Ocean Temps Dropping

[westwall]

Contrary to the alarmists claims that the oceans are warming the Argo temp bouys show a drop from 2003-2008. The peer reviewed article appeared in the International Journal of Geosciences 2010 Volumne 1 No.3.

http://www.pas.rochester.edu/~douglass/papers/KD_InPress_final.pdf

 

[anuthervoice]

it's true,
we attempt to swim at Padre Beach........too cold!
we venture to San Diego................too cold!
La Jolya (sp?) ........too cold!
I'm thinking mini-iceage again, like we had in the seventies.

 

[ScienceRocks]

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, Walleyes, this is from the Argo site.

Global Change Analysis

Ocean temperature and heat content
Over the past 50 years, the oceans have absorbed more than 80% of the total heat added to the air/sea/land/cyrosphere climate system (Levitus et al, 2005). As the dominant reservoir for heat, the oceans are critical for measuring the radiation imbalance of the planet and the surface layer of the oceans plays the role of thermostat and heat source/sink for the lower atmosphere.

Domingues et al (2008) and Levitus et al (2009) have recently estimated the multi-decadal upper ocean heat content using best-known corrections to systematic errors in the fall rate of expendable bathythermographs (Wijffels et al, 2008). For the upper 700m, the increase in heat content was 16 x 1022 J since 1961. This is consistent with the comparison by Roemmich and Gilson (2009) of Argo data with the global temperature time-series of Levitus et al (2005), finding a warming of the 0 - 2000 m ocean by 0.06°C since the (pre-XBT) early 1960's.

And if you go to the site, right below this paragraph is a graph showing the rapid increase in heat in the oceans.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Rocks, in my graph up to 2006 it shows a raise, but within the graph in your post it shows it raising at a much decreased rate. WHY? Should it not be increasing.

 

[Old Rocks]

Have to ask the Argo scientists. I have not kept up with that aspect of the measuring of the oceans.

 

[Old Rocks]

Argo - part of the integrated global observation strategy

Why do we need Argo?

We are increasingly concerned about global change and its regional impacts. Sea level is rising at an accelerating rate of 3 mm/year, Arctic sea ice cover is shrinking and high latitude areas are warming rapidly. Extreme weather events cause loss of life and enormous burdens on the insurance industry. Globally, 8 of the 10 warmest years since 1860, when instrumental records began, were in the past decade.
These effects are caused by a mixture of long-term climate change and natural variability. Their impacts are in some cases beneficial (lengthened growing seasons, opening of Arctic shipping routes) and in others adverse (increased coastal flooding, severe droughts, more extreme and frequent heat waves and weather events such as severe tropical cyclones).

Understanding (and eventually predicting) changes in both the atmosphere and ocean are needed to guide international actions, to optimize governments’ policies and to shape industrial strategies. To make those predictions we need improved models of climate and of the entire earth system (including socio-economic factors).

 

[skookerasbil]

Well, Walleyes, this is from the Argo site.

Global Change Analysis

Ocean temperature and heat content
Over the past 50 years, the oceans have absorbed more than 80% of the total heat added to the air/sea/land/cyrosphere climate system (Levitus et al, 2005). As the dominant reservoir for heat, the oceans are critical for measuring the radiation imbalance of the planet and the surface layer of the oceans plays the role of thermostat and heat source/sink for the lower atmosphere.

Domingues et al (2008) and Levitus et al (2009) have recently estimated the multi-decadal upper ocean heat content using best-known corrections to systematic errors in the fall rate of expendable bathythermographs (Wijffels et al, 2008). For the upper 700m, the increase in heat content was 16 x 1022 J since 1961. This is consistent with the comparison by Roemmich and Gilson (2009) of Argo data with the global temperature time-series of Levitus et al (2005), finding a warming of the 0 - 2000 m ocean by 0.06°C since the (pre-XBT) early 1960's.

And if you go to the site, right below this paragraph is a graph showing the rapid increase in heat in the oceans.

Faither data..................its always going to be out there West........

 

[westwall]

Well, Walleyes, this is from the Argo site.

Global Change Analysis

Ocean temperature and heat content
Over the past 50 years, the oceans have absorbed more than 80% of the total heat added to the air/sea/land/cyrosphere climate system (Levitus et al, 2005). As the dominant reservoir for heat, the oceans are critical for measuring the radiation imbalance of the planet and the surface layer of the oceans plays the role of thermostat and heat source/sink for the lower atmosphere.

Domingues et al (2008) and Levitus et al (2009) have recently estimated the multi-decadal upper ocean heat content using best-known corrections to systematic errors in the fall rate of expendable bathythermographs (Wijffels et al, 2008). For the upper 700m, the increase in heat content was 16 x 1022 J since 1961. This is consistent with the comparison by Roemmich and Gilson (2009) of Argo data with the global temperature time-series of Levitus et al (2005), finding a warming of the 0 - 2000 m ocean by 0.06°C since the (pre-XBT) early 1960's.

And if you go to the site, right below this paragraph is a graph showing the rapid increase in heat in the oceans.

Faither data..................its always going to be out there West........

Oh I know. olfraud data is sometimes good, most times crap.

 

[mdn2000]

Seems if all the CO2 was retaining the heat in the atmosphere the Oceans would get colder.

Of course heat rises and CO2 is heavier than air so CO2 sinks. So if CO2 is heated up and is sinking is Old Crock saying heated CO2 sinks? Does the heat rise out of CO2 or does it just stay hot heating the Ocean.

Seems like a lot of unanswered questions.

 

[zzzz]

What do you expect with all the ice melting and that cold water mixing with the oceans. The salinity of the oceans shoulf be decreasing too, at least a little. Of course with less ice to reflect the suns rays this could balance the coldness of the water, except that the cold water sinks.

 

[westwall]

What do you expect with all the ice melting and that cold water mixing with the oceans. The salinity of the oceans shoulf be decreasing too, at least a little. Of course with less ice to reflect the suns rays this could balance the coldness of the water, except that the cold water sinks.

Actually the salinity of the oceans is allways increasing as runoff from the continents carries disolved salts from the rock into the seas.

 

[ScienceRocks]

If this is true and the oceans are not warming then it does in fact harm the predictions from the ipcc...Why, because energy should be increasing and compounding within our oceans at a ever increasing rate if the planet is warming and staying in line with the green house theory. Right? Oceans cover most of the planet, so they sure as heck better be warming if we are seeing increase warming.

If this is shown to be true then it is damaging.

 

[uscitizen]

Argo float deployment began in 2000 I think.

 

[westwall]

If this is true and the oceans are not warming then it does in fact harm the predictions from the ipcc...Why, because energy should be increasing and compounding within our oceans at a ever increasing rate if the planet is warming and staying in line with the green house theory. Right? Oceans cover most of the planet, so they sure as heck better be warming if we are seeing increase warming.

If this is shown to be true then it is damaging.

One other thing to consider Matthew is the long wave radiation from the supposed CO2 backscattering would penetrate microns into the oceans. On the other hand new data from the solar folks show that the UV output of the sun has been higher than the visible spectrum and UV penetrates a few meters deep. That actually will warm the oceans. IR does not as it is far too shallow.

 

[zzzz]

What do you expect with all the ice melting and that cold water mixing with the oceans. The salinity of the oceans shoulf be decreasing too, at least a little. Of course with less ice to reflect the suns rays this could balance the coldness of the water, except that the cold water sinks.

Actually the salinity of the oceans is allways increasing as runoff from the continents carries disolved salts from the rock into the seas.

Not necassarily. However my comment that cold water sinks is true but fresh water floats on salt water until it mixes.

The weathering of rocks delivers minerals, including salt, into the ocean. Evaporation of ocean water and formation of sea ice both increase the salinity of the ocean. However these "salinity raising" factors are continually counterbalanced by processes that decrease salinity such as the continuous input of fresh water from rivers, precipitation of rain and snow, and melting of ice.
...
At high latitudes, melting sea ice, increased precipitation, and/or river inputs will also make ocean surface water less salty. This density change could disrupt thermohaline circulation, which could restrict the ocean-atmosphere heat pump that normally warms the atmosphere, leading to possible dramatic changes in climate

Salinity - NASA Science

 

[westwall]

What do you expect with all the ice melting and that cold water mixing with the oceans. The salinity of the oceans shoulf be decreasing too, at least a little. Of course with less ice to reflect the suns rays this could balance the coldness of the water, except that the cold water sinks.

Actually the salinity of the oceans is allways increasing as runoff from the continents carries disolved salts from the rock into the seas.

Not necassarily. However my comment that cold water sinks is true but fresh water floats on salt water until it mixes.

The weathering of rocks delivers minerals, including salt, into the ocean. Evaporation of ocean water and formation of sea ice both increase the salinity of the ocean. However these "salinity raising" factors are continually counterbalanced by processes that decrease salinity such as the continuous input of fresh water from rivers, precipitation of rain and snow, and melting of ice.
...
At high latitudes, melting sea ice, increased precipitation, and/or river inputs will also make ocean surface water less salty. This density change could disrupt thermohaline circulation, which could restrict the ocean-atmosphere heat pump that normally warms the atmosphere, leading to possible dramatic changes in climate

Salinity - NASA Science

The overall salinity of the ocean is allways increasing. NASA is describing localised events.

 

[IanC]

westy- so why do all of the true believers graphs go up when the ARGO data seem to go down? or at the very least stay flat?

thats the crazy thing about global warming, both sides take the same data and get different results. but by all means lets spend trillions of dollars and put our economy into the trashbin. NOT!

 

[westwall]

westy- so why do all of the true believers graphs go up when the ARGO data seem to go down? or at the very least stay flat?

thats the crazy thing about global warming, both sides take the same data and get different results. but by all means lets spend trillions of dollars and put our economy into the trashbin. NOT!

One side is using raw data. The other side is using data that has been processed through various statistical algorithms. In other words it's been "massaged". They do the same with ARGO as GISS is doing with the weather station data.

 

[Old Rocks]

westy- so why do all of the true believers graphs go up when the ARGO data seem to go down? or at the very least stay flat?

thats the crazy thing about global warming, both sides take the same data and get different results. but by all means lets spend trillions of dollars and put our economy into the trashbin. NOT!

Ian, playing dumbass again? I posted links to the Argo site, and there site has the temps going up. Again, this is from the Argo site, and right below the paragraph is a graph showing the very steep upward slope of ocean temperture.
Global Change Analysis

Ocean temperature and heat content
Over the past 50 years, the oceans have absorbed more than 80% of the total heat added to the air/sea/land/cyrosphere climate system (Levitus et al, 2005). As the dominant reservoir for heat, the oceans are critical for measuring the radiation imbalance of the planet and the surface layer of the oceans plays the role of thermostat and heat source/sink for the lower atmosphere.

Domingues et al (2008) and Levitus et al (2009) have recently estimated the multi-decadal upper ocean heat content using best-known corrections to systematic errors in the fall rate of expendable bathythermographs (Wijffels et al, 2008). For the upper 700m, the increase in heat content was 16 x 1022 J since 1961. This is consistent with the comparison by Roemmich and Gilson (2009) of Argo data with the global temperature time-series of Levitus et al (2005), finding a warming of the 0 - 2000 m ocean by 0.06°C since the (pre-XBT) early 1960's.