Obama Ukranian Response Thread and Poll

[Luddly Neddite]

So far, he has done exactly the right thing. rw's don't like it because it puts human beings first.

I posted this in the military forum but, apparently people didn't quite get the implications as they apply to Putin's sliltting his own wrists.

The U.S. spent more on defense in 2012 than did the countries with the next 10 highest defense budgets combined - See more at: U.S. defense spending compared to other countries | pgpf.org

 

[bendog]

At the least, he keeps the crimea in his physical control; his masses are satisfied, and the EU will keep buying his gas, and the Ukraine likely will never be included in nato.

Neither this nor Georgia were entirely the makings of the potus at the time, but the EU lacks the will to do much of anything. Hopefully, the help us seize his personal loot, though.

 

[SmedlyButler]

Russia has a monopoly on natural gas in Europe. Won't work.

Not really accurate. Russia's importance as a gas supplier is waning:

"Russia is Europe's biggest supplier of natural gas, but the continent has been weaning itself off dependence on its neighbour for the last decade."

"It now imports less than 30% of its natural gas from Russia, compared with 45% in 2003, according to European Union statistics."

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: Europe?s stored gas high as prices soar

.

30% is more than enough to influence Europe's short term economic self interest. If they won't commit to protecting their own backyard how far should America go to do it for them?

 

[SmedlyButler]

America doesn't need a Teddy Roosevelt with a big stick. In this situation potus doesn't have one laying around anyway.

 

[Decus]

Russia has a monopoly on natural gas in Europe. Won't work.

Not really accurate. Russia's importance as a gas supplier is waning:

"Russia is Europe's biggest supplier of natural gas, but the continent has been weaning itself off dependence on its neighbour for the last decade."

"It now imports less than 30% of its natural gas from Russia, compared with 45% in 2003, according to European Union statistics."

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: Europe?s stored gas high as prices soar

.

30% is more than enough to influence Europe's short term economic self interest. If they won't commit to protecting their own backyard how far should America go to do it for them?

You may be right given the EU's tendency towards appeasement. However Putin has done this before and it would be a mistake to allow him to continue to wield cutting off gas supplies as a means of control over the EU. Russia's economy could seriously implode if a firm stand was taken against the Russian economy. Putin would have to back down or face an economic downturn and serious social unrest in Russia.

.

 

[Avatar4321]

I think it's too late for him to do anything. The best thing he could have done was show a strong front. Sanctions may be necessary.

But quite frankly, I don't believe we have a position of strength any more right now. We need to cleanse the inner vessel before we even think of considering military action.

I fully expect this man to start world war 3.

 

[NoNukes]

He should see what America's European allies are going to do before a decision is made.

He should lead from the rear

Hmmmkay

He's President of the USA, not Prime Minister of Botswana

He should be part of it, not leading on his own. Your responce is idiotic.

 

[Avatar4321]

He should see what America's European allies are going to do before a decision is made.

They will be scheduling a UN conference...maybe in a hotel in Belize...free booze and prostitutes available.

What is the point of a UN Conference? Russia has veto power. it makes the UN absolutely worthless here.

(not that they are very useful other times)

 

[NoNukes]

Obama needs our help

What should Obama do about Putin's Sudetenlandization of the Ukraine?

The Obama For America trolls at USMB will report the results back to their handlers

In a major crisis of this proportion I think every American should examine their visceral reactions very closely. There are not many realistic options available to Obama. The Europeans have their own set of priorities, Russian gas and resources for example. I think, or hope we're all agreed a military response is off the table. Putin knows this. That leaves diplomacy. Every American reponse looks futile without European cooperation especially from France and Germany.

Obama's options are also limited by opposition within America. I think the seriousness of the crisis requires at least a temporary show of unity, give the Commander in Chief a little space to deall with Putin who is obviously relishing the sniping the president is under going from his own citizens. It's a time to give the Commander in Chief all the support possible, and if not support at least silence. It's an old caution, a house divided cannot stand.

The President will never recieve this support, and Putin knows it.

 

[Avatar4321]

If we jump in on the side of Ukraine we've jumped into the third world war. China will likely makes it move onto Russia's side once we do.

I dont know if they will jump in on Russia's side, but they certainly will be invading their own neighbors.

 

[Avatar4321]

Obama needs our help

What should Obama do about Putin's Sudetenlandization of the Ukraine?

The Obama For America trolls at USMB will report the results back to their handlers

It's obvious that Obama should nuke Russia. Why wasn't that a choice?

According to Secretary Kerry, everything is on the table. So it is a choice.

 

[Star]

I don't see where that treaty was broken or any recourse if broken.

First clause.

The U.S. can't support a Revolution in Ukraine and then set up puppet rulers while complaining Russia isn't respecting Ukraine by being invited into Crimea.

But-----but I don't think President Obama should stand by and do nothing, IMO the President should sell Ukraine the billions of dollars worth of make-work tanks that congress forced the Army to buy and-----and President Obama should sweet talk Ukraine into buying a bunch of F-35's, i.e. the most expensive military program ever and maybe-----just maybe we can recover enough money in the sale to be only 50% over budget for an unnecessary program? and-----and perhaps, with a little luck, the Ukrainians can learn to fly them without crashing then-----then teach us how it's done.

*Twofer - satisfy our treaty obligation and cut the deficit that is already going down under President Obama, win-win.
.

 

[Avatar4321]

Yes it is. We did sign a treaty with ukraine in 1994 to protect them after they gave up their nuclear stockpile.

Let's worry about keeping our promise to Native Americans before we worry about Russians.

So in addition to us breaking treaties with the natives we should just follow it up and break treaties as recent as 20 years ago with allies? And this is going to give us good standing in the world? Lol. You guys are a hoot.

That's the dilemna isn't it?

Do we break our treaty? Or do we go to a war we aren't prepared for over the Ukraine?

Are either of these choices really fabulous?

I am thinking we need to prepare to defend ourselves.

 

[Avatar4321]

First clause.

The U.S. can't support a Revolution in Ukraine and then set up puppet rulers while complaining Russia isn't respecting Ukraine by being invited into Crimea.

But-----but I don't think President Obama should stand by and do nothing, IMO the President should sell Ukraine the billions of dollars worth of make-work tanks that congress forced the Army to buy and-----and President Obama should sweet talk Ukraine into buying a bunch of F-35's, i.e. the most expensive military program ever and maybe-----just maybe we can recover enough money in the sale to be only 50% over budget for an unnecessary program? and-----and perhaps, with a little luck, the Ukrainians can learn to fly them without crashing then-----then teach us how it's done.

*Twofer - satisfy our treaty obligation and cut the deficit that is already going down under President Obama, win-win.
.

Not a meritless proposition.

 

[Avatar4321]

He should see what America's European allies are going to do before a decision is made.

That's not leadership. That's letting other people make the choices and jumping on the bandwagon.

 

[Avatar4321]

What should he do? Resign office for this disgrace and apologize to the American people, leaving in his stead the much more competent Joe Biden.

What will he do? Give speeches wagging his finger and declaring this time he means it, really. Then he'll refer the matter to the UN, NATO, and anyone else he can slough responsibility off on.

Sad day we live in when Biden is the more competant choice.

 

[Edgetho]

Nothing. Its none of his or the US's business.

Yes it is. We did sign a treaty with ukraine in 1994 to protect them after they gave up their nuclear stockpile.

Technically, it was a 'memorandum'.

A treaty is usually submitted to the US Senate for ratification.

It wasn't even an 'Executive Agreement' to my knowledge. Although I could be incorrect on that one.

But anyway, dimocrap scum have no respect for Treaties. Never have, never will.

They are the scum of the Earth. Think they give a **** about keeping their word?

yeah, right.

I truly believe that if we had had a real man, a decent man in office, this thing could have been avoided.

Yeah, Putin isn't going to give up his Crimean Port where the Russian Black Sea Fleet is Stationed. That ain't gonna happen.

But a real man could be working with Putin to try to find a way for Ukraine to cede Crimea to Russia without the use of Russian Military Force.

I'm telling you, people...... Putin wants to shove this up obama's ass.... Wait, bad analogy....the lying ********** in chief would probably enjoy that....

He wants to shove it down his throat..... No, he'd like that too. Up his nose? Nah, he' dig that. Embarrass him? How do you embarrass a whore? You can't.

Humiliate him? How do you humiliate an individual with no pride, no honor, no courage....

Anyway, Putin wants to show obama for what he is.... A gutless, mouthy, dishonorable punk who can't do shit other than talk.

Unfortunately, that punk is our president, thanks to dimocrap scum voters.

What's more to shame is that.... It won't be us who gets hurt in all this.... It will be the Ukrainians. All they want is a shot at freedom, a shot at Capitalism (same thing, really) a shot to be more than just pig farmers in Putin's attempt to revive the Soviet Union.

That's what happens when dimocraps control the presidency Shit like this.

Suck on it dimocraps...... No... Wait....

 

[SmedlyButler]

Not really accurate. Russia's importance as a gas supplier is waning:

"Russia is Europe's biggest supplier of natural gas, but the continent has been weaning itself off dependence on its neighbour for the last decade."

"It now imports less than 30% of its natural gas from Russia, compared with 45% in 2003, according to European Union statistics."

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: Europe?s stored gas high as prices soar

.

30% is more than enough to influence Europe's short term economic self interest. If they won't commit to protecting their own backyard how far should America go to do it for them?

You may be right given the EU's tendency towards appeasement. However Putin has done this before and it would be a mistake to allow him to continue to wield cutting off gas supplies as a means of control over the EU. Russia's economy could seriously implode if a firm stand was taken against the Russian economy. Putin would have to back down or face an economic downturn and serious social unrest in Russia.

.

Russia's economy is vulnerable. Europe has to leverage this fact in it's response to Putin.

LINK:Russia's aggression triggers a Russian market dive.

"Russia's financial system punished Vladimir Putin far more swiftly than western diplomacy on Monday, as the Moscow stock market suffered one of its biggest one-day falls in recent years and the rouble tumbled sharply in a first nervous reaction to the Kremlin's gambit in Crimea.
Some £34bn was wiped off the value of companies on the Moscow stock exchange on Monday and the central bank burned through an estimated £10bn of its reserves propping up its currency as investors took fright at the most serious standoff between Russia and Ukraine since the fall of the Soviet Union.
The bank was also forced to raise its main interest rate from 5.5% to 7% – the largest hike since financial crisis ruined Russia in 1998."

 

[R.C. Christian]

I have an idea: Leave Russia and the Ukraine alone. This was U.S. foreign policy coup and an attack on Russia. Of course they're going to respond.

 

[SmedlyButler]

Your willingness to let Ukraine cede the Crimea is very noble. That might be unavoidable but Potus isn't as willing as you to concede that just yet. Tallk about Chamberlain, you wield his umbrella admirably. Need a tampon?