Obama's new Ukrainian government shows their colors:Beat TV chief and make him resign

[TakeAStepBack]

So that means all Ukrainians hate Jews. Even the Jewish Ukrainians! Dismissed. This is completely off topic now.

 

[Camp]

What point are we supposed to be getting here? You've got members of some far right Ukrainian political org incensed at a TV station broadcasting, presumably without condemndation, scenes of Putin annexing the Crimea. They accuse the station head of basically collaborating with the Russians.
OK, Bad reaction. Over-reaction. I can live with that. But to extrapolate that means the Ukrainians in charge are thugs is simply out of touch with reality.

You do realize that svoboda detest jews, germans and essentially anyone else not deemed All-Ukrainian, right?
Does that sort of thinking remind you of any potential historical events that may be best not repeated?

That is like taking the most exsteme elements of the rw and labeling the Republican Party or conservatives with that broad brush. And just because the nationalist want their nation ruled by traditional Ukrainians with traditional Ukrainian values doesn't mean they hate other people or wish other people ill will. They just don't want others ruling over them. We are being shown only one segment and side of the nationalist. The Russians are using it to the max for propaganda purposes. Whether by foolishness or on purpose, Putin supporters over here are helping to spread the disinformation.

 

[Decus]

All Ukrainians detest Jews. It's in their mother's milk. I'm not arguing these guys are boy scouts. But when you get a broad based movement like this you get everyone who wants the present government out. And that can iinclude some pretty unsavory people. Yanukovich was not exactly a nice upright fellow himself.

Nonsense. You didn't have to go full Jew victim-hood on it. There have been Jewish roots in the country forever.

You realize that was a non sequitur, right?
The Ukrainians were enthusiastic supporters of the Final Solution, turning in Jews right and left during the occupation. Ukrainians actively participated in massacres against Jews.
I have spoken with elderly Ukrainian Jews and every one of them tells me the Ukrainians were jew haters, almost as bad as the Polish. Maybe worse.

Don't you mean the French?

 

[The Rabbi]

So that means all Ukrainians hate Jews. Even the Jewish Ukrainians! Dismissed. This is completely off topic now.

Reductio ad absurdum fallacy noted.
I'll have to amend my sig line now to include narco-losertarians.
Rabbi Rules!

 

[The Rabbi]

Nonsense. You didn't have to go full Jew victim-hood on it. There have been Jewish roots in the country forever.

You realize that was a non sequitur, right?
The Ukrainians were enthusiastic supporters of the Final Solution, turning in Jews right and left during the occupation. Ukrainians actively participated in massacres against Jews.
I have spoken with elderly Ukrainian Jews and every one of them tells me the Ukrainians were jew haters, almost as bad as the Polish. Maybe worse.

Don't you mean the French?

No. The french could be pretty bad, look at Klaus Barbie. But nothng compared to Ukrainians, Croatians and Poles.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

So that means all Ukrainians hate Jews. Even the Jewish Ukrainians! Dismissed. This is completely off topic now.

Reductio ad absurdum fallacy noted.
I'll have to amend my sig line now to include narco-losertarians.
Rabbi Rules!

hardly, fella. I suggest you take a good, long, hard look at what you posted.
"All Ukrainians hate Jews. It's in their mother's milk."

Meanwhile in reality, there are Ukrainian Jews.

Absurd. I agree.

 

[The Rabbi]

So that means all Ukrainians hate Jews. Even the Jewish Ukrainians! Dismissed. This is completely off topic now.

Reductio ad absurdum fallacy noted.
I'll have to amend my sig line now to include narco-losertarians.
Rabbi Rules!

hardly, fella. I suggest you take a good, long, hard look at what you posted.
"All Ukrainians hate Jews. It's in their mother's milk."

Meanwhile in reality, there are Ukrainian Jews.

Absurd. I agree.

Your post is absurd. Ukrainian Jews are Jews, not Ukrainians. Ask any Ukrainian.
I am sure there are Ukrainians who are not anti semites. I might have seen both of them on TV once.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I should have known better. it's always full-on victimhood if you mention the Jews. Jeebus.

 

[Decus]

You realize that was a non sequitur, right?
The Ukrainians were enthusiastic supporters of the Final Solution, turning in Jews right and left during the occupation. Ukrainians actively participated in massacres against Jews.
I have spoken with elderly Ukrainian Jews and every one of them tells me the Ukrainians were jew haters, almost as bad as the Polish. Maybe worse.

Don't you mean the French?

No. The french could be pretty bad, look at Klaus Barbie. But nothng compared to Ukrainians, Croatians and Poles.

Seems we have a different understanding of events, especially where Poles are concerned:

"Some estimates put the number of Poles involved in rescue at up to 3 million, and credit Poles with saving up to around 450,000 Jews from certain death.[2] The rescue efforts were aided by one of the largest anti-Nazi resistance movements in Europe, the Polish Underground State and its military arm, the Armia Krajowa. Supported by the Polish government in exile, these organizations operated special units dedicated to helping Jews; of those, the most notable was Żegota."

"Polish citizens were hampered by the most extreme conditions in all of German-occupied Europe. Nazi-occupied Poland was the only territory where the Germans decreed that any kind of help for Jews was punishable by death for the helper and his entire family. Of the estimated 3 million non-Jewish Poles killed in World War II, up to 50,000 were executed by Nazi Germany solely as a penalty for saving Jews.[2] After the War most of this information was suppressed by the Soviet-backed regime in an attempt to discredit Polish prewar society and government as reactionary.[3]"

Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Reductio ad absurdum fallacy noted.
I'll have to amend my sig line now to include narco-losertarians.
Rabbi Rules!

hardly, fella. I suggest you take a good, long, hard look at what you posted.
"All Ukrainians hate Jews. It's in their mother's milk."

Meanwhile in reality, there are Ukrainian Jews.

Absurd. I agree.

Your post is absurd. Ukrainian Jews are Jews, not Ukrainians. Ask any Ukrainian.
I am sure there are Ukrainians who are not anti semites. I might have seen both of them on TV once.

Ukrainian Jewish leaders blame Russia for anti-Semitic ?provocations? | JPost | Israel News

An attack on a Ukrainian rabbi over the weekend was a provocation, intended as a “justification for the continuation of Russian aggression” in Crimea, one Ukrainian Jewish leader asserted on Saturday.

Ukrainian Jewish Leader???

 

[The Rabbi]

Don't you mean the French?

No. The french could be pretty bad, look at Klaus Barbie. But nothng compared to Ukrainians, Croatians and Poles.

Seems we have a different understanding of events, especially where Poles are concerned:

"Some estimates put the number of Poles involved in rescue at up to 3 million, and credit Poles with saving up to around 450,000 Jews from certain death.[2] The rescue efforts were aided by one of the largest anti-Nazi resistance movements in Europe, the Polish Underground State and its military arm, the Armia Krajowa. Supported by the Polish government in exile, these organizations operated special units dedicated to helping Jews; of those, the most notable was Żegota."

"Polish citizens were hampered by the most extreme conditions in all of German-occupied Europe. Nazi-occupied Poland was the only territory where the Germans decreed that any kind of help for Jews was punishable by death for the helper and his entire family. Of the estimated 3 million non-Jewish Poles killed in World War II, up to 50,000 were executed by Nazi Germany solely as a penalty for saving Jews.[2] After the War most of this information was suppressed by the Soviet-backed regime in an attempt to discredit Polish prewar society and government as reactionary.[3]"

Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.

Yawn. A little knowledge is an absurd thing.
BOOK REVIEW: POLAND’S HOLOCAUST, TADEUSZ PIOTROWSKI

 

[Camp]

"There haven't been any anti-semitic attacks, not from Ukraine nationalist" Rabbi Yaakov Dov Bleik
"Bleik, largly considered the countries chief Rabbi (there are three others who claim the title) live in Kiev which has a Jewish population of some 65,000." TIMES OF ISRAEL MARCH 20, 2014

"I don't see any signs of anti-semitism in Ukraine; the only threat for the jews of Ukraine is coming from Russia" said Arseniy Finberg. TIMES OF ISRAEL MARCH 20, 2014

 

[BDBoop]

Obama is responsible for another government?

 

[tinydancer]

What point are we supposed to be getting here? You've got members of some far right Ukrainian political org incensed at a TV station broadcasting, presumably without condemndation, scenes of Putin annexing the Crimea. They accuse the station head of basically collaborating with the Russians.
OK, Bad reaction. Over-reaction. I can live with that. But to extrapolate that means the Ukrainians in charge are thugs is simply out of touch with reality.

You do realize that svoboda detest jews, germans and essentially anyone else not deemed All-Ukrainian, right?
Does that sort of thinking remind you of any potential historical events that may be best not repeated?

All Ukrainians detest Jews. It's in their mother's milk. I'm not arguing these guys are boy scouts. But when you get a broad based movement like this you get everyone who wants the present government out. And that can iinclude some pretty unsavory people. Yanukovich was not exactly a nice upright fellow himself.

The problem is that it wasn't a broad based movement. What started out as small protests last November was taken over by the Right Sector and Svoboda and driven to the violent overthrow of and you must remember this, the duly elected government of the Ukraine.

Some didn't like the President's pro Russia stance in the end. But he was elected based on being open to offers from the EU and Russia.

Russia came up with a super sweet financial deal to bail out the Ukraine. The EU didn't come close. Sio consequently the President chose the Russian deal.

Now just because some in the country didn't like the choice gives them the right to violently overthrow the government?

How many people hate Obamacare? But does that give any group of Americans the right to violently overthrow the government? No it doesn't. You do it at the ballot box.

AND what has not been publicized to any degree in the west is the fact that in mid February the President signed an agreement forged by the EU and Russia promising a referendum on EU vs Russia and new elections to be held as quickly as possible.

The opposition parties refused and kept on rioting because they wanted to overthrow the government and here's the kicker seize power.

And they have seized power haven't they now?

 

[tinydancer]

Obama is responsible for another government?

Damn straight when he is backing the coup. Same with my PM who I am royally pissed off with for backing these goons.

They own this. Just like the morons in the west who backed the Muslim Brotherhood and then turned around and freaking backed the militias in Libya which has now turned into a dogs breakfast and last but not least before the Ukraine these fools called our leaders were backing paid mercenaries errrrrrrrrrrrr "rebels" in Syria till the true story got out that these so called freedom fighters were paid from different countries and AQ was thick as thieves trying to overthrow Assad.

You bet they own this bullshit. And this is a serious bi partisan rant BD. I've been a supporter of the conservative government up here for years and years. And right now I am spitting bullets and this dog and pony show going on.

 

[Decus]

There is a real problem facing Judaism. The threat is called assimilation. Assimilation is when people of Jewish heritage no longer identify themselves as being Jewish. This threat has been discussed for years in Jewish circles, with no way of really addressing the problem.

To date the approach continues to be the message that Jews are under threat and that there is a need to remain united. For the message to be effective the enemy has to be ever present. History is used to reinforce the message and there is no room amidst the horrors of the Holocaust to make too much noise about the many positive efforts undertaken by many non-Jews.

Sadly many in the Jewish community cling to the theme that everyone is suspect.

.

 

[bripat9643]

Told you so for days on end on what bad actors our leaders were backing.

And so you see it is no stretch to see how Svoboda intimidated others to vote for the impeachment of the former President. And who wanted to strip Crimeans of their autonomy.

Man oh man, I can't wait to send this to all those in my government that supported this coup by these goons.

Sit down, you animal': Angry far-right politicians attack Ukraine TV chief and force him to write his own resignation letter

It's a state owned television channel. What does free speech have to do with who runs it? The government determines that, and the new government had every right to can the guy. He was obviously just a party apparatchik of the previous government. Getting rid of him was no different that getting Nazis out of German state controlled radio stations at the end of the WW II. Do you think the U.S attacked "freedom of speech" when it did that?

 

[tinydancer]

"There haven't been any anti-semitic attacks, not from Ukraine nationalist" Rabbi Yaakov Dov Bleik
"Bleik, largly considered the countries chief Rabbi (there are three others who claim the title) live in Kiev which has a Jewish population of some 65,000." TIMES OF ISRAEL MARCH 20, 2014

"I don't see any signs of anti-semitism in Ukraine; the only threat for the jews of Ukraine is coming from Russia" said Arseniy Finberg. TIMES OF ISRAEL MARCH 20, 2014

No offense but I do believe some people are turning a blind eye. I can counter with a quizzillion differing opinions.

But that is not the issue. The fact that the leader of Svoboda was originally thrown out of one party for his horrible anti semitic remarks stand. And his continuing anti Jew stance with his party remains out in the open for all to see.

Here's an article from BBC. Note that the year is 2012. Long before the coup. So no one can claim that this is Russian propaganda.

Svoboda's policies in the past have been openly racist and anti-Semitic, and though they have softened their rhetoric somewhat for this campaign, they have promised to shake up the country's political status quo.

BBC News - Ukraine election: President Yanukovych party claims win

The open letter (2005)

Title - Stop the Criminal Activities of Organised Jewry

Signed by Tyahnybok and 17 others

Lists Jewish businessmen, who got rich in the 1990s, and claims they control Ukrainian media

Describes Zionism as "Jewish Nazism" and warns of "genocide" through the impoverishment of Ukrainians

Demands investigation into the activities of Jewish organisations headed by people "suspected of serious crimes"

BBC News - Svoboda: The rise of Ukraine's ultra-nationalists

 

[tinydancer]

Told you so for days on end on what bad actors our leaders were backing.

And so you see it is no stretch to see how Svoboda intimidated others to vote for the impeachment of the former President. And who wanted to strip Crimeans of their autonomy.

Man oh man, I can't wait to send this to all those in my government that supported this coup by these goons.

Sit down, you animal': Angry far-right politicians attack Ukraine TV chief and force him to write his own resignation letter

It's a state owned television channel. What does free speech have to do with who runs it? The government determines that, and the new government had every right to can the guy. He was obviously just a party apparatchik of the previous government. Getting rid of him was no different that getting Nazis out of German state controlled radio stations at the end of the WW II. Do you think the U.S attacked "freedom of speech" when it did that?

They beat him up. Hey if you are cool with that, who can counter you being ok with some one being beaten up and forced to resign.

BTW the individuals involved if you actually read the links had no power to remove him from his position. You are saying they had every right to can him. Go ahead find a who authorized the beating for the resignation? You won't be able to. These dudes in Svoboda are renegades. No one ordered them to do this.

This was plain old thuggery. Svoboda are goons.

 

[bripat9643]

Told you so for days on end on what bad actors our leaders were backing.

And so you see it is no stretch to see how Svoboda intimidated others to vote for the impeachment of the former President. And who wanted to strip Crimeans of their autonomy.

Man oh man, I can't wait to send this to all those in my government that supported this coup by these goons.

Sit down, you animal': Angry far-right politicians attack Ukraine TV chief and force him to write his own resignation letter

It's a state owned television channel. What does free speech have to do with who runs it? The government determines that, and the new government had every right to can the guy. He was obviously just a party apparatchik of the previous government. Getting rid of him was no different that getting Nazis out of German state controlled radio stations at the end of the WW II. Do you think the U.S attacked "freedom of speech" when it did that?

They beat him up. Hey if you are cool with that, who can counter you being ok with some one being beaten up and forced to resign.

BTW the individuals involved if you actually read the links had no power to remove him from his position. You are saying they had every right to can him. Go ahead find a who authorized the beating for the resignation? You won't be able to. These dudes in Svoboda are renegades. No one ordered them to do this.

This was plain old thuggery. Svoboda are goons.

I guarantee you that plenty of Nazis got beaten up by U.S. troops at the end of the war. A lot of them were summarily executed. Emotions often run high when a government is defeated. I have no problem with him being forced to resign. I'd like to see 90% of the bureaucrats in Washington forced to resign.