CDZ Obiter Dicta MMXVI

320 Years of History

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It's no secret that Donald Trump is the last person I wanted to see become president elect. As has happened in other matters, I don't get to have my way. Having my way, however, was never the point. The point for me was always that of seeing chosen a person whom I could reliably anticipate what they'd do and not do as President. The point was having a President whom I knew, not hoped or suspected, had a clear plan, one that I understood what it entailed and what it did not, for what they wanted to do and then set about doing them. The point was oderint dum metuant is inapt as the tacitly thematic warp and woof of America and its Presidency. But those are my values. Too few Americans share them. De gustibus non disputandum est....

Does it bother me that Trump will be the next U.S. President? No and yes. No because pragmatically the quality of my life was and remains unlikely to change. That'd be so, I think, regardless of who won. I have never lacked confidence I'd flourish on under any President for that's been so under past Democratic and GOP regimes. Knowing that from the campaigns' outset, my focus was not inward unto myself. Instead, my concern dwelt upon the entity that is the United States of America. No because, as with all outcomes, I and everyone else have options in their wake, even as the choices be one's we like less than they that might have been. There again, that's my way of playing the cards I'm dealt and considering what to do after the contest. When I must, I become the phoenix. So must we all. Igne natura renovatur integra.

But what about the "yes" of my answer? Well, I'm reminded of my earliest colonial ancestor. He was a man who came here seeking his fortune. He lived with no permanent home. He was the immigrant. He was a man whom Indians took in and showed him how to thrive in a world thoroughly unfamiliar to him. He was a man who had nothing but his fecundity and physicality to offer. He dug for furs, foraged and found his way to becoming a merchant trader and founder of a family that has hold forth by unwavering reliance on the values and commitment to not letting life happen to us, but making our way by taking what we had and building upon it. Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

Applying his verve is what brought the American Dream to fruition for everyone who's ever known it. Sadly and given the rhetoric I heard during the 2016 campaign, given last night's result, I hear resoundingly affirmed that the notion of making lemonade from life's lemons is dead in America. Instead, we see half the electorate disinclined to hew "heaven" from the humble talents He helped upon them. Rather in vox populi they beseech their "savior," Trump, rain down prosperity upon them; they forget that ex nihilo nihil fit.

Questing for their "piece of the pie," voters have spoken, telling us the principles and practices that yielded glory, fame and fortune for every successful citizen this nation has known, including Trump, should reign no longer as the way. Yet that was never what the Founding Fathers intended. America evolved, however, to allow the sway of the masses to hold -- people's will to be sure, but not the undeniably hubristic will the Founders expected "we the people" to exert. Thus I accept that, but I know what they want is not the America theirs and my forefathers envisioned. Astra inclinant, sed non obligant.

Instauratio delenda est.
Trump's supporters blame the establishment, the elites, for all that's wrong in their lives, with America and in the world. Voting for Trump, his ragtag band of bullies, race baiters, immigrant haters, muddlers, middlings and misdemeanant mediocrities cry, "Drain the swamp." Strangely they imagine after doing so, the "swamp's" bounty will remain available for them to exploit. Will it? Somehow Trump's cabal of caterwaulers contrive America will be great without the contributions and participation of the very people whom Trump's supporters have insulted, called crooked, and declared duplicitously disingenuous. Will patriotism prevail over pique? Aut cum scuto aut in scuto.

I don't know what will be the preponderant answer. During the day after, I heard some so-called elites say privately they aim to "take the bat and ball" and "play" elsewhere. That's certainly a viable option for many of my peers. I also heard some say they'd wait and see. Others still will stay the course no matter what. I wish the Trumpkins well, but I think they'll only ever truly come to understand what they've rejected if the establishment in large measure takes the first tack. "The People" have been more than adequately clear as far as I'm concerned. I say let "The People" find out just what America is like when 50%+ of its tax base leaves, when the intellectual and business elite "take their toys" and deploy them in other parts of the world that offer far greater growth opportunities than the mature U.S. economy does. Maybe Mexico will pay them to build an accursed wall. Castigat ridendo mores!

I'm of that mind not out of vindictiveness, but because I believe that there are no "Mulligans" in life or politics. Trump and his followers want to oust the establishment. Fine. The establishment -- the doctors, the patent holders, the lawyers, the bankers, builders, businesspeople, etc. who have "played by the rules" for all these centuries -- should leave and let the folks who wanted us gone have the nation to themselves and see how they make out. Cui bono?

Auribus teneo lupum. Of course, I hardly expect any such mass "brain drain." Yet that's essentially what "the elite" were clearly told "The People" want. They want us out; we should go. What's right about "the elite" staying? Is it fair that in wake of enduring our nation's scorn we should yet make the bounty of our efforts available to them? In this global economy in which is matters not where one lives and pays taxes, where it matters instead that one's mental might be brought to bear to solve problems? Every member of the establishment has made choices good and bad and had to live with them and learn how not to repeat them. Should these populists be allowed to "have their political cake and eat it too?" I say, "No." I'm not saying "let them eat cake." I'm saying they've baked their cake, now let them eat it and see how it tastes. Vincit qui se vincit.


Brutum fulmen?
Probably, but it needed to be said.
 
Last edited:

OldLady

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It's no secret that Donald Trump is the last person I wanted to see become president elect. As has happened in other matters, I don't get to have my way. Having my way, however, was never the point. The point for me was always that of seeing chosen a person whom I could reliably anticipate what they'd do and not do as President. The point was having a President whom I knew, not hoped or suspected, had a clear plan, one that I understood what it entailed and what it did not, for what they wanted to do and then set about doing them. The point was oderint dum metuant is inapt as the tacitly thematic warp and woof of America and its Presidency. But those are my values. Too few Americans share them. De gustibus non disputandum est....

Does it bother me that Trump will be the next U.S. President? No and yes. No because pragmatically the quality of my life was and remains unlikely to change. That'd be so, I think, regardless of who won. I have never lacked confidence I'd flourish on under any President for that's been so under past Democratic and GOP regimes. Knowing that from the campaigns' outset, my focus was not inward unto myself. Instead, my concern dwelt upon the entity that is the United States of America. No because, as with all outcomes, I and everyone else have options in their wake, even as the choices be one's we like less than they that might have been. There again, that's my way of playing the cards I'm dealt and considering what to do after the contest. When I must, I become the phoenix. So must we all. Igne natura renovatur integra.

But what about the "yes" of my answer? Well, I'm reminded of my earliest colonial ancestor. He was a man who came here seeking his fortune. He lived with no permanent home. He was the immigrant. He was a man whom Indians took in and showed him how to thrive in a world thoroughly unfamiliar to him. He was a man who had nothing but his fecundity and physicality to offer. He dug for furs, foraged and found his way to becoming a merchant trader and founder of a family that has hold forth by unwavering reliance on the values and commitment to not letting life happen to us, but making our way by taking what we had and building upon it. Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

Applying his verve is what brought the American Dream to fruition for everyone who's ever known it. Sadly and given the rhetoric I heard during the 2016 campaign, given last night's result, I hear resoundingly affirmed that the notion of making lemonade from life's lemons is dead in America. Instead, we see half the electorate disinclined to hew "heaven" from the humble talents He helped upon them. Rather in vox populi they beseech their "savior," Trump, rain down prosperity upon them; they forget that ex nihilo nihil fit.

Questing for their "piece of the pie," voters have spoken, telling us the principles and practices that yielded glory, fame and fortune for every successful citizen this nation has known, including Trump, should reign no longer as the way. Yet that was never what the Founding Fathers intended. America evolved, however, to allow the sway of the masses to hold -- people's will to be sure, but not the undeniably hubristic will the Founders expected "we the people" to exert. Thus I accept that, but I know what they want is not the America theirs and my forefathers envisioned. Astra inclinant, sed non obligant.

Instauratio delenda est.
Trump's supporters blame the establishment, the elites, for all that's wrong in their lives, with America and in the world. Voting for Trump, his ragtag band of bullies, race baiters, immigrant haters, muddlers, middlings and misdemeanant mediocrities cry, "Drain the swamp." Strangely they imagine after doing so, the "swamp's" bounty will remain available for them to exploit. Will it? Somehow Trump's cabal of caterwaulers contrive America will be great without the contributions and participation of the very people whom Trump's supporters have insulted, called crooked, and declared duplicitously disingenuous. Will patriotism prevail over pique? Aut cum scuto aut in scuto.

I don't know what will be the preponderant answer. During the day after, I heard some so-called elites say privately they aim to "take the bat and ball" and "play" elsewhere. That's certainly a viable option for many of my peers. I also heard some say they'd wait and see. Others still will stay the course no matter what. I wish the Trumpkins well, but I think they'll only ever truly come to understand what they've rejected if the establishment in large measure takes the first tack. "The People" have been more than adequately clear as far as I'm concerned. I say let "The People" find out just what America is like when 50%+ of its tax base leaves, when the intellectual and business elite "take their toys" and deploy them in other parts of the world that offer far greater growth opportunities than the mature U.S. economy does. Maybe Mexico will pay them to build an accursed wall. Castigat ridendo mores!

I'm of that mind not out of vindictiveness, but because I believe that there are no "Mulligans" in life or politics. Trump and his followers want to oust the establishment. Fine. The establishment -- the doctors, the patent holders, the lawyers, the bankers, builders, businesspeople, etc. who have "played by the rules" for all these centuries -- should leave and let the folks who wanted us gone have the nation to themselves and see how they make out. Cui bono?

Auribus teneo lupum. Of course, I hardly expect any such mass "brain drain." Yet that's essentially what "the elite" were clearly told "The People" want. They want us out; we should go. What's right about "the elite" staying? Is it fair that in wake of enduring our nation's scorn we should yet make the bounty of our efforts available to them? In this global economy in which is matters not where one lives and pays taxes, where it matters instead that one's mental might be brought to bear to solve problems? Every member of the establishment has made choices good and bad and had to live with them and learn how not to repeat them. Should these populists be allowed to "have their political cake and eat it too?" I say, "No." I'm not saying "let them eat cake." I'm saying they've baked their cake, now let them eat it and see how it tastes. Vincit qui se vincit.


Brutum fulmen?
Probably, but it needed to be said.
The people who think they're ousting the "Establishment" have no clue what it is; they just object to the "haves" running the whole show. Object to money (which most of us haven't got) controlling all the decisions made in Washington. Yes, we are a capitalist country, but our government is not supposed to be involved in that grubby enterprise.
The populists are not going to kill the American dream, or American creativity or the concept of hard work and personal responsibility. They're just reminding some folks who have been too far removed from their reality for too long that -- THEY EXIST. And they want to be heard, dammit all.
The big question for me is, will the elites listen, even now?
 
OP
320 Years of History

320 Years of History

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The people who think they're ousting the "Establishment" have no clue what it is;
Then they should not have talked about it.

they just object to the "haves" running the whole show.
Well, who the hell else is supposed to do it? Cabals of high school educated Trumpkins. They think the "haves" were running the show before Trump. Just wait and see who runs it in his Administration. They elected a friggin' billionaire. Who in their right mind thinks that anyone but others like him will rise to formal political power. And who will be added to the ranks of "losers?" Only lobbyists, for they simply won't be needed once the CEO-class Trump installs take the reigns.

Yes, we are a capitalist country, but our government is not supposed to be involved in that grubby enterprise.
By what fantasy should it not? If you are among the folks who provide over half of the money the government spends, would you not expect a commensurate say in how it spends it? You are the government of your household aren't you. Do you let your kids and their friends, the beneficiaries of your efforts, determine how resources are used or not used? I'm sure you do not.

Capitalism and democracy are not the same things. They must in the U.S. coexist, and that means that both are in play all the time. Everyone gets to enjoy and must suffer the pros and cons of each.

They're just reminding some folks who have been too far removed from their reality for too long that -- THEY EXIST. And they want to be heard
Oh, they've been heard alright. Not that they had something worth hearing, but we heard what they had to say. I say give them what they asked for -- our departure -- and let them lie in the bed of fetid mud that remains after the swamp has been drained. I suspect the Trumpkins will build a wall at the mouth of the swamp and pray the rain refills it.

Trumpkins like their simple reasoning. I have some for them: be careful what one demands lest one receive it. The skills, innovations and resources the "Establishment" and "Elites" bring to the table are highly sought everywhere on the planet. There is no need for us to favor the U.S. in choosing where to first deploy them going forward. Truly, I'd happily see the whole of the Fortune 400 and next 999,960 wealthiest Americans take their physical and mental wherewithal and leave.

Maybe then the Trumpkins will forgo their post-truth paradigm and actually start to think comprehensively about what they did to themselves by electing DJT and how to fix it. Maybe they'll teach physics to themselves and become leaders in quantum computing and space exploration? I doubt it, but I say leave them to their own devices so we and they can find out just how well this era of Trump works out for them. They wanted to be heard, well heard they have been. Now it's high time to heed them too.

The big question for me is, will the elites listen, even now?
Listen to what? More lamentations of woe is me? More of Trumpkins blaming everyone but themselves for what they've wrought? Cries of "We didn't think he meant 'that.'"? Cries of "We didn't know 'that' is what would happen?" Why would the people who spent over a year telling folks "that" is exactly what they have to expect from putting that man in office even bother listening any more?

The "Burger King" crowd wanted it their way. Let them have it I say.
 

OldLady

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The people who think they're ousting the "Establishment" have no clue what it is;
Then they should not have talked about it.

they just object to the "haves" running the whole show.
Well, who the hell else is supposed to do it? Cabals of high school educated Trumpkins. They think the "haves" were running the show before Trump. Just wait and see who runs it in his Administration. They elected a friggin' billionaire. Who in their right mind thinks that anyone but others like him will rise to formal political power. And who will be added to the ranks of "losers?" Only lobbyists, for they simply won't be needed once the CEO-class Trump installs take the reigns.

Yes, we are a capitalist country, but our government is not supposed to be involved in that grubby enterprise.
By what fantasy should it not? If you are among the folks who provide over half of the money the government spends, would you not expect a commensurate say in how it spends it? You are the government of your household aren't you. Do you let your kids and their friends, the beneficiaries of your efforts, determine how resources are used or not used? I'm sure you do not.

Capitalism and democracy are not the same things. They must in the U.S. coexist, and that means that both are in play all the time. Everyone gets to enjoy and must suffer the pros and cons of each.

They're just reminding some folks who have been too far removed from their reality for too long that -- THEY EXIST. And they want to be heard
Oh, they've been heard alright. Not that they had something worth hearing, but we heard what they had to say. I say give them what they asked for -- our departure -- and let them lie in the bed of fetid mud that remains after the swamp has been drained. I suspect the Trumpkins will build a wall at the mouth of the swamp and pray the rain refills it.

Trumpkins like their simple reasoning. I have some for them: be careful what one demands lest one receive it. The skills, innovations and resources the "Establishment" and "Elites" bring to the table are highly sought everywhere on the planet. There is no need for us to favor the U.S. in choosing where to first deploy them going forward. Truly, I'd happily see the whole of the Fortune 400 and next 999,960 wealthiest Americans take their physical and mental wherewithal and leave.

Maybe then the Trumpkins will forgo their post-truth paradigm and actually start to think comprehensively about what they did to themselves by electing DJT and how to fix it. Maybe they'll teach physics to themselves and become leaders in quantum computing and space exploration? I doubt it, but I say leave them to their own devices so we and they can find out just how well this era of Trump works out for them. They wanted to be heard, well heard they have been. Now it's high time to heed them too.

The big question for me is, will the elites listen, even now?
Listen to what? More lamentations of woe is me? More of Trumpkins blaming everyone but themselves for what they've wrought? Cries of "We didn't think he meant 'that.'"? Cries of "We didn't know 'that' is what would happen?" Why would the people who spent over a year telling folks "that" is exactly what they have to expect from putting that man in office even bother listening any more?

The "Burger King" crowd wanted it their way. Let them have it I say.
You are REALLY sore, aren't you?
I was more expressing the reasoning than saying I support it. I don't believe that Trump or even Jesus himself could "drain the swamp"--even if it IS as bad as certain fevered imaginations believe, which I doubt. And I don't care if people are rich. Fine with me.
The American people bought a bill of goods. I wouldn't take it personal.
 
OP
320 Years of History

320 Years of History

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The people who think they're ousting the "Establishment" have no clue what it is;
Then they should not have talked about it.

they just object to the "haves" running the whole show.
Well, who the hell else is supposed to do it? Cabals of high school educated Trumpkins. They think the "haves" were running the show before Trump. Just wait and see who runs it in his Administration. They elected a friggin' billionaire. Who in their right mind thinks that anyone but others like him will rise to formal political power. And who will be added to the ranks of "losers?" Only lobbyists, for they simply won't be needed once the CEO-class Trump installs take the reigns.

Yes, we are a capitalist country, but our government is not supposed to be involved in that grubby enterprise.
By what fantasy should it not? If you are among the folks who provide over half of the money the government spends, would you not expect a commensurate say in how it spends it? You are the government of your household aren't you. Do you let your kids and their friends, the beneficiaries of your efforts, determine how resources are used or not used? I'm sure you do not.

Capitalism and democracy are not the same things. They must in the U.S. coexist, and that means that both are in play all the time. Everyone gets to enjoy and must suffer the pros and cons of each.

They're just reminding some folks who have been too far removed from their reality for too long that -- THEY EXIST. And they want to be heard
Oh, they've been heard alright. Not that they had something worth hearing, but we heard what they had to say. I say give them what they asked for -- our departure -- and let them lie in the bed of fetid mud that remains after the swamp has been drained. I suspect the Trumpkins will build a wall at the mouth of the swamp and pray the rain refills it.

Trumpkins like their simple reasoning. I have some for them: be careful what one demands lest one receive it. The skills, innovations and resources the "Establishment" and "Elites" bring to the table are highly sought everywhere on the planet. There is no need for us to favor the U.S. in choosing where to first deploy them going forward. Truly, I'd happily see the whole of the Fortune 400 and next 999,960 wealthiest Americans take their physical and mental wherewithal and leave.

Maybe then the Trumpkins will forgo their post-truth paradigm and actually start to think comprehensively about what they did to themselves by electing DJT and how to fix it. Maybe they'll teach physics to themselves and become leaders in quantum computing and space exploration? I doubt it, but I say leave them to their own devices so we and they can find out just how well this era of Trump works out for them. They wanted to be heard, well heard they have been. Now it's high time to heed them too.

The big question for me is, will the elites listen, even now?
Listen to what? More lamentations of woe is me? More of Trumpkins blaming everyone but themselves for what they've wrought? Cries of "We didn't think he meant 'that.'"? Cries of "We didn't know 'that' is what would happen?" Why would the people who spent over a year telling folks "that" is exactly what they have to expect from putting that man in office even bother listening any more?

The "Burger King" crowd wanted it their way. Let them have it I say.
You are REALLY sore, aren't you?
I was more expressing the reasoning than saying I support it. I don't believe that Trump or even Jesus himself could "drain the swamp"--even if it IS as bad as certain fevered imaginations believe, which I doubt. And I don't care if people are rich. Fine with me.
The American people bought a bill of goods. I wouldn't take it personal.
Not taking it personally. I just truly thought better of my countrymen. Can't say I've ever been more disappointed by any large group. That's not their fault; it's mine for misconstruing them and giving them credit they deserve not. I won't make the same mistake again.
 

OldLady

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The people who think they're ousting the "Establishment" have no clue what it is;
Then they should not have talked about it.

they just object to the "haves" running the whole show.
Well, who the hell else is supposed to do it? Cabals of high school educated Trumpkins. They think the "haves" were running the show before Trump. Just wait and see who runs it in his Administration. They elected a friggin' billionaire. Who in their right mind thinks that anyone but others like him will rise to formal political power. And who will be added to the ranks of "losers?" Only lobbyists, for they simply won't be needed once the CEO-class Trump installs take the reigns.

Yes, we are a capitalist country, but our government is not supposed to be involved in that grubby enterprise.
By what fantasy should it not? If you are among the folks who provide over half of the money the government spends, would you not expect a commensurate say in how it spends it? You are the government of your household aren't you. Do you let your kids and their friends, the beneficiaries of your efforts, determine how resources are used or not used? I'm sure you do not.

Capitalism and democracy are not the same things. They must in the U.S. coexist, and that means that both are in play all the time. Everyone gets to enjoy and must suffer the pros and cons of each.

They're just reminding some folks who have been too far removed from their reality for too long that -- THEY EXIST. And they want to be heard
Oh, they've been heard alright. Not that they had something worth hearing, but we heard what they had to say. I say give them what they asked for -- our departure -- and let them lie in the bed of fetid mud that remains after the swamp has been drained. I suspect the Trumpkins will build a wall at the mouth of the swamp and pray the rain refills it.

Trumpkins like their simple reasoning. I have some for them: be careful what one demands lest one receive it. The skills, innovations and resources the "Establishment" and "Elites" bring to the table are highly sought everywhere on the planet. There is no need for us to favor the U.S. in choosing where to first deploy them going forward. Truly, I'd happily see the whole of the Fortune 400 and next 999,960 wealthiest Americans take their physical and mental wherewithal and leave.

Maybe then the Trumpkins will forgo their post-truth paradigm and actually start to think comprehensively about what they did to themselves by electing DJT and how to fix it. Maybe they'll teach physics to themselves and become leaders in quantum computing and space exploration? I doubt it, but I say leave them to their own devices so we and they can find out just how well this era of Trump works out for them. They wanted to be heard, well heard they have been. Now it's high time to heed them too.

The big question for me is, will the elites listen, even now?
Listen to what? More lamentations of woe is me? More of Trumpkins blaming everyone but themselves for what they've wrought? Cries of "We didn't think he meant 'that.'"? Cries of "We didn't know 'that' is what would happen?" Why would the people who spent over a year telling folks "that" is exactly what they have to expect from putting that man in office even bother listening any more?

The "Burger King" crowd wanted it their way. Let them have it I say.
You are REALLY sore, aren't you?
I was more expressing the reasoning than saying I support it. I don't believe that Trump or even Jesus himself could "drain the swamp"--even if it IS as bad as certain fevered imaginations believe, which I doubt. And I don't care if people are rich. Fine with me.
The American people bought a bill of goods. I wouldn't take it personal.
Not taking it personally. I just truly thought better of my countrymen. Can't say I've ever been more disappointed by any large group. That's not their fault; it's mine for misconstruing them and giving them credit they deserve not. I won't make the same mistake again.
No, it's not your fault and I feel the same. Yesterday morning at 4:23 a.m. when I turned on the tv and was greeted with the banner "Trump wins 45th President of the U.S." is a moment and a feeling I will never ever forget.
 
OP
320 Years of History

320 Years of History

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The people who think they're ousting the "Establishment" have no clue what it is;
Then they should not have talked about it.

they just object to the "haves" running the whole show.
Well, who the hell else is supposed to do it? Cabals of high school educated Trumpkins. They think the "haves" were running the show before Trump. Just wait and see who runs it in his Administration. They elected a friggin' billionaire. Who in their right mind thinks that anyone but others like him will rise to formal political power. And who will be added to the ranks of "losers?" Only lobbyists, for they simply won't be needed once the CEO-class Trump installs take the reigns.

Yes, we are a capitalist country, but our government is not supposed to be involved in that grubby enterprise.
By what fantasy should it not? If you are among the folks who provide over half of the money the government spends, would you not expect a commensurate say in how it spends it? You are the government of your household aren't you. Do you let your kids and their friends, the beneficiaries of your efforts, determine how resources are used or not used? I'm sure you do not.

Capitalism and democracy are not the same things. They must in the U.S. coexist, and that means that both are in play all the time. Everyone gets to enjoy and must suffer the pros and cons of each.

They're just reminding some folks who have been too far removed from their reality for too long that -- THEY EXIST. And they want to be heard
Oh, they've been heard alright. Not that they had something worth hearing, but we heard what they had to say. I say give them what they asked for -- our departure -- and let them lie in the bed of fetid mud that remains after the swamp has been drained. I suspect the Trumpkins will build a wall at the mouth of the swamp and pray the rain refills it.

Trumpkins like their simple reasoning. I have some for them: be careful what one demands lest one receive it. The skills, innovations and resources the "Establishment" and "Elites" bring to the table are highly sought everywhere on the planet. There is no need for us to favor the U.S. in choosing where to first deploy them going forward. Truly, I'd happily see the whole of the Fortune 400 and next 999,960 wealthiest Americans take their physical and mental wherewithal and leave.

Maybe then the Trumpkins will forgo their post-truth paradigm and actually start to think comprehensively about what they did to themselves by electing DJT and how to fix it. Maybe they'll teach physics to themselves and become leaders in quantum computing and space exploration? I doubt it, but I say leave them to their own devices so we and they can find out just how well this era of Trump works out for them. They wanted to be heard, well heard they have been. Now it's high time to heed them too.

The big question for me is, will the elites listen, even now?
Listen to what? More lamentations of woe is me? More of Trumpkins blaming everyone but themselves for what they've wrought? Cries of "We didn't think he meant 'that.'"? Cries of "We didn't know 'that' is what would happen?" Why would the people who spent over a year telling folks "that" is exactly what they have to expect from putting that man in office even bother listening any more?

The "Burger King" crowd wanted it their way. Let them have it I say.
You are REALLY sore, aren't you?
I was more expressing the reasoning than saying I support it. I don't believe that Trump or even Jesus himself could "drain the swamp"--even if it IS as bad as certain fevered imaginations believe, which I doubt. And I don't care if people are rich. Fine with me.
The American people bought a bill of goods. I wouldn't take it personal.
Not taking it personally. I just truly thought better of my countrymen. Can't say I've ever been more disappointed by any large group. That's not their fault; it's mine for misconstruing them and giving them credit they deserve not. I won't make the same mistake again.
No, it's not your fault and I feel the same. Yesterday morning at 4:23 a.m. when I turned on the tv and was greeted with the banner "Trump wins 45th President of the U.S." is a moment and a feeling I will never ever forget.
Red:
Ah, but it is. The benefit of the doubt is given not taken. I could have exercised better judgment in giving it. I did not. That's nobody's fault by mine.
 

jwoodie

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The people who think they're ousting the "Establishment" have no clue what it is;
Then they should not have talked about it.

they just object to the "haves" running the whole show.
Well, who the hell else is supposed to do it? Cabals of high school educated Trumpkins. They think the "haves" were running the show before Trump. Just wait and see who runs it in his Administration. They elected a friggin' billionaire. Who in their right mind thinks that anyone but others like him will rise to formal political power. And who will be added to the ranks of "losers?" Only lobbyists, for they simply won't be needed once the CEO-class Trump installs take the reigns.

Yes, we are a capitalist country, but our government is not supposed to be involved in that grubby enterprise.
By what fantasy should it not? If you are among the folks who provide over half of the money the government spends, would you not expect a commensurate say in how it spends it? You are the government of your household aren't you. Do you let your kids and their friends, the beneficiaries of your efforts, determine how resources are used or not used? I'm sure you do not.

Capitalism and democracy are not the same things. They must in the U.S. coexist, and that means that both are in play all the time. Everyone gets to enjoy and must suffer the pros and cons of each.

They're just reminding some folks who have been too far removed from their reality for too long that -- THEY EXIST. And they want to be heard
Oh, they've been heard alright. Not that they had something worth hearing, but we heard what they had to say. I say give them what they asked for -- our departure -- and let them lie in the bed of fetid mud that remains after the swamp has been drained. I suspect the Trumpkins will build a wall at the mouth of the swamp and pray the rain refills it.

Trumpkins like their simple reasoning. I have some for them: be careful what one demands lest one receive it. The skills, innovations and resources the "Establishment" and "Elites" bring to the table are highly sought everywhere on the planet. There is no need for us to favor the U.S. in choosing where to first deploy them going forward. Truly, I'd happily see the whole of the Fortune 400 and next 999,960 wealthiest Americans take their physical and mental wherewithal and leave.

Maybe then the Trumpkins will forgo their post-truth paradigm and actually start to think comprehensively about what they did to themselves by electing DJT and how to fix it. Maybe they'll teach physics to themselves and become leaders in quantum computing and space exploration? I doubt it, but I say leave them to their own devices so we and they can find out just how well this era of Trump works out for them. They wanted to be heard, well heard they have been. Now it's high time to heed them too.

The big question for me is, will the elites listen, even now?
Listen to what? More lamentations of woe is me? More of Trumpkins blaming everyone but themselves for what they've wrought? Cries of "We didn't think he meant 'that.'"? Cries of "We didn't know 'that' is what would happen?" Why would the people who spent over a year telling folks "that" is exactly what they have to expect from putting that man in office even bother listening any more?

The "Burger King" crowd wanted it their way. Let them have it I say.
You are REALLY sore, aren't you?
I was more expressing the reasoning than saying I support it. I don't believe that Trump or even Jesus himself could "drain the swamp"--even if it IS as bad as certain fevered imaginations believe, which I doubt. And I don't care if people are rich. Fine with me.
The American people bought a bill of goods. I wouldn't take it personal.
Not taking it personally. I just truly thought better of my countrymen. Can't say I've ever been more disappointed by any large group. That's not their fault; it's mine for misconstruing them and giving them credit they deserve not. I won't make the same mistake again.
No, it's not your fault and I feel the same. Yesterday morning at 4:23 a.m. when I turned on the tv and was greeted with the banner "Trump wins 45th President of the U.S." is a moment and a feeling I will never ever forget.
Did you feel the same way on 11/5/80? These left-wing histrionics are so tiresome...
 

OldLady

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The people who think they're ousting the "Establishment" have no clue what it is;
Then they should not have talked about it.

they just object to the "haves" running the whole show.
Well, who the hell else is supposed to do it? Cabals of high school educated Trumpkins. They think the "haves" were running the show before Trump. Just wait and see who runs it in his Administration. They elected a friggin' billionaire. Who in their right mind thinks that anyone but others like him will rise to formal political power. And who will be added to the ranks of "losers?" Only lobbyists, for they simply won't be needed once the CEO-class Trump installs take the reigns.

Yes, we are a capitalist country, but our government is not supposed to be involved in that grubby enterprise.
By what fantasy should it not? If you are among the folks who provide over half of the money the government spends, would you not expect a commensurate say in how it spends it? You are the government of your household aren't you. Do you let your kids and their friends, the beneficiaries of your efforts, determine how resources are used or not used? I'm sure you do not.

Capitalism and democracy are not the same things. They must in the U.S. coexist, and that means that both are in play all the time. Everyone gets to enjoy and must suffer the pros and cons of each.

They're just reminding some folks who have been too far removed from their reality for too long that -- THEY EXIST. And they want to be heard
Oh, they've been heard alright. Not that they had something worth hearing, but we heard what they had to say. I say give them what they asked for -- our departure -- and let them lie in the bed of fetid mud that remains after the swamp has been drained. I suspect the Trumpkins will build a wall at the mouth of the swamp and pray the rain refills it.

Trumpkins like their simple reasoning. I have some for them: be careful what one demands lest one receive it. The skills, innovations and resources the "Establishment" and "Elites" bring to the table are highly sought everywhere on the planet. There is no need for us to favor the U.S. in choosing where to first deploy them going forward. Truly, I'd happily see the whole of the Fortune 400 and next 999,960 wealthiest Americans take their physical and mental wherewithal and leave.

Maybe then the Trumpkins will forgo their post-truth paradigm and actually start to think comprehensively about what they did to themselves by electing DJT and how to fix it. Maybe they'll teach physics to themselves and become leaders in quantum computing and space exploration? I doubt it, but I say leave them to their own devices so we and they can find out just how well this era of Trump works out for them. They wanted to be heard, well heard they have been. Now it's high time to heed them too.

The big question for me is, will the elites listen, even now?
Listen to what? More lamentations of woe is me? More of Trumpkins blaming everyone but themselves for what they've wrought? Cries of "We didn't think he meant 'that.'"? Cries of "We didn't know 'that' is what would happen?" Why would the people who spent over a year telling folks "that" is exactly what they have to expect from putting that man in office even bother listening any more?

The "Burger King" crowd wanted it their way. Let them have it I say.
You are REALLY sore, aren't you?
I was more expressing the reasoning than saying I support it. I don't believe that Trump or even Jesus himself could "drain the swamp"--even if it IS as bad as certain fevered imaginations believe, which I doubt. And I don't care if people are rich. Fine with me.
The American people bought a bill of goods. I wouldn't take it personal.
Not taking it personally. I just truly thought better of my countrymen. Can't say I've ever been more disappointed by any large group. That's not their fault; it's mine for misconstruing them and giving them credit they deserve not. I won't make the same mistake again.
No, it's not your fault and I feel the same. Yesterday morning at 4:23 a.m. when I turned on the tv and was greeted with the banner "Trump wins 45th President of the U.S." is a moment and a feeling I will never ever forget.
Did you feel the same way on 11/5/80? These left-wing histrionics are so tiresome...
Never, ever, have I been so deeply disappointed and actually sick at heart over an election result. EVER. Since I wasn't speaking to you, I won't apologize for my feelings.
 

jwoodie

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Then they should not have talked about it.

Well, who the hell else is supposed to do it? Cabals of high school educated Trumpkins. They think the "haves" were running the show before Trump. Just wait and see who runs it in his Administration. They elected a friggin' billionaire. Who in their right mind thinks that anyone but others like him will rise to formal political power. And who will be added to the ranks of "losers?" Only lobbyists, for they simply won't be needed once the CEO-class Trump installs take the reigns.

By what fantasy should it not? If you are among the folks who provide over half of the money the government spends, would you not expect a commensurate say in how it spends it? You are the government of your household aren't you. Do you let your kids and their friends, the beneficiaries of your efforts, determine how resources are used or not used? I'm sure you do not.

Capitalism and democracy are not the same things. They must in the U.S. coexist, and that means that both are in play all the time. Everyone gets to enjoy and must suffer the pros and cons of each.

Oh, they've been heard alright. Not that they had something worth hearing, but we heard what they had to say. I say give them what they asked for -- our departure -- and let them lie in the bed of fetid mud that remains after the swamp has been drained. I suspect the Trumpkins will build a wall at the mouth of the swamp and pray the rain refills it.

Trumpkins like their simple reasoning. I have some for them: be careful what one demands lest one receive it. The skills, innovations and resources the "Establishment" and "Elites" bring to the table are highly sought everywhere on the planet. There is no need for us to favor the U.S. in choosing where to first deploy them going forward. Truly, I'd happily see the whole of the Fortune 400 and next 999,960 wealthiest Americans take their physical and mental wherewithal and leave.

Maybe then the Trumpkins will forgo their post-truth paradigm and actually start to think comprehensively about what they did to themselves by electing DJT and how to fix it. Maybe they'll teach physics to themselves and become leaders in quantum computing and space exploration? I doubt it, but I say leave them to their own devices so we and they can find out just how well this era of Trump works out for them. They wanted to be heard, well heard they have been. Now it's high time to heed them too.

Listen to what? More lamentations of woe is me? More of Trumpkins blaming everyone but themselves for what they've wrought? Cries of "We didn't think he meant 'that.'"? Cries of "We didn't know 'that' is what would happen?" Why would the people who spent over a year telling folks "that" is exactly what they have to expect from putting that man in office even bother listening any more?

The "Burger King" crowd wanted it their way. Let them have it I say.
You are REALLY sore, aren't you?
I was more expressing the reasoning than saying I support it. I don't believe that Trump or even Jesus himself could "drain the swamp"--even if it IS as bad as certain fevered imaginations believe, which I doubt. And I don't care if people are rich. Fine with me.
The American people bought a bill of goods. I wouldn't take it personal.
Not taking it personally. I just truly thought better of my countrymen. Can't say I've ever been more disappointed by any large group. That's not their fault; it's mine for misconstruing them and giving them credit they deserve not. I won't make the same mistake again.
No, it's not your fault and I feel the same. Yesterday morning at 4:23 a.m. when I turned on the tv and was greeted with the banner "Trump wins 45th President of the U.S." is a moment and a feeling I will never ever forget.
Did you feel the same way on 11/5/80? These left-wing histrionics are so tiresome...
Never, ever, have I been so deeply disappointed and actually sick at heart over an election result. EVER. Since I wasn't speaking to you, I won't apologize for my feelings.
Therapy may help. What EXACTLY are you afraid of, other than talking with people who do not share your political orthodoxy?
 

OldLady

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You are REALLY sore, aren't you?
I was more expressing the reasoning than saying I support it. I don't believe that Trump or even Jesus himself could "drain the swamp"--even if it IS as bad as certain fevered imaginations believe, which I doubt. And I don't care if people are rich. Fine with me.
The American people bought a bill of goods. I wouldn't take it personal.
Not taking it personally. I just truly thought better of my countrymen. Can't say I've ever been more disappointed by any large group. That's not their fault; it's mine for misconstruing them and giving them credit they deserve not. I won't make the same mistake again.
No, it's not your fault and I feel the same. Yesterday morning at 4:23 a.m. when I turned on the tv and was greeted with the banner "Trump wins 45th President of the U.S." is a moment and a feeling I will never ever forget.
Did you feel the same way on 11/5/80? These left-wing histrionics are so tiresome...
Never, ever, have I been so deeply disappointed and actually sick at heart over an election result. EVER. Since I wasn't speaking to you, I won't apologize for my feelings.
Therapy may help. What EXACTLY are you afraid of, other than talking with people who do not share your political orthodoxy?
I haven't got an orthodoxy, Mr. Buttinski, now leave it alone.
 

JoeMoma

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JoeMoma, TY for the rating. I appreciate it. I'm curious, however, to know what part of it struck you as humorous?
Oops, the rating was an accident. I often read/scroll through the threads using my iPad. Once in a while I will press one of the rating buttons accidentally as I'm scrolling through. Usually I will catch it an do a quick undo.
 

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