine. He said this, "The majority of Ukrainians -- the majority of Ukrainian politicians are on Hillary Clinton's side."


JORDAN: He said this in his testimony on Wednesday. "On September 11th, I learned that the hold had been lifted the next day." Ambassador Taylor said, "I conveyed this news to President Zelensky and the Ukrainian foreign minister, and I reminded Mr. Yermak of the high strategic value of bipartisan support for Ukraine and the importance of not getting involved in other countries' elections.

So what I'm wondering is, this is the day after the aid's been lifted, Ambassador Taylor made this statement to the Ukrainian government. And he makes this after there is nothing been done by Ukraine to influence our election. Because President Zelensky didn't announce he was doing an investigation, and the aid was lifted. But he felt he needed to say that.

But in 2016, when we know that the majority of Ukrainian politicians want Clinton to win because it was said by a member of parliament when the ambassador to the United States from Ukraine writes an op-ed criticizing then-Candidate Trump, when Mr. Avakov calls Candidate Trump all kinds of names, nobody goes and talks to them and tells them to knock it off?

As describes, the “plot” against Trump is that Ukrainians spoke out against Trump after he made statements that they found threatening to their national interests.

That’s pretty pathetic.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I do not believe it was bullshit reasons. Obama never armed the Ukrainians, Trump did. Then he finds out that they plotted against him in 2016 and overtly so. He wanted to make sure the new regime was not as corrupt given what happened with Biden and his son. It was probably not the best way to go about it but it is not an impeachable offense per Alan Dershowitz. I agree with him.

They didn’t plot against him. Trump rambling about some false allegations that corrupt Ukrainians told him about Crowdstrike is not a plot.

Not so:

I can’t watch YouTube videos right now. Can you provide me a brief synopsis?

This isn’t about Ukrainian politicians saying mean things about Trump, is it?

It is about Ukrainian politicians overtly pushing Clinton over Trump. Not mean things. You should watch it.

Specifically:

The Ukrainian ambassador here in the United States, Ambassador Chaly, wrote an op-ed in The Hill, said this. "Trump's Comments Send Wrong Message."

We have former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yatsenyuk who criticized Candidate Trump. We had Mr. Avakov.

I believe earlier you said, Ambassador, that Mr. Avakov was the individual who first alerted you to the efforts of Mr. Giuliani. Mr. Avakov, back during this same time period in the months just prior to the 2016 election, called Mr. -- or -- excuse, me, called then-Candidate Trump all kinds of names, called him a terrorist.

Mr. Lutsenko, a member of parliament who was a source for Fusion GPS and the now-somewhat famous dossier that flowed from Fusion's work. He said this in The Financial Times, again, in August of 2016 when you first arrived in -- in Ukraine. He said this, "The majority of Ukrainians -- the majority of Ukrainian politicians are on Hillary Clinton's side."


JORDAN: He said this in his testimony on Wednesday. "On September 11th, I learned that the hold had been lifted the next day." Ambassador Taylor said, "I conveyed this news to President Zelensky and the Ukrainian foreign minister, and I reminded Mr. Yermak of the high strategic value of bipartisan support for Ukraine and the importance of not getting involved in other countries' elections.

So what I'm wondering is, this is the day after the aid's been lifted, Ambassador Taylor made this statement to the Ukrainian government. And he makes this after there is nothing been done by Ukraine to influence our election. Because President Zelensky didn't announce he was doing an investigation, and the aid was lifted. But he felt he needed to say that.

But in 2016, when we know that the majority of Ukrainian politicians want Clinton to win because it was said by a member of parliament when the ambassador to the United States from Ukraine writes an op-ed criticizing then-Candidate Trump, when Mr. Avakov calls Candidate Trump all kinds of names, nobody goes and talks to them and tells them to knock it off?

As describes, the “plot” against Trump is that Ukrainians spoke out against Trump after he made statements that they found threatening to their national interests.

That’s pretty pathetic.

In your opinion. I disagree. Am I allowed to do so? I think it is pathetic that Leftists attack those who disagree with them.

 

[colfax_m]

They didn’t plot against him. Trump rambling about some false allegations that corrupt Ukrainians told him about Crowdstrike is not a plot.

Not so:

I can’t watch YouTube videos right now. Can you provide me a brief synopsis?

This isn’t about Ukrainian politicians saying mean things about Trump, is it?

It is about Ukrainian politicians overtly pushing Clinton over Trump. Not mean things. You should watch it.

Specifically:

The Ukrainian ambassador here in the United States, Ambassador Chaly, wrote an op-ed in The Hill, said this. "Trump's Comments Send Wrong Message."

We have former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yatsenyuk who criticized Candidate Trump. We had Mr. Avakov.

I believe earlier you said, Ambassador, that Mr. Avakov was the individual who first alerted you to the efforts of Mr. Giuliani. Mr. Avakov, back during this same time period in the months just prior to the 2016 election, called Mr. -- or -- excuse, me, called then-Candidate Trump all kinds of names, called him a terrorist.

Mr. Lutsenko, a member of parliament who was a source for Fusion GPS and the now-somewhat famous dossier that flowed from Fusion's work. He said this in The Financial Times, again, in August of 2016 when you first arrived in -- in Ukraine. He said this, "The majority of Ukrainians -- the majority of Ukrainian politicians are on Hillary Clinton's side."


JORDAN: He said this in his testimony on Wednesday. "On September 11th, I learned that the hold had been lifted the next day." Ambassador Taylor said, "I conveyed this news to President Zelensky and the Ukrainian foreign minister, and I reminded Mr. Yermak of the high strategic value of bipartisan support for Ukraine and the importance of not getting involved in other countries' elections.

So what I'm wondering is, this is the day after the aid's been lifted, Ambassador Taylor made this statement to the Ukrainian government. And he makes this after there is nothing been done by Ukraine to influence our election. Because President Zelensky didn't announce he was doing an investigation, and the aid was lifted. But he felt he needed to say that.

But in 2016, when we know that the majority of Ukrainian politicians want Clinton to win because it was said by a member of parliament when the ambassador to the United States from Ukraine writes an op-ed criticizing then-Candidate Trump, when Mr. Avakov calls Candidate Trump all kinds of names, nobody goes and talks to them and tells them to knock it off?

As describes, the “plot” against Trump is that Ukrainians spoke out against Trump after he made statements that they found threatening to their national interests.

That’s pretty pathetic.

In your opinion. I disagree. Am I allowed to do so? I think it is pathetic that Leftists attack those who disagree with them.

I mean, if that’s the best you have, so be it. It’s an incredibly weak argument.

Let me ask you this. Are Ukrainian politicians allowed to disagree with Trump?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Perhaps but we live in a world full of bias. Today is case in point. BHO was a players coach and other countries loved him and walked all over us. Not the case with Trump. Like I said, I like his policies and I like that he is holding other countries accountable. We are not the world's piggy bank.

We should try to reduce bias, not embrace it.

Money is power. The less involved we are, the less power we have.

Impossible to eliminate bias, maybe reduce it. I voted for Trump because I was sick of Leftists telling me how to live and what to say. I am glad he won and triggered them.

I’ve always been disturbed by the joy Trump supporters have in pissing off their countrymen.

When the countrymen vilify me for my disparate beliefs, I will enjoy pissing them off. You can only push a reasonable person so far.

Grow a skin. I’ve been told for decades that I’m not a real American. I‘ve been a terrorist sympathizer. I’ve been a fascist. I’ve been a commie. I’ve been a lot of things.

Never have I sought revenge.

I don't care about me, dumbass. But I have kids and when you take away their rights to think for themselves that is when I get annoyed. You're not a real American. You're a parasite because you vilify those that disagree with you. It is OK to agree to disagree. You don't believe that.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Not so:

I can’t watch YouTube videos right now. Can you provide me a brief synopsis?

This isn’t about Ukrainian politicians saying mean things about Trump, is it?

It is about Ukrainian politicians overtly pushing Clinton over Trump. Not mean things. You should watch it.

Specifically:

The Ukrainian ambassador here in the United States, Ambassador Chaly, wrote an op-ed in The Hill, said this. "Trump's Comments Send Wrong Message."

We have former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yatsenyuk who criticized Candidate Trump. We had Mr. Avakov.

I believe earlier you said, Ambassador, that Mr. Avakov was the individual who first alerted you to the efforts of Mr. Giuliani. Mr. Avakov, back during this same time period in the months just prior to the 2016 election, called Mr. -- or -- excuse, me, called then-Candidate Trump all kinds of names, called him a terrorist.

Mr. Lutsenko, a member of parliament who was a source for Fusion GPS and the now-somewhat famous dossier that flowed from Fusion's work. He said this in The Financial Times, again, in August of 2016 when you first arrived in -- in Ukraine. He said this, "The majority of Ukrainians -- the majority of Ukrainian politicians are on Hillary Clinton's side."


JORDAN: He said this in his testimony on Wednesday. "On September 11th, I learned that the hold had been lifted the next day." Ambassador Taylor said, "I conveyed this news to President Zelensky and the Ukrainian foreign minister, and I reminded Mr. Yermak of the high strategic value of bipartisan support for Ukraine and the importance of not getting involved in other countries' elections.

So what I'm wondering is, this is the day after the aid's been lifted, Ambassador Taylor made this statement to the Ukrainian government. And he makes this after there is nothing been done by Ukraine to influence our election. Because President Zelensky didn't announce he was doing an investigation, and the aid was lifted. But he felt he needed to say that.

But in 2016, when we know that the majority of Ukrainian politicians want Clinton to win because it was said by a member of parliament when the ambassador to the United States from Ukraine writes an op-ed criticizing then-Candidate Trump, when Mr. Avakov calls Candidate Trump all kinds of names, nobody goes and talks to them and tells them to knock it off?

As describes, the “plot” against Trump is that Ukrainians spoke out against Trump after he made statements that they found threatening to their national interests.

That’s pretty pathetic.

In your opinion. I disagree. Am I allowed to do so? I think it is pathetic that Leftists attack those who disagree with them.

I mean, if that’s the best you have, so be it. It’s an incredibly weak argument.

Let me ask you this. Are Ukrainian politicians allowed to disagree with Trump?

Of course. But if you're going to overtly support their rivals then Trump should have the ability to gauge what is happening. Ukraine is highly corrupt. Banks are not even allowed to wire money to clients in the Ukraine many a times because of this. Trump had every right to ask anything he wanted to. Instead of saying "Bidens" he should have said just Burisma. That is his bad but it is not an impeachable offense.

DERSHOWITZ: It's not any kind of a crime. It may be a political sin — that's a good reason for deciding who to vote for — but it's not a good reason for removing a duly-elected president. The Framers had a debate about this, and they rejected the concept of "maladministration" as a ground for impeachment. You need to show bribery, treason, or high crimes and misdemeanors. And even in the worst-case scenario by the phone call, it's not there.

 

[ChinSwee]

BBC News: Protestors have gathered outside Capitol Hill demanding impeachment of Donald Trump

 

[colfax_m]

I can’t watch YouTube videos right now. Can you provide me a brief synopsis?

This isn’t about Ukrainian politicians saying mean things about Trump, is it?

It is about Ukrainian politicians overtly pushing Clinton over Trump. Not mean things. You should watch it.

Specifically:

The Ukrainian ambassador here in the United States, Ambassador Chaly, wrote an op-ed in The Hill, said this. "Trump's Comments Send Wrong Message."

We have former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yatsenyuk who criticized Candidate Trump. We had Mr. Avakov.

I believe earlier you said, Ambassador, that Mr. Avakov was the individual who first alerted you to the efforts of Mr. Giuliani. Mr. Avakov, back during this same time period in the months just prior to the 2016 election, called Mr. -- or -- excuse, me, called then-Candidate Trump all kinds of names, called him a terrorist.

Mr. Lutsenko, a member of parliament who was a source for Fusion GPS and the now-somewhat famous dossier that flowed from Fusion's work. He said this in The Financial Times, again, in August of 2016 when you first arrived in -- in Ukraine. He said this, "The majority of Ukrainians -- the majority of Ukrainian politicians are on Hillary Clinton's side."


JORDAN: He said this in his testimony on Wednesday. "On September 11th, I learned that the hold had been lifted the next day." Ambassador Taylor said, "I conveyed this news to President Zelensky and the Ukrainian foreign minister, and I reminded Mr. Yermak of the high strategic value of bipartisan support for Ukraine and the importance of not getting involved in other countries' elections.

So what I'm wondering is, this is the day after the aid's been lifted, Ambassador Taylor made this statement to the Ukrainian government. And he makes this after there is nothing been done by Ukraine to influence our election. Because President Zelensky didn't announce he was doing an investigation, and the aid was lifted. But he felt he needed to say that.

But in 2016, when we know that the majority of Ukrainian politicians want Clinton to win because it was said by a member of parliament when the ambassador to the United States from Ukraine writes an op-ed criticizing then-Candidate Trump, when Mr. Avakov calls Candidate Trump all kinds of names, nobody goes and talks to them and tells them to knock it off?

As describes, the “plot” against Trump is that Ukrainians spoke out against Trump after he made statements that they found threatening to their national interests.

That’s pretty pathetic.

In your opinion. I disagree. Am I allowed to do so? I think it is pathetic that Leftists attack those who disagree with them.

I mean, if that’s the best you have, so be it. It’s an incredibly weak argument.

Let me ask you this. Are Ukrainian politicians allowed to disagree with Trump?

Of course. But if you're going to overtly support their rivals then Trump should have the ability to gauge what is happening. Ukraine is highly corrupt. Banks are not even allowed to wire money to clients in the Ukraine many a times because of this. Trump had every right to ask anything he wanted to. Instead of saying "Bidens" he should have said just Burisma. That is his bad but it is not an impeachable offense.

DERSHOWITZ: It's not any kind of a crime. It may be a political sin — that's a good reason for deciding who to vote for — but it's not a good reason for removing a duly-elected president. The Framers had a debate about this, and they rejected the concept of "maladministration" as a ground for impeachment. You need to show bribery, treason, or high crimes and misdemeanors. And even in the worst-case scenario by the phone call, it's not there.

I might have missed something but how do we go from “politicians voicing their opposition to Trump” to corruption?

Those don’t seem to be in the same category.

 

[colfax_m]

We should try to reduce bias, not embrace it.

Money is power. The less involved we are, the less power we have.

Impossible to eliminate bias, maybe reduce it. I voted for Trump because I was sick of Leftists telling me how to live and what to say. I am glad he won and triggered them.

I’ve always been disturbed by the joy Trump supporters have in pissing off their countrymen.

When the countrymen vilify me for my disparate beliefs, I will enjoy pissing them off. You can only push a reasonable person so far.

Grow a skin. I’ve been told for decades that I’m not a real American. I‘ve been a terrorist sympathizer. I’ve been a fascist. I’ve been a commie. I’ve been a lot of things.

Never have I sought revenge.

I don't care about me, dumbass. But I have kids and when you take away their rights to think for themselves that is when I get annoyed. You're not a real American. You're a parasite because you vilify those that disagree with you. It is OK to agree to disagree. You don't believe that.

How is anyone taking away your kid’s right to think for themselves?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

It is about Ukrainian politicians overtly pushing Clinton over Trump. Not mean things. You should watch it.

Specifically:

The Ukrainian ambassador here in the United States, Ambassador Chaly, wrote an op-ed in The Hill, said this. "Trump's Comments Send Wrong Message."

We have former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yatsenyuk who criticized Candidate Trump. We had Mr. Avakov.

I believe earlier you said, Ambassador, that Mr. Avakov was the individual who first alerted you to the efforts of Mr. Giuliani. Mr. Avakov, back during this same time period in the months just prior to the 2016 election, called Mr. -- or -- excuse, me, called then-Candidate Trump all kinds of names, called him a terrorist.

Mr. Lutsenko, a member of parliament who was a source for Fusion GPS and the now-somewhat famous dossier that flowed from Fusion's work. He said this in The Financial Times, again, in August of 2016 when you first arrived in -- in Ukraine. He said this, "The majority of Ukrainians -- the majority of Ukrainian politicians are on Hillary Clinton's side."


JORDAN: He said this in his testimony on Wednesday. "On September 11th, I learned that the hold had been lifted the next day." Ambassador Taylor said, "I conveyed this news to President Zelensky and the Ukrainian foreign minister, and I reminded Mr. Yermak of the high strategic value of bipartisan support for Ukraine and the importance of not getting involved in other countries' elections.

So what I'm wondering is, this is the day after the aid's been lifted, Ambassador Taylor made this statement to the Ukrainian government. And he makes this after there is nothing been done by Ukraine to influence our election. Because President Zelensky didn't announce he was doing an investigation, and the aid was lifted. But he felt he needed to say that.

But in 2016, when we know that the majority of Ukrainian politicians want Clinton to win because it was said by a member of parliament when the ambassador to the United States from Ukraine writes an op-ed criticizing then-Candidate Trump, when Mr. Avakov calls Candidate Trump all kinds of names, nobody goes and talks to them and tells them to knock it off?

As describes, the “plot” against Trump is that Ukrainians spoke out against Trump after he made statements that they found threatening to their national interests.

That’s pretty pathetic.

In your opinion. I disagree. Am I allowed to do so? I think it is pathetic that Leftists attack those who disagree with them.

I mean, if that’s the best you have, so be it. It’s an incredibly weak argument.

Let me ask you this. Are Ukrainian politicians allowed to disagree with Trump?

Of course. But if you're going to overtly support their rivals then Trump should have the ability to gauge what is happening. Ukraine is highly corrupt. Banks are not even allowed to wire money to clients in the Ukraine many a times because of this. Trump had every right to ask anything he wanted to. Instead of saying "Bidens" he should have said just Burisma. That is his bad but it is not an impeachable offense.

DERSHOWITZ: It's not any kind of a crime. It may be a political sin — that's a good reason for deciding who to vote for — but it's not a good reason for removing a duly-elected president. The Framers had a debate about this, and they rejected the concept of "maladministration" as a ground for impeachment. You need to show bribery, treason, or high crimes and misdemeanors. And even in the worst-case scenario by the phone call, it's not there.

I might have missed something but how do we go from “politicians voicing their opposition to Trump” to corruption?

Those don’t seem to be in the same category.

Ukraine is known as a corrupt country. That is beyond debate. Now this corrupt country is overtly anti Trump. Seems suspicious to me.

 

[colfax_m]

As describes, the “plot” against Trump is that Ukrainians spoke out against Trump after he made statements that they found threatening to their national interests.

That’s pretty pathetic.

In your opinion. I disagree. Am I allowed to do so? I think it is pathetic that Leftists attack those who disagree with them.

I mean, if that’s the best you have, so be it. It’s an incredibly weak argument.

Let me ask you this. Are Ukrainian politicians allowed to disagree with Trump?

Of course. But if you're going to overtly support their rivals then Trump should have the ability to gauge what is happening. Ukraine is highly corrupt. Banks are not even allowed to wire money to clients in the Ukraine many a times because of this. Trump had every right to ask anything he wanted to. Instead of saying "Bidens" he should have said just Burisma. That is his bad but it is not an impeachable offense.

DERSHOWITZ: It's not any kind of a crime. It may be a political sin — that's a good reason for deciding who to vote for — but it's not a good reason for removing a duly-elected president. The Framers had a debate about this, and they rejected the concept of "maladministration" as a ground for impeachment. You need to show bribery, treason, or high crimes and misdemeanors. And even in the worst-case scenario by the phone call, it's not there.

I might have missed something but how do we go from “politicians voicing their opposition to Trump” to corruption?

Those don’t seem to be in the same category.

Ukraine is known as a corrupt country. That is beyond debate. Now this corrupt country is overtly anti Trump. Seems suspicious to me.

So they’re connected simply because they’re in the same country?

Good lord, that’s about as tenuous of a connection you could possibly make.

By the way, the whole country isn’t corrupt and a lot of the really corrupt ones are now hanging out with Giuliani.

 

[iceberg]

Not so:

I can’t watch YouTube videos right now. Can you provide me a brief synopsis?

This isn’t about Ukrainian politicians saying mean things about Trump, is it?

It is about Ukrainian politicians overtly pushing Clinton over Trump. Not mean things. You should watch it.

Specifically:

The Ukrainian ambassador here in the United States, Ambassador Chaly, wrote an op-ed in The Hill, said this. "Trump's Comments Send Wrong Message."

We have former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yatsenyuk who criticized Candidate Trump. We had Mr. Avakov.

I believe earlier you said, Ambassador, that Mr. Avakov was the individual who first alerted you to the efforts of Mr. Giuliani. Mr. Avakov, back during this same time period in the months just prior to the 2016 election, called Mr. -- or -- excuse, me, called then-Candidate Trump all kinds of names, called him a terrorist.

Mr. Lutsenko, a member of parliament who was a source for Fusion GPS and the now-somewhat famous dossier that flowed from Fusion's work. He said this in The Financial Times, again, in August of 2016 when you first arrived in -- in Ukraine. He said this, "The majority of Ukrainians -- the majority of Ukrainian politicians are on Hillary Clinton's side."


JORDAN: He said this in his testimony on Wednesday. "On September 11th, I learned that the hold had been lifted the next day." Ambassador Taylor said, "I conveyed this news to President Zelensky and the Ukrainian foreign minister, and I reminded Mr. Yermak of the high strategic value of bipartisan support for Ukraine and the importance of not getting involved in other countries' elections.

So what I'm wondering is, this is the day after the aid's been lifted, Ambassador Taylor made this statement to the Ukrainian government. And he makes this after there is nothing been done by Ukraine to influence our election. Because President Zelensky didn't announce he was doing an investigation, and the aid was lifted. But he felt he needed to say that.

But in 2016, when we know that the majority of Ukrainian politicians want Clinton to win because it was said by a member of parliament when the ambassador to the United States from Ukraine writes an op-ed criticizing then-Candidate Trump, when Mr. Avakov calls Candidate Trump all kinds of names, nobody goes and talks to them and tells them to knock it off?

As describes, the “plot” against Trump is that Ukrainians spoke out against Trump after he made statements that they found threatening to their national interests.

That’s pretty pathetic.

In your opinion. I disagree. Am I allowed to do so? I think it is pathetic that Leftists attack those who disagree with them.

I mean, if that’s the best you have, so be it. It’s an incredibly weak argument.

Let me ask you this. Are Ukrainian politicians allowed to disagree with Trump?

is trump allowed to look into their very own suggestions that the DNC was trying to get them to give dirt on trump?

Ukrainian Embassy confirms DNC contractor solicited Trump dirt in 2016

if you're going to use them as a point of reference, better be ready to use all the info and not cherry pick as you like to do.

 

[jc456]

but it is a fact. And it's most likely true, but we won't know until it's investigated. why don't you want to know if they did interfere with the 2016 elections? I thought that was the entire point of Mueller. Are you saying that wasn't the point?

Facts? Crowdstrike is not owned by a Ukrainian oligarch. The DNC was hacked by Russia. These are facts, which was the point of the Mueller report.

Who said they did? Trump asked for the PM to look into them. Why are you against that? again, you avoided my question. Didn't the crowdstrike folks say it was a ukrainian worm?

No, it was not a Ukrainian worm.

well why didn't you quote what they said then? I mean you're telling me I'm in error. well prove it.

Why should I prove what you’re trying to claim?

Bears in the Midst: Intrusion into the Democratic National Committee »

Ok, I'm a proud man, perhaps I misread this back in the day. But again,

Malware Used In DNC Breach Found Tracking Ukraine Military

 

[colfax_m]

I can’t watch YouTube videos right now. Can you provide me a brief synopsis?

This isn’t about Ukrainian politicians saying mean things about Trump, is it?

It is about Ukrainian politicians overtly pushing Clinton over Trump. Not mean things. You should watch it.

Specifically:

The Ukrainian ambassador here in the United States, Ambassador Chaly, wrote an op-ed in The Hill, said this. "Trump's Comments Send Wrong Message."

We have former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yatsenyuk who criticized Candidate Trump. We had Mr. Avakov.

I believe earlier you said, Ambassador, that Mr. Avakov was the individual who first alerted you to the efforts of Mr. Giuliani. Mr. Avakov, back during this same time period in the months just prior to the 2016 election, called Mr. -- or -- excuse, me, called then-Candidate Trump all kinds of names, called him a terrorist.

Mr. Lutsenko, a member of parliament who was a source for Fusion GPS and the now-somewhat famous dossier that flowed from Fusion's work. He said this in The Financial Times, again, in August of 2016 when you first arrived in -- in Ukraine. He said this, "The majority of Ukrainians -- the majority of Ukrainian politicians are on Hillary Clinton's side."


JORDAN: He said this in his testimony on Wednesday. "On September 11th, I learned that the hold had been lifted the next day." Ambassador Taylor said, "I conveyed this news to President Zelensky and the Ukrainian foreign minister, and I reminded Mr. Yermak of the high strategic value of bipartisan support for Ukraine and the importance of not getting involved in other countries' elections.

So what I'm wondering is, this is the day after the aid's been lifted, Ambassador Taylor made this statement to the Ukrainian government. And he makes this after there is nothing been done by Ukraine to influence our election. Because President Zelensky didn't announce he was doing an investigation, and the aid was lifted. But he felt he needed to say that.

But in 2016, when we know that the majority of Ukrainian politicians want Clinton to win because it was said by a member of parliament when the ambassador to the United States from Ukraine writes an op-ed criticizing then-Candidate Trump, when Mr. Avakov calls Candidate Trump all kinds of names, nobody goes and talks to them and tells them to knock it off?

As describes, the “plot” against Trump is that Ukrainians spoke out against Trump after he made statements that they found threatening to their national interests.

That’s pretty pathetic.

In your opinion. I disagree. Am I allowed to do so? I think it is pathetic that Leftists attack those who disagree with them.

I mean, if that’s the best you have, so be it. It’s an incredibly weak argument.

Let me ask you this. Are Ukrainian politicians allowed to disagree with Trump?

is trump allowed to look into their very own suggestions that the DNC was trying to get them to give dirt on trump?

Ukrainian Embassy confirms DNC contractor solicited Trump dirt in 2016

if you're going to use them as a point of reference, better be ready to use all the info and not cherry pick as you like to do.

I’m not cherry picking, I’m only going based on what’s presented.

So what if the DNC asked for information about Manafort? What does that have to do with our government? Seems like a personal issue for Trump.