Obamacare and affordability

[Freewill]

OK, let us say I have worked 30 years for a company with the promise of health care until medicare. Obamatax(care) passes and it is implied, by name, that it will be more affordable. So companies seeing an easy out now drop all medical insurance for retirees after 2014 throwing them onto Obamatax.

Even if there was no promise of coverage where is the affordability part for those thinking of retirement????

This is the opportunity for those who support Obamatax to show me the savings, TO ME or ANYONE. This is important to me and really may keep me working until I physically can't work then I don't know what will happen. I have done well for myself but I certainly am not rich, in my opinion. I have no wants that I could not take care of and have money saved. But if what I read is right health care may end up costing 20000 per year which will be approximately all of SS payments. With Obama cutting medicare where does that leave the working man who toiled all his life, saved money and now would like to retire before he is an invalid?

This is those who support Obamatax to make me feel better about the whole situation. Yes, everyone should be able to get health care. While that is a good principle it doesn't help me personally.

I don't want excuses I want to know how this Affordable Health care bill is going to be affordable to the working man. Or is working until you die the real objective?

BTW, not having insurance under Obamatax is not an option.

 

[Bigfoot]

The IRS has said that the Bronze plan, which is the least amount of coverage will cost the average family of five $20,000 per year or they can pay the fine for not having insurance. Obamacare is a new tax more then anything else.

 

[ecinicola]

obamacare is not remotely about Health Ins. It is about taxes, and how the Gov't can get more money. If a person can't afford Health Insurance now, just wait til they are forced to buy it when they can't afford it. Oh do they have a surprise coming. The IRS should not be involved in a persons private healthcare. IRS deals in taxes and getting your money, not giving you affordable healthcare. They don't know anything about Healthcare, they only know about taxes and revenue. Obamacare is all about taxes, and nothing more. What ye gonna do when you can't afford this new expensive obamacare?? and the fines, for not having it or complying to it. Obamacare is a forceful method and the citizen is sure going to pay the price.!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dblack]

obamacare is not remotely about Health Ins.

I have to disagree there. PPACA is primarily about insurance - in particular, cementing insurance as our only means of paying of health care. Whether we see the corporate/state collusion as the government controlling business or business controlling government is irrelevant. They're joining forces to consolidate control and money.

The IRS should not be involved in a persons private healthcare. IRS deals in taxes and getting your money, not giving you affordable healthcare. They don't know anything about Healthcare, they only know about taxes and revenue.

Yep.

 

[billyerock1991]

obamacare is not remotely about Health Ins. It is about taxes, and how the Gov't can get more money. If a person can't afford Health Insurance now, just wait til they are forced to buy it when they can't afford it. Oh do they have a surprise coming. The IRS should not be involved in a persons private healthcare. IRS deals in taxes and getting your money, not giving you affordable healthcare. They don't know anything about Healthcare, they only know about taxes and revenue. Obamacare is all about taxes, and nothing more. What ye gonna do when you can't afford this new expensive obamacare?? and the fines, for not having it or complying to it. Obamacare is a forceful method and the citizen is sure going to pay the price.!!!!!!!!!!!

looks like none of you three have read the bill

 

[Freewill]

The IRS has said that the Bronze plan, which is the least amount of coverage will cost the average family of five $20,000 per year or they can pay the fine for not having insurance. Obamacare is a new tax more then anything else.

That is the base line of the whole discussion. If this is true what does that mean to the working man who has two kids and makes, 100K, 150K or 50K???? Why would companies supply healthcare that costs 20000 vs paying a fine of 2000???? It makes no sense for them to do so, in my opinion, which doesn't help the working man at all.

So where is the savings? Who is going to see the savings?

 

[dblack]

obamacare is not remotely about Health Ins. It is about taxes, and how the Gov't can get more money. If a person can't afford Health Insurance now, just wait til they are forced to buy it when they can't afford it. Oh do they have a surprise coming. The IRS should not be involved in a persons private healthcare. IRS deals in taxes and getting your money, not giving you affordable healthcare. They don't know anything about Healthcare, they only know about taxes and revenue. Obamacare is all about taxes, and nothing more. What ye gonna do when you can't afford this new expensive obamacare?? and the fines, for not having it or complying to it. Obamacare is a forceful method and the citizen is sure going to pay the price.!!!!!!!!!!!

looks like none of you three have read the bill

It looks like none of the people who voted for it read the bill.

 

[Freewill]

obamacare is not remotely about Health Ins. It is about taxes, and how the Gov't can get more money. If a person can't afford Health Insurance now, just wait til they are forced to buy it when they can't afford it. Oh do they have a surprise coming. The IRS should not be involved in a persons private healthcare. IRS deals in taxes and getting your money, not giving you affordable healthcare. They don't know anything about Healthcare, they only know about taxes and revenue. Obamacare is all about taxes, and nothing more. What ye gonna do when you can't afford this new expensive obamacare?? and the fines, for not having it or complying to it. Obamacare is a forceful method and the citizen is sure going to pay the price.!!!!!!!!!!!

looks like none of you three have read the bill

Have you? Pelosi voted on the bill and admitted she didn't know what was in it.

But my reading of the bill is not the topic. For the example I gave where is the affordabilty? Where is the savings? WTF was the purprose of Obamatax? Instead of strawmen how about a discussion on the actual effects???? I am going to say I think Obama thought he was doing good, now I need shown how he did good and being myopic how he did good for ME. So far I don't see it.

 

[dblack]

obamacare is not remotely about Health Ins. It is about taxes, and how the Gov't can get more money. If a person can't afford Health Insurance now, just wait til they are forced to buy it when they can't afford it. Oh do they have a surprise coming. The IRS should not be involved in a persons private healthcare. IRS deals in taxes and getting your money, not giving you affordable healthcare. They don't know anything about Healthcare, they only know about taxes and revenue. Obamacare is all about taxes, and nothing more. What ye gonna do when you can't afford this new expensive obamacare?? and the fines, for not having it or complying to it. Obamacare is a forceful method and the citizen is sure going to pay the price.!!!!!!!!!!!

looks like none of you three have read the bill

Have you? Pelosi voted on the bill and admitted she didn't know what was in it.

But my reading of the bill is not the topic. For the example I gave where is the affordabilty? Where is the savings? WTF was the purprose of Obamatax? Instead of strawmen how about a discussion on the actual effects???? I am going to say I think Obama thought he was doing good, now I need shown how he did good and being myopic how he did good for ME. So far I don't see it.

I wonder sometimes about the intent. If it is benign, it seems they're looking at it from the premise that in order to help people, government needs to have really broad power to control society. So, the first step is to acquire that power by whatever means necessary.

Either that, or he's just another corporatist tool driving us to ruin.

 

[LoneLaugher]

The IRS has said that the Bronze plan, which is the least amount of coverage will cost the average family of five $20,000 per year or they can pay the fine for not having insurance. Obamacare is a new tax more then anything else.

That is the base line of the whole discussion. If this is true what does that mean to the working man who has two kids and makes, 100K, 150K or 50K???? Why would companies supply healthcare that costs 20000 vs paying a fine of 2000???? It makes no sense for them to do so, in my opinion, which doesn't help the working man at all.

So where is the savings? Who is going to see the savings?

Key phrase. Excellent work.

 

[billyerock1991]

The IRS has said that the Bronze plan, which is the least amount of coverage will cost the average family of five $20,000 per year or they can pay the fine for not having insurance. Obamacare is a new tax more then anything else.

That is the base line of the whole discussion. If this is true what does that mean to the working man who has two kids and makes, 100K, 150K or 50K???? Why would companies supply healthcare that costs 20000 vs paying a fine of 2000???? It makes no sense for them to do so, in my opinion, which doesn't help the working man at all.

So where is the savings? Who is going to see the savings?

The problem is its not true ... insurers base the cost of the family of five on a curve ... what you are trying to say here that each person has to pay 333. Dollars a month ... where any insurance company uses a family the cost is way cheaper ... where these people get their number is beyond me...

as for people who can't afford health care ... their health care is based on their income .... when the IRS looks at your total Taxable income, that you paid per year, there is a cut off point, I don't remember what it was, but you are excluded form being charged a fine... the fine is based on those people who make a good income ... who can afford insurance ... but chooses to use the emergency room as their health care system ... their the ones who will be fined ... if you people took the time to look at these areas in the bill you would see what is fact and what is and out right lie ... but you see some article in some fantasy source that you call news, that are not in my opinion the news ... but i digress ... look it up in the bill and not some political hackers blogg ...

 

[healthmyths]

obamacare is not remotely about Health Ins.

I have to disagree there. PPACA is primarily about insurance - in particular, cementing insurance as our only means of paying of health care. Whether we see the corporate/state collusion as the government controlling business or business controlling government is irrelevant. They're joining forces to consolidate control and money.

The IRS should not be involved in a persons private healthcare. IRS deals in taxes and getting your money, not giving you affordable healthcare. They don't know anything about Healthcare, they only know about taxes and revenue.

Yep.

So insurance wizard... explain then WHY if it is Called Affordable CARE Act, do these people.. ever hear of "Actuaries"???
when surveyed said in A nationwide study conducted by Milliman Inc. for the Society of Actuaries found that nationwide the premiums in the individual market would increase from 8 to 37 percent in 2014
with a cumulative increase of as much as 122 percent between 2013 and 2017!!!

Are that naive to think by "increasing the pool" which the idiots in Congress and Obama throw that phrase around you lower the costs?
THAT only works if YOU REDUCE the costs of each claim as the insurance companies pay out 80% of every dollar in premium in claims!

What you and obviously many other idiots have totally ignored was
A) THERE NEVER were 50 million uninsured!
B) The BIGGEST cost driver to health care at $850 billion A YEAR is "defensive medicine" duplicate tests, specialists referrals all from fear of lawsuits!

The cleanest simplest way of reducing health care WITHOUT destroying our healthcare system which Obamcare is doing is
A) recognize there were only 8 million that truly need insurance.
B) TAX lawyers $250 billion a year in revenue 10% and that pays the health claim costs for the 8 million!

FACTS JACK you want me to prove the above ... come ask me!!!

 

[healthmyths]

The IRS has said that the Bronze plan, which is the least amount of coverage will cost the average family of five $20,000 per year or they can pay the fine for not having insurance. Obamacare is a new tax more then anything else.

That is the base line of the whole discussion. If this is true what does that mean to the working man who has two kids and makes, 100K, 150K or 50K???? Why would companies supply healthcare that costs 20000 vs paying a fine of 2000???? It makes no sense for them to do so, in my opinion, which doesn't help the working man at all.

So where is the savings? Who is going to see the savings?

Key phrase. Excellent work.

AND totally refutes ANOTHER Obama pledge and promise...
Obama said:
Jul 29, 2009 ... you keep your doctor; if you like your health care plan, you keep your health care plan. These folks need to stop scaring everybody, ...www.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/us/.../30poll.html


Obama said:"I can make a firm pledge: Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.”

FACT: 77% of Americans' paychecks saw payroll taxes increase!

 

[healthmyths]

The ONLY FACT Obama has PROVEN right about is that he is a LIAR!!!

Obama said in his own words... his book "Dreams of My Father"
"It was usually an effective tactic, another one of those tricks I had learned.
People were satisfied so long as you were courteous and smiled and made no sudden moves.
They were more than satisfied. They were revealed. Such a pleasant surprise to find a well-mannered young black man who didn't seem
angry all the time."

Now where did I hear that phrase "all the time"???? OH RIGHT Obama shoots SKEET ALL THE TIME!!!

 

[LoneLaugher]

That is the base line of the whole discussion. If this is true what does that mean to the working man who has two kids and makes, 100K, 150K or 50K???? Why would companies supply healthcare that costs 20000 vs paying a fine of 2000???? It makes no sense for them to do so, in my opinion, which doesn't help the working man at all.

So where is the savings? Who is going to see the savings?

Key phrase. Excellent work.

AND totally refutes ANOTHER Obama pledge and promise...
Obama said:
Jul 29, 2009 ... you keep your doctor; if you like your health care plan, you keep your health care plan. These folks need to stop scaring everybody, ...www.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/us/.../30poll.html


Obama said:"I can make a firm pledge: Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.”

FACT: 77% of Americans' paychecks saw payroll taxes increase!

But...those of us with brains know that our payroll taxes are not higher now than when he said that. We think rationally. They went down.......then they went back to where they were. Like a miracle that didn't raise the tax but gave dummies a talking point anyway! Halle-fucking-luliah!

Thanks for making another person point this out to you. Have you touched everyone with this little bit of disingenuous horesehit?

 

[healthmyths]

Just a further note about the "Pinocchio-in-Chief" from Washington Post ..gasp!

But it is also curious that the White House refuses to provide any documentary evidence that he actually used the shooting range at Camp David, since he claims he uses it “all the time,” or that a presidential friend has not come forward to confirm the president’s comments.
The White House?s curious silence about Obama?s claim of skeet shooting - The Washington Post

Just one more proof what Obama says and does are TWO different things!
He tells people what they want to hear .. "you can keep your plan".. but does it occur..NO!

"If you like your health-care plan, you keep your health-care plan. Nobody is going to force you to leave your health-care plan. If you like your doctor, you keep seeing your doctor.
I don't want government bureaucrats meddling in your health care."

FACT: "The result ObamaCare which today McKinsey & Company commissioned a survey of 1,329 U.S. private sector employers to measure their attitudes about healthcare reform concluded that 30% of all companies would stop providing health coverage once Obamacare kicked in in 2014.
http://www.mckinsey.com/features/us_employer_healthcare_survey

 

[billyerock1991]

go read the god damn bill on who gets taxed

http://www.healthcare.gov/law/full/index.html

sorry had the wrong one

 

[Freewill]

looks like none of you three have read the bill

Have you? Pelosi voted on the bill and admitted she didn't know what was in it.

But my reading of the bill is not the topic. For the example I gave where is the affordabilty? Where is the savings? WTF was the purprose of Obamatax? Instead of strawmen how about a discussion on the actual effects???? I am going to say I think Obama thought he was doing good, now I need shown how he did good and being myopic how he did good for ME. So far I don't see it.

I wonder sometimes about the intent. If it is benign, it seems they're looking at it from the premise that in order to help people, government needs to have really broad power to control society. So, the first step is to acquire that power by whatever means necessary.

Either that, or he's just another corporatist tool driving us to ruin.

I really think their intent was well meaning. But like all things liberal the outcome will be the opposite of the STATED intent.

Their intent is not really the subject of what I am asking. I want to know what people think is the actual effect of the bill. I actually want to be convinced that I am wrong about it is going to do nothing but hurt ME. I know that may sound myopic and selfish but right now I am making life decisions and I need to know.

 

[healthmyths]

Key phrase. Excellent work.

AND totally refutes ANOTHER Obama pledge and promise...
Obama said:
Jul 29, 2009 ... you keep your doctor; if you like your health care plan, you keep your health care plan. These folks need to stop scaring everybody, ...www.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/us/.../30poll.html


Obama said:"I can make a firm pledge: Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.”

FACT: 77% of Americans' paychecks saw payroll taxes increase!

But...those of us with brains know that our payroll taxes are not higher now than when he said that. We think rationally. They went down.......then they went back to where they were. Like a miracle that didn't raise the tax but gave dummies a talking point anyway! Halle-fucking-luliah!

Thanks for making another person point this out to you. Have you touched everyone with this little bit of disingenuous horesehit?

IT Doesn't matter! The facts are people like YOU have a very very short attention span!
They just see their paychecks are less and the government is taking more!
THAT's FACTS idiot!

IF the short attention span Americans REMEMBER AS I DO that
FACT: $8 trillion was lost due to dot.com bust/9/11/worst hurricanes... and as a result Americans are paying $100 billion a year LESS since 2003!
FACT: That Those events REDUCED employment by 850,000 jobs.. destroyed, businesses wiped out .. THAT MEANT MONEY going out.

But see like YOU most Americans have forgotten that.
SO AGAIN because YOU have a short attention span: Taxes have gone up in spite of Obama's pledge "WILL NOT RAISE YOUR PAYROLL TAXES"

That is the truth. He could have lobbied his OWN Senate NOT to have them go up. He didn't!

So he broke his PLEDGE. He is a liar!

 

[LoneLaugher]

AND totally refutes ANOTHER Obama pledge and promise...
Obama said:
Jul 29, 2009 ... you keep your doctor; if you like your health care plan, you keep your health care plan. These folks need to stop scaring everybody, ...www.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/us/.../30poll.html


Obama said:"I can make a firm pledge: Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.”

FACT: 77% of Americans' paychecks saw payroll taxes increase!

But...those of us with brains know that our payroll taxes are not higher now than when he said that. We think rationally. They went down.......then they went back to where they were. Like a miracle that didn't raise the tax but gave dummies a talking point anyway! Halle-fucking-luliah!

Thanks for making another person point this out to you. Have you touched everyone with this little bit of disingenuous horesehit?

IT Doesn't matter! The facts are people like YOU have a very very short attention span!
They just see their paychecks are less and the government is taking more!
THAT's FACTS idiot!

IF the short attention span Americans REMEMBER AS I DO that
FACT: $8 trillion was lost due to dot.com bust/9/11/worst hurricanes... and as a result Americans are paying $100 billion a year LESS since 2003!
FACT: That Those events REDUCED employment by 850,000 jobs.. destroyed, businesses wiped out .. THAT MEANT MONEY going out.

But see like YOU most Americans have forgotten that.
SO AGAIN because YOU have a short attention span: Taxes have gone up in spite of Obama's pledge "WILL NOT RAISE YOUR PAYROLL TAXES"

That is the truth. He could have lobbied his OWN Senate NOT to have them go up. He didn't!

So he broke his PLEDGE. He is a liar!

I would love for you to calmly explain the logic in that statement. I have demonstrated that I understand the matter. You are accusing me of doing that which you did. By saying that itvdoesn't matter....are you referring to poli-optics as being more important than facts? I think so.