Obamacare and affordability

[billyerock1991]

SO you can see why I question your information

Medical-loss ratios of largest for-profit insurers | Physicians for a National Health Program
Medical-loss ratios for 2005 (Source: Company 10-K, year-end filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission):

76.9% - Aetna
82.3% - Cigna
83.9% - Health Net
83.2% - Humana
78.6% - UnitedHealth Group
WellPoint 80.6% -

as I said go read the god damn fuckin bill ... do you honestly think that some paid blogger for these insurance companies are going to tell you whats in the bill ???? thats forcing them to to show what they are spending ??? you really think that they want to give money back that they didn't spend???? really are you really this fuckin' stupid

 

[healthmyths]

go read the god damn bill on who gets taxed

Read the Law | HealthCare.gov

sorry had the wrong one

Hey rockhead!!!
page 5 of the same report YOU obviously being ignorant NEVER READ NOR UNDERSTOOD IMPLICATIONS NOR DID Consumer's UNION!
•Medicare Advantage changes: The extra Medicare payments that private Medicare Advantage plans have been getting will phase out over the next several years, starting in 2011. That may change your benefits or out-of-pocket costs if you are in one of these plans. But 76% of Medicare
recipients won’t be paying these extra costs, and Advantage plans that provide high-quality care will get bonus payments."

I AM A MEDICARE ADVANTAGE MEMBER AND will be faced with the FOLLOWING INCREASED COSTS due to Obama hating for profit companies!

1) Did you know on traditional Medicare $96.40 a month is deducted from the recipient's social security check?
UNDER MY Advantage plan it is NOT deducted so Advantage plan members have $96.40 more per month?
Which is better a SS check with $96.40 more per month or $96.40 deducted each month? DUH!!!

2) Traditional Medicare requires 20% co-payment!
MY Advantage plan ZERO!
If as a traditional Medicare visits physician 3 times at $80/visit I would pay of the $240 in office visits, $48!
But under my Advantage plan I PAY ZERO!!! Which is better paying a 20% co-pay or NOT paying a co-pay??? DUH!!!

3) Advantage plan provides up to $50/month in free over the counter (OTC) like free 81mg aspirin reduces heart problems, among FREE items vitamins to
prevent problems why I even got a blood pressure monitor all under my OTC plan that I order each month off the internet and shipped to me!
With Traditional Medicare? zero nothing nada zip!
Which is better getting $20 /month in free vitamins,aspirin blood pressure meter,etc. OR nothing! DUH!!!

4) Finally it is widely know that Medicare has over $60 billion a year in waste,fraud and abuse!
Advantage charges Medicare an average of $800/month per member! THAT's IT! NO more NO less. So Medicare KNOWS exactly how much is going out!
Does Medicare have ANY other expenses? NOPE! How much easier to administer write $800 check once/month versus having 20 different for profit
companies that have underwritten Medicare contracting (Many are losing money!! that write hundreds in claim payments? DUH!!!!

After Obama's hatred of "for profits" is complete and Advantage plans abolished IT WILL COST ME OVER $3,000 a year NOW!
Wait till I have to go to the hospital under traditional Medicare easily $10,000 more then I would under my Advantage Plan!

SO the facts are in Rockyhead... YOU and the Consumer's Union are SHILLS and ignorant ones at that!!!

there you go agiain quoting from some blogger ... read the god damn fuckin' bill

WHAT Blogger are you talking about?
I'm describing MY OWN personal Medicare Advantage plan that Obama wants destroyed because evil profit taking insurance company runs it!
Even though the company PAYS federal taxes on the evil profits! Which under Obamacare THERE Will be NO evil health insurance companies hence no $100 billion a year in Federal/state/local and probably your own Property taxes will go up because you might have a local insurance company that pays property taxes go out of business which is what Obama WANTS!!!

He has said his preference is when he said.."I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program."
Obama's words exactly!!

He admits he wants 1,300 companies out of business, 400,000 people unemployed and $100 billion a year in LOST TAX REVENUE!!!
"I prefer to destroy the 1,300 health insurance companies that pay $100 billion a YEAR in Federal/State/Local taxes AND local property taxes on their office buildings! I prefer to put out of work the 400,000 people that work in the health insurance companies!"

aND obviously you haven't thought that through!!!

 

[billyerock1991]

"Calmly?"..
I am presenting facts to readers with obviously a SHORT attention span so I apologize for any "bold" color letters for emphasis.
"Logic" in what statement?


Obama broke his pledge "I can make a firm pledge: Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.”
FACT: 77% of Americans' paychecks saw payroll taxes increase!

Therefore he is a liar!

Pretty simple to me. He said NO payroll taxes increase.. yet they did and HE could have prevented that simply by vetoing! HE DIDN"T! He broke his pledge. He lied!

OK genius. Is the payroll tax higher now than when President Obama made that statement?

This is a yes or no question.

Did Obama PROMISE NO PAYROLL TAXES INCREASE Yes!
Did 77% of Americans see LESS in their paychecks and AND INCREASE in what was paid in TAXES? YES!
So Obama LIED. Payroll taxes increased on 77% of Americans and GUESS WHAT.. that's what Americans see is the bottom line.. they have less money to take home because Obama LIED when he said there would be no increases! THAT IS A FACT!!!
Anything else is parsing. Is nuancing. Right back to "it depends on what 'is' is"!!!! By Bill Clinton under oath!

your taxes didn't go up .... you're plain nuts

 

[billyerock1991]

Hey rockhead!!!
page 5 of the same report YOU obviously being ignorant NEVER READ NOR UNDERSTOOD IMPLICATIONS NOR DID Consumer's UNION!
•Medicare Advantage changes: The extra Medicare payments that private Medicare Advantage plans have been getting will phase out over the next several years, starting in 2011. That may change your benefits or out-of-pocket costs if you are in one of these plans. But 76% of Medicare
recipients won’t be paying these extra costs, and Advantage plans that provide high-quality care will get bonus payments."

I AM A MEDICARE ADVANTAGE MEMBER AND will be faced with the FOLLOWING INCREASED COSTS due to Obama hating for profit companies!

1) Did you know on traditional Medicare $96.40 a month is deducted from the recipient's social security check?
UNDER MY Advantage plan it is NOT deducted so Advantage plan members have $96.40 more per month?
Which is better a SS check with $96.40 more per month or $96.40 deducted each month? DUH!!!

2) Traditional Medicare requires 20% co-payment!
MY Advantage plan ZERO!
If as a traditional Medicare visits physician 3 times at $80/visit I would pay of the $240 in office visits, $48!
But under my Advantage plan I PAY ZERO!!! Which is better paying a 20% co-pay or NOT paying a co-pay??? DUH!!!

3) Advantage plan provides up to $50/month in free over the counter (OTC) like free 81mg aspirin reduces heart problems, among FREE items vitamins to
prevent problems why I even got a blood pressure monitor all under my OTC plan that I order each month off the internet and shipped to me!
With Traditional Medicare? zero nothing nada zip!
Which is better getting $20 /month in free vitamins,aspirin blood pressure meter,etc. OR nothing! DUH!!!

4) Finally it is widely know that Medicare has over $60 billion a year in waste,fraud and abuse!
Advantage charges Medicare an average of $800/month per member! THAT's IT! NO more NO less. So Medicare KNOWS exactly how much is going out!
Does Medicare have ANY other expenses? NOPE! How much easier to administer write $800 check once/month versus having 20 different for profit
companies that have underwritten Medicare contracting (Many are losing money!! that write hundreds in claim payments? DUH!!!!

After Obama's hatred of "for profits" is complete and Advantage plans abolished IT WILL COST ME OVER $3,000 a year NOW!
Wait till I have to go to the hospital under traditional Medicare easily $10,000 more then I would under my Advantage Plan!

SO the facts are in Rockyhead... YOU and the Consumer's Union are SHILLS and ignorant ones at that!!!

there you go agiain quoting from some blogger ... read the god damn fuckin' bill

WHAT Blogger are you talking about?
I'm describing MY OWN personal Medicare Advantage plan that Obama wants destroyed because evil profit taking insurance company runs it!
Even though the company PAYS federal taxes on the evil profits! Which under Obamacare THERE Will be NO evil health insurance companies hence no $100 billion a year in Federal/state/local and probably your own Property taxes will go up because you might have a local insurance company that pays property taxes go out of business which is what Obama WANTS!!!

He has said his preference is when he said.."I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program."
Obama's words exactly!!

He admits he wants 1,300 companies out of business, 400,000 people unemployed and $100 billion a year in LOST TAX REVENUE!!!
"I prefer to destroy the 1,300 health insurance companies that pay $100 billion a YEAR in Federal/State/Local taxes AND local property taxes on their office buildings! I prefer to put out of work the 400,000 people that work in the health insurance companies!"

aND obviously you haven't thought that through!!!

then you have no Idea what you're talking about when it comes to health care ... all of you information comes from Physicians for a National Health Program ... right wing bloggers ... they are bought a sold by these doctor ... who really aren't there for your best interest ... read the god dam fuckin' bill ... not these Physicians for a National Health Program ... they aren't the bill ...

P.S
health care shouldn't be a making profit on the ill thats my opinion... as for your insurance... the only reason it went up, if it did, was because they are gouging the system ... the fact that you haven't read the fuckin' bill where you will see where it is forcing these companies to stop gouging your cost isn't my problem... its your s.... you're the one who has no idea what in the bill ... not me .. ,I have the pdf file these doctor want to gouge your plan ... Obama is saying not any more ... that's why you see all these right wing nut case tying to convince you that it needs to be repealed ...

 

[healthmyths]

As far as READING THE BILL HAVE YOU?
this legislation contains revenue provisions anticipated to generate $438 billion in the form of new taxes, fees, and penalties.
One of these new taxes is an excise tax on indoor tanning services (referred to hereafter as the tanning tax).

The Indoor Tanning Association, based in Washington, D.C., contends the tax has damaged the industry.
Nearly 3,100 tanning businesses have shut down, with the loss of 35,000 jobs, according to the organization.
Local salons burned by Affordable Care Act?s tax on tanning - Tampa Bay Business Journal

35,000 jobs LOST because tanning causes cancer therefore let's tax tanning salons!

Wow what have they got for their tax??
The Congressional Joint Committee on Taxation estimated this tax would raise less than $50 million in the last 3 months of Fiscal Year 2010 and raise $200 million for FiscalYear 2011. H

http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201140115fr.pdf


BUT wait... They collect $200 million
But lost payroll taxes per year on 35,000 jobs average hourly $13.00 working 40 hours taxes employer/employee pay 15.3%
That's in one year $144 million in lost payroll taxes which make up 37% of the US REVENUE!
But's not all.. 35,000 now on unemployment at $300/week for 99 weeks is: $1.039 BILLION!!

FOLKS once again we have Government in action...
They take in $200 million BUT lose $1.1 billion!!!
Isn't that special???

 

[healthmyths]

OK genius. Is the payroll tax higher now than when President Obama made that statement?

This is a yes or no question.

Did Obama PROMISE NO PAYROLL TAXES INCREASE Yes!
Did 77% of Americans see LESS in their paychecks and AND INCREASE in what was paid in TAXES? YES!
So Obama LIED. Payroll taxes increased on 77% of Americans and GUESS WHAT.. that's what Americans see is the bottom line.. they have less money to take home because Obama LIED when he said there would be no increases! THAT IS A FACT!!!
Anything else is parsing. Is nuancing. Right back to "it depends on what 'is' is"!!!! By Bill Clinton under oath!

your taxes didn't go up .... you're plain nuts

Wow.. maybe i'm looking at my paycheck wrong but there was on my Dec 2012
paycheck 3% MORE money then there has been on my Jan/Feb paychecks!

NO I could be wrong... but the booking keeping say ... your taxes went up to 6.2% on
your SS! OH she didn't say well remember you had a tax cut... no she said they went back UP to 6.2%
Remember i'm just a poor worker doesn't understand how all these things work but I do know my paycheck is 3.8% less this year then last year... hence something is different!!!!!

 

[billyerock1991]

he sky is falling the sky is falling if obama care comes to light ... you post a lot of useless information i've see it before it was useless then its useless now ...

you said Medicare is 96. dollars a month and you tried to compare it you your plan ... that's the stupidest thing you could try and convince me with ... then you throw out all these useless job numbers that's comical at best to try and convince us your right in what you're saying ... you're the typical republican that buys into their blogna ... your trying to say that your health care plan is better by all the advantages you have ... you pay through the nose for that plan ... then you try to come here and convince your plan is better then medicare ???? even with its co-pays and its donut holes, they don't pay any where near what the person on medicade is paying ... who do you think you're kiding ...

 

[healthmyths]

SO you can see why I question your information

Medical-loss ratios of largest for-profit insurers | Physicians for a National Health Program
Medical-loss ratios for 2005 (Source: Company 10-K, year-end filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission):

76.9% - Aetna
82.3% - Cigna
83.9% - Health Net
83.2% - Humana
78.6% - UnitedHealth Group
WellPoint 80.6% -

as I said go read the god damn fuckin bill ... do you honestly think that some paid blogger for these insurance companies are going to tell you whats in the bill ???? thats forcing them to to show what they are spending ??? you really think that they want to give money back that they didn't spend???? really are you really this fuckin' stupid

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Mr. DINGELL (for himself, Mr. RANGEL, Mr. WAXMAN, Mr. GEORGE MILLER
of California, Mr. STARK, Mr. PALLONE, and Mr. ANDREWS) introduced
the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on

A BILL
To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans
and reduce the growth in health care spending, and
for other purposes.
1 Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
3 SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE; TABLE OF DIVISIONS, TITLES,
4 AND SUBTITLES.
5 (a) SHORT TITLE.—This Act may be cited as the
6 ‘‘America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009’’.bill on my computer!!!

Page 350!!!
‘‘(4) REQUIREMENT FOR MINIMUM MEDICAL LOSS RATIO.—
If the Secretary determines for a contract year (beginning with 2014) that an MA plan has failed to have a medical loss ratio (as defined in section 1851(p)(4)) of at least .85—‘‘(A) the Secretary shall require the Medicare Advantage organization offering the plan to give enrollees a rebate (in the second succeeding contract year) of premiums under this part (or part B or part D, if applicable) by"

IDIOT ! Do you know what that says????
It tells the insurance company the MUST spend 85% of their premium or give out in rebates if they didn't!!~!!

Dumb f...k! Do you know what RESERVES are for in insurance business???
IN CASE the claims are more then anticipated the company by STATE insurance regulators have to make a profit!
SO the MEDICARE ADVANTAGE plan NOW knows it must SPEND 85% of the premiums it collects! It can't challenge the
physicians/hospitals claims because IT ALREADY has to pay automatically any enrolles a rebate!
SO If 85% of premiums goes in claims! Insurance companies REQUIRED to make a profit to put into reserves!
HOw is that going to happen?
The above 85% means 15% going out in administration,salaries,computers,rent,etc....
Where does that leave any profit??????
So what can the company do? Let people go! cuts salaries. Reduces GDP! OH and taxes???
YOU can forget that! They will be paying LoWER TAXES to Federal/State/Local and also property taxes because NOW
the federal government requires them to pay 85% out in claims!

IDIOT...
Medical-loss ratios of largest for-profit insurers | Physicians for a National Health Program
Medical-loss ratios for 2005 (Source: Company 10-K, year-end filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission):

76.9% - Aetna
82.3% - Cigna
83.9% - Health Net
83.2% - Humana
78.6% - UnitedHealth Group
WellPoint 80.6%

DO you know where that """"BLOGGER" got the informatioN you dummy! from company 10-Ks that if the CFO and auditors
didn't attest these costs were correct... THEY WOULD BE PUT IN JAIL you dumb shit!!!

Listen/read... Obama care forces now that 5% to be paid out in claims and if NOT the company does NOT make profits!
Do you know what the average profit is BEFORE TAXES on insurance companies???
Fortune 500 2009: Top Performers - Most Profitable Industries: Return on Revenues
Top industries: Most profitable 2008 Profits as % of Revenues


1 Network and Other Communications Equipment 20.4% why don't you get after these guys???
2 Internet Services and Retailing 19.4%
3 Pharmaceuticals 19.3
4 Medical Products and Equipment 16.3
5 Railroads 12.6
22 Insurance: Life, Health (stock) 4.6%

THERE goes insurance PROFITS BEFORE TAXES!!!!
If there are NO profits... NO companies. NO companies no employees, NO TAXES, NO $100 billion a year in
payroll,income/state/local TAXES!!!
Do you understand how totally IGNORANT this provision of the bill you keep asking me to read and I'm pointing out to you obviously Obama administration KNOWS but does care because

Obama has said: "I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program."Obama's words exactly!!
"I prefer to destroy the 1,300 health insurance companies that pay $100 billion a YEAR in Federal/State/Local taxes AND local property taxes on their office buildings! I prefer to put out of work the 400,000 people that work in the health insurance companies!"
I prefer that the remaining 99% pay HIGHER TAXES BECAUSE I"VE destroyed coal companies, utilities, health insurance companies!
So IF Obama prefers ONE payer that means 1,300 insurance companies no longer are in business!

 

[billyerock1991]

As far as READING THE BILL HAVE YOU?
this legislation contains revenue provisions anticipated to generate $438 billion in the form of new taxes, fees, and penalties.
One of these new taxes is an excise tax on indoor tanning services (referred to hereafter as the tanning tax).

The Indoor Tanning Association, based in Washington, D.C., contends the tax has damaged the industry.
Nearly 3,100 tanning businesses have shut down, with the loss of 35,000 jobs, according to the organization.
Local salons burned by Affordable Care Act?s tax on tanning - Tampa Bay Business Journal

35,000 jobs LOST because tanning causes cancer therefore let's tax tanning salons!

Wow what have they got for their tax??
The Congressional Joint Committee on Taxation estimated this tax would raise less than $50 million in the last 3 months of Fiscal Year 2010 and raise $200 million for FiscalYear 2011. H

http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201140115fr.pdf


BUT wait... They collect $200 million
But lost payroll taxes per year on 35,000 jobs average hourly $13.00 working 40 hours taxes employer/employee pay 15.3%
That's in one year $144 million in lost payroll taxes which make up 37% of the US REVENUE!
But's not all.. 35,000 now on unemployment at $300/week for 99 weeks is: $1.039 BILLION!!

FOLKS once again we have Government in action...
They take in $200 million BUT lose $1.1 billion!!!
Isn't that special???

read the damn bill ... you're just quoting Rhetoric form some right wing nut cases site ...your figures mean nothing ... why ??? they have a ounce of truth to them ... when you read the bill, then come back a show us from the bill where each and every number you posted is part of what you wrote is in it ... WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAt ????? you can't !!!!! now why is that ... your Rhetoric is direct from the right wing nut case sites you're quoting from ... they haven't any factual bases too them ... try again ...

 

[billyerock1991]

Did Obama PROMISE NO PAYROLL TAXES INCREASE Yes!
Did 77% of Americans see LESS in their paychecks and AND INCREASE in what was paid in TAXES? YES!
So Obama LIED. Payroll taxes increased on 77% of Americans and GUESS WHAT.. that's what Americans see is the bottom line.. they have less money to take home because Obama LIED when he said there would be no increases! THAT IS A FACT!!!
Anything else is parsing. Is nuancing. Right back to "it depends on what 'is' is"!!!! By Bill Clinton under oath!

your taxes didn't go up .... you're plain nuts

Wow.. maybe i'm looking at my paycheck wrong but there was on my Dec 2012
paycheck 3% MORE money then there has been on my Jan/Feb paychecks!

NO I could be wrong... but the booking keeping say ... your taxes went up to 6.2% on
your SS! OH she didn't say well remember you had a tax cut... no she said they went back UP to 6.2%
Remember i'm just a poor worker doesn't understand how all these things work but I do know my paycheck is 3.8% less this year then last year... hence something is different!!!!!

social security isn't a tax ... its an investment for your future that you get back... taxes, you never get back ... there for, your taxes didn't go up ... I know you right wing nut jobs will try to convince us that its a tax but it isn't ... try and keep up here will ya???

 

[Freewill]

Bottom line, how does this bill contain the rising cost of medical care?

Here is what appears to be a partial site towards Obamacare that explains a lot of what we are talking about. Being as the bill is really long and I seriously doubt anyone, other then the authors, have read the entire bill. This site might have infor eaisier to disgest, other then what is everyone's opinion.

Cost of ObamaCare: Obama Care Cost

 

[Freewill]

your taxes didn't go up .... you're plain nuts

Wow.. maybe i'm looking at my paycheck wrong but there was on my Dec 2012
paycheck 3% MORE money then there has been on my Jan/Feb paychecks!

NO I could be wrong... but the booking keeping say ... your taxes went up to 6.2% on
your SS! OH she didn't say well remember you had a tax cut... no she said they went back UP to 6.2%
Remember i'm just a poor worker doesn't understand how all these things work but I do know my paycheck is 3.8% less this year then last year... hence something is different!!!!!

social security isn't a tax ... its an investment for your future that you get back... taxes, you never get back ... there for, your taxes didn't go up ... I know you right wing nut jobs will try to convince us that its a tax but it isn't ... try and keep up here will ya???

SS is certainly a tax just as Obamacare is a tax. Every cent you pay in taxes is suppose to be for something that benefits you, SS is no different. You left wing Obama zealots tried to tell us that Obamacare was not the largest tax increase in American history and you were proved to be wrong. Was the Constitutional Lawyer in the WH lying or just ignorant.

Of course the SCOTUS should have ruled that it wasn't a tax thus unconstitutional but they did not. Remember every libeal out there was saying it was not a tax. CNN even reported at first that the SCOTUS ruled against the mandates, then changed it when what they thought wouldn't happen did.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Ladies and gentlemen,

The American people have decided that our system of delivering health care is ineffective.

Thus, it is being changed.

 

[billyerock1991]

Bottom line, how does this bill contain the rising cost of medical care?

Here is what appears to be a partial site towards Obamacare that explains a lot of what we are talking about. Being as the bill is really long and I seriously doubt anyone, other then the authors, have read the entire bill. This site might have infor eaisier to disgust, other then what is everyone's opinion.

Cost of ObamaCare: Obama Care Cost

that's a informative site not the bill, but it basically tells you how they will cut cost ... this person healthmyths throws these figures around, trying to compare his plan to Medicare, which probably he/she pays 800 dollars a month or more for it ... where the average cost for a person on medicare is about 196 dollars for a month ... this says to me the guy hasn't any clue what he's talking about when it comes to obama care or medicare ... here he tries to convince us with all these smoke and mirrors figures that he has accumulate from these right wing sites ... here's a clue for this loser ... My health care this year went down in cost this year ... so far ... I wonder why that was...HUMMMMMMMM could it be that Obama Care had some influence on it ??? or was it Paul Ryan ragging about it... who really knows ...

 

[billyerock1991]

Wow.. maybe i'm looking at my paycheck wrong but there was on my Dec 2012
paycheck 3% MORE money then there has been on my Jan/Feb paychecks!

NO I could be wrong... but the booking keeping say ... your taxes went up to 6.2% on
your SS! OH she didn't say well remember you had a tax cut... no she said they went back UP to 6.2%
Remember i'm just a poor worker doesn't understand how all these things work but I do know my paycheck is 3.8% less this year then last year... hence something is different!!!!!

social security isn't a tax ... its an investment for your future that you get back... taxes, you never get back ... there for, your taxes didn't go up ... I know you right wing nut jobs will try to convince us that its a tax but it isn't ... try and keep up here will ya???

SS is certainly a tax just as Obamacare is a tax. Every cent you pay in taxes is suppose to be for something that benefits you, SS is no different. You left wing Obama zealots tried to tell us that Obamacare was not the largest tax increase in American history and you were proved to be wrong. Was the Constitutional Lawyer in the WH lying or just ignorant. nut case losing the debate here

Of course the SCOTUS should have ruled that it wasn't a tax thus unconstitutional but they did not. Remember every libeal out there was saying it was not a tax. CNN even reported at first that the SCOTUS ruled against the mandates, then changed it when what they thought wouldn't happen did. here his/hers confusion sets in ... big time !!!

one more time ... no its not... stop your lying ... should have, would have ... might be... SS isn't a tax ... its an investment in your future just like stocks and bonds are... the only difference is you're forced to invest in it ...

 

[dblack]

Bottom line, how does this bill contain the rising cost of medical care?

Here is what appears to be a partial site towards Obamacare that explains a lot of what we are talking about. Being as the bill is really long and I seriously doubt anyone, other then the authors, have read the entire bill. This site might have infor eaisier to disgust, other then what is everyone's opinion.

Cost of ObamaCare: Obama Care Cost

That does a reasonable job of reflecting the overall aim and strategy of PPACA. And like PPACA, it says virtually nothing about health care inflation. It is exclusively preoccupied with how to pay the inflated prices, rather than with actually doing something about the dysfunctional health care market.

Corporate health insurance is a failed business model. Rather than clearing the impediments and legal structures that keep us mired in that approach, PPACA doubles down on it, essentially bailing out the insurance industry by forcing all of us into their bloody "pool". I can't believe so many of my fellow citizens are falling for it.

 

[Freewill]

Ladies and gentlemen,

The American people have decided that our system of delivering health care is ineffective.

Thus, it is being changed.

I must have missed that vote.

 

[LoneLaugher]

"Falling for it" is not an accurate way to describe what has happened.

Given the choice between doing nothing and doing something that regulates the unfair practices that insurance companies engage in......the American people chose the latter.

Those of us who accept this watered down attempt are not blind to its flaws. But we know that we won't get fucked as hard or as often moving forward.

 

[dblack]

"Falling for it" is not an accurate way to describe what has happened.

Given the choice between doing nothing and doing something that regulates the unfair practices that insurance companies engage in......the American people chose the latter.

Those of us who accept this watered down attempt are not blind to its flaws. But we know that we won't get fucked as hard or as often moving forward.

I think you are. Especially to the grave constitutional precedents it sets. What we 'pay' for PPACA will be much more devastating than the immediate financial hit. What you're 'falling for' is the idea that it is better than doing nothing. It's not. It's much, much worse.

 

[Freewill]

Bottom line, how does this bill contain the rising cost of medical care?

Here is what appears to be a partial site towards Obamacare that explains a lot of what we are talking about. Being as the bill is really long and I seriously doubt anyone, other then the authors, have read the entire bill. This site might have infor eaisier to disgust, other then what is everyone's opinion.

Cost of ObamaCare: Obama Care Cost

That does a reasonable job of reflecting the overall aim and strategy of PPACA. And like PPACA, it says virtually nothing about health care inflation. It is exclusively preoccupied with how to pay the inflated prices, rather than with actually doing something about the dysfunctional health care market.

Corporate health insurance is a failed business model. Rather than clearing the impediments and legal structures that keep us mired in that approach, PPACA doubles down on it, essentially bailing out the insurance industry by forcing all of us into their bloody "pool". I can't believe so many of my fellow citizens are falling for it.

Can you tell me how much corporate health care insurance cost add to health care costs? I do not believe those costs are what is driving the runaway medical cost increases.

Here is a site that shows that of the total increase 5 percent is due to private insurance. Seems to me we are doing everything to effect that and nothing to effect the real problem. I may be wrong and would like to be shown why.

http://www.unitedhealthgroup.com/hrm/UNH-Health-Care-Costs.pdf