Occupy Wall Street: The Movement Grows

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

My issue is that people are calling it grassroots when big unions like SEIU have been planning this for months, groups funded by liberal millionaires and billionaires have also been preparing for it, and then people are calling it grassroots.....thats my true issue

You are mistaken about this. SEIU got involved only recently, and while many people on the left have been calling for, and trying to promote, some kind of popular dissent for a long time, it's a mistake to think they made it all happen.

I think a lot of conservatives don't understand this because (naturally enough) they don't participate in or monitor left-wing blog and on-line networking activity. (I mean, why would you?) I do, and I saw this building for a long time. There has been a growing desire for progressive reform ever since roughly the turn of the century, as the Millennial generation started coming of age.

It was there, on-line, in 2008, but it got diverted into electoral politics. The energy that is now going into the protests went instead into getting Obama elected. Naively, young activists thought that would be enough. But Obama has proved a disappointment: he campaigned as a progressive, but he's governed as a corporate Democrat. So, after a certain amount of fuming and venting at being betrayed, the energy now is going into protests, because it's clear that the Democrats will not do what they're supposed to do unless pushed.

Organizations like the SEIU and professional activists like Van Jones are quick to jump on the bandwagon, but they didn't start this. It grew from on-line discussions and networking, mostly among young people, that have been going on for years.

This isn't going away, either. It will continue to grow as long as this generation continues to come of age, which means roughly for another 15-20 years.

SEIU plans days of rage against Wall Street

Exposed: Globalist Illuminati New World Order Agenda: George Soros, ACORN, SEIU Are Behind Occupy Wall Street

 

[Dragon]

You know perfectly well that those "grievances", cannot be rectified within the framework of the constitution.

I know nothing of the sort, and neither do you. Let's look once more at the listed grievances, and I'll suggest some solutions.

"They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage."

Solution: debt relief for mortgagees, and regulations on the mortgage industry to make foreclosure more difficult.

"They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses."

Solution: regulations on the banking industry such as Glass-Steagal provided, which would prevent a recurrence.

"They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation."

Solution: enforcement of anti-discrimination laws already on the books.

"They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization."

Solution: increased food inspection, and vigorous enforcement of anti-trust laws w/r/t agriculture.

"They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices."

Solution: legislation requiring humane treatment of farm animals.

"They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions."

Solution: strict enforcement of labor law and protection of employees' right to organize and bargain collectively.

"They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right."

Solution: increased public funding of higher education to reduce the cost to students and their families.

"They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay."

I actually think enforcement of labor law would suffice for this, but others might call for selective tariffs to discourage outsourcing.

"They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility."

Solution: appoint new Supreme Court and lower court judges who will reverse these abominable rulings.

"They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance."

Best solution: a single-payer health system that will cut aclross all of that bullshit once and for all.

"They have sold our privacy as a commodity."

Solution: laws and enforcement of laws protecting privacy more aggressively.

"They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press."

[Hmm. Okay, I actually don't know what this means. But if it's happening, the solution is simply for the government to stop doing that.]

"They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit."

Solution: enforcement of laws protecting the rights of consumers.

"They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce. They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them. They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil. They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit."

Solution: campaign-finance reform to remove the corruption from politics.

"They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit."

Solution: strict enforcement of existing laws and regulations designed to prevent such things, and amending of laws and regulations where needed.

"They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media."

Solution: growth and development of alternative new media to supplant the dinosaurs. (We're already doing that one.)

"They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt."

Solution: abandon capital punishment.

"They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas. They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts."

Solution: end the American empire and bring our troops home.

Now, you may or may not agree that these are problems, and even if you do you may or may not agree with the solutions I've suggested, but the fact remains that NONE of them are unconstitutional.

 

[Dragon]

SEIU plans days of rage against Wall Street

Exposed: Globalist Illuminati New World Order Agenda: George Soros, ACORN, SEIU Are Behind Occupy Wall Street

In your own words, what do you think this proves?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

SEIU plans days of rage against Wall Street

Exposed: Globalist Illuminati New World Order Agenda: George Soros, ACORN, SEIU Are Behind Occupy Wall Street

In your own words, what do you think this proves?

That this movement wasn't spontanious and has had support from large organizations, which is fine and I dont have a problem with that. My problem is people claiming otherwise.

 

[mudwhistle]

SEIU just recently got involved?

That explains why it turned violent.

What do you mean, turned violent? Do you have any evidence to back this up?

SEIU is Obama's crew. What the **** is he doing trying to destroy privat property on Wall Street????

SEIU is a labor union, it is not "Obama's crew," and Obama himself has not yet embraced the movement (nor vice-versa). I think you are confused as to where the connections are actually drawn.

A few of the more progressive Democrats in Congress, including Nancy Pelosi, have come out in support of OWS; Obama, not yet.

Ha ha ha police had to beat back union thugs that tried to storm the barracades a couple of days ago.

Obama came out in support of the occupation yesterday and Biden followed suit.

Where the **** have you been???

SEIU is ACORN. Andy Stern, Obama's labor czar was the President of SEIU until he took the job at the White House.

 

[Dragon]

That this movement wasn't spontanious and has had support from large organizations, which is fine and I dont have a problem with that. My problem is people claiming otherwise.

So how is it that you think those links proves this? And what exactly do you mean? Do you mean that all of the thousands of protesters involved with OWS take their marching orders from SEIU? Or from George Soros, or whoever?

Do you think that it's possible for a movement arising elsewhere, from grass-roots sources, to obtain support from like-minded organizations after it has arisen? Do you think that it's possible for one or more of those like-minded organizations to express a desire for something like this to happen before it does, and for the movement itself nonetheless to have originated independently of the organization?

What I'm getting at is this. You are not going to find it difficult to find liberal groups and individuals who expressed a desire for some kind of public protest or demonstration going back years and years. By itself, though, that proves nothing. What you need to show -- and I don't think you can, because it isn't true -- is that OWS would not exist except for this support, or that the planning and organization for OWS are coming from SEIU or Soros or whoever.

Are you aware of the internal organization of OWS? Do you know about the New York City General Assembly? Here's their web site: NYC General Assembly | The Official Website of the GA at #OccupyWallStreet

You are making very strong claims for which there is really no evidence at all.

 

[Mr. Jones]

Ha ha ha

Obama came out in support of the occupation yesterday.

Where the **** have you been???

SEIU is ACORN. Andy Stern, Obama's labor czar was the President of SEIU until he took the job at the White House.

Dear President *****

You campaigned on that same platform of banking reform, Wall Street Regulation, and populist anger at the economy.

You also promised to end the wars.

In three years you have not kept any of those promises. The wars have expanded, Wall Street still loots the public with impunity, you have personally increased government debt by more than all your predecessors put together, and manufacturing is still fleeing the nation due to government tax incentives.

So now you have the chutzpah to stand up there and act like all of a sudden after three years you suddenly noticed the American people are frustrated?

Don't be such a moron! We are frustrated with you and every DC money-junkie like you who views the capitol building as a giant whorehouse where they can sell out to the biggest pimps on the land!

Please do not insult our intelligence by acting like you give a damn. If you did, you would have slapped Israel up side of the head and started shredding checks after they murdered an American in international waters last year!

Get out of OUR White House. You are a total failure and we are not going to buy your bullshit a second time.-M Rivero

 

[Dragon]

Obama came out in support of the occupation yesterday.

No, he didn't. I saw that press conference. He was carefully neutral about it, and spoke in support only of his own policies, and did not acknowledge that OWS wants a good deal more from him than that, which it does. The movement is considerably more progressive than he is. He will have come out in support of it when he adopts more progressive positions himself. Right now, he's just trying to capitalize on it politically, which is hardly the same thing as supporting it.

Edit: Thank you, Mr. Jones. That is exactly the attitude of OWS towards President Obama at this point in time.

SEIU is ACORN.

LOL. SEIU is the Service Employees International Union. Here: SEIU - Service Employees International Union

It has nothing to do with ACORN.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

That this movement wasn't spontanious and has had support from large organizations, which is fine and I dont have a problem with that. My problem is people claiming otherwise.

So how is it that you think those links proves this? And what exactly do you mean? Do you mean that all of the thousands of protesters involved with OWS take their marching orders from SEIU? Or from George Soros, or whoever?

Do you think that it's possible for a movement arising elsewhere, from grass-roots sources, to obtain support from like-minded organizations after it has arisen? Do you think that it's possible for one or more of those like-minded organizations to express a desire for something like this to happen before it does, and for the movement itself nonetheless to have originated independently of the organization?

What I'm getting at is this. You are not going to find it difficult to find liberal groups and individuals who expressed a desire for some kind of public protest or demonstration going back years and years. By itself, though, that proves nothing. What you need to show -- and I don't think you can, because it isn't true -- is that OWS would not exist except for this support, or that the planning and organization for OWS are coming from SEIU or Soros or whoever.

Are you aware of the internal organization of OWS? Do you know about the New York City General Assembly? Here's their web site: NYC General Assembly | The Official Website of the GA at #OccupyWallStreet

You are making very strong claims for which there is really no evidence at all.

No I mean that those groups had planned to do this all along and used facebook/twitter to get the word out.

The people went, on their own, as a result of learning about it from the organizations setting it up.

 

[Dragon]

No I mean that those groups had planned to do this all along and used facebook/twitter to get the word out.

The people went, on their own, as a result of learning about it from the organizations setting it up.

No, that isn't true, either. It's true that Facebook and Twitter were used to generate the protests and are still being used to coordinate them, but most of that activity was done by people unaffiliated with the groups you are talking about.

The Millennial generation (currently age 6-29) is strongly left-leaning compared to older generations. It is also highly organized and more Internet and new-media savvy than older generations. Put those features together and you have all the explanation you need. Young people have spontaneously created a huge, broad-reaching network of liberal activism of one kind or another on social media and on blog and discussion sites.

There is really nothing top-down about any of this. It's very much bottom-up. Now that the unions are becoming involved and some of the more progressive Democratic politicians, there will surely be attempts made to co-opt it, but co-option is exactly what it is. These groups and individuals did not start it.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

No I mean that those groups had planned to do this all along and used facebook/twitter to get the word out.

The people went, on their own, as a result of learning about it from the organizations setting it up.

No, that isn't true, either. It's true that Facebook and Twitter were used to generate the protests and are still being used to coordinate them, but most of that activity was done by people unaffiliated with the groups you are talking about.

The Millennial generation (currently age 6-29) is strongly left-leaning compared to older generations. It is also highly organized and more Internet and new-media savvy than older generations. Put those features together and you have all the explanation you need. Young people have spontaneously created a huge, broad-reaching network of liberal activism of one kind or another on social media and on blog and discussion sites.

There is really nothing top-down about any of this. It's very much bottom-up. Now that the unions are becoming involved and some of the more progressive Democratic politicians, there will surely be attempts made to co-opt it, but co-option is exactly what it is. These groups and individuals did not start it.

I disagree. I think it was the plethora of left leaning groups that did get the word out on facebook/twitter and that others liked the idea and followed along.

 

[mudwhistle]

You know perfectly well that those "grievances", cannot be rectified within the framework of the constitution.

I know nothing of the sort, and neither do you. Let's look once more at the listed grievances, and I'll suggest some solutions.

"They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage."

Solution: debt relief for mortgagees, and regulations on the mortgage industry to make foreclosure more difficult.

"They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses."

Solution: regulations on the banking industry such as Glass-Steagal provided, which would prevent a recurrence.

"They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation."

Solution: enforcement of anti-discrimination laws already on the books.

"They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization."

Solution: increased food inspection, and vigorous enforcement of anti-trust laws w/r/t agriculture.

"They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices."

Solution: legislation requiring humane treatment of farm animals.

"They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions."

Solution: strict enforcement of labor law and protection of employees' right to organize and bargain collectively.

"They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right."

Solution: increased public funding of higher education to reduce the cost to students and their families.

"They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay."

I actually think enforcement of labor law would suffice for this, but others might call for selective tariffs to discourage outsourcing.

"They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility."

Solution: appoint new Supreme Court and lower court judges who will reverse these abominable rulings.

"They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance."

Best solution: a single-payer health system that will cut aclross all of that bullshit once and for all.

"They have sold our privacy as a commodity."

Solution: laws and enforcement of laws protecting privacy more aggressively.

"They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press."

[Hmm. Okay, I actually don't know what this means. But if it's happening, the solution is simply for the government to stop doing that.]

"They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit."

Solution: enforcement of laws protecting the rights of consumers.

"They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce. They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them. They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil. They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit."

Solution: campaign-finance reform to remove the corruption from politics.

"They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit."

Solution: strict enforcement of existing laws and regulations designed to prevent such things, and amending of laws and regulations where needed.

"They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media."

Solution: growth and development of alternative new media to supplant the dinosaurs. (We're already doing that one.)

"They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt."

Solution: abandon capital punishment.

"They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas. They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts."

Solution: end the American empire and bring our troops home.

Now, you may or may not agree that these are problems, and even if you do you may or may not agree with the solutions I've suggested, but the fact remains that NONE of them are unconstitutional.

You are one long-winded ******.

Every one of these issues originated with a media blitz.

Some were real, some made up.

The stories were only intended to allow Democrats to impose tighter regulations with the expressed purpose of asserting control and raising operating overheads which are always passed onto the consumer. This causes anger and frustration. Under this climate class-warfare becomes extremely effective.

Fancy that.

My how convenient for Obama.

 

[Dragon]

I disagree. I think it was the plethora of left leaning groups that did get the word out on facebook/twitter and that others liked the idea and followed along.

Well, all I can tell you is that I was there and you were not. I'm telling you, as an eyewitness, that you are wrong.

 

[Dragon]

Every one of these issues originated with a media blitz.

Some were real, some made up.

The stories were only intended to allow Democrats to impose tighter regulations with the expressed purpose of asserting control and raising operating overheads which are always passed onto the consumer. This causes anger and frustration. Under this climate class-warfare becomes extremely effective.

Fancy that.

My how convenient for Obama.

What the hell are you talking about?

Look, the question isn't whether you agree with any of this; I imagine most right-wingers won't. The original assertion, though, is that solutions to these problems would destroy the Constitution. I've pointed out, in detail, that that is nonsense.

Are you going to acknowledge that this isn't a campaign to destroy the Constitution? Or are you going to insist that it is, and try to present some evidence in favor of that cockeyed idea? Or are you going to just spout silliness? The choice is yours.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You know perfectly well that those "grievances", cannot be rectified within the framework of the constitution.

I know nothing of the sort, and neither do you. Let's look once more at the listed grievances, and I'll suggest some solutions.

"They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage."

Solution: debt relief for mortgagees, and regulations on the mortgage industry to make foreclosure more difficult.

Result, buying a house becomes impossible for anyone who doesn't have $300,000 cash.

Why would anyone lend you money that you don't have to pay back?

"They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses."

Solution: regulations on the banking industry such as Glass-Steagal provided, which would prevent a recurrence.

"They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation."

Solution: enforcement of anti-discrimination laws already on the books.

No comment

"They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization."

Solution: increased food inspection, and vigorous enforcement of anti-trust laws w/r/t agriculture.

Monopolies have been created by government. Do you treat cuts by gouging yourself with a knife?

"They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices."

Solution: legislation requiring humane treatment of farm animals.

**** PETA. You got a problem, become a vegan.

"They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions."

Solution: strict enforcement of labor law and protection of employees' right to organize and bargain collectively.

**** the unions, they are the biggest part of the problem.

"They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right."

Solution: increased public funding of higher education to reduce the cost to students and their families.

GIMMEE GIMMEE GIMMEE

Why shouldn't YOU have to work for free so that I can have free hamburgers and fries?

"They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay."

Gee, why would they do that? You Marxists are so ******* reasonable....

I actually think enforcement of labor law would suffice for this, but others might call for selective tariffs to discourage outsourcing.

Or better yet, repeal the bullshit EPA regulations and enforce anti-trust laws against SUIE, the AFL/CIO and the Teamsters.

You Marxists LOVE monopolies, as long as they are YOUR monopolies.

"They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility."

Solution: appoint new Supreme Court and lower court judges who will reverse these abominable rulings.

Don't you have to end the constitution to do that...

OOPS, you are the End the Constitution group, sorry...

"They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance."

Best solution: a single-payer health system that will cut aclross all of that bullshit once and for all.

Communism, the one size fits all or we send you to a gulag answer of the "End the Constitution" protestors!

"They have sold our privacy as a commodity."

Solution: laws and enforcement of laws protecting privacy more aggressively.

So you want to outlaw the income tax and the 1040 form? (No greater invasion of privacy exists in this nation.)

"They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press."

[Hmm. Okay, I actually don't know what this means. But if it's happening, the solution is simply for the government to stop doing that.]

I think it means that Fox News hasn't been shut down and the reporters for it haven't been put to death as the "End the Constitution" protest wants.

"They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit."

Solution: enforcement of laws protecting the rights of consumers.

Who has deliberately declined what?

Why are Marxists such pathological liars?

"They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce. They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them. They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil. They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit."

Solution: campaign-finance reform to remove the corruption from politics.

"They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit."

Solution: strict enforcement of existing laws and regulations designed to prevent such things, and amending of laws and regulations where needed.

"They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media."

Solution: growth and development of alternative new media to supplant the dinosaurs. (We're already doing that one.)

"They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt."

Solution: abandon capital punishment.

"They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas. They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts."

Solution: end the American empire and bring our troops home.

Now, you may or may not agree that these are problems, and even if you do you may or may not agree with the solutions I've suggested, but the fact remains that NONE of them are unconstitutional.

Got bored with the idiocy...

 

[California Girl]

She clarified. When she says CR, she means CR, and the "our" means the USA.

Seems pretty clear.

Then I already answered the question. The only way to pull down the constitution and overthrow the government is forcibly. I would not be in favor of doing that, as I said.

No, it isn't. One could use subversion to undermine the Republic.... as in the Cloward/Piven strategy.

So, again.... would you defend the Republic or not?

This is not a hard question... at least, it shouldn't be.

 

[Dragon]

Uncensored:

As I said, the question isn't whether right-wing nut jobs like yourself agree with any of this. The question is whether it would be unconstitutional. That was the original assertion: that OWS is out to destroy the Constitution.

If you still think that this is so, as you've said, then go through that list of proposed solutions and pick out any of them you believe to require abolition of the Constitution. You don't have to talk about all of them. Just one. And it's meaningless to give any reason for not liking it, other than that it violates the Constitution, because that is what you originally said.

 

[Dragon]

No, it isn't. One could use subversion to undermine the Republic.... as in the Cloward/Piven strategy.

The Cloward/Piven plan would not have undermined the Republic nor was that their intention. They wanted to undermine welfare as it existed in 1966, with a view towards pushing the government to replace it with a guaranteed income. Had they accomplished this, the U.S. would have remained a republic and the Constitution would have remained in force. If you regard the creation of a guaranteed income as "undermining the republic," then you are using the word "republic" to mean something it doesn't ordinarily mean. I would add that their plan was not only non-forcible but in fact perfectly legal. (And of course, it also didn't work.)

As I said: the only way to overthrow what is normally meant by the phrase "our constitutional republic," i.e. the U.S. government as established by the Constitution, is by force, either a coup d'etat or a popular revolution. I would not support either of those. And that is the only answer I can give you, until you clarify exactly what YOU mean by the phrase.

 

[Big Fitz]

You know perfectly well that those "grievances", cannot be rectified within the framework of the constitution.

I know nothing of the sort, and neither do you. Let's look once more at the listed grievances, and I'll suggest some solutions.

"They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage."

Solution: debt relief for mortgagees, and regulations on the mortgage industry to make foreclosure more difficult.

"They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses."

Solution: regulations on the banking industry such as Glass-Steagal provided, which would prevent a recurrence.

"They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation."

Solution: enforcement of anti-discrimination laws already on the books.

"They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization."

Solution: increased food inspection, and vigorous enforcement of anti-trust laws w/r/t agriculture.

"They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices."

Solution: legislation requiring humane treatment of farm animals.

"They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions."

Solution: strict enforcement of labor law and protection of employees' right to organize and bargain collectively.

"They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right."

Solution: increased public funding of higher education to reduce the cost to students and their families.

"They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay."

I actually think enforcement of labor law would suffice for this, but others might call for selective tariffs to discourage outsourcing.

"They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility."

Solution: appoint new Supreme Court and lower court judges who will reverse these abominable rulings.

"They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance."

Best solution: a single-payer health system that will cut aclross all of that bullshit once and for all.

"They have sold our privacy as a commodity."

Solution: laws and enforcement of laws protecting privacy more aggressively.

"They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press."

[Hmm. Okay, I actually don't know what this means. But if it's happening, the solution is simply for the government to stop doing that.]

"They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit."

Solution: enforcement of laws protecting the rights of consumers.

"They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce. They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them. They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil. They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit."

Solution: campaign-finance reform to remove the corruption from politics.

"They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit."

Solution: strict enforcement of existing laws and regulations designed to prevent such things, and amending of laws and regulations where needed.

"They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media."

Solution: growth and development of alternative new media to supplant the dinosaurs. (We're already doing that one.)

"They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt."

Solution: abandon capital punishment.

"They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas. They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts."

Solution: end the American empire and bring our troops home.

Now, you may or may not agree that these are problems, and even if you do you may or may not agree with the solutions I've suggested, but the fact remains that NONE of them are unconstitutional.

But no matter what, let's not expect to have any personal responsibility from **** ups we're all going to be forced to support.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Uncensored:

As I said, the question isn't whether right-wing nut jobs like yourself agree with any of this. The question is whether it would be unconstitutional. That was the original assertion: that OWS is out to destroy the Constitution.

No Dragon, that is not the question.

The Federal government invalidating a legally binding contract by interfering with the execution of collateral execution in a secured loan is unconstitutional - no question and no debate.

But if we use the Constitution and Bill of Rights to wipe shit from our cracks as you and the OWS wants, the result will be that no one can every buy a house again. You destroy the finance market that property sales are based upon. On the surface, one might think "these fools don't comprehend the consequence of their actions," but then, Marxists aren't big fans of private property rights so more likely the destruction of the ability to buy and sell property is the end game.

If you still think that this is so, as you've said, then go through that list of proposed solutions and pick out any of them you believe to require abolition of the Constitution.

I already did. The dissolution of property rights requires the end of the constitution Dissolving the seated SCOTUS so that a Marxist court can be established requires revoking the constitution.

You don't have to talk about all of them. Just one. And it's meaningless to give any reason for not liking it, other than that it violates the Constitution, because that is what you originally said.

There are two.