obama just committed political suicide.

[Dr Grump]

I can't believe this is still and argument! The fundemental difference between a gun rights activist and a gun control activist is the trust in ones government. You gun grabber actually trust a governement full of crooks, thieves, liars and elitists over your neighbors. Your support for gun control is purely based on emotion and nothing more. There is hardly any evidence or statistics to back up your views or to justify your emotions. You people need to base your emotions on facts instead of basing facts on emotions.

Do you know Chicago had a virtual ban on handguns for decades yet they are one of the most violent cities in the U.S. ???

Do you know that Australia confiscated its guns from it citizens and violent crime went up drastically???

Do you know that virtually all oppressive governments will forbid their "subjects" to possess arm?


174,000,000 people have been murdered by their government in the 20th century alone!!! I have posted this figure twice but you gun grabbers never address, dismiss, or prove it wrong. Your lack on intellectual honesty will be the death of you. 174 million people murdered by their government, yet at the same time you idiots want to disarm the citizens while allowing the government possess more power and more importantly possess the guns!!

Do you really think that human history will not repeat itself???

Do you really think that we live in a different world were governments will NOT round up and kill its citizens??

Do you really think its different this time??

The 2nd amendment was not about hunting or target shooting. It was the 4th and final check and balance against the other 3 branches of governmentand it always will be. Its the only reason we are one of the oldest governments in the world if not the oldest.

If you want to start banning guns, start with the government....Oh wait....this time government is different.....this time government will never repeat the trend of human governance for thousands of years.


Your a bunch of useful idiots. If you want to take my guns, you better have a gun!!!!

So basically, you don't trust your govt or the mechanisms that make it work? I am skepitical of my govt, but trust the mechanisms that allow me to kick their butts out of office if they don't do what they promised when elected.

Your 174,000,000 is disingenuous. Most of those people were killed by totalitarian regimes. I would suggest that there are no such regimes in the Western World, therefore that point is moot....

 

[zeitgeist2012]

We have not been able to kick anyones butt out of office...not even the Islamic progressive usurper.... Hell, they have elections in Russia and Venezuela...look what they got.... Sure, people have lost elections but, not their real rank and file among their commrads....

Furthermore, I think you are off kilter to think that we have honest elections in this country.... If you don't believe me...just ask Mickey Mouse...he was a registered voter in the last election....

We the people are being played and mocked at every turn, and the good little progressively indoctinated parrots still have faith in their progressive, elitist, `wannabe' monkey-god role models....

 

[liebuster]

So basically, you don't trust your govt or the mechanisms that make it work? I am skepitical of my govt, but trust the mechanisms that allow me to kick their butts out of office if they don't do what they promised when elected.

Your 174,000,000 is disingenuous. Most of those people were killed by totalitarian regimes. I would suggest that there are no such regimes in the Western World, therefore that point is moot....

I realize government is a necessary evil but to advocate the granting of more power to government over your life is stupid and can down right be deadly.

Totalitarian regimes don't happen over night. They happen slowly at first slowly gaining more power until a crisis happens. Hitler didn't round up the Jews and kill them over night and Mao didn't murder and starve millions of people just at the snap of a finger.

These things progress to totalitarism. Having advocates for the disarming of their neighbors is the equivalent to slowly poisioning oneself and is just one "piece of the pie" towards tyranny.

A person in this world must not be naive to believe that their government will never become a monster.

 

[casper4020322]

Here is the bottom line: there are a lot of baby boomers who grew up during the Nixon, Reagan era and are not receptive to a Black President (his White mother and grandparents do not count..only his African father is recognized). Therefore, in their eyes it's time for him to go and in the first place he never should have gotten elected. Race relationships in this country have come a long way but there are just some people who will not let go of the past. Who continue to believe that African Americans are beneath them and should stay in their place. Wherever that is.

 

[zeitgeist2012]

You are dead on...

Here is another truth for America.... However, not true for Sheik O'buzzard and his muslime sisterhood....

God! If I keep talking like this, I will be the first to be beheaded by one of their muslime changlings once our gov't is done installing them....

Obama will go down in history as the president who lost Egypt

http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...tory-as-the-president-who-lost-egypt-1.340057

By the way, I like Herman Cain for President.... He is antithesis to Sheik O'Buzzard....

 

[liebuster]

Here is the bottom line: there are a lot of baby boomers who grew up during the Nixon, Reagan era and are not receptive to a Black President (his White mother and grandparents do not count..only his African father is recognized). Therefore, in their eyes it's time for him to go and in the first place he never should have gotten elected. Race relationships in this country have come a long way but there are just some people who will not let go of the past. Who continue to believe that African Americans are beneath them and should stay in their place. Wherever that is.

Thats a little off topic, buddy. But I will just like to say that whenever you guys have nothing left to defend with, you just scream "Your a racist!"

Oldest trick in the book. Go get some respectable talking points if you want actually make a difference in the great debate of ideas.

 

[Dr Grump]

Hey, if I lived in the US I would probably feel just as disinfranchised a you guys seem to be. I have stated for a long time that your form of govt is one of the worst in the western world....and it's proven on this board every day....by US posters.

 

[idb]

Yeah, I would feel uncomfortable seeing people walking the streets carrying a gun for no purpose other because it makes them feel safe.
The cops here are still unarmed but obviously have access to firearms when required.

When I moved to Oz three years ago, I found it weird to see cops with guns. That aside, some security guards have them too, which I definitely find unsettling (I'm from NZ too)....

I know what you mean, I was in Europe three years ago.
Cops carrying submachine guns at airports, train stations and other public gathering places let alone sidearms is definitely intimidating.

 

[idb]

Hey, if I lived in the US I would probably feel just as disinfranchised a you guys seem to be. I have stated for a long time that your form of govt is one of the worst in the western world....and it's proven on this board every day....by US posters.

I agree but liebuster and zeitgeist's response is just scary.
What's the difference between them and an Islamic terrorist?

Looking from this side of the world political debate in the USA seems to be dominated by extreme positions.
Where is the reason and thought?

 

[The Rabbi]

Hey, if I lived in the US .

We thank G-d for small favors.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Indeed. Government should be out of the marriage business altogether. Civil unions for all, religious ceremonies for those who desire.

I agree with that one.

The word "marriage" would be stricken from the government record books.

I would take it one step further...as long as the two individuals are over the age of 18, were of sound mind, and were not in another civil union, anyone would be able to enter into a civil union.

It would be a legal partnership, like LLC or other business partnerships.

A son and a mother could enter a civil union if they so desired. A brother and a sister.

The best thing about civil unions being used as a legal paring from a personal business sense is that the government would be able to distance itself from issuing a certificate linked to sex (i.e., marriage)

Y'know...that sounds reasonable to me.

So, daveman supports civil unions. I wonder if his 'liberal' opinion is supported by other conservatives, especially those who support 'defense of marriage acts'?

On point, on gun control:

Undercover investigators buy guns without background checks - CNN.com

 

[editec]

Hey, if I lived in the US I would probably feel just as disinfranchised a you guys seem to be. I have stated for a long time that your form of govt is one of the worst in the western world....and it's proven on this board every day....by US posters.

I agree but liebuster and zeitgeist's response is just scary.
What's the difference between them and an Islamic terrorist?

Looking from this side of the world political debate in the USA seems to be dominated by extreme positions.
Where is the reason and thought?

This place doesn't not represent the zietgeist of this nation.

Not remotely.

IN the first place about the half the people here seem to be overtly and proudly NAZIs.

No I don't mean just your garden variety of racist, I mean flat out neo-American NAZIs.

Now in the population at large those guys are nearly universally loathed and their POV isn't remotely that of most Americans

But here they're tolerated and encouraged to express their POVs.

So if you're counting on this place to give you and idea of what America is like, you're going to get a very distorted idea of it, here.

Places like these appeal to extremists and obsessives.

The average American doesn't pay attention to the news, isn't a Zionist or a NAZI or a MARXIST or an ANARCHIST, either.

The average American is just trying to keep their heads above water and get on with their lives.

They don't hate anybody.

 

[Dr Grump]

Hey, if I lived in the US .

We thank G-d for small favors.

your loss...

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Crikey...you might be right there.......or.....are you?


Yep, I admit there is a gun ban in the UK, can you find me a link?
Careful now!


Yes, that's an excellent way to have your finger on the pulse of public opinion, mingle and converse with people with the same views as yourself!


Fair enough, but we may never know for sure without a poll...got any links?

OH shit I just notice where you live New Zealand, no wonder you are have such a problem with the American view of guns and gun control. So how high did your crime rate go when yall initiated more gun control?

We've always had gun control.
In fact it was relaxed somewhat about 20 years ago.
That has been blamed for an increase in gun crime in some quarters, although it is still uncommon enough that any gun crime is still reported on the evening news...including robberies where the gun was only shown.
I don't know if that's to blame or not, there has been a general rise in antisocial behaviour over the decades, just the same as any Western nation I suspect.

As for my attitude to the American view of gun control?
Yeah, I would feel uncomfortable seeing people walking the streets carrying a gun for no purpose other because it makes them feel safe.
The cops here are still unarmed but obviously have access to firearms when required.

As for my attitude to the American view of gun control?
Yeah, I would feel uncomfortable seeing people walking the streets carrying a gun for no purpose other because it makes them feel safe.

Oh so the mere sight of a person carrying a gun makes you uncomfortable. What about those people who carry but you can't see the gun legally or illegally? I don't have the stats off hand, but I would have to say in my opinion more people are killed by people who had a gun that was hidden on their body.

The cops here are still unarmed but obviously have access to firearms when required.

How long does it take a person to point a gun and pull the twigger? Would a cop would need his gun befor that happen? exactly where do they keep their guns?

Here is a report that was completed in 1997 for the New Zealand Minister of Police

In summary, increases in firearm crime have been less than in all violent crime but have followed its trend sufficiently closely to make it probable that firearm crime is a subset of violent crime, and that violence is leading firearm crime, not the reverse. The level of firearm crime is not increasing in such a way as to suggest a crisis, but it is sufficiently high to give grounds for concern and to require further endeavours to reduce it.

The two recent developments in firearm crime which give particular grounds for concern are the increased numbers of mass shootings, and evidence of increased readiness on the part of criminals to collect guns for use in criminal enterprises.

Review of Firearms Control in New Zealand, June 1997 - New Zealand Police | New Zealand Police


According to these stats which were taken from 2001 - 2008
Interesting fact maybe you can varify this?
New Zealnad leads the world 15 - 24 years old group in suicide
Suicide rates in ages 15-24 by country. Definition, graph and map.

They also lead in Rape victims and have the most assault victims.
NationMaster - New Zealand Crime statistics

If you do not like America's gun culture, do not blame us. Blame the acts of world leaders from the past. When you can guarantee that there will never be another Hitler, Stalin, Mo, Hussein or anyone like them, then we can talk about turning in some guns.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The Second Amendment is all well and good...but are you really so delusional to think that a bunch of citizens with guns could defeat the US military if the government decided to use the military to attack the people (which it wouldn't).

The best outcome would be that every man would die.

The worst outcome would be that every man, woman, and child would die.

Your guns are useless against the military.

Discuss.

How did the Russian military do in Afghanistan? How did the U.S. Military do in Viet Nam? How did the British do in India?

The British got kicked out of India, but it had nothing to do with guns.....

The British never had any military conflicts with native Indians? If that wasn't the case exactly how were the British kicked out of India. Hell using your argument No country was ever kick out of another country by using a gun.

 

[Flaylo]

Just looked at the Philadelphia newspaper online, there were seven homicides this past weekend, all by handguns, tell me that more people packing guns would have stopped this shat

 

[daveman]

So, daveman supports civil unions. I wonder if his 'liberal' opinion is supported by other conservatives, especially those who support 'defense of marriage acts'?

You'll have to ask them. I'm responsible for my views and my views alone.

However, I would like to point out that same-sex marriage initiatives have been defeated with the help of Democrat voters. You might want to clean your own house before you complain about others'.

On point, on gun control:

Undercover investigators buy guns without background checks - CNN.com

Then those guns were purchased illegally. Enforcement of existing laws is what's needed -- not more laws.

 

[daveman]

IN the first place about the half the people here seem to be overtly and proudly NAZIs.

No I don't mean just your garden variety of racist, I mean flat out neo-American NAZIs.

Half?

Moron.

 

[daveman]

Just looked at the Philadelphia newspaper online, there were seven homicides this past weekend, all by handguns, tell me that more people packing guns would have stopped this shat

You tell me more restrictive laws would have prevented criminals from breaking the law.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Just looked at the Philadelphia newspaper online, there were seven homicides this past weekend, all by handguns, tell me that more people packing guns would have stopped this shat

How many were repeat offenders?