Obscene Apologies

[WillowTree]

The sickening part, High_Gravity is they were looking for AMERICANS...couldnt find any....so decided those people would have to make do.

Yep! Which tells me they are rabid animals with a lust to kill.

 

[Ravi]

The pastor is now the victim? Give me a break.

No the Afghan mob are the victims.

No, the people that got killed are the victims. Pretending that pastor Jones is the victim, as Foxfire and before her PC did, is wrong.

In fact it is probably the most revolting thing I've ever read here.

 

[Foxfyre]

The pastor is now the victim? Give me a break.

No the Afghan mob are the victims.

No, the people that got killed are the victims. Pretending that pastor Jones is the victim, as Foxfire and before her PC did, is wrong.

In fact it is probably the most revolting thing I've ever read here.

I did not state, suggest, imply, or pretend that pastor Jones was a victim. I have expressly condemned the act of buring the Qu'ran if you want to be honest about what has been said on this thread.

My comments you apparently are referring to were prompted by H.G.'s comment that I quoted--he wasn't painting Jones as a 'victim' either. If you will read my post more carefully and without prejudice, you will see that I am commenting on victims AND the scapegoats that are sometimes blamed for these things when it is politically incorrect to blame the person who actually does the crime.

 

[Ravi]

I was commenting on this:

That is one of the most frustrating phenomenons in this current age of politics. It has become fashionable to blame the victim of the crime, IF that victim is somebody who is out of favor or politically incorrect, or some other 'unacceptable' catalyst rather than accuse and condemn those who commit the crime.

The only victim in this case you could possibly be talking about is Jones and he is NOT a victim.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

I'm sure if this Pastor had burned a Bible instead,the usual suspects would be lining up to defend his right to do so. Lots of dishonesty,cowardice,and hypocrisy on this one. There is still no justification for going on a rampage and massacring innocent people. Period,end of story.

 

[Foxfyre]

I was commenting on this:

That is one of the most frustrating phenomenons in this current age of politics. It has become fashionable to blame the victim of the crime, IF that victim is somebody who is out of favor or politically incorrect, or some other 'unacceptable' catalyst rather than accuse and condemn those who commit the crime.

The only victim in this case you could possibly be talking about is Jones and he is NOT a victim.

Well you're wrong because I did not have the pastor in mind when I typed that sentence. Hate to disappoint your little diatribe against me, but unless I NAMED or specified the victim, he or she will remain a rhetorical victim. The pastor would fit into the catalyst category.

I will concede that some folks, most especially when they want to 'get' somebody, might draw the same conclusion you drew and, if I had not previously condemned the pastor's act, the way I worded it that would not be an unusual conclusion. Reasonable people, however, accept the explanation of the person making it instead of continuing to pile on their erroneous conclusion.

So I'll reword my paragraph JUST for you dear.

That is one of the most frustrating phenomenons in this current age of politics. It has become fashionable to blame the 'unacceptable' catalyst of the crime or even the victim of the crime IF the catalyst involved or a victim is somebody who is out of favor or politically incorrect.

Happy now?

 

[L.K.Eder]

This is disgusting, the blame for these deaths lay at the feet of the stupid Afghan mob who killed them, just because an idiot burned a Quran doesnt give anyone an excuse to kill.

this shit does not occur in a vacuum. and the world is not black or white. and water is wet.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm sure if this Pastor had burned a Bible instead,the usual suspects would be lining up to defend his right to do so. Lots of dishonesty,cowardice,and hypocrisy on this one. There is still no justification for going on a rampage and massacring innocent people. Period,end of story.

That was the point I was trying to make albeit apparently badly.

Depending on whether they are considered "good or bad", too often the focus will be on either the catalyst or the victim. Sometimes they are painted with the same critical brush.

Disclaimer: That is SOMETIMES Ravi--not all the time, not most of the time. Also I made a distinction between a catalyst and a victim as SOMETIMES--not all the time, not most of the time--but SOMETIMES being the the same thing. The pastor in this case was NOT a victim but IS seen as the catalyst for a crime.

Some nut uses a military assault rifle to gun down people on a military base and, when it was determined he was a radicalized Muslim, was HE blamed and damned for the act? Not by some. They focused on Reagan and Bush being at fault for bombing Muslims or keeping some locked up at Guatanamo.

Some nut shoots into a crowd of people in Arizona. Is he blamed and damned for the act? Not by everybody. If you believe the pages and pages on numerous threads, it was the fault of radio talk show hosts for inciting to riot (or some such) and the fault of Sarah Palin who used a certain graphic on her web site.

Some hatefilled terrorists savagelly murder innocent victims, including little kids. Is he blamed and damned for that act? Not so much if you read some of the stuff on this and other threads. It is bad Israeli policy that causes such acts--some even suggested the victims were 'asking' for it because they supported that Israeli policy--and there is far less focus on an advocate of a twisted religion that would tolerate such acts.

And now another massacre of some U.N. workers by another advocate of the same twisted religion. A despicable act but is the focus on him? Not according to some who seem gung ho to accuse a pastor who stupidly and hatefully burned a Qu'ran as the real reason it all happened.

It seems that some don't blame those who commit the crimes anymore. It is politically incorrect. They are 'victims' of their circumstances that can be anything from bullying to bad parenting to stingy politicians not providing enough funding to differences of opinion branded 'hate speech' on the radio or television or religious people demonstrating their opinion of something or bad acts of administrations past or present or whatever.

And it is THAT I find frustrating.

 

[Sallow]

Hmm..

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Oh don't worry,if this idiot had burned a Bible instead,the usual suspect Wingers would be here vigorously defending his right to do so. They're the crowd that loves to piously declare all those who disagree with them to be "Islamophobes." And we all know who those Wingers are. These Wingers just love insulting and berating Christianity while at the same time having a strange love affair with Islam. What a bunch of dishonest nutters.

The fact is,we are a Free Nation. So the loon in Florida does have the right to burn a Koran. And believe me,if he was burning a Bible or dunking a Crucifix in urine,the usual suspect Wingers would be joyously defending this loon's right to do so. So don't buy into their "Islamophobe" accusations. They are very dishonest & hypocritical people. I don't like the guy burning a Koran but he does have the right to do so in my country. And fuck those miserable Muslim assholes who murdered those innocent people in response. Hey just my opinion anyway.

 

[High_Gravity]

This is disgusting, the blame for these deaths lay at the feet of the stupid Afghan mob who killed them, just because an idiot burned a Quran doesnt give anyone an excuse to kill.

this shit does not occur in a vacuum. and the world is not black or white. and water is wet.

Huh? whats your point?

 

[Foxfyre]

This is disgusting, the blame for these deaths lay at the feet of the stupid Afghan mob who killed them, just because an idiot burned a Quran doesnt give anyone an excuse to kill.

this shit does not occur in a vacuum. and the world is not black or white. and water is wet.

Huh? whats your point?

I'm thinking he's going with the blame the victim and/or catalyst concept rather than blame the one who does the crime?

 

[High_Gravity]

this shit does not occur in a vacuum. and the world is not black or white. and water is wet.

Huh? whats your point?

I'm thinking he's going with the blame the victim and/or catalyst concept rather than blame the one who does the crime?

Oh.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Yea i wouldn't listen to the "Islamophobe" accusation crowd too much on this one. They are known to be pretty dishonest & hypocritical. If he had dunked a Crucifix in urine or burned a Bible,they would all be here cheerleading and defending his right to do so. But because it's a Koran,they have a completely different take on it. Lefty Wingers are known for that kind of warped hypocrisy. They have this weird little love affair with Islam these days. But boy do they hate those bad Christians. They make no sense. So don't get too upset when they accuse you of being an "Islamophobe." They're just full of sheet as usual. I don't like burning or defacing any religious symbols but it is the right of all American Citizens. People should be defending this man. There are no justifications for killing innocent people over it. And shame on all those who are trying to defend that.

 

[Ravi]

I was commenting on this:

That is one of the most frustrating phenomenons in this current age of politics. It has become fashionable to blame the victim of the crime, IF that victim is somebody who is out of favor or politically incorrect, or some other 'unacceptable' catalyst rather than accuse and condemn those who commit the crime.

The only victim in this case you could possibly be talking about is Jones and he is NOT a victim.

Well you're wrong because I did not have the pastor in mind when I typed that sentence. Hate to disappoint your little diatribe against me, but unless I NAMED or specified the victim, he or she will remain a rhetorical victim. The pastor would fit into the catalyst category.

I will concede that some folks, most especially when they want to 'get' somebody, might draw the same conclusion you drew and, if I had not previously condemned the pastor's act, the way I worded it that would not be an unusual conclusion. Reasonable people, however, accept the explanation of the person making it instead of continuing to pile on their erroneous conclusion.

So I'll reword my paragraph JUST for you dear.

That is one of the most frustrating phenomenons in this current age of politics. It has become fashionable to blame the 'unacceptable' catalyst of the crime or even the victim of the crime IF the catalyst involved or a victim is somebody who is out of favor or politically incorrect.

Happy now?

Much better. The catalyst bears some responsibility for his actions. Those people wouldn't be dead if he hadn't burned the Koran...there is really no getting away from that.

However unpc it might be to call a Christian pastor on his bullshit.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

He should burn Bibles instead. Then the Lefty Wingers could jump on board and defend his right to do so. Because we all know how much they just love defending those who drop Crucifixes in urine and desecrate Bibles. This man has the right to burn a Koran. People should be focusing on that rather than trying to spin murdering innocent civilians is somehow justified. We are America. You have the Freedom to do stupid things like burning Korans and putting Crucifixes in urine. And i wouldn't want it any other way.

 

[High_Gravity]

He should burn Bibles instead. Then the Lefty Wingers could jump on board and defend his right to do so. Because we all know how much they just love defending those who drop Crucifixes in urine and desecrate Bibles. This man has the right to burn a Koran. People should be focusing on that rather than trying to spin murdering innocent civilians is somehow justified. We are America. You have the Freedom to do stupid things like burning Korans and putting Crucifixes in urine. And i wouldn't want it any other way.

I just don't get how it is ok to burn Bibles but if you burn a Quran, you can start riots in a country thousands of miles away?

 

[Foxfyre]

He should burn Bibles instead. Then the Lefty Wingers could jump on board and defend his right to do so. Because we all know how much they just love defending those who drop Crucifixes in urine and desecrate Bibles. This man has the right to burn a Koran. People should be focusing on that rather than trying to spin murdering innocent civilians is somehow justified. We are America. You have the Freedom to do stupid things like burning Korans and putting Crucifixes in urine. And i wouldn't want it any other way.

I just don't get how it is ok to burn Bibles but if you burn a Quran, you can start riots in a country thousands of miles away?

But you see, except for the very occasional mentally ill nut, burning a Bible saddens or angers Christians but does not incite them to riot, mayhem, or murder. Radicalized militant Islam is a much different animal.

So the question is. Do we live our lives so as not to offend radicalized militant Islam which will eventually put us totally under the power of their leaders and clerics? Do we blame those who decide not to accommodate radicalized militant Islam and who choose to exercise their constitutionally protected rights?

Or do we hold to our principles of a free people being free to do stupid or hateful things that do not infringe on the unalienable, civil, legal, or constitutional rights of others? And do we hold accountable those who would deny people such rights and would even murder people because somebody exercised their constitutionally protected rights?

 

[High_Gravity]

He should burn Bibles instead. Then the Lefty Wingers could jump on board and defend his right to do so. Because we all know how much they just love defending those who drop Crucifixes in urine and desecrate Bibles. This man has the right to burn a Koran. People should be focusing on that rather than trying to spin murdering innocent civilians is somehow justified. We are America. You have the Freedom to do stupid things like burning Korans and putting Crucifixes in urine. And i wouldn't want it any other way.

I just don't get how it is ok to burn Bibles but if you burn a Quran, you can start riots in a country thousands of miles away?

But you see, except for the very occasional mentally ill nut, burning a Bible saddens or angers Christians but does not incite them to riot, mayhem, or murder. Radicalized militant Islam is a much different animal.

So the question is. Do we live our lives so as not to offend radicalized militant Islam which will eventually put us totally under the power of their leaders and clerics? Do we blame those decide not to accommodate radicalized militant Islam and those who act it out as those murderers did?
Or do we hold to our principles of a free people being free to do stupid or hateful things that do not infringe on the unalienable, civil, legal, or constitutional rights of others and hold accountable those who would deny people such rights and would even murder people for exercising them?

Thats the thing, if we are walking on egg shells scared to offend Muslims and are blaming the pastor rather than the retarded Afghan mob that killed those UN Workers, the jihadists have already won. We already got our female Soldiers wearing hijabs in Afghanistan.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

He should burn Bibles instead. Then the Lefty Wingers could jump on board and defend his right to do so. Because we all know how much they just love defending those who drop Crucifixes in urine and desecrate Bibles. This man has the right to burn a Koran. People should be focusing on that rather than trying to spin murdering innocent civilians is somehow justified. We are America. You have the Freedom to do stupid things like burning Korans and putting Crucifixes in urine. And i wouldn't want it any other way.

I just don't get how it is ok to burn Bibles but if you burn a Quran, you can start riots in a country thousands of miles away?

Yea i hear ya. Lefty Wingers are usually pretty dishonest & hypocritical on issues like this. They're the first ones to come out and aggressively defend anyone who desecrates a Bible or defames Christianity in any way. They're also the first ones to label someone an "Islamophobe." They have some sort of twisted love affair with Islam right now. I'm sure it has something to do with their petty hatred of Christians. They see Islam as a way of hurting Christians i guess. Therefore they feel they need to side with it all the time. It's that "Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend." shit i guess. It's really warped shit. To justify & equate beheading an innocent human being with burning a Koran is just plain ludicrous. Shame on anyone who tries to spin this in that way. Like i said,if he decided to burn Bibles instead,we would probably see some honesty from the Lefty Wingers. It is what it is i guess.