Official 2010 Baseball Thread

[Article 15]

We could get destroyed in the Bronx this weekend.

This year has been so full of suck.

or we could sweep and be right back in it. I remember guys in my carpool in 2004 after game 3 of the alcs complaining about the damned yankees and about how the bosox had done it again.... gotten our hopes up only to piss it all away. don't ever give up hope.... I think the team has great character.

Outside of Bard and sometimes Papelbon this team doesn't have a bullpen to speak of. Youk is gone for the season and Pedey is still weeks away. I think it would be great to see them pull something like that off but if it happens it will have to be on the back of our starting pitching. A split this weekend is a crushing blow.

 

[maineman]

We could get destroyed in the Bronx this weekend.

This year has been so full of suck.

or we could sweep and be right back in it. I remember guys in my carpool in 2004 after game 3 of the alcs complaining about the damned yankees and about how the bosox had done it again.... gotten our hopes up only to piss it all away. don't ever give up hope.... I think the team has great character.

Outside of Bard and sometimes Papelbon this team doesn't have a bullpen to speak of. Youk is gone for the season and Pedey is still weeks away. I think it would be great to see them pull something like that off but if it happens it will have to be on the back of our starting pitching. A split this weekend is a crushing blow.

keep the faith! and keep your fingers crossed!!

 

[Paulie]

We could get destroyed in the Bronx this weekend.

This year has been so full of suck.

or we could sweep and be right back in it. I remember guys in my carpool in 2004 after game 3 of the alcs complaining about the damned yankees and about how the bosox had done it again.... gotten our hopes up only to piss it all away. don't ever give up hope.... I think the team has great character.

Outside of Bard and sometimes Papelbon this team doesn't have a bullpen to speak of. Youk is gone for the season and Pedey is still weeks away. I think it would be great to see them pull something like that off but if it happens it will have to be on the back of our starting pitching. A split this weekend is a crushing blow.

Dude, we just pulled our friggin bootstraps up and got our asses right back in the division race after being down 7 games and looking DISMAL.

And we're doing it without Howard, Utley, and Victorino. Not to mention Polanco, Rollins, and Ruiz all at some point during the season.

We've only had our projected opening day lineup for like 11 games the entire season.

Major league players are in the majors because they're the best of the best. Big names are SOMETIMES only good enough to fill seats. Those guys who come in when the big names are out are just as capable of stepping up and pulling off wins with major league contributions.

It ain't over til it's OVER.

 

[Truthspeaker]

or we could sweep and be right back in it. I remember guys in my carpool in 2004 after game 3 of the alcs complaining about the damned yankees and about how the bosox had done it again.... gotten our hopes up only to piss it all away. don't ever give up hope.... I think the team has great character.

Outside of Bard and sometimes Papelbon this team doesn't have a bullpen to speak of. Youk is gone for the season and Pedey is still weeks away. I think it would be great to see them pull something like that off but if it happens it will have to be on the back of our starting pitching. A split this weekend is a crushing blow.

Dude, we just pulled our friggin bootstraps up and got our asses right back in the division race after being down 7 games and looking DISMAL.

And we're doing it without Howard, Utley, and Victorino. Not to mention Polanco, Rollins, and Ruiz all at some point during the season.

We've only had our projected opening day lineup for like 11 games the entire season.

Major league players are in the majors because they're the best of the best. Big names are SOMETIMES only good enough to fill seats. Those guys who come in when the big names are out are just as capable of stepping up and pulling off wins with major league contributions.

It ain't over til it's OVER.

You guys are gonna always be in it if the umps keep blowing calls in your favor like they did last night and against the Giants at home plate. You SHOULD have some bad calls go your way for once.

 

[maineman]

Red Sox take game one of the series against the yankees on the back of a great performance by Clay.... one step at a time.

 

[Paulie]

Outside of Bard and sometimes Papelbon this team doesn't have a bullpen to speak of. Youk is gone for the season and Pedey is still weeks away. I think it would be great to see them pull something like that off but if it happens it will have to be on the back of our starting pitching. A split this weekend is a crushing blow.

Dude, we just pulled our friggin bootstraps up and got our asses right back in the division race after being down 7 games and looking DISMAL.

And we're doing it without Howard, Utley, and Victorino. Not to mention Polanco, Rollins, and Ruiz all at some point during the season.

We've only had our projected opening day lineup for like 11 games the entire season.

Major league players are in the majors because they're the best of the best. Big names are SOMETIMES only good enough to fill seats. Those guys who come in when the big names are out are just as capable of stepping up and pulling off wins with major league contributions.

It ain't over til it's OVER.

You guys are gonna always be in it if the umps keep blowing calls in your favor like they did last night and against the Giants at home plate. You SHOULD have some bad calls go your way for once.

I can't believe they made that into a national highlight. Umps blow calls every day, so what?

The thing is though, we were shown no replay angle that definitively proved it one way or the other. The ball hits fair before going over the bag, and lands fair after it, so you would ASSUME that it stayed fair because it seems strange that it would curve around the bag foul and then come back fair again in that split second.

If that was the only angle that a potential replay review ump had in the event that they had that feature for that type of play, I would imagine they would come out saying it was inconclusive. You need to physically see exactly where the ball was in relation to the line/bag.

They would need an overhead shot, or one that was right on the line rather than from the shortstop's perspective.

But really though dude, that was one game, and it's not like that was the deal breaker. There was still more ball to be played, and it would have only given them a 1 run lead.

 

[Article 15]

Red Sox take game one of the series against the yankees on the back of a great performance by Clay.... one step at a time.

Let's see if Kermit the Frog ... er .. I mean John Lackey can keep the momentum going.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Dude, we just pulled our friggin bootstraps up and got our asses right back in the division race after being down 7 games and looking DISMAL.

And we're doing it without Howard, Utley, and Victorino. Not to mention Polanco, Rollins, and Ruiz all at some point during the season.

We've only had our projected opening day lineup for like 11 games the entire season.

Major league players are in the majors because they're the best of the best. Big names are SOMETIMES only good enough to fill seats. Those guys who come in when the big names are out are just as capable of stepping up and pulling off wins with major league contributions.

It ain't over til it's OVER.

You guys are gonna always be in it if the umps keep blowing calls in your favor like they did last night and against the Giants at home plate. You SHOULD have some bad calls go your way for once.

I can't believe they made that into a national highlight. Umps blow calls every day, so what?

The thing is though, we were shown no replay angle that definitively proved it one way or the other. The ball hits fair before going over the bag, and lands fair after it, so you would ASSUME that it stayed fair because it seems strange that it would curve around the bag foul and then come back fair again in that split second.

If that was the only angle that a potential replay review ump had in the event that they had that feature for that type of play, I would imagine they would come out saying it was inconclusive. You need to physically see exactly where the ball was in relation to the line/bag.

They would need an overhead shot, or one that was right on the line rather than from the shortstop's perspective.

But really though dude, that was one game, and it's not like that was the deal breaker. There was still more ball to be played, and it would have only given them a 1 run lead.

Of course you don't understand why it became a national lowlight. You're a Phillies Phan. It's to be expected. It doesn't matter if it curves mid air and does whatever. If it both starts and ends fair it doesn't matter, it's fair. The umps defiance is the best.

And oh yes! 1 game in a pennant race can make the difference, not to mention 2 blown calls that have given you guys wins that should have been losses. Every little bit counts.

 

[Paulie]

You guys are gonna always be in it if the umps keep blowing calls in your favor like they did last night and against the Giants at home plate. You SHOULD have some bad calls go your way for once.

I can't believe they made that into a national highlight. Umps blow calls every day, so what?

The thing is though, we were shown no replay angle that definitively proved it one way or the other. The ball hits fair before going over the bag, and lands fair after it, so you would ASSUME that it stayed fair because it seems strange that it would curve around the bag foul and then come back fair again in that split second.

If that was the only angle that a potential replay review ump had in the event that they had that feature for that type of play, I would imagine they would come out saying it was inconclusive. You need to physically see exactly where the ball was in relation to the line/bag.

They would need an overhead shot, or one that was right on the line rather than from the shortstop's perspective.

But really though dude, that was one game, and it's not like that was the deal breaker. There was still more ball to be played, and it would have only given them a 1 run lead.

Of course you don't understand why it became a national lowlight. You're a Phillies Phan. It's to be expected. It doesn't matter if it curves mid air and does whatever. If it both starts and ends fair it doesn't matter, it's fair. The umps defiance is the best.

And oh yes! 1 game in a pennant race can make the difference, not to mention 2 blown calls that have given you guys wins that should have been losses. Every little bit counts.

Fair or foul on a ground ball is judged based on what territory the ball was in as it passes the bag.

Where it ultimately lands is irrelevant, by virtue of that rule.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I can't believe they made that into a national highlight. Umps blow calls every day, so what?

The thing is though, we were shown no replay angle that definitively proved it one way or the other. The ball hits fair before going over the bag, and lands fair after it, so you would ASSUME that it stayed fair because it seems strange that it would curve around the bag foul and then come back fair again in that split second.

If that was the only angle that a potential replay review ump had in the event that they had that feature for that type of play, I would imagine they would come out saying it was inconclusive. You need to physically see exactly where the ball was in relation to the line/bag.

They would need an overhead shot, or one that was right on the line rather than from the shortstop's perspective.

But really though dude, that was one game, and it's not like that was the deal breaker. There was still more ball to be played, and it would have only given them a 1 run lead.

Of course you don't understand why it became a national lowlight. You're a Phillies Phan. It's to be expected. It doesn't matter if it curves mid air and does whatever. If it both starts and ends fair it doesn't matter, it's fair. The umps defiance is the best.

And oh yes! 1 game in a pennant race can make the difference, not to mention 2 blown calls that have given you guys wins that should have been losses. Every little bit counts.

Fair or foul on a ground ball is judged based on what territory the ball was in as it passes the bag.

Where it ultimately lands is irrelevant, by virtue of that rule.

You sound like that ridiculous umpire! You know the guy that doesn't know the rule. Please quote the rule and let's examine it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Flatly wrong. Where the ball ends up with its first strike on the surface after passing either first or third base. A ball can course through air in foul territory and if it lands in fair territory, then it is in play. Look it up.

 

[Paulie]

You guys are both wrong.

A ground ball in this particular case, would denote the ball hitting the ground before passing first or third base. The ball can literally bounce back and forth foul and fair a million times, but it's what territory the ball was in as it passed the base that matters.

Beyond the base means NOTHING. The ball could bound directly over the bag and then slice foul landing over the line, and the only thing that mattered was that it passed the bag in fair territory.

You guys are arguing this situation on emotion rather than just reading the ******* rule.

I knew damn right well you'd come in here arguing about it without just reading it for yourself.

Baseball Rules Fair and Foul Balls

INFIELD GROUND BALLS

Ground balls that bound between home and first, or home and third are a little tricky. The ball is not ruled fair or foul, until the ball comes to a stop, is touched by a fielder, or goes past first or third base.

The ball may zig-zag, back-and-forth, between fair and foul ground an unlimited number of times. The ruling of fair or foul is not made until the ball finally comes to a stop, or is touched, or goes past first or third base.

THE ACTUAL RULE from the rule book

A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to the outfield past first or third base, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair territory touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes out of the playing field in flight.

A fair fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the fielder is on fair or foul territory at the time he touches the ball. If a fly ball lands in the infield between home and first base, or home and third base, and then bounces to foul territory without touching a player or umpire and before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball; or if the ball settles on foul territory or is touched by a player on foul territory, it is a foul ball. If a fly ball lands on or beyond first or third base and then bounces to foul territory, it is a fair hit.

The rule merely mentions the ball passing the base. It says NOTHING about where the ball hits after it passes the base, only where it was as it passed it.

The only time it matters where the ball hits AFTER the base is on a fly ball, or line drive, or any batted ball that has not hit the ground before passing the bag.

The key part of the rule is the bag.

 

[Paulie]

Flatly wrong. Where the ball ends up with its first strike on the surface after passing either first or third base. A ball can course through air in foul territory and if it lands in fair territory, then it is in play. Look it up.

This is not the rule for a ground ball, that is how a fly ball is judged. Two completely different rules.

Not for nothing, but I think the ump made a bad call. I see the ball hit fair after the bag, and even though that is irrelevant based on the rule, it tells me that the ball must have been in fair territory as it passed third base, because it hit fair on its bounce before passing it as well. So it must have been over the bag as it was in the air passing it.

 

[Nosmo King]

The Pittsburgh Pirates are about to endure their 18th consecutive losing season. I'm going to the Mets game Friday. The Pirates have currently lost 79 games this season and won their 40th game last night. I may be at the game that extends history! No professional franchise has ever had 17 straight losing season. I could be there when the Pirates lose their 81 game and extend that dubious record to 18 seasons.

Why, in such a great sports town like Pittsburgh, must we suffer with incompetent, stingy ownership?

 

[Truthspeaker]

You guys are both wrong.

A ground ball in this particular case, would denote the ball hitting the ground before passing first or third base. The ball can literally bounce back and forth foul and fair a million times, but it's what territory the ball was in as it passed the base that matters.

Beyond the base means NOTHING. The ball could bound directly over the bag and then slice foul landing over the line, and the only thing that mattered was that it passed the bag in fair territory.

You guys are arguing this situation on emotion rather than just reading the ******* rule.

I knew damn right well you'd come in here arguing about it without just reading it for yourself.

Baseball Rules Fair and Foul Balls

INFIELD GROUND BALLS

Ground balls that bound between home and first, or home and third are a little tricky. The ball is not ruled fair or foul, until the ball comes to a stop, is touched by a fielder, or goes past first or third base.

The ball may zig-zag, back-and-forth, between fair and foul ground an unlimited number of times. The ruling of fair or foul is not made until the ball finally comes to a stop, or is touched, or goes past first or third base.

THE ACTUAL RULE from the rule book

A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to the outfield past first or third base, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair territory touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes out of the playing field in flight.

A fair fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the fielder is on fair or foul territory at the time he touches the ball. If a fly ball lands in the infield between home and first base, or home and third base, and then bounces to foul territory without touching a player or umpire and before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball; or if the ball settles on foul territory or is touched by a player on foul territory, it is a foul ball. If a fly ball lands on or beyond first or third base and then bounces to foul territory, it is a fair hit.

The rule merely mentions the ball passing the base. It says NOTHING about where the ball hits after it passes the base, only where it was as it passed it.

The only time it matters where the ball hits AFTER the base is on a fly ball, or line drive, or any batted ball that has not hit the ground before passing the bag.

The key part of the rule is the bag.

I think you're abusing the letter of the Law because you're a Phillies Phan. Everyone in the country knows it was a clearly blown call but you. What is clear here is that the letter of the law did not include a provision for balls that come back fair mid air like the one hit in this case.

The rule makers had never seen a ball like this hit before which clearly deserves a fair call so they didn't make a provision for it. But common sense tells us all that it is a fair ball.

Anyway, the umps owe us two games against you guys in this series so let's get it on Paulie Phanatic.

 

[Truthspeaker]

The Pittsburgh Pirates are about to endure their 18th consecutive losing season. I'm going to the Mets game Friday. The Pirates have currently lost 79 games this season and won their 40th game last night. I may be at the game that extends history! No professional franchise has ever had 17 straight losing season. I could be there when the Pirates lose their 81 game and extend that dubious record to 18 seasons.

Why, in such a great sports town like Pittsburgh, must we suffer with incompetent, stingy ownership?

I really have no answer for you, you poor poor Pirates fan. Perhaps you could enlighten all of us as to why your organization has been a model in futility for nearly 2 decades.

 

[Paulie]

You guys are both wrong.

A ground ball in this particular case, would denote the ball hitting the ground before passing first or third base. The ball can literally bounce back and forth foul and fair a million times, but it's what territory the ball was in as it passed the base that matters.

Beyond the base means NOTHING. The ball could bound directly over the bag and then slice foul landing over the line, and the only thing that mattered was that it passed the bag in fair territory.

You guys are arguing this situation on emotion rather than just reading the ******* rule.

I knew damn right well you'd come in here arguing about it without just reading it for yourself.

Baseball Rules Fair and Foul Balls

INFIELD GROUND BALLS

Ground balls that bound between home and first, or home and third are a little tricky. The ball is not ruled fair or foul, until the ball comes to a stop, is touched by a fielder, or goes past first or third base.

The ball may zig-zag, back-and-forth, between fair and foul ground an unlimited number of times. The ruling of fair or foul is not made until the ball finally comes to a stop, or is touched, or goes past first or third base.

THE ACTUAL RULE from the rule book

A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to the outfield past first or third base, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair territory touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes out of the playing field in flight.

A fair fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the fielder is on fair or foul territory at the time he touches the ball. If a fly ball lands in the infield between home and first base, or home and third base, and then bounces to foul territory without touching a player or umpire and before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball; or if the ball settles on foul territory or is touched by a player on foul territory, it is a foul ball. If a fly ball lands on or beyond first or third base and then bounces to foul territory, it is a fair hit.

The rule merely mentions the ball passing the base. It says NOTHING about where the ball hits after it passes the base, only where it was as it passed it.

The only time it matters where the ball hits AFTER the base is on a fly ball, or line drive, or any batted ball that has not hit the ground before passing the bag.

The key part of the rule is the bag.

I think you're abusing the letter of the Law because you're a Phillies Phan. Everyone in the country knows it was a clearly blown call but you. What is clear here is that the letter of the law did not include a provision for balls that come back fair mid air like the one hit in this case.

The rule makers had never seen a ball like this hit before which clearly deserves a fair call so they didn't make a provision for it. But common sense tells us all that it is a fair ball.

Anyway, the umps owe us two games against you guys in this series so let's get it on Paulie Phanatic.

I said more than once here that he blew the call.

That doesn't change the fact that the rule for a ground ball is where the ball is in relation to the bag as it passes it. Where it lands is irrelevant.

I give you the rule and you still deny it, because you 'lost 2 games' or whatever. That's pretty stupid, my man.

Let me give you 2 illustrations showing you why you're wrong...

In this image, you can see that the batted ball bounces first in fair territory, goes past third base in fair territory, and then makes its next bounce in foul territory. That ball is a FAIR BALL. Where it landed made no difference, because it passed third base in FAIR TERRITORY.

Now let's look at the next image...

Here, the batted ball bounces first in fair territory as well, and proceeds past third base while in foul territory, and makes its next bounce in foul territory. That is a FOUL BALL, because it passed third base in foul territory.

In neither of those scenarios did it matter that the ball landed in foul territory.

You don't seem to understand the rule.

 

[Paulie]

Now here's the scenario that happened in the Phils/Marlins game, according to what the ump claims he saw..

The ball bounced first in fair territory, and then wrapped its way around third base in foul territory, before making it's next bounce in fair territory again.

Assuming that was actually what the ball did, which I doubt it, that would be a FOUL BALL, because it passed third while in foul territory. It doesn't matter in that case that it ended up bouncing again in fair territory, because the ruling was made as it passed the bag.

An ump doesn't need to look beyond the bag when ruling on a ground ball. They NEVER have, so I'm not sure why you seem to think so now.

 

[Nosmo King]

The Pittsburgh Pirates are about to endure their 18th consecutive losing season. I'm going to the Mets game Friday. The Pirates have currently lost 79 games this season and won their 40th game last night. I may be at the game that extends history! No professional franchise has ever had 17 straight losing season. I could be there when the Pirates lose their 81 game and extend that dubious record to 18 seasons.

Why, in such a great sports town like Pittsburgh, must we suffer with incompetent, stingy ownership?

I really have no answer for you, you poor poor Pirates fan. Perhaps you could enlighten all of us as to why your organization has been a model in futility for nearly 2 decades.

Four words: free agency, stingy ownership.

Xavier Nady, Jason Bay, Nate McClouth. All left in their option year. The ownership built a beautiful ballpark here, arguably the prettiest park in the majors. The ownership throws in all the bells and whistles (Pittsburghers LOVE fireworks) with give-a-ways and promotions.

They simply won't pay for talented ball players.

It all started in 1993 with the loss of Bobby Bonilla, Barry Bonds and Andy VanSlyke. It's been a nightmare ever since. Believe it or not, I have gone from vital young man to middle aged crank by simply following the demise of my Pittsburgh Pirates since the first year of the Clinton administration.

 

[Paulie]

The Pittsburgh Pirates are about to endure their 18th consecutive losing season. I'm going to the Mets game Friday. The Pirates have currently lost 79 games this season and won their 40th game last night. I may be at the game that extends history! No professional franchise has ever had 17 straight losing season. I could be there when the Pirates lose their 81 game and extend that dubious record to 18 seasons.

Why, in such a great sports town like Pittsburgh, must we suffer with incompetent, stingy ownership?

I really have no answer for you, you poor poor Pirates fan. Perhaps you could enlighten all of us as to why your organization has been a model in futility for nearly 2 decades.

Four words: free agency, stingy ownership.

Xavier Nady, Jason Bay, Nate McClouth. All left in their option year. The ownership built a beautiful ballpark here, arguably the prettiest park in the majors. The ownership throws in all the bells and whistles (Pittsburghers LOVE fireworks) with give-a-ways and promotions.

They simply won't pay for talented ball players.

It all started in 1993 with the loss of Bobby Bonilla, Barry Bonds and Andy VanSlyke. It's been a nightmare ever since. Believe it or not, I have gone from vital young man to middle aged crank by simply following the demise of my Pittsburgh Pirates since the first year of the Clinton administration.

Your salary base is right around what you receive in revenue sharing ALONE.

That's pathetic.