Obama Signs Law Banning Federal Embryo Research Two Days After Signing Executive Orde

[DiveCon]

Of course you read it that way. You don't know anything about this, so you make up your own version of it.

well then smartass.. how did you read it?

The title of the CBS News article was misleading. The federal government can't be getting involved in killing the embryos. They are still doing ESCR though.

its not a CBS story
you dont read very well do you

 

[DiveCon]

Seems fairly straight forward to me. He didn't make any mistake or error in signing both items.

When he lifted the ban on doing embryonic stem cell research that is what he did. He lifed the ban. How hard is that.

The second item where he says it wont't be federally funded.

In understanding the english language they are different directives. One allows research the second says the government will not pay for it. What is the problem?

there was no ban on embryonic stem cell research
just the federal funding of it

 

[DiveCon]

Seems fairly straight forward to me. He didn't make any mistake or error in signing both items.

When he lifted the ban on doing embryonic stem cell research that is what he did. He lifed the ban. How hard is that.

The second item where he says it wont't be federally funded.

In understanding the english language they are different directives. One allows research the second says the government will not pay for it. What is the problem?

You misunderstand. It was never banned, this is a Democrat talking point.

Adult stem cell research was not banned. Enbryonic stem cell research was. Now it is not banned but it will not be funded. I don't much care about the Dems since I stand firmly in the socialist corner.

NO< it wasnt banned
just the federal FUNDING of it
you could use PRIVATE funds and do it all you wanted

 

[Cecilie1200]

Again, the conservatives try to trick us. Obama un-banned federal funding of research in embryonic stem cells. The sky's the limit and people can do whatever they want as far as research of these stem cells goes.

But in order to do the research, you must "kill" the embryo... so even these embryos would die anyway because they're from fertility clinics (of course the connies don't tell you that) the government cannot pay for their "destruction." That's basically federal funded "murder." The labs will have to destroy the embryos with their own money.

You're babbling even more than usual.

Which conservatives are trying to trick you? The ones who never banned federal funding of ESCR in the first place (because allowing for federal funding for ESCR for the first time ever is hardly a "ban")? The ones who convinced you to erroneously claim that all embryos used in ESCR are from fertility clinics, which isn't even remotely true? The ones who convinced Obama to sign a bill completely reversing his own executive order (because we all know how riddled with conservatives his administration is )? Or the ones who somehow convinced you you wouldn't sound like a fool trying to blame Obama's mistake on apocryphal conservatives?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Seems fairly straight forward to me. He didn't make any mistake or error in signing both items.

When he lifted the ban on doing embryonic stem cell research that is what he did. He lifed the ban. How hard is that.

The second item where he says it wont't be federally funded.

In understanding the english language they are different directives. One allows research the second says the government will not pay for it. What is the problem?

Um, the fact that there was NEVER any federal ban on doing embryonic stem cell research at all. I know leftist twits love to pretend that President Bush made ESCR illegal, and many of them are probably ignorant and gullible enough to really believe it, but then, being a liberal is defined as knowing lots of things that aren't so, isn't it?

The only "ban" Obama could have lifted from the Bush Administration - which wasn't really a "ban" at all - concerned federal funding of ESCR.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Seems fairly straight forward to me. He didn't make any mistake or error in signing both items.

When he lifted the ban on doing embryonic stem cell research that is what he did. He lifed the ban. How hard is that.

The second item where he says it wont't be federally funded.

In understanding the english language they are different directives. One allows research the second says the government will not pay for it. What is the problem?

You misunderstand. It was never banned, this is a Democrat talking point.

Adult stem cell research was not banned. Enbryonic stem cell research was. Now it is not banned but it will not be funded. I don't much care about the Dems since I stand firmly in the socialist corner.

NO stem cell research has ever been banned. It has always been legal to research stem cell techniques using any sort of stem cells you like. Under the Bush administration, for the very first time ever, you could get federal funding for stem cell research using embryonic stem cells . . . provided they involved previously existing lines. Obama expanded this ability to use federal funding to all embryonic stem cell research, and then apparently signed a bill rescinding that ability.

Please try to pull your head out of leftist dreams of oppression and live in reality.

 

[Care4all]

the Dickey Amendment has been around a decade, it bans the cloning or human embryos for reproduction of a human being.... it bans embryos from being cloned as well...

this will not hurt embryonic stem cell research funding.

the embryo is not cloned in stem cell research, the stem cells are duplicated/cloned....is my understanding.

care


NOTE
Well i'll be damned, i just looked up the amendment and you are right, it looks like it does ban embryonic research from being funding? there could be an amendment to the amendment though, so let mee keep googling...

FOUND THIS:

On its face, the Dickey Amendment would seem to close the question of federal funding of embryonic stem cell research, since obtaining stem cells for such research relies upon the destruction of human embryos. But in 2000, a legal finding by the General Counsel of the Department of Health and Human Services (under President Clinton) argued that the wording of the law might allow for a loophole by which human embryonic stem cell research could be funded. If embryos were first destroyed with private funding, then subsequent research employing the derived embryonic stem cells (propagated in tissue culture) might be considered eligible for federal funding. Because such research would require no new embryo destruction, the Department&#8217;s lawyers suggested, the legal requirement not to fund research &#8220;in which&#8221; embryos were destroyed would still technically be obeyed.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I've done a lot of research on this and I would really appreciate it if the conservatives AND the liberals on here would listen to me. I'm only going to post facts - no opinions.

This right here is why no one ever listens to you. You claim to have done "research" and promise facts, then follow up with bullshit. Write this down somewhere: reading leftist propaganda websites does NOT constitute "research".

#1 - You have to get used to the term "waste embryos." When a woman undergoes IVF (in vitro fertilization) on average about 15-30 eggs are fertilized and become embryos. Obviously a woman cannot have 15-30 babies, so only two or three embryos are placed in the womb for pregnancy. The remaining embryos are "discarded."

Lie. The majority of embryos created for the purpose of IVF remain in storage for the use of the woman/couple for whom they were made. This is because 1) IVF is usually not successful on the first attempt, and requires several more attempts before it takes, if it does at all, and 2) there's always the possibility that even after they manage to have a child, they will want more in the future. Of those not kept for the use of the woman/couple, some are donated for other people to use in their IVF attempts because they cannot create their own for some reason, some are donated to scientific research, and a very small percentage are discarded at the owner's direction (the owner being the woman/couple for whom they were originally created).

#2 - Embryonic stem cell research is taking those embryos from being just bio-haz waste material that's thrown away and actually puts them in labs where the stem cells from the embryos can be harvested and they can cure multiple diseases, we believe.

Lie. First of all, even if every single embryo created for IVF purposes were used for ESCR, there still wouldn't be enough of them without also creating more specifically for use in ESCR. Second, ESCR does not "take embryos that would be thrown away" from IVF clinics, because it can't. That would be illegal, because if the owners specify that the embryo should be discarded, doing anything else with it would constitute theft. In actuality, the only embryos from IVF clinics being used in ESCR are those specifically donated to that purpose by the owners.

#3 - In order to harvest the stem cells from the embryo, the embryo must be destroyed. There are, however, different methods of research which allow the embryonic stem cells to be researched WITHOUT destroying the embryo. Human embryonic stem cell lines derived from single blastomeres : Abstract : Nature

You finally got something right, although I noticed you didn't mention that non-destructive techniques wouldn't exist if it had been left up to leftists like you.

#4 - During the past two decades, over 1 million embryos have been destroyed without one second of research being done towards embryonic stem cells. IVF clinics destroy 1m &lsquo;waste&rsquo; embryos - Times Online

So? I know why I object to that, but I don't see what your problem is, unless you somehow mistakenly believe that you are, or should be, entitled to take the property of others to use as you wish. Not being able to actually access your cited story, I can't speak to whether or not their numbers are correct.

#5 - Unless you are completely against IVF, which few are, then you are FOR the destruction of embryos.

That's all you know. Quite a few people who oppose ESCR have also come to disapprove of certain aspects of IVF as well.

#6 - Obama banned the federal funding of DESTRUCTION of embryos. He has signed into law the federal funding of the stem cells harvested from embryos. As stated above, there are methods to harvest them that wouldn't destroy the stem cells. Additionally, other money can be allotted to destroy the stem cells, which is far less money needed to actually do the research on the stem cells that have been harvested.

So what you're saying is that Obama really conducted a fake-out here, first enabling ALL federal funding of ESCR so that he could get accolades, and then quietly restricting the funding to only the activities happening AFTER the embryo is destroyed, so that he can do a Clintonesque word-parsing? Next, he'll be telling us it depends on what the definition of "is" is.

#7 - Destruction of embryos and embryonic stem cell research are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. We finally have federally funded embryonic stem cell research!

You had federally-funded embryonic stem cell research before (which ALSO was limited only to the activities happening after the embryo was already destroyed, and that limit was most of the reason your ilk bitched about it, but NOW that sort of sidestepping is being hailed as brilliant and wonderful. Hypocrites). You just didn't have as much as you wanted.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I've done a lot of research on this and I would really appreciate it if the conservatives AND the liberals on here would listen to me. I'm only going to post facts - no opinions.

#1 - You have to get used to the term "waste embryos." When a woman undergoes IVF (in vitro fertilization) on average about 15-30 eggs are fertilized and become embryos. Obviously a woman cannot have 15-30 babies, so only two or three embryos are placed in the womb for pregnancy. The remaining embryos are "discarded."

#2 - Embryonic stem cell research is taking those embryos from being just bio-haz waste material that's thrown away and actually puts them in labs where the stem cells from the embryos can be harvested and they can cure multiple diseases, we believe.

#3 - In order to harvest the stem cells from the embryo, the embryo must be destroyed. There are, however, different methods of research which allow the embryonic stem cells to be researched WITHOUT destroying the embryo. Human embryonic stem cell lines derived from single blastomeres : Abstract : Nature

#4 - During the past two decades, over 1 million embryos have been destroyed without one second of research being done towards embryonic stem cells. IVF clinics destroy 1m &lsquo;waste&rsquo; embryos - Times Online

#5 - Unless you are completely against IVF, which few are, then you are FOR the destruction of embryos.

None of which answers my questions. And none of which admits that this has been LIED about for eight years. Bush NEVER banned any research.

No one has lied to you about that. People may have mis-understood, but Bush never banned the research from taking place - he banned the federal funding of such. Now we have federal funding and thankfully tens of billions of dollars will be invested in saving millions of lives! This is a wonderful thing!

Also a lie. He didn't "ban" federal funding either. On the contrary, he was the first President to allow any federal funding of ESCR at all. It was just limited in scope. And now you're dancing in the streets about what is, essentially, the same sort of limitation.

What's wonderful is watching hypocrites like you show your true colors.

 

[Care4all]

None of which answers my questions. And none of which admits that this has been LIED about for eight years. Bush NEVER banned any research.

No one has lied to you about that. People may have mis-understood, but Bush never banned the research from taking place - he banned the federal funding of such. Now we have federal funding and thankfully tens of billions of dollars will be invested in saving millions of lives! This is a wonderful thing!

Also a lie. He didn't "ban" federal funding either. On the contrary, he was the first President to allow any federal funding of ESCR at all. It was just limited in scope. And now you're dancing in the streets about what is, essentially, the same sort of limitation.

What's wonderful is watching hypocrites like you show your true colors.

FYI
84% OF left over embryos are killed when the parents are done with their children...

Andrea Gurmankin of Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey, and colleagues sent anonymous questionnaires to the heads of almost 350 IVF clinics, asking what they did with the extra embryos. The results will appear in next month's Politics and the Life Sciences1.

A total of 217 clinics responded to the questionnaire, describing a hodge-podge of practices based on varying ethical frameworks.

About 3% of clinics managed to avoid creating superfluous embryos. Some 16% of the clinics that created extra embryos refused to dispose of them, often because of religious reasons, state laws, or from fear of being sued. These clinics kept the embryos frozen forever or donated them to other infertile couples.

Varied fates

The approaches of the 175 clinics that did dispose of extra embryos varied in the extreme. Some handed the tiny ball of cells over to the couple or individual to take home, whereas some incinerated them as biological waste. Of the clinics that incinerated the embryos, four required the presence of the couple while twenty-five clinics forbade it. Seven clinics even said a prayer during disposal in a quasi-funeral, according to Arthur Caplan, a co-author of the study from the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia.

The majority of clinics surveyed donate extra embryos to research institutions, with the permission of the couple or individual involved, although the clinics varied in the level of consent that was required and how this was obtained.

 

[Gunny]

Again, the conservatives try to trick us. Obama un-banned federal funding of research in embryonic stem cells. The sky's the limit and people can do whatever they want as far as research of these stem cells goes.

But in order to do the research, you must "kill" the embryo... so even these embryos would die anyway because they're from fertility clinics (of course the connies don't tell you that) the government cannot pay for their "destruction." That's basically federal funded "murder." The labs will have to destroy the embryos with their own money.

Just for clarification ... are you saying killing an embryo is murder?

 

[Gunny]

Seems fairly straight forward to me. He didn't make any mistake or error in signing both items.

When he lifted the ban on doing embryonic stem cell research that is what he did. He lifed the ban. How hard is that.

The second item where he says it wont't be federally funded.

In understanding the english language they are different directives. One allows research the second says the government will not pay for it. What is the problem?

The problem would be we already had that.

 

[Gunny]

Seems fairly straight forward to me. He didn't make any mistake or error in signing both items.

When he lifted the ban on doing embryonic stem cell research that is what he did. He lifed the ban. How hard is that.

The second item where he says it wont't be federally funded.

In understanding the english language they are different directives. One allows research the second says the government will not pay for it. What is the problem?

You misunderstand. It was never banned, this is a Democrat talking point.

Adult stem cell research was not banned. Enbryonic stem cell research was. Now it is not banned but it will not be funded. I don't much care about the Dems since I stand firmly in the socialist corner.

Neither research was banned. Federal funding was banned.

 

[Gunny]

I've done a lot of research on this and I would really appreciate it if the conservatives AND the liberals on here would listen to me. I'm only going to post facts - no opinions.

#1 - You have to get used to the term "waste embryos." When a woman undergoes IVF (in vitro fertilization) on average about 15-30 eggs are fertilized and become embryos. Obviously a woman cannot have 15-30 babies, so only two or three embryos are placed in the womb for pregnancy. The remaining embryos are "discarded."

#2 - Embryonic stem cell research is taking those embryos from being just bio-haz waste material that's thrown away and actually puts them in labs where the stem cells from the embryos can be harvested and they can cure multiple diseases, we believe.

#3 - In order to harvest the stem cells from the embryo, the embryo must be destroyed. There are, however, different methods of research which allow the embryonic stem cells to be researched WITHOUT destroying the embryo. Human embryonic stem cell lines derived from single blastomeres : Abstract : Nature

#4 - During the past two decades, over 1 million embryos have been destroyed without one second of research being done towards embryonic stem cells. IVF clinics destroy 1m &lsquo;waste&rsquo; embryos - Times Online

#5 - Unless you are completely against IVF, which few are, then you are FOR the destruction of embryos.

None of which answers my questions. And none of which admits that this has been LIED about for eight years. Bush NEVER banned any research.

No one has lied to you about that. People may have mis-understood, but Bush never banned the research from taking place - he banned the federal funding of such. Now we have federal funding and thankfully tens of billions of dollars will be invested in saving millions of lives! This is a wonderful thing!

Please. There is nothing wonderful about flushing tens of billions of dollars down the toilet. Might as well just give this money to a bank to reinvest in China like the rest.

Embryonic stem cell research has led to nothing since 1981.

 

[Gunny]

None of which answers my questions. And none of which admits that this has been LIED about for eight years. Bush NEVER banned any research.

No one has lied to you about that. People may have mis-understood, but Bush never banned the research from taking place - he banned the federal funding of such. Now we have federal funding and thankfully tens of billions of dollars will be invested in saving millions of lives! This is a wonderful thing!

You do not have funding. Have you not been reading? The executive order directs that he be given, in 120 days, a full summary of the use for the funding. They don't have a bill, Obama didn't write a check, they have no funding and WILL NOT have, due to Dickey-Wicker amendment which was in the Omnibus spending bill which Obama just signed.

So essentially, nothing has been done.

Now, where's the private funding over the last eight years for this important, urgent work?

And YES THEY DID lie about it for eight years. The news media, Hollywood sycophants, and Dem politicians ALL said Bush banned the research. They didn't elucidate that it was only federal funding Bush banned.

Thanks at least for the honesty regarding what Bush actually banned.

They like to conveniently subject-hop, and mix and match to purposefully confuse. Same goes with partial-birth abortion. The second it's mentioned, the pro-abortion crowd goes ga-ga yammering on about women's rights and blah, blah, blah .... Completely lost in all the smoke and mirrors act of misdirection and misinformation is that partial-birth abortion and a 1st trimester abortion are not the same things.

Just as adult stem cell research and embryonic stem cell research are not the same things.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

No one has lied to you about that. People may have mis-understood, but Bush never banned the research from taking place - he banned the federal funding of such. Now we have federal funding and thankfully tens of billions of dollars will be invested in saving millions of lives! This is a wonderful thing!

You do not have funding. Have you not been reading? The executive order directs that he be given, in 120 days, a full summary of the use for the funding. They don't have a bill, Obama didn't write a check, they have no funding and WILL NOT have, due to Dickey-Wicker amendment which was in the Omnibus spending bill which Obama just signed.

So essentially, nothing has been done.

Now, where's the private funding over the last eight years for this important, urgent work?

And YES THEY DID lie about it for eight years. The news media, Hollywood sycophants, and Dem politicians ALL said Bush banned the research. They didn't elucidate that it was only federal funding Bush banned.

Thanks at least for the honesty regarding what Bush actually banned.

They like to conveniently subject-hop, and mix and match to purposefully confuse. Same goes with partial-birth abortion. The second it's mentioned, the pro-abortion crowd goes ga-ga yammering on about women's rights and blah, blah, blah .... Completely lost in all the smoke and mirrors act of misdirection and misinformation is that partial-birth abortion and a 1st trimester abortion are not the same things.

Just as adult stem cell research and embryonic stem cell research are not the same things.

They also like to run off when confronted with truth, which they cannot deflect away from. Yer Boy DavidS is starting new threads all over the board, posting hither and yon, and adroitly avoiding this one because of the corner he painted himself into.

 

[Gunny]

You do not have funding. Have you not been reading? The executive order directs that he be given, in 120 days, a full summary of the use for the funding. They don't have a bill, Obama didn't write a check, they have no funding and WILL NOT have, due to Dickey-Wicker amendment which was in the Omnibus spending bill which Obama just signed.

So essentially, nothing has been done.

Now, where's the private funding over the last eight years for this important, urgent work?

And YES THEY DID lie about it for eight years. The news media, Hollywood sycophants, and Dem politicians ALL said Bush banned the research. They didn't elucidate that it was only federal funding Bush banned.

Thanks at least for the honesty regarding what Bush actually banned.

They like to conveniently subject-hop, and mix and match to purposefully confuse. Same goes with partial-birth abortion. The second it's mentioned, the pro-abortion crowd goes ga-ga yammering on about women's rights and blah, blah, blah .... Completely lost in all the smoke and mirrors act of misdirection and misinformation is that partial-birth abortion and a 1st trimester abortion are not the same things.

Just as adult stem cell research and embryonic stem cell research are not the same things.

They also like to run off when confronted with truth, which they cannot deflect away from. Yer Boy DavidS is starting new threads all over the board, posting hither and yon, and adroitly avoiding this one because of the corner he painted himself into.

If you are attempting to enlighten me with some up to this point hidden behavior of anyone, I shall take this opportunity to point out you are in fact only restating the obvious.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

They like to conveniently subject-hop, and mix and match to purposefully confuse. Same goes with partial-birth abortion. The second it's mentioned, the pro-abortion crowd goes ga-ga yammering on about women's rights and blah, blah, blah .... Completely lost in all the smoke and mirrors act of misdirection and misinformation is that partial-birth abortion and a 1st trimester abortion are not the same things.

Just as adult stem cell research and embryonic stem cell research are not the same things.

They also like to run off when confronted with truth, which they cannot deflect away from. Yer Boy DavidS is starting new threads all over the board, posting hither and yon, and adroitly avoiding this one because of the corner he painted himself into.

If you are attempting to enlighten me with some up to this point hidden behavior of anyone, I shall take this opportunity to point out you are in fact only restating the obvious.

Of course.

 

[garyd]

We now have at least a dozen and possibly two dozen ways to extract stemcells without even involving an embryos. All of these have proven quite useful in one way or another. To date no one anywhere in the world has managed to produce anything useful with embryonic stem cells with or without destroying the embryos.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

We now have at least a dozen and possibly two dozen ways to extract stemcells without even involving an embryos. All of these have proven quite useful in one way or another. To date no one anywhere in the world has managed to produce anything useful with embryonic stem cells with or without destroying the embryos.

Dr. Huang's work was bogus. False. Fraudulent. He's admitted it. It's hoaxscience.