Obama wants to raise the minimum wage when we're on the verge of a second recession?

[Dubya]

FYI

Social security is NOT an expenditure.

It is a repayment of loans made to the government by the workers.

ex·pend/ɪkˈspɛnd/ Show Spelled [ik-spend] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1. to use up: She expended energy, time, and care on her work.
2. to pay out; disburse; spend.

It requires more than a dictionary to understand what government spending is. Social Security is a transfer of funds and isn't spending.

 

[zeke]

Watched a program about good old socialist Henry Ford the other evening.

Did you know that he raised the wages of his workers to the point where they could make 5 dollars a day. Which btw was a real good increase. And only have to work 8 hours a day instead of 9.

Of course, everyone told him his business would fail. And soon.

Henry told them; bullshit. My business will grow dramitically becaue more workers could afford to buy cars.

And he was correct. And yes, higher wages did cut into his wealth some. But he didn't worry about it.

How did that work out so well when Ford raised the wages he was willing to pay? Why is it that some of the old time capitalists actually understood that a worker making a living wage is a better worker.

 

[JoeNormal]

You might be surprised how little you really need.

My point exactly. A person might be able to get by with one modest yacht, one Manhattan penthouse condo, two exotic cars and an couple of servants.

 

[DiamondDave]

You might be surprised how little you really need.

My point exactly. A person might be able to get by with one modest yacht, one Manhattan penthouse condo, two exotic cars and an couple of servants.

Except those things are not given, they are earned... and you are allowed to strive for more than the basics, earn to purchase them... much different than being given something for nothing

 

[JoeNormal]

You might be surprised how little you really need.

My point exactly. A person might be able to get by with one modest yacht, one Manhattan penthouse condo, two exotic cars and an couple of servants.

Except those things are not given, they are earned... and you are allowed to strive for more than the basics, earn to purchase them... much different than being given something for nothing

How does one 'earn' what the richest have? At that level, it only comes from siphoning off the fruits of other people's labor. I can see having 20 times normal. Maybe even 100 times normal for the real exceptions like Steve Jobs, Walt Disney, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison... How does someone like Mitt Romney do it? Vulture capitalism.

 

[Bern80]

If your business can't pay it's employees enough to live on, then you shouldn't have a business. Why should the whole of society suffer because someone wants to run a failed business model?

What utter bullshit. You idiots always resort to this stupid uninfomred refrain 'if you can't pay people enough to live then you're not running your business right'? Nothing could be more factually incorrect. I'll ask again and see if you have the balls to answer this time. If I am entitled to enough to live, and you are entitled to enough to live on, and we are all entitled to enough to live on. Meaning none of us should have to do much of anything to attain that outcome, who does that leave left to provide it? How is it at all moral to say you're entitled to something with out any effort when obviously someone else has to do that for themselves before they can do it for you?

Your excuses are bullshit and only prove if something doesn't benefit you in a way your pea brain can fathom, then you are against it. You're afraid your burger will cost a quarter more and want the taxpayer to subsidize your eating habits.

No. In my position, raising the min wage doesn't effect me one way or the other. I'm exactly the opposite actually. It is you that is for the immoral if it benefits you and that is really how you judge somone's moral character. If your moral compass happens to change depending on whether does or doesn't benefit you, your morals are obviously pretty lacking. The concept of the minimum wage is completely immoral. It is immoral to suggest that your entitled to that which someone else must first earn on their own to provide for you. It is immoral to pay two equally meritous employees different wages for the same work. It is immoral to transfer responsibility for taking care of yourself on to other people.

We are talking about paying someone for their work, so how did it get to them being entitled and not willing to work for it? If someone will work for poor wages, they'll work for better wages.

Over 90% of the countries in the world have minimum wage laws, so why don't you move to Somalia and take your friends with you? That's how backward a country has to be to not have minimum wage laws, with few exceptions were wages are naturally high. Raising the minimum wage would have to cause some inflation, so it will affect everyone, but the reality is, it will stop the social programs subsidizing those businesses that don't pay enough. It's also the way to treat people who are needed doing that job in society. People should have to work 3,500 hours per year just to get by. Overall, the economy would benefit from a minimum wage increase.

Stop making excuses and start answering my questions Dubya. Supporting your position with nothing more than 'they deserve it' is not a credible argument. Meanwhile I have posed to you multiple times the moral dilemas of your position and questioned them. Multiple times you have ignored them. Most likely because deep down you know the answer and it doesn't help your argument. Stop making up this bullshit. First there were 2000 hours in a week, now 3500? Are you exagerating for effect or do you not really know? Either way. neither helps your argument.

 

[hazlnut]

What planet do you live on where you believe this to be a good idea?

London School of Economics.

Harvard Business School.

University of Chicago Dept of Econ.


To name a few....

 

[Bern80]

Watched a program about good old socialist Henry Ford the other evening.

Did you know that he raised the wages of his workers to the point where they could make 5 dollars a day. Which btw was a real good increase. And only have to work 8 hours a day instead of 9.

Of course, everyone told him his business would fail. And soon.

Henry told them; bullshit. My business will grow dramitically becaue more workers could afford to buy cars.

And he was correct. And yes, higher wages did cut into his wealth some. But he didn't worry about it.

How did that work out so well when Ford raised the wages he was willing to pay? Why is it that some of the old time capitalists actually understood that a worker making a living wage is a better worker.

Not sure if it was the same program, public television? But yeah, that was pretty interesting, not a fan of unions.

 

[Bern80]

You might be surprised how little you really need.

My point exactly. A person might be able to get by with one modest yacht, one Manhattan penthouse condo, two exotic cars and an couple of servants.

No that was not the point. The point was you better know how much one really needs to survive before you insist the min wage is not enough to live on.

 

[Ame®icano]

No...but see...its good when a rich person has extra money to spend. But put that extra money into the hands of several poorer people to spend and..well, thats bad. See....rich money goes into the US economy. Poor people money goes into the economy of the Planet Nibiru orbitting out in deep space somewhere. See how that works now?

Im not rich you dumbfuck. And this would take money out of my pocket.

Cost of living has gone up. PRICES have gone up. Everything has gone up, including labor.

Guess what...China and North Korea dont have minimum wage. Are you a commie?

Hmm, why do you think cost of living and prices have gone up?
And follow up, if those things have gone up, labor cost isn't, in fact, it went down.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

My point exactly. A person might be able to get by with one modest yacht, one Manhattan penthouse condo, two exotic cars and an couple of servants.

Except those things are not given, they are earned... and you are allowed to strive for more than the basics, earn to purchase them... much different than being given something for nothing

How does one 'earn' what the richest have? At that level, it only comes from siphoning off the fruits of other people's labor. I can see having 20 times normal. Maybe even 100 times normal for the real exceptions like Steve Jobs, Walt Disney, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison... How does someone like Mitt Romney do it? Vulture capitalism.

how does BO do it....?

don't kid yourself....at least Romney was working for his own private company in the private sector solving private company financial problems....on the other hand BO is making huge money off the Obamacare industry....i'd say that is acting much more like a despicable VULTURE....

Barack Obama is very comfortable blending big money and big power | WashingtonExaminer.com

 

[Ame®icano]

I red first 4 pages and since things started repeating I'll just skip to the rest and give my opinion.

Maybe a year ago I stated on this forum, minimum wage should be a zero. Yeah, ZERO.

Why? Here is why: Min. wage increase always reduce number of jobs and increase unemployment, especially among young and unskilled. Raising min. wage also increase control over the access to available jobs.

I've never seen min. wage to be applied to high skilled jobs and it will never be. It's always set for the "introductory level" jobs, or trainees and it never stays at that level. Those tho are worth keeping get promoted and higher wage, those who are not productive are let go. If you understand this part, then you will most likely agree that what sets the wage is simply - marketplace. If there is demand for one kind of job, wage for that kind of labor will go up. If is too expensive to pay for worker's wage, worker will either lose the job or get lower wage.
If you involve government and artificially enforce higher pay, what will happen? Your work become more expensive for the employer, and if is not high demanding job (that is as I said above never paid low), you're most likely lose it.

Someone said that some states have higher min. wage then federal. If you look for those states you'll also find out that in those states the market sets pay at a higher wage than the laws demand. If your work is not worth how much government (or union) demand to pay for it, you become burden for the employer, simple as that.

Min. wage is subsidy to young, inexperienced, or unskilled workers that gov't levied on small businesses, just like the tax increase and every time gov't increase min. wage, unemployment rise as well. There could be short term benefit to those who get pay increase, but it wont last or it will last as long the employer find the solution to make up for the loses.

M2c.

 

[DiamondDave]

My point exactly. A person might be able to get by with one modest yacht, one Manhattan penthouse condo, two exotic cars and an couple of servants.

Except those things are not given, they are earned... and you are allowed to strive for more than the basics, earn to purchase them... much different than being given something for nothing

How does one 'earn' what the richest have? At that level, it only comes from siphoning off the fruits of other people's labor. I can see having 20 times normal. Maybe even 100 times normal for the real exceptions like Steve Jobs, Walt Disney, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison... How does someone like Mitt Romney do it? Vulture capitalism.

You think you can do the job of a CEO?? Go ahead and start a company and see what you got... Nothing is stopping you... You have a problem with compensation, but it is not like CEO skills are as common as VD in your family... You in your 'infinite wisdom' think you get to dictate a limit on what someone can or should make, and that is against the freedom this country is based on... and you can go **** yourself

 

[zeke]

Minimun wage is no longer just for the no skill, no experience worker. By having a low min, wage you can depress the wages paid for more skilled, more experienced worker.

For instance, If I am hiring laborers and have to pay a minimum wage worker 9 bucks an hour, then I can hardly pay my better, more experienced worker only 10 bucks and hour. Wage deferential is to close to have a happy, better worker.

But if I am paying 7.5 for labor, my 9 dollar guy is not complaining for more than 10 bucks an hour.

Now this low minimum wage is good for the company. Not so good for the worker.

Who's side are you on is the real question. Not whether or not increasing the minimum wage will help the economy. Of course it will, because every worker knows their wages are based on a floor. And if the floor is rising, than more than likely, their wages will have an upside as well.

Don't forget, there has not been any real increase in wages for the middle class and such for many many years.

Meanwhile, the ultra wealthy have never controlled as much wealth, had as much income, or been treated so favorably by the tax code. All brought to us by the politicians that the ultra wealthy bought.

 

[zeke]

Except those things are not given, they are earned... and you are allowed to strive for more than the basics, earn to purchase them... much different than being given something for nothing

How does one 'earn' what the richest have? At that level, it only comes from siphoning off the fruits of other people's labor. I can see having 20 times normal. Maybe even 100 times normal for the real exceptions like Steve Jobs, Walt Disney, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison... How does someone like Mitt Romney do it? Vulture capitalism.

You think you can do the job of a CEO?? Go ahead and start a company and see what you got... Nothing is stopping you... You have a problem with compensation, but it is not like CEO skills are as common as VD in your family... You in your 'infinite wisdom' think you get to dictate a limit on what someone can or should make, and that is against the freedom this country is based on... and you can go **** yourself

Interesting question. Lets take a CEO that is in the news right now. Jamie Dimon of JP Morgan Chase..
The guy whose company lied to investors about the quality of the mortgage loans in the mortgage backed securities they were selling.

The guy who is getting a bonus of millions right now.

Could I have lied and committed fraud like he did and be paid tens of millions of dollars?

YOU'RE GOD DAMN RIGHT I COULD HAVE DONE THAT. What do you think is so hard about lying and cheating for million of dollars in gains?

 

[DiamondDave]

How does one 'earn' what the richest have? At that level, it only comes from siphoning off the fruits of other people's labor. I can see having 20 times normal. Maybe even 100 times normal for the real exceptions like Steve Jobs, Walt Disney, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison... How does someone like Mitt Romney do it? Vulture capitalism.

You think you can do the job of a CEO?? Go ahead and start a company and see what you got... Nothing is stopping you... You have a problem with compensation, but it is not like CEO skills are as common as VD in your family... You in your 'infinite wisdom' think you get to dictate a limit on what someone can or should make, and that is against the freedom this country is based on... and you can go **** yourself

Interesting question. Lets take a CEO that is in the news right now. Jamie Dimon of JP Morgan Chase..
The guy whose company lied to investors about the quality of the mortgage loans in the mortgage backed securities they were selling.

The guy who is getting a bonus of millions right now.

Could I have lied and committed fraud like he did and be paid tens of millions of dollars?

YOU'RE GOD DAMN RIGHT I COULD HAVE DONE THAT. What do you think is so hard about lying and cheating for million of dollars in gains?

False premise thinking the thing a CEO does is lie and commit fraud... Can they be criminals like any other person? Yes... Is that the skills and experience they possess to be a CEO?? No

But nice try

 

[Bern80]

How does one 'earn' what the richest have? At that level, it only comes from siphoning off the fruits of other people's labor. I can see having 20 times normal. Maybe even 100 times normal for the real exceptions like Steve Jobs, Walt Disney, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison... How does someone like Mitt Romney do it? Vulture capitalism.

You think you can do the job of a CEO?? Go ahead and start a company and see what you got... Nothing is stopping you... You have a problem with compensation, but it is not like CEO skills are as common as VD in your family... You in your 'infinite wisdom' think you get to dictate a limit on what someone can or should make, and that is against the freedom this country is based on... and you can go **** yourself

Interesting question. Lets take a CEO that is in the news right now. Jamie Dimon of JP Morgan Chase..
The guy whose company lied to investors about the quality of the mortgage loans in the mortgage backed securities they were selling.

The guy who is getting a bonus of millions right now.

Could I have lied and committed fraud like he did and be paid tens of millions of dollars?

YOU'RE GOD DAMN RIGHT I COULD HAVE DONE THAT. What do you think is so hard about lying and cheating for million of dollars in gains?

I don't think you'll get any arguments that what he did was wrong. Just be honest enough to not hold him up and pretend his behavior is common of CEO's.

 

[Bern80]

Some DIY (bet libs don't even know what that stands for) for improving your income stream.

Take Note of These 5 Frugal Habits of the Rich - Yahoo! News

 

[ScreamingEagle]

How does one 'earn' what the richest have? At that level, it only comes from siphoning off the fruits of other people's labor. I can see having 20 times normal. Maybe even 100 times normal for the real exceptions like Steve Jobs, Walt Disney, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison... How does someone like Mitt Romney do it? Vulture capitalism.

You think you can do the job of a CEO?? Go ahead and start a company and see what you got... Nothing is stopping you... You have a problem with compensation, but it is not like CEO skills are as common as VD in your family... You in your 'infinite wisdom' think you get to dictate a limit on what someone can or should make, and that is against the freedom this country is based on... and you can go **** yourself

Interesting question. Lets take a CEO that is in the news right now. Jamie Dimon of JP Morgan Chase..
The guy whose company lied to investors about the quality of the mortgage loans in the mortgage backed securities they were selling.

The guy who is getting a bonus of millions right now.

Could I have lied and committed fraud like he did and be paid tens of millions of dollars?

YOU'RE GOD DAMN RIGHT I COULD HAVE DONE THAT. What do you think is so hard about lying and cheating for million of dollars in gains?

where the hell do you think the banksters are getting all that front money......?

BO is printing it day and night....

 

[Dubya]

You think you can do the job of a CEO?? Go ahead and start a company and see what you got... Nothing is stopping you... You have a problem with compensation, but it is not like CEO skills are as common as VD in your family... You in your 'infinite wisdom' think you get to dictate a limit on what someone can or should make, and that is against the freedom this country is based on... and you can go **** yourself

Interesting question. Lets take a CEO that is in the news right now. Jamie Dimon of JP Morgan Chase..
The guy whose company lied to investors about the quality of the mortgage loans in the mortgage backed securities they were selling.

The guy who is getting a bonus of millions right now.

Could I have lied and committed fraud like he did and be paid tens of millions of dollars?

YOU'RE GOD DAMN RIGHT I COULD HAVE DONE THAT. What do you think is so hard about lying and cheating for million of dollars in gains?

where the hell do you think the banksters are getting all that front money......?

BO is printing it day and night....

Why don't you check the balance sheet for the Federal Reserve, because they can account for all the money. Making money by printing it is another conservative myth, which is a polite way of saying lie.