Obama's ideal of racial relations

[ReillyT]

Now remind me again why Trent Lott was hounded out of a position of power?

Actually, for my interpretation of the Lott affair based upon facts as I suppose you understand them, see posts 43, 125, and 132 of the other Obama thread. How many times must you continue to bring up this issue that I have already addressed (3 times)? Diversion???

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Actually, for my interpretation of the Lott affair based upon facts as I suppose you understand them, see posts 43, 125, and 132 of the other Obama thread. How many times must you continue to bring up this issue that I have already addressed (3 times)? Diversion???

You never have, all you have ever said is " gee blacks get to be racist and whites don't" And " I have no recollection of that woman, err I mean Trent Lott"

 

[ReillyT]

It is the issue. Cone is a racist, you tried unsuccessfully to claim a single statement of his was "misrepresented" and taken out of context. When provided just one more small example YOU have now tried to change the subject.

Change the subject... like to Trent Lott. The quote that jreeves and I was not misrepresented. I discussed it. Just go up a few posts.

The statement that you brought up I call into question. I think that might be taken out of context. However, acting upon the assumption that it is accurate, I have endeavored to get back to the issue (as you requested) and provided my response to the original issue of the thread. How is the changing the subject?

Silly man.

Trent Lott has everything to do with it. Not only did he NOT spend 20 YEARS as a close personal friend of Thurmonds, he did not ever claim he was his mentor nor his religious leader. He also never, to my knowledge, wrote at least one book based on Thurmonds beliefs and teachings. Yet because he said a nice thing about his run for the Presidency years before he was branded a racist and driven from a position of power and attempts were made to have him resign or booted from the Senate.

See aforemention posts 45, 125 and 132 of the other thread. Of course, I am not sure your description of the facts is perfectly accurate, but acting upon the assumption that it is, any of these three posts establish my position. However, it is still a diversion.

 

[ReillyT]

You never have, all you have ever said is " gee blacks get to be racist and whites don't" And " I have no recollection of that woman, err I mean Trent Lott"

You really don't know what a descriptive versus a normative point is do you?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Change the subject... like to Trent Lott. The quote that jreeves and I was not misrepresented. I discussed it. Just go up a few posts.

The statement that you brought up I call into question. I think that might be taken out of context. However, acting upon the assumption that it is accurate, I have endeavored to get back to the issue (as you requested) and provided my response to the original issue of the thread. How is the changing the subject?

Silly man.




See aforemention posts 45, 125 and 132 of the other thread. Of course, I am not sure your description of the facts is perfectly accurate, but acting upon the assumption that it is, any of these three posts establish my position. However, it is still a diversion.

Sure thing. You will note that Cone's other comments are in fact referenced by page number of his book? But do pretend otherwise.

It is simple , really, If the left can claim Trent Lott a racist for a simple retirement feel good comment, then they should have no trouble understanding that Obama is a racist for his personal friendship, declaring Wright his Mentor, writing books about him and his religious beliefs.

But I realize faced with such an overwhelming amount of REAL evidence you might want to avoid that comparison.

 

[ReillyT]

Yet because he said a nice thing about his run for the Presidency years before he was branded a racist and driven from a position of power and attempts were made to have him resign or booted from the Senate.

1. Trent Lott said "When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We’re proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over the years, either."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Lott


2. Strom Thurmond ran for President in 1948 as a Dixiecrat opposing desegration. During the election, he said in a speech:

“I wanna tell you, ladies and gentlemen, that there's not enough troops in the army to force the Southern people to break down segregation and admit the nigra race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes, and into our churches."

He continued to oppose desegregation and conducted the longest filibuster ever by a U.S. Senator in opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1957

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strom_Thurmond

I fail to see how this analogous to Obama.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

1. Trent Lott said "When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We’re proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over the years, either."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_Lott


2. Strom Thurmond ran for President in 1948 as a Dixiecrat opposing desegration. During the election, he said in a speech:

“I wanna tell you, ladies and gentlemen, that there's not enough troops in the army to force the Southern people to break down segregation and admit the nigra race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes, and into our churches."

He continued to oppose desegregation and conducted the longest filibuster ever by a U.S. Senator in opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1957

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strom_Thurmond

I fail to see how this analogous to Obama.

Cause you are either ignorant or purposefully not telling the truth.

 

[ReillyT]

Cause you are either ignorant or purposefully not telling the truth.

Trent Lott said the country would be a better place if the segregationist candidate (that was essentially the platform for the campaign by the way) had won the election in 1948.

Obama didn't say anything, except that he disagreed with and disavowed inflammatory remarks his pastor made.

How is this analogous?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Trent Lott said the country would be a better place if the segregationist candidate (that was essentially the platform for the campaign by the way) had won the election in 1948.

Obama didn't say anything, except that he disagreed with and disavowed inflammatory remarks his pastor made.

How is this analogous?

Sure thing.

 

[ReillyT]

Sure thing.

We can just agree to disagree RGS. Still got nothing but love for ya. Have a nice day.

 

[jreeves]

Actually, he didn't say whites at all. Here is his quote:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright_sermon_controversy

But you already knew that, didn't you?



Proof of what? If you are referring to whether the US government invented the HIV virus, that would be one of the statements that I disagree with.



You changed the goal posts? Now inflammatory is the standard you want to use?

Okay, that statement is inflammatory. Is it hateful? I guess one could say that it is hateful against the US government, but I tend to think of it as angry.

Stereotyping? I guess he stereotypes all governments as lying entities... but that is also perfectly true.



I think Allie says crazy shit all the time, but I rarely attribute her craziness to Christianity.



I have seen people say that he said "KKK of America," although I haven't actually seen the quote yet. In any event, "KKK of America" does not mean that he believes that the KKK control the US government. One would have to be a fool to take that interpretation. I believe it does reflect his view that the US government and its policies have kept African-Americans in a subservient position. One can disagree on that view.



Actually, I think that I was thinking of another longer quote that used to be up on the Wikipedia page a couple of days ago. I quoted it earlier in this thread (or perhaps the other thread on the same general topic). It must have changed. I applaud you for putting in the surrounding text to that quote.

Here is an excerpt from Cornel West's book African American Religious Thought: An Anthology which speaks to that quote from Cone.



Cornel West, African American Religious Thought: An Anthology, page 857.

One can disagree about the breadth of God's compassion to oppressors, but there is nothing in this belief system that qualifies as virulent racism.

Well if Wright says that rich white people control America then you can surmise that rich white people also control the government. If they control government then by Wright's account are responsible for injecting blacks with HIV correct?

So you agree that his statements were inflammatory right? Then you would also agree by that admittal that he incited anger, which is my point.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inflammatory
in·flam·ma·to·ry Audio Help /ɪnˈflæməˌtɔri, -ˌtoʊri/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-flam-uh-tawr-ee, -tohr-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. tending to arouse anger, hostility, passion, etc.: inflammatory speeches.
2. Pathology. of or caused by inflammation.

Stereotypes are you kidding me his sermons and the BLT are laced full of them. "Any group who has institutional power is violent", that's not stereotypical huh? Blacks live in a white racist society??

Oh...this is funny so because West says it's not racism means that we can't read the statements and think for ourselves....

 

[jillian]

Far be it from me to defend Wright, but is the objection that Wright is inflammatory? Because people say inflammatory garbage all the time. When Coultergeist says that liberals are traitors... that's inflammatory. When she says a democratic presidential candidate should die in a terrorist attack, THAT is inflammatory.

My problem here isn't the criticism of Wright... because saying the government intentionally infected black people with AIDS is pretty off the hook. But then again, so were the government's actions in the Tuskagee experiments. My problem here is attributing the statements to Obama. Because, ultimately, when it comes down to it.... they were Wright's statements, Obama expressed his disagreement with them but noted that this was only a part of Rev. Wright's character.

I'd also point out that for a politician, joining an 8,000 member church in one's district is pretty important -- even if you don't agree with everything the reverend says.

I knew once the comments were aired though that the right would be like everready bunnies and keep on going and going and going......

 

[dread]

Far be it from me to defend Wright, but is the objection that Wright is inflammatory? Because people say inflammatory garbage all the time. When Coultergeist says that liberals are traitors... that's inflammatory. When she says a democratic presidential candidate should die in a terrorist attack, THAT is inflammatory.

My problem here isn't the criticism of Wright... because saying the government intentionally infected black people with AIDS is pretty off the hook. But then again, so were the government's actions in the Tuskagee experiments. My problem here is attributing the statements to Obama. Because, ultimately, when it comes down to it.... they were Wright's statements, Obama expressed his disagreement with them but noted that this was only a part of Rev. Wright's character.

I'd also point out that for a politician, joining an 8,000 member church in one's district is pretty important -- even if you don't agree with everything the reverend says.

I knew once the comments were aired though that the right would be like everready bunnies and keep on going and going and going......

So I guess you will be signing up for David Dukes church soon and calling it all good right?

 

[jillian]

So I guess you will be signing up for David Dukes church soon and calling it all good right?

Everyone here knows I don't do the church thing.

Besides, David Duke is allergic to jews.

But thanks so much for the in depth and insightful response.

 

[jreeves]

Far be it from me to defend Wright, but is the objection that Wright is inflammatory? Because people say inflammatory garbage all the time. When Coultergeist says that liberals are traitors... that's inflammatory. When she says a democratic presidential candidate should die in a terrorist attack, THAT is inflammatory.

My problem here isn't the criticism of Wright... because saying the government intentionally infected black people with AIDS is pretty off the hook. But then again, so were the government's actions in the Tuskagee experiments. My problem here is attributing the statements to Obama. Because, ultimately, when it comes down to it.... they were Wright's statements, Obama expressed his disagreement with them but noted that this was only a part of Rev. Wright's character.

I'd also point out that for a politician, joining an 8,000 member church in one's district is pretty important -- even if you don't agree with everything the reverend says.

I knew once the comments were aired though that the right would be like everready bunnies and keep on going and going and going......

Obama disavowed the statements, Jillian, not the church. The church is based on Black Power and MLK Jrs. teachings, which is very contradictory. MLK denounced the Black Power movement as being divisive and angry. So if you subscribe to and promote a theology that is based in racism then you yourself are responsible for racism.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Obama disavowed the statements, Jillian, not the church. The church is based on Black Power and MLK Jrs. teachings, which is very contradictory. MLK denounced the Black Power movement as being divisive and angry. So if you subscribe to and promote a theology that is based in racism then you yourself are responsible for racism.

Well then you have the whole " I never heard him talk that way" part of Obama's defense.

 

[jreeves]

Well then you have the whole " I never heard him talk that way" part of Obama's defense.

For one, its extremely ignorant to think he never heard him make racist statements. Considering, he had told Wright that sometimes (paraphrasing here) he gets harsh sometimes while preaching. Also he had told him that at some point he may have to distance himself from him.

Even if though, he didn't hear one racist statement, he has admitted to knowing the church is based on Black Liberation Theology. Which is founded on Black Power and MLK Jr's. teachings. The Black Power movement was known to be racially divisive and angry.