Obama said no to American energy independence and yes to radical environmentalists

[dnsmith35]

If you know "a thing or two" about the oil industry then explain how this one pipeline is going to make the United States energy-independent.

When did anyone ever claim this pipeline would make the United States energy independent?

It's in the title of the thread.

Nothing in the OP says one pipeline will make the US energy independent. But that pipeline will move us in the right direction.

 

[Pogo]

Hmmm, 3/4 of the oil refined for US use already comes from the western hemisphere, and oil consumption is predicted to be pretty flat. Where's that crude gonna go?

Keystone Pipeline: Would oil be consumed in the U.S. or exported?

Where it is consumed is irrelevant, so long as we continue to move toward total energy independence; which includes all forms of energy to include wind, sun, wave, and non petroleum organic.

Correct. Which means that the Keystone pipeline is also irrelevant.

Again for the terminally dense: we get the oil we consume from the international oil market --- just like everybody else. We don't just skim off what we need out of a pipeline that happens to run through our back yard. Only the terminally naive think oil works that way. Unless you want to nationalize the oil companies.

 

[bendog]

When did anyone ever claim this pipeline would make the United States energy independent?

It's in the title of the thread.

Nothing in the OP says one pipeline will make the US energy independent. But that pipeline will move us in the right direction.

no, you're the one who stepped in the energy independence tar pit when you dumped all over pogo. Canadian oil does nothing about energy independence, nor does it do anything about the price of gas, because that supply is solely determined by the amount of oil refined here in the US. We're already refining at near capacity, and we're not building new refineries.

You might try to argue that increasing the amount of crude in the world market would make oil cheaper, but that would ignore the fact that Chinese demand will most likely outstrip any new supply.

The fact remains that oil companies want to put a pipeline over the western aquifers to make more profit. I'm all for profit, but the oil companies don't have a real good record on safety.

 

[Pogo]

I have to agree with you there. Why are you talking about things of which you know nothing? The malarkey is coming out of your "mouth" by the boat loads. The facts are, a pipeline from Canada and the Dakotas will surely increase our independence FROM Mid East Oil. As to Fox, I have never, nor do I contemplate getting my news from them. The issue is or should be only about not putting the pipeline through a water aquifer.

There is nothing wrong with big companies making big profits, and there is no reason to believe that the pipeline oil will be shipped to other countries. Construction jobs may come and go on one project, but if we play our cards right, the government will continue to up grade other infrastructure using that labor.

It is obvious you get YOUR NEWS FROM PROPAGANDA SITES. The difference between you and I? I am a liberal. You sound like a left wing fanatic.I am literate enough to know you were spouting left wing fanatic propaganda, and am smart enough to know that you know nothing about the subject.LMAO! Not liberal, left wing fanatic, because it is left wing fanatic propaganda which drives what little (very little) sense you have.Yep, you are a libtard fanatic.And you have jack squat for brains when you talk crap like that.Assume nothing! I have let you make the ass out of yourself.All acquisition of oil from this continent helps us become oil independent. Your ignorance of the subject shows just how smart you really aren't.So you think you can control what I say and to whom? ROTFLMAO. When I see people make stupid comments like you did, I reserve the right to tell him just how ignorant he is, and in this case you are as dumb as a post. Go play with the kindergartners, they are more your speed.

Apparently you're illiterate enough that you took a quote addressed to Hoosier4Liberty (unless you're a sock thereof) and proceeded to protest as if it had been addressed to you. In spite of the fact that you hand't even posted here then. Which was WEEKS ago, dumbass. And apparently you're so profoundly dumbass that you went ahead and re-answered the same post again -- the same one that was never addressed to you in the first place. Idiot.

It just got better and better from there; your quotes here are completely fucked up; you offer nothing but gainsaying and ad hominem; and you clearly don't know the topic from an oil well in the ground. You're clearly not qualified to post in the English language. Or probably any other.

Dismissed.

What ever, so long as I continue to know and post more intelligent and coherent assertions than you have or ever could post.

BTW, when I am responding to ad hominem you posted in kind, it is no longer ad hominem, it is pinning the tail where it belongs, on an idiot donkey called pogo.

Directly from the above:

The difference between you and I? I am a liberal. You sound like a left wing fanatic.I am literate enough to know you were spouting left wing fanatic propaganda, and am smart enough to know that you know nothing about the subject.LMAO! Not liberal, left wing fanatic, because it is left wing fanatic propaganda which drives what little (very little) sense you have.Yep, you are a libtard fanatic.And you have jack squat for brains when you talk crap like that.Assume nothing! I have let you make the ass out of yourself.All acquisition of oil from this continent helps us become oil independent. Your ignorance of the subject shows just how smart you really aren't.So you think you can control what I say and to whom? ROTFLMAO. When I see people make stupid comments like you did, I reserve the right to tell him just how ignorant he is, and in this case you are as dumb as a post. Go play with the kindergartners, they are more your speed

--- your first post in this thread, or any thread to me, ever.

Busted, dipshit.

 

[dnsmith35]

Hmmm, 3/4 of the oil refined for US use already comes from the western hemisphere, and oil consumption is predicted to be pretty flat. Where's that crude gonna go?

Keystone Pipeline: Would oil be consumed in the U.S. or exported?

Where it is consumed is irrelevant, so long as we continue to move toward total energy independence; which includes all forms of energy to include wind, sun, wave, and non petroleum organic.

Correct. Which means that the Keystone pipeline is also irrelevant.

Nope, because it moves us in the direction of energy independence.

Again for the terminally dense: we get the oil we consume from the international oil market --- just like everybody else. We don't just skim off what we need out of a pipeline that happens to run through our back yard. Only the terminally naive think oil works that way. Unless you want to nationalize the oil companies.

It doesn't matter where we actually get our oil, so long as we move toward energy independence giving us an edge in the world market and more control of oil prices. Terminally stupid idiots don't care about energy independence, and there is no reason to nationalize oil companies. Grow up and at least TRY TO LEARN SOMETHING other than what your puppet masters tell you to believe.

Therein lies the fallacy of your thinking; that you believe energy independence is not a good thing, or that any move in the direction of energy independence is not a good thing. And you wonder why people believe you are totally ignorant of the issue.

 

[bendog]

epic. Truly epic.

 

[dnsmith35]

Directly from the above:

DNSmith said, "The difference between you and I? I am a liberal. You sound like a left wing fanatic. I am literate enough to know you were spouting left wing fanatic propaganda, and am smart enough to know that you know nothing about the subject (of energy) LMAO! (You Pogo)are not liberal, (but a) left wing fanatic, because it is left wing fanatic propaganda which drives what little (very little) sense you have.Yep, you are a libtard fanatic.And you have jack squat for brains when you talk crap like that. (I)Assume nothing! I have let you make the ass out of yourself.All acquisition of oil from this continent helps us become oil independent. Your ignorance of the subject shows just how smart you really aren't.So you think you can control what I say and to whom? ROTFLMAO. When I see people make stupid comments like you did, I reserve the right to tell him just how ignorant he is, and in this case you are as dumb as a post. Go play with the kindergartners, they are more your speed"

XXXXX .--- your first post in this thread, or any thread to me, ever.

Busted, dipshit.

Yep, I said that, and it is still applicable. You are as dumb as a post and you have less than the mental capacity of a kindergartner.

 

[dnsmith35]

epic. Truly epic.

Maybe not epic, but factual never the less.

 

[initforme]

I hear people complaining that gas prices are too high and we need to drill for more oil. I can live with the drilling(as long as it is not within 250 miles of my house). What they fail to understand is the claim that if we could all of a sudden open up 100 more refineries and we drilled all our oil ourselves, gas prices will not go down. Big oil is not going to drop its prices while its making its monstrous profits. This pipeline may create some temporary jobs, but the fact is gas prices aren't going to go down because that would create less profit. To think otherwise is a complete fallacy. The so called free market worshippers are completely wrong here. Completely and absolutely wrong.

 

[dnsmith35]

I hear people complaining that gas prices are too high and we need to drill for more oil. I can live with the drilling(as long as it is not within 250 miles of my house). What they fail to understand is the claim that if we could all of a sudden open up 100 more refineries and we drilled all our oil ourselves, gas prices will not go down. Big oil is not going to drop its prices while its making its monstrous profits. This pipeline may create some temporary jobs, but the fact is gas prices aren't going to go down because that would create less profit. To think otherwise is a complete fallacy. The so called free market worshippers are completely wrong here. Completely and absolutely wrong.

Becoming energy independent is NOT ABOUT LOWER PRICES, though if we were petroleum independent, we would have more control over the world prices of crude. Oil companies actually make a lower ration of profit to investment P/I than most companies. Oil companies make HUGE $$$ PROFITS, NOT HUGE RETURN ON INVESTMENT. The strategic importance of energy independence trumps all the other concerns that come up about energy.

When we talk about consumption, many people want to PURPOSELY INCREASE THE PRICE OF GASOLINE AT THE PUMP, if nothing else by taxing fuel much higher than we do just like European countries do. What those people don't understand, or don't want to understand is, FUEL TAXES ARE REGRESSIVE, and hurt the poor working people the most as they are not the ones who can go out and buy a low fuel consumption new vehicle.

I drive an expedition, which is high consumption, because my wife and I are both unable to walk more than a few feet so we carry our electric mobility around with us. High taxes don't hurt us as much as the guy across the street who works and receives less income.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Morons might believe Obama said no to American energy independence and yes to radical environmentalists when in fact we are more energy independent since WWII.

 

[dnsmith35]

Morons might believe Obama said no to American energy independence and yes to radical environmentalists when in fact we are more energy independent since WWII.

We are, but do you really believe this happened because of Obama? Or is it in spite of Obama? The fact is, a pipe line from Canadian oil which goes around water aquifers will improve our independence. Don't forget, MORE does not mean we are there as 100% of 0 is still 0. I don't mean by that we are worse off, just that we have not yet arrived.

 

[dnsmith35]

Now, as to Pogo and all the other nay sayers, your points are insufficient to justify my continued presence. If you learn a little about the subject get back to me, but so far your ignorance does not impress me.

The first question which needs to be answered is, "WOULD ENERGY INDEPENDENCE BE GOOD FOR THE US?" If the answer is yes, then the obvious answer to the next question of, "WOULD A PIPELINE FROM CANADA AND THE DACOTAS HELP US MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION?" It follows then that we should build the pipeline providing it is located away from water aquifers.

Beyond that, there really is nothing else to discuss. Any argument to the contrary is just so much whining and crap.

 

[bripat9643]

I hear people complaining that gas prices are too high and we need to drill for more oil. I can live with the drilling(as long as it is not within 250 miles of my house). What they fail to understand is the claim that if we could all of a sudden open up 100 more refineries and we drilled all our oil ourselves, gas prices will not go down. Big oil is not going to drop its prices while its making its monstrous profits. This pipeline may create some temporary jobs, but the fact is gas prices aren't going to go down because that would create less profit. To think otherwise is a complete fallacy. The so called free market worshippers are completely wrong here. Completely and absolutely wrong.

How did gas prices drop from over $4.00/gal to $1.89 just before Obama's inauguration?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Morons might believe Obama said no to American energy independence and yes to radical environmentalists when in fact we are more energy independent since WWII.

We are, but do you really believe this happened because of Obama? Or is it in spite of Obama? The fact is, a pipe line from Canadian oil which goes around water aquifers will improve our independence. Don't forget, MORE does not mean we are there as 100% of 0 is still 0. I don't mean by that we are worse off, just that we have not yet arrived.

Don't take the math portion of your teacher training course, for you are not ready yet.

Yep, the pres gets the credit right along with the Congress and the states.

Far right wing nuts are being excluded from decision making as the primaries have been demonstrating this year.

Sux to be you.

 

[initforme]

"How did gas prices drop from over $4.00/gal to $1.89 just before Obama's inauguration?"


It never dropped to $1.89 per gallon where I live. I do not ascribe to the same crock of garbage that gas prices will come down because the omnipotent "free market" will dictate as such. Big oil is exclusive to the so called owned by the uber wealthy "free market" and operates under its own guise and code and the hard working middle class(I believe in class warfare) will take it on the chin. If we multiplied our own oil to 500 times what it is now and opened up 200 new refineries, gas prices don't come down or come down a tiny bit.

 

[dnsmith35]

Morons might believe Obama said no to American energy independence and yes to radical environmentalists when in fact we are more energy independent since WWII.

We are, but do you really believe this happened because of Obama? Or is it in spite of Obama? The fact is, a pipe line from Canadian oil which goes around water aquifers will improve our independence. Don't forget, MORE does not mean we are there as 100% of 0 is still 0. I don't mean by that we are worse off, just that we have not yet arrived.

Don't take the math portion of your teacher training course, for you are not ready yet.

I took the math portion and passed it with flying colors..

Yep, the pres gets the credit right along with the Congress and the states..

Some people give him credit, but a president has yet to be totally responsible for all of the good things or all of the bad things which has happened. Considering that exploration, determination of function, drilling, transporting, then refining the oil is a process which takes years, it could have been Reagan, or Clinton, or Bush or even Carter who is responsible for us producing more oil today than at the end of WWII. Try to digest a little reality in your quest for information..

Far right wing nuts are being excluded from decision making as the primaries have been demonstrating this year..

I do agree about the far right wingers being excluded in our primaries this year, and that is a good thing..

Sux to be you.

Not at all. I am 78, been married 59 years, have 6 kids, 14 grandchildren and as of yesterday, 8 great grandchildren. I have been retired for 27 years, gone back to graduate school, got an MBA with a major in economics, went on to get an Ed.S in Psychology (an important part of economics being human behavior) and learned that people like you are as dumb as a post.

 

[Pogo]

I hear people complaining that gas prices are too high and we need to drill for more oil. I can live with the drilling(as long as it is not within 250 miles of my house). What they fail to understand is the claim that if we could all of a sudden open up 100 more refineries and we drilled all our oil ourselves, gas prices will not go down. Big oil is not going to drop its prices while its making its monstrous profits. This pipeline may create some temporary jobs, but the fact is gas prices aren't going to go down because that would create less profit. To think otherwise is a complete fallacy. The so called free market worshippers are completely wrong here. Completely and absolutely wrong.

How did gas prices drop from over $4.00/gal to $1.89 just before Obama's inauguration?

Uh... while you were asleep the economy collapsed.

It's why John McCain never had a chance. Perhaps you've heard of him.

 

[Pogo]

Now, as to Pogo and all the other nay sayers, your points are insufficient to justify my continued presence.

Translation: he's been humiliated as an ignoramus and skulks away back to devote more time to snapping at Nurse Ratchet.


And now hear this dipshit: don't you EVER edit my posts. You've been reported, asshole.

 

[dnsmith35]

Now, as to Pogo and all the other nay sayers, your points are insufficient to justify my continued presence.

Translation: he's been humiliated as an ignoramus and skulks away back to devote more time to snapping at Nurse Ratchet.


And now hear this dipshit: don't you EVER edit my posts. You've been reported, asshole.

OK asshole, I did not edit your posts and I discussed this with the moderator you went whining to when I put points in (mostly to identify). You aren't smart enough to recognize the fact that I changed nothing of your comment and you proved my point that you have insufficient intelligence to carry on a reasonable discussion. In addition to which you don't understand the subject you were trying to discuss. You are incapable of humiliating me, as again, you are simply not intelligent enough.

One other thing, your post showed so much ignorance on your part, someone should correct them such that they are intelligible. Also, if you are so unsure of yourself that you need to cry to a moderator for every little point to which you object, why are you even trying to debate on an anonymous debate forum? ROTFLMAF