Obama's Labor Secretary: Illegal Aliens Have a ‘Right to a Legal Wage’

[Flopper]

I suppose the citizenship for children could be negotiable, but I still think only children of citizens should be eligible for automatic citizenship.

It shouldn't matter whether you are born in the US or Timbuktu, citizenship should be earned. Citizenship is precious. Our forefathers fought and died so that we might have the rights and privileges of that citizenship. I say it is to precious to be given away or inherited by accident of birth.

 

[Unkotare]

I suppose the citizenship for children could be negotiable, but I still think only children of citizens should be eligible for automatic citizenship.

It shouldn't matter whether you are born in the US or Timbuktu, citizenship should be earned. Citizenship is precious. Our forefathers fought and died so that we might have the rights and privileges of that citizenship. I say it is to precious to be given away or inherited by accident of birth.

Do you realize what you are saying?

 

[Flopper]

I suppose the citizenship for children could be negotiable, but I still think only children of citizens should be eligible for automatic citizenship.

It shouldn't matter whether you are born in the US or Timbuktu, citizenship should be earned. Citizenship is precious. Our forefathers fought and died so that we might have the rights and privileges of that citizenship. I say it is to precious to be given away or inherited by accident of birth.

Do you realize what you are saying?

I think so.
Why shouldn't we have the same requirements for citizenship for someone born in the US as someone who legally immigrates. Until a person can demonstrate knowledge of our language, history, and responsibilities and rights of citizenship, they should not be a citizen, a legal resident, yes but not a citizen.

 

[Unkotare]

You really haven't thought this through.

 

[Flopper]

You really haven't thought this through.

Please explain

 

[Unkotare]

People who come here from other countries are already citizens of those other countries. Your idea would create millions and millions of stateless persons, non-citizens. And what would you do with those born here who cannot, do not, or will not pass your test? Send them 'home'? Talk about creating an underclsass, talk about disenfranchisement, talk about a legal and Constitutional nightmare. It would not only be impossible, it would be a very, very bad idea.

Let's just control our borders and enforce the laws we have now instead of mucking with the Constitution or dreaming up cockeyed schemes.

 

[saveliberty]

Gee flopper, I guess he really explained it huh? (four times?)

 

[saveliberty]

We have a process for citizenship already. What we have is a group who feels entitled to come here without regard to law, citizens of the host country and for the express prupose of self interests. Hang them from crosses at the border. Worked pretty well in Rome.

 

[Flopper]

Gee flopper, I guess he really explained it huh? (four times?)

Maybe I’m being a bit too idealist, but I think citizenship should be a privilege that people value. For millions who waited years to immigrate to this country and have gone through the immigrations and naturalization process, it is a great privilege. I talked with a young man who emigrated from Rwanda. He was so proud of his US citizenship. He went down to register to vote the day after he received his citizenship papers. By contrast, a few years ago I ask my nephew, who had just reach voting age if he had registered to vote. He said he wasn’t interested in politics and didn’t care who ran the government. My 8th grade granddaughter doesn’t even know she’s a US citizen. We sacrifice nothing for our citizenship and for too people, that is exactly what it’s worth to them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

People who come here from other countries are already citizens of those other countries. Your idea would create millions and millions of stateless persons, non-citizens. And what would you do with those born here who cannot, do not, or will not pass your test? Send them 'home'? Talk about creating an underclsass, talk about disenfranchisement, talk about a legal and Constitutional nightmare. It would not only be impossible, it would be a very, very bad idea.

Let's just control our borders and enforce the laws we have now instead of mucking with the Constitution or dreaming up cockeyed schemes.

As much as I hate it when my husband says this phrase, Robert Heinlein wrote about this. He envisioned a state where everyone was a legal resident, with certain inherent rights under the law, but full citizenship (defined as the right to vote and the right to hold public office) was earned through - in his story, at least - military service.

As it happens, it wouldn't be all that big a "Constitutional nightmare", considering that we actually started out with a system that gave legal rights and protections to everyone (except slaves), but only granted voting privileges to property owners. So it's not unprecedented for the United States to require some real involvement in the system in order to participate in it.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

No, it's against the law for illegal aliens to work in the U.S.A.

Its also against the law to work people and not pay them.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I suppose the citizenship for children could be negotiable, but I still think only children of citizens should be eligible for automatic citizenship.

It shouldn't matter whether you are born in the US or Timbuktu, citizenship should be earned. Citizenship is precious. Our forefathers fought and died so that we might have the rights and privileges of that citizenship. I say it is to precious to be given away or inherited by accident of birth.

I didn't have to earn mine. I got it just by being born here, by an "accident of birth", as you would call it.


What about you?

 

[Unkotare]

People who come here from other countries are already citizens of those other countries. Your idea would create millions and millions of stateless persons, non-citizens. And what would you do with those born here who cannot, do not, or will not pass your test? Send them 'home'? Talk about creating an underclsass, talk about disenfranchisement, talk about a legal and Constitutional nightmare. It would not only be impossible, it would be a very, very bad idea.

Let's just control our borders and enforce the laws we have now instead of mucking with the Constitution or dreaming up cockeyed schemes.

As much as I hate it when my husband says this phrase, Robert Heinlein wrote about this. He envisioned a state where everyone was a legal resident, with certain inherent rights under the law, but full citizenship (defined as the right to vote and the right to hold public office) was earned through - in his story, at least - military service.

As it happens, it wouldn't be all that big a "Constitutional nightmare", considering that we actually started out with a system that gave legal rights and protections to everyone (except slaves), but only granted voting privileges to property owners. So it's not unprecedented for the United States to require some real involvement in the system in order to participate in it.

Once AGAIN, this is an emotional position. You haven't considered what it would really mean.

 

[editec]

The hatred that some folks have for illegals evaporates the moment they realize they can make money hiring them for less money.

It is precisely THOSE people who entice illegals to come here in the first place.

It is THOSE Americans who hire illegals that we need to jettison from this society.

Do that and the illegals they hire will fund their own return to wherever they came from.

 

[BoycottTheday]

All this got me to re-read the 14th, is it me or does Obama have some issues regarding section 3, feel free to correct me if im wrong.

Section 3.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice
President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state,
who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the
United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of
any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection
or rebellion against the same,

or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.

But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

No, it's against the law for illegal aliens to work in the U.S.A. The Obama administration is openly disobeying our countries laws!

That’s a profoundly ignorant statement, and of course not true.

Of course it's illegal for them to be here but are you saying an illegal alien can be prosecuted for holding a job in the US in addition to being here?

No, holding employment in of itself is not a criminal act.

Indeed, the Labor Secretary’s statement merely comports with Federal law. As the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals recently noted in US v. Arizona:

We therefore conclude that the text of 8 U.S.C. § 1324a,
combined with legislative history demonstrating Congress’
affirmative choice not to criminalize work as a method of discouraging unauthorized immigrant employment…

In the context of unauthorized immigrant employment,
Congress has deliberately crafted a very particular calibration
of force which does not include the criminalization of work.

http://sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Opbelow_Arizona.pdf

Immigration law with regard to employment concerns itself with falsifying records to gain employment and employers’ hiring of undocumented workers, but it was never Congress’ intent to criminalize actual employment.

They don't HAVE any labor rights, because they're NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE WORKING.

This administation is OUT OF CONTROL.

Typical. This Administration has no respect for the law.

Illegal alliens have no rights in the work place or any where else in this country. The only right they have is the right to leave.

Yet more ignorance and hate from the right.

Conservatives are, as usual, wrong:

Workers' Rights Handbook

 

[editec]

Carby... both the ones doing the employing and the illegals themselves are problems... it is not a one way street

And how does letting employers violate labor laws because the person they hired turns out to be illegal help?

Carby.... labor laws are and should be about the legal citizens and visitors to the US... the crime is harboring or hiring these illegal criminal aliens and the illegal criminal aliens being here to begin with

So you go hard after the businesses for hiring them... and not spending government resources worrying about how much they are getting paid and still leaving the illegal criminal aliens here....

Jeez.. you are fucking dense.. even for a liberal

I think you miss the point here IF you're seeking to get ILLEGALS out of this nation.

When the government discovers an industry that is hiring illegals AND paying them less than the prevailing wages then the government ough to be able to charge them with TWO CRIMES.

The first crime was obviously hiring them.

The second crime was EXPLOITING THEIR illegal status so they could pay them less.

I have trouble understanding how some of you are missing this.

IF you want illegals OUT, then this is a GOOD policy, not a bad one.

 

[BoycottTheday]

[

I have trouble understanding how some of you are missing this.

I

I understand it,

why would someone who comes here illegally expect to be treated otherwise.

Many gangs refer to illegals as their "ATMs" and rob them blind.

Business people abuse them for the low wages they take.

Yet they come anyways, sad story all around.

Doesnt mean that allowing anyone to come here to be victims is a good idea in the first place.

Talk about over population being a problem how many people can this place sustain?

Should the whole world be allowed to sneak in?

 

[chikenwing]

Yes, there are laws against illegal workers of all kinds, but "freedom loving " Pubs won't pass laws for good work ID cards- that would be COMMUNIST- so they coincidentally keep the cheap labor, etc. that prevents a modern country.
The USA is the only modern country in the world where full time workers live in poverty and have no health care (500k bankruptcies a year, most HAVE insurance - crap insurance!)After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison. And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?

Leave it sucks so much!!

It's touching how you pubs just love your illegal aliens totally discriminated against, real low wages, no rights


Then you have this bit of clear rational thinking!!! its the real world get used to it

 

[Flopper]

People who come here from other countries are already citizens of those other countries. Your idea would create millions and millions of stateless persons, non-citizens. And what would you do with those born here who cannot, do not, or will not pass your test? Send them 'home'? Talk about creating an underclsass, talk about disenfranchisement, talk about a legal and Constitutional nightmare. It would not only be impossible, it would be a very, very bad idea.

Let's just control our borders and enforce the laws we have now instead of mucking with the Constitution or dreaming up cockeyed schemes.

As much as I hate it when my husband says this phrase, Robert Heinlein wrote about this. He envisioned a state where everyone was a legal resident, with certain inherent rights under the law, but full citizenship (defined as the right to vote and the right to hold public office) was earned through - in his story, at least - military service.

As it happens, it wouldn't be all that big a "Constitutional nightmare", considering that we actually started out with a system that gave legal rights and protections to everyone (except slaves), but only granted voting privileges to property owners. So it's not unprecedented for the United States to require some real involvement in the system in order to participate in it.

I think I read the same book but I can't remember the name.