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OC Couple Threatened With $500-Per-Meeting Fines For Home Bible Study

daveman

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OC Couple Threatened With $500-Per-Meeting Fines For Home Bible Study
MISSION VIEJO (CBS) — An Orange County couple has been ordered to stop holding a Bible study in their home on the grounds that the meeting violates a city ordinance as a “church” and not as a private gathering.

Homeowners Chuck and Stephanie Fromm, of San Juan Capistrano, were fined $300 earlier this month for holding what city officials called “a regular gathering of more than three people”.

That type of meeting would require a conditional use permit as defined by the city, according to Pacific Justice Institute (PJI), the coupleÂ’s legal representation.

The Fromms also reportedly face subsequent fines of $500 per meeting for any further “religious gatherings” in their home, according to PJI.

“We’re just gathering and enjoying each other’s company and fellowship. And we enjoy studying God’s word.” Stephanie Fromm told CBS2.

--

Neighbors have written letters to the city in support of the Fromms, whom they said have not caused any disturbances with the meetings, according to PJI.

“The Fromm case further involves regular meetings on Sunday mornings and Thursday afternoons with up to 50 people, with impacts on the residential neighborhood on street access and parking,” City Attorney Omar Sandoval said.​

Selective enforcement, perhaps?
 

Mad Scientist

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That's Freedom! :lol:
 

Dr.Drock

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Total madness, let's hope it gets thrown out.

I think in the article the prosecutor says sometimes up to 50 people are in the area to attend these meetings? Does that mean graduation parties are illegal? A wedding in someone's backyard? Family reunions? No big barbecues?
 
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Truthmatters

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did you know that Orange country is a HUGE republican area?
 

Skull Pilot

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The fucking police state in action.
 

Photonic

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So they should get special treatment because they are religious?


Note that while I don't agree with the punishment or even the law in the first place they should not be special in the law.

They are clearly causing a disruption on a weekly basis however.

If the people don't have a problem with it though I'm not sure why it should matter?

They should dispute it under the first amendment though.
 
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Truthmatters

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what these people dont realize is its likely a parking issue.
 

Skull Pilot

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So they should get special treatment because they are religious?


Note that while I don't agree with the punishment or even the law in the first place they should not be special in the law.

So you'd be OK if your regular poker night with the guys in your basement was subject to government intervention?
 

Truthmatters

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“The Fromm case further involves regular meetings on Sunday mornings and Thursday afternoons with up to 50 people, with impacts on the residential neighborhood on street access and parking,” City Attorney Omar Sandoval said.

I was right
 

Skull Pilot

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“The Fromm case further involves regular meetings on Sunday mornings and Thursday afternoons with up to 50 people, with impacts on the residential neighborhood on street access and parking,” City Attorney Omar Sandoval said.

I was right

If the street is not designated as a residential only parking zone then there is no problem.
 

Truthmatters

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if your neighbor was having 50 people over two days a week I think you would see the problem
 

Dr.Drock

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“The Fromm case further involves regular meetings on Sunday mornings and Thursday afternoons with up to 50 people, with impacts on the residential neighborhood on street access and parking,” City Attorney Omar Sandoval said.

I was right


No, you were wrong, the neighbors have no problem with it.

Not only do they not have a problem, they're taking time to write the city to voice their support for the Fromm's.

I hope you make sure to bring gov't officials to your home the next time you want to have people over, to make sure you're parked correctly, and make sure you poll every person up to 5 blocks from your home to make sure they're all ok with it before you invite anyone over.
 
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daveman

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Total madness, let's hope it gets thrown out.

I think in the article the prosecutor says sometimes up to 50 people are in the area to attend these meetings? Does that mean graduation parties are illegal? A wedding in someone's backyard? Family reunions? No big barbecues?
Many people have Superbowl parties every year.

Not in OC, baby!
 

Skull Pilot

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if your neighbor was having 50 people over two days a week I think you would see the problem

And if the street was not designated as residential parking only there wouldn't be much I could do about it.

Tell me what's the better solution

The fucking government telling you that you can't have people over to your own home or the people of the neighborhood petitioning the city for a residential parking only status for their street?
 

Photonic

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So they should get special treatment because they are religious?


Note that while I don't agree with the punishment or even the law in the first place they should not be special in the law.

So you'd be OK if your regular poker night with the guys in your basement was subject to government intervention?

Fucking hell where did you extrapolate that from?

Please read my post before responding to it.
 

Truthmatters

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“The Fromm case further involves regular meetings on Sunday mornings and Thursday afternoons with up to 50 people, with impacts on the residential neighborhood on street access and parking,” City Attorney Omar Sandoval said.

I was right


No, you were wrong, the neighbors have no problem with it.

Not only do they not have a problem, they're taking time to write the city to voice their support for the Fromm's.

I hope you make sure to bring gov't officials to your home the next time you want to have people over, to make sure you're parked correctly, and make sure you poll every person up to 5 blocks from your home to make sure they're all ok with it before you invite anyone over.


Some neighbors wrote in in support, how many others were sick of wall to wall cars and unable to find parking on thursdays when they come home from work.

This is not on the farm people, this is an urban suburban area
 

Truthmatters

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So they should get special treatment because they are religious?


Note that while I don't agree with the punishment or even the law in the first place they should not be special in the law.

So you'd be OK if your regular poker night with the guys in your basement was subject to government intervention?

50 person poker party twice a week?
 

Ravi

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Entitlement junkies.

All they need to do is get a permit, but of course they are too good for that.

Who cares about states rights?
 

OohPooPahDoo

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OC Couple Threatened With $500-Per-Meeting Fines For Home Bible Study
MISSION VIEJO (CBS) — An Orange County couple has been ordered to stop holding a Bible study in their home on the grounds that the meeting violates a city ordinance as a “church” and not as a private gathering.

Homeowners Chuck and Stephanie Fromm, of San Juan Capistrano, were fined $300 earlier this month for holding what city officials called “a regular gathering of more than three people”.

That type of meeting would require a conditional use permit as defined by the city, according to Pacific Justice Institute (PJI), the couple’s legal representation.

The Fromms also reportedly face subsequent fines of $500 per meeting for any further “religious gatherings” in their home, according to PJI.

“We’re just gathering and enjoying each other’s company and fellowship. And we enjoy studying God’s word.” Stephanie Fromm told CBS2.

--

Neighbors have written letters to the city in support of the Fromms, whom they said have not caused any disturbances with the meetings, according to PJI.

“The Fromm case further involves regular meetings on Sunday mornings and Thursday afternoons with up to 50 people, with impacts on the residential neighborhood on street access and parking,” City Attorney Omar Sandoval said.​

Selective enforcement, perhaps?


They should move to New Orleans. Here when a neighbors code violations are annoying other neighbors, the other neighbors talk to the code violator about ways to make it less annoying, rather than calling in the law. For one thing - the law doesn't care.

If you have 50 people over every week for anything in a neighborhood with residential street parking - you'd better figure out what do to about parking - expecting your neighbors to be fine with it is unreasonable. A person in our neighborhood was holding weddings at his house - for profit - nearly every week, and the parking situation was horrible. Rather than call in the authorities, our civic association put pressure on the guy to rent a parking lot nearby - and he did. problem solved.
 
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