Occupy Wall Street: The Movement Grows

[Oldstyle]

The economic problems we have are the result of confiscatory taxation to support a parasitic class. This has forced companies and jobs out of the country.

Considering that corporate profits are at record highs, and U.S. taxes are low compared to most other advanced democracies, that statement has no foundation in fact.

I believe we currently have the third highest corporate tax rate in the world, Dragon.

 

[Trajan]

The economic problems we have are the result of confiscatory taxation to support a parasitic class. This has forced companies and jobs out of the country.

Considering that corporate profits are at record highs, and U.S. taxes are low compared to most other advanced democracies, that statement has no foundation in fact.

no, I am not sure of that and why make the comparison at all?what does that prove?

and;

Highest corporate tax rate | America | Japan | The Daily Caller

and;

the corp. tax issue create their own problems;

High Corporate Tax Rate Is Misleading - SmartMoney.com

and we are somewhere in the upper tier btw so "most" is not an adequate description;


12 Countries With The Highest & Lowest Tax Rates | Business Pundit

 

[Oldstyle]

Is that because the "real far left" are such moonbats they couldn't get elected?

Not sure "moonbat" is the right term, but it's because they're too extreme, certainly. What else would "far" mean?

And would you admit that the majority of the activists that have been protesting in NYC fit that "too extreme" definition? Because if they're too extreme to get elected to Congress then they are probably too extreme to work at most private sector jobs as well. So you've got people out on the "far" fringes of society calling themselves the 99%? Don't you find that rather disingenuous?

 

[Dragon]

I believe we currently have the third highest corporate tax rate in the world, Dragon.

As stated, that's untrue, and as intended (that our corporations are taxed highly), it is way off:

High Corporate Tax Rate Is Misleading - SmartMoney.com

"You may have heard: U.S. corporations face one of the highest income tax rates in the world, though the mention of "rate" is often enough excised, so that what comes through is the assertion that corporations pay too much in taxes. This is simply untrue if your basis for comparison is the developed world. The truth is that while the 35% corporate income tax rate is high indeed, the creativity and global reach of U.S. corporations make them among the most lightly levied.

"Between 2000 and 2005, U.S. corporate taxes amounted to 2.2% of the GDP. The average for the 30 mostly rich member countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development was 3.4%."

no, I am not sure of that and why make the comparison at all?what does that prove?

It proves that TCL's assertion that high taxes and declining profits were to blame for the decline of the middle class has no basis in fact.

 

[Dragon]

And would you admit that the majority of the activists that have been protesting in NYC fit that "too extreme" definition?

No, absolutely not. The positions of most of the protesters are moderate center-left. This is NOT a far-left movement at all, although a few of the participants probably warrant that label.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The tax system was flattened, so that more of the tax burden falls on the middle class and less on the rich;

So, if Bob makes $10 and Joe makes $1,000

Taking 30% of what Joe makes and 15% of what Bob makes is fair in the Marxists view.

BUT; taking 15% from Joe and 15% from Bob is "unfair" because we shifted the tax burden to Bob.

Using Marxist math, this is obvious. 15% of $10 is $1.50 - 15% of $1,000 is $150. Obviously $1.50 is a lot more than $150 - so Bob has more of a tax burden. Why is this so? Because Marxism looks at Bob being left with $8.50 while Joe is left with $850

NO FAIR!

So Comrade Obama takes everything from both Joe and Bob, gives them each $1.50 and calls it fair!

government policy became less labor-friendly so that obstacles to union formation increased and the power of organized labor declined;

That's odd, considering that government is the only place in the nation that unions are thriving. In any business that needs to turn a profit, Unions are a pariah, as well they should be.

Big-O tires is evil, horrible and wicked. Big-O is non-union and carefully places plants in states that respect constitutional rights. Big-O operates on a system where production employees are paid a base rate plus up to 120% of the base rate depending on capacity of the infrastructure employed. If an extruder can produce 150 feet of rubber an hour, and Raul makes $10 an hour, should he keep it flowing aat 150 feet, he is paid $22 an hour.

Big-O employees average about 35% more pay than do their unionized General Tire counterparts and are on average, 730% more efficient, resulting in lower costs to consumers and more growth for the company and the employees.

Evil company, isn't it?

So do you thin Big-O should be shut down, or should it be shut down and the management put in prison?

the financial industry was deregulated, encouraging investments to go into complicated financial shell games instead of into real production of wealth.

So, no wealth has been created in the last 30 years?

All of this encouraged the accumulation of private wealth while working to suppress real wages, thus driving the increase of income gaps over those thirty years.

So your claim is that a worker, at minimum wage had better wages 30 years ago, in 1981 that he does today?

Pretty cool

So to support this, all you need to do is show;

Number of hours at minimum wage needed to buy;

A TV
An Economy car
A Stereo
Rent a 1 bedroom apartment
Buy a gallon of milk
Buy a gallon of gas

For both 1981 and 2011

I await your analysis eagerly!

 

[Dragon]

Taking 30% of what Joe makes and 15% of what Bob makes is fair

I said nothing about fair. I said that the tax system was flattened and that this contributed to the demise of the middle class.

But in answer to your question, yes, it's fair for the rich to pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than the non-rich.

That's odd, considering that government is the only place in the nation that unions are thriving.

It's not in the least odd, considering that the main change has been to lower enforcement of labor law so that the penalties for illegal firings and other illegal union suppression have become insufficient to deter the practices. Government agencies, unlike private for-profit companies, tend not to engage in these practices, and so public employees unions have become the only ones still strong, still un-suppressed.

In any business that needs to turn a profit, Unions are a pariah, as well they should be.

Quite shortsighted. Strong unions help keep wages high, and so keep the consumer market strong, which boosts sales, which boosts profits. A unionized workforce resulted in a stronger, more prosperous economy.

In fact, running the economy in service to the corporate bottom line is a bad idea, because what benefits one company in competition with others is not necessarily what is going to benefit the economy as a whole.

Your hypothetical example has no real-world counterparts, and is indeed the exact opposite of what normally obtains, and so I am snipping it.

So, no wealth has been created in the last 30 years?

Not nearly as much real wealth as would have been if the system of the 40s-60s had continued.

So your claim is that a worker, at minimum wage had better wages 30 years ago, in 1981 that he does today?

No, I'm not talking about minimum wage workers at all. I'm saying that real wages on the average have declined over the past thirty years:

File:US Real Wages 1964-2004.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although there was something of an uptick in the 1990s, over the past 30 years the trend is for real wages to decline. What's more, this makes the picture look better than it really is, because certain important expenses to a middle-class lifestyle, especially medical insurance and a college education, have soared, as have housing costs. The end result is that most Americans are poorer today than they should be, so that the very rich can maximize their gains.

That is what this protest is all about. The rules need to be rewritten so as to reverse that redistribution of wealth from the non-rich to the rich.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Dragon, you dodged my question.

Number of hours at minimum wage needed to buy;

A TV
An Economy car
A Stereo
Rent a 1 bedroom apartment
Buy a gallon of milk
Buy a gallon of gas

For both 1981 and 2011

I await your analysis eagerly!

Standard Disclaimer: You socialists ALWAYS run from this - for obvious reasons.

 

[The Gadfly]

The economic problems we have are the result of confiscatory taxation to support a parasitic class. This has forced companies and jobs out of the country.

Considering that corporate profits are at record highs, and U.S. taxes are low compared to most other advanced democracies, that statement has no foundation in fact.

While Tipsy is not exactly right.... it is a tad more complicated than s/he has stated....that assessment is closer to accurate than your moronic crap.

And.... we are not a democracy... we are a Republic.

And.... if you do not wish to live by the Constitution that created our Republic, move to a country that suits you. Do not seek to take this one.... it's already taken... and we have guns.

Yes we do, and some of us know how to use them and are quite willing to do so; it's our country, and we intend to keep it....over as many dead bodies as that requires. Remember that, because in the end, it really IS that simple!

 

[Dragon]

Dragon, you dodged my question

As I said, I wasn't talking about minimum-wage workers. Therefore, your question was irrelevant and need not be answered.

 

[Sallow]

This is the country with the most millionaires and billionaires..

We don't have a shortage.

Just sayin'.

 

[WillowTree]

Dragon, you dodged my question

As I said, I wasn't talking about minimum-wage workers. Therefore, your question was irrelevant and need not be answered.

What an asswipe. you need to back out of the conversation.. you deciding what is irrelevant is a bit old. stand your ground or back the hell out.. slowly..

 

[Sallow]

Dragon, you dodged my question.

Number of hours at minimum wage needed to buy;

A TV
An Economy car
A Stereo
Rent a 1 bedroom apartment
Buy a gallon of milk
Buy a gallon of gas

For both 1981 and 2011

I await your analysis eagerly!

Standard Disclaimer: You socialists ALWAYS run from this - for obvious reasons.

In what state? City? Borough? Which Store? Discount? Electronics? What sort of TV? Color? Black and White? Solid State? Tubes?
What sort of car? What make? What model? Foreign? Domestic? Diesel?
What sort of Stereo? What make? What model? Foreign? Domestic?
In what state? Borough? Neighborhood?
In what state? Low Fat? Skim?
In what state? Regular? Unleaded?

Standard Disclaimer: Fascists have a way of using "Gotchas" to make a point - For obvious reasons. Especially racist ones.

 

[Dragon]

[snip]

I make it a point, in responding to a post, to snip and not reply to any empty rhetoric, pointless insults, and non-thinking, meaningless crap. What's left -- actual thoughts -- I respond to.

You will note the result above with your post, WT. When I cut all the garbage out, there was literally nothing left. Not one word.

 

[WillowTree]

[snip]

I make it a point, in responding to a post, to snip and not reply to any empty rhetoric, pointless insults, and non-thinking, meaningless crap. What's left -- actual thoughts -- I respond to.

You will note the result above with your post, WT. When I cut all the garbage out, there was literally nothing left. Not one word.

snip away moron.

 

[The Gadfly]

This is the country with the most millionaires and billionaires..

We don't have a shortage.

Just sayin'.

We aren't short of lowlife, commie scum either; fortunately, that can be rectified....

 

[Big Fitz]

Rrrriiiiiight.....

Painting your opponents as "crazed conspiracists" is unbecoming of you, and it does nothing to make a point.

Meanwhile, why are the tomatoes rotting in the fields of Georgia?

Tomatoes rotting in fields as result of immigration law | Dothan Eagle

Can you connect the dots?

But accurate in this case.

 

[Big Fitz]

You should be used to it from the good ole days back on another forum. You're still a problem child. The white cat may be gone, but the same brain keeps knocking you around like a badminton birdy.

Wow. Referencing the old country, using the term "problem child", and bragging about your internet cock size is like the triple crown of lameness.

You should be proud.

At least Citizens United fixed a major problem with campaign financing by allowing ALL corporations to support candidates fully, not just leftwing supporting unions.

All or none. That is my standard. Either everyone gets to play or nobody gets to play. the catch is, that money is still free speech and cannot be separated from money.

Of course, I will concede the right to ban corps from doing this if ALL soft and non personal monies are banned too. No unions, PACs, 927s, fund raising events bundling, group donations... nothing. Name, home address for everyone as individuals. You willing to accept those terms?

No. I don't think money is "free speech". If I aske a cop to let me off a ticket, it's speech. But if I ask him to let me off a ticket while handing him a 20, it's a bribe.

Funny that.

Sorry, I can't help the fact that you're still the same little dick today as you always were. Just seeing you pop off as an authority makes me laugh.

Everyone else save commie wastoids has figured out that money equals free speech and freedom of association. But that must come from an intrinsic and normal understanding of property rights.

 

[Luissa]

This is the country with the most millionaires and billionaires..

We don't have a shortage.

Just sayin'.

We aren't short of lowlife, commie scum either; fortunately, that can be rectified....

You are an idiot.

 

[Dr Grump]

Everyone else save commie wastoids has figured out that money equals free speech and freedom of association. But that must come from an intrinsic and normal understanding of property rights.

You have a warped sense of freedom is...