obama just committed political suicide.

[idb]

Well that can't be true Megatron...drugs are illegal!!!



In any case I didn't mean crimes caused by drugs, I meant crimes of drugs such as possession, supply, manufacture etc.


Yeah because people wouldn't get arrested for manufacturing their own drugs just like they don't get arrested for manufacturing thier own grain alcohol.






No matter.

Well...that would depend on the law I suppose.
Is it illegal to distill your own alcohol in the USA?

 

[idb]

Why complain about a ban that doesn't exsist, unless there is a ban? What a concept. WOW.


You've been using your opinion for most of this discussion. There you go again trying to do that critical thinking again. Let's just say I am a member of the gun community, I talk with other gun owners, who know other gun owners who know other gun owners...... and most of us views gun issues the same way. Plus I keep a close watch on any gun issue that comes up in the news. Why do you think I was the first person to post on this board about the currennt gun control issue?



There you go again twisting something into this that is not there.
I said "critical thinking a term widely over used by liberals every where". I don't recall hearing many republicans use the term, they may do it but hardly use the term in a conversation.

Crikey...you might be right there.......or.....are you?


Yep, I admit there is a gun ban in the UK, can you find me a link?
Careful now!


Yes, that's an excellent way to have your finger on the pulse of public opinion, mingle and converse with people with the same views as yourself!

I said "critical thinking a term widely over used by liberals every where". I don't recall hearing many republicans use the term, they may do it but hardly use the term in a conversation.

Fair enough, but we may never know for sure without a poll...got any links?

OH hell I just noticed where you say you live. New Zeland.

Try again

 

[Dr Grump]

Germany, Britain, and most European countries have some form of gun control as do NZ and Oz. How oppressed are those peoples?

Again With Countries such as Germeny China, Russia with the start of Gun control came gun bans, how did that work out for the people.

Here are some victorious armed rebels for ya...

Search

If you look up the histories on many countries you will find that there have been many armed conflicts inwhich the rebels won because they had arms and not sticks and stones.... Try throwing a rock at Hitler, or a shoe at George Bush....

You mean like India when they kicked the British out?

 

[xotoxi]

The Second Amendment is all well and good...but are you really so delusional to think that a bunch of citizens with guns could defeat the US military if the government decided to use the military to attack the people (which it wouldn't).

The best outcome would be that every man would die.

The worst outcome would be that every man, woman, and child would die.

Your guns are useless against the military.

Discuss.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Careful, you're slipping into opinion here without a link or poll as a safety net, although since you speak for the majority of Americans I suppose that you're on safe ground.
By the way, was it deliberate that you didn't actually say that Republicans use critical thinking?

As for your two links...a letter to the paper complaining about a handgun ban, a NRA 'report' on some angry people not allowed to kill foxes anymore, a cop that wants tougher gun laws (possibly) and some poor bloke that got locked up for murder.
Is that them?

Why complain about a ban that doesn't exsist, unless there is a ban? What a concept. WOW.


You've been using your opinion for most of this discussion. There you go again trying to do that critical thinking again. Let's just say I am a member of the gun community, I talk with other gun owners, who know other gun owners who know other gun owners...... and most of us views gun issues the same way. Plus I keep a close watch on any gun issue that comes up in the news. Why do you think I was the first person to post on this board about the currennt gun control issue?



There you go again twisting something into this that is not there.
I said "critical thinking a term widely over used by liberals every where". I don't recall hearing many republicans use the term, they may do it but hardly use the term in a conversation.

Crikey...you might be right there.......or.....are you?


Yep, I admit there is a gun ban in the UK, can you find me a link?
Careful now!

Let's just say I am a member of the gun community, I talk with other gun owners, who know other gun owners who know other gun owners...... and most of us views gun issues the same way. Plus I keep a close watch on any gun issue that comes up in the news.

Yes, that's an excellent way to have your finger on the pulse of public opinion, mingle and converse with people with the same views as yourself!

I said "critical thinking a term widely over used by liberals every where". I don't recall hearing many republicans use the term, they may do it but hardly use the term in a conversation.

Fair enough, but we may never know for sure without a poll...got any links?

OH shit I just notice where you live New Zealand, no wonder you are have such a problem with the American view of guns and gun control. So how high did your crime rate go when yall initiated more gun control?

 

[Megatron]

Well...that would depend on the law I suppose.
Is it illegal to distill your own alcohol in the USA?

It is if you don't pay taxes on it then the tax man comes to get you and you get 4 years in the pen

 

[JohnA]

Gun control makes sense. If President Obama has the balls to push gun control, more power to him. It is the right thing to do.

How does that gun control in england work? It's amazing with all the guns out of the hands of the citizens of britian that people are still killed with guns.

Really! The amount of people killed by gunfire in the whole of Western Europe is less the amount killed in the US every year.

true and there is a lot of gun ownership in europe in switzerland for instance every able bodied young man has GOVT ISSUED GUN
norway has a large gun population
Russia also has many guns in comparision to the population .
these counties have a low violent crime rate compered to the US


Gun politics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

its not the gun ownership that is responsible for most of the gun crime its the nature of american ,we have been weined on violence ever since the revolution .
ive no doubt if loughner had been prohibited from obtaining a gun legally he would have got one anyway .....

seems fruitless to me that the *many many *gun control laws in *every state * in america never stops the criminal acqiuring one if he /she need one
just pisses of the decent law abiding gun carrying citizens .

the right to own is in the constiution ,
and has been upheld by the supreme court at least 3 times
just give it up you controlling socialist wachos and concentrate on creating more jobs for the citizens of this country

 

[idb]

The Second Amendment is all well and good...but are you really so delusional to think that a bunch of citizens with guns could defeat the US military if the government decided to use the military to attack the people (which it wouldn't).

The best outcome would be that every man would die.

The worst outcome would be that every man, woman, and child would die.

Your guns are useless against the military.

Discuss.

I read somewhere, maybe on this thread I can't remember, that the reason for the Second Amendment was to keep the government in check.
No government could maintain a standing army greater in number than a militia of armed citizens.
That's possibly still true but, as you say, numerical superiority doesn't necessarily matter so much these days.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

That's not what I said. In the case of China and Russia you are talking different cultures. In the case of Germany, you don't get to cherry pick to make your point. So the Nazis tooks guns from its citizens and were in power for 12 years. They have been gone for 65 years. How's it going there now?

Who's cherry picking?
"So the Nazis tooks guns from its citizens and were in power for 12 years"
WOW Do you realize what in the **** you are saying?
So how many people died because of the nazis gun control?



Like it never could happen here. Germany was a Democracy before the Nazi’s took control.

That's not what I said. In the case of China and Russia you are talking different cultures.

And your point? How many people died in these countries because of their gun control measures?

How many people have died in Britain, NZ and Oz due to gun control measures? Hint: **** all....

edit: Oh, and do tell me, how many people did die because of German gun control in the 1930s and 40s....

Can't answer my question can you?

 

[Dr Grump]

Who's cherry picking?
"So the Nazis tooks guns from its citizens and were in power for 12 years"
WOW Do you realize what in the **** you are saying?
So how many people died because of the nazis gun control?



Like it never could happen here. Germany was a Democracy before the Nazi’s took control.



And your point? How many people died in these countries because of their gun control measures?

How many people have died in Britain, NZ and Oz due to gun control measures? Hint: **** all....

edit: Oh, and do tell me, how many people did die because of German gun control in the 1930s and 40s....

Can't answer my question can you?

No I can't. But neither can you....it isn't verifiable....

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The Second Amendment is all well and good...but are you really so delusional to think that a bunch of citizens with guns could defeat the US military if the government decided to use the military to attack the people (which it wouldn't).

The best outcome would be that every man would die.

The worst outcome would be that every man, woman, and child would die.

Your guns are useless against the military.

Discuss.

How did the Russian military do in Afghanistan? How did the U.S. Military do in Viet Nam? How did the British do in India?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

How many people have died in Britain, NZ and Oz due to gun control measures? Hint: **** all....

edit: Oh, and do tell me, how many people did die because of German gun control in the 1930s and 40s....

Can't answer my question can you?

No I can't. But neither can you....it isn't verifiable....

But people did die at the hands of the nazi controlled German government because they could not defend themself yes or no?

 

[Dr Grump]

The Second Amendment is all well and good...but are you really so delusional to think that a bunch of citizens with guns could defeat the US military if the government decided to use the military to attack the people (which it wouldn't).

The best outcome would be that every man would die.

The worst outcome would be that every man, woman, and child would die.

Your guns are useless against the military.

Discuss.

How did the Russian military do in Afghanistan? How did the U.S. Military do in Viet Nam? How did the British do in India?

The British got kicked out of India, but it had nothing to do with guns.....

 

[idb]

Why complain about a ban that doesn't exsist, unless there is a ban? What a concept. WOW.


You've been using your opinion for most of this discussion. There you go again trying to do that critical thinking again. Let's just say I am a member of the gun community, I talk with other gun owners, who know other gun owners who know other gun owners...... and most of us views gun issues the same way. Plus I keep a close watch on any gun issue that comes up in the news. Why do you think I was the first person to post on this board about the currennt gun control issue?



There you go again twisting something into this that is not there.
I said "critical thinking a term widely over used by liberals every where". I don't recall hearing many republicans use the term, they may do it but hardly use the term in a conversation.

Crikey...you might be right there.......or.....are you?


Yep, I admit there is a gun ban in the UK, can you find me a link?
Careful now!


Yes, that's an excellent way to have your finger on the pulse of public opinion, mingle and converse with people with the same views as yourself!

I said "critical thinking a term widely over used by liberals every where". I don't recall hearing many republicans use the term, they may do it but hardly use the term in a conversation.

Fair enough, but we may never know for sure without a poll...got any links?

OH shit I just notice where you live New Zealand, no wonder you are have such a problem with the American view of guns and gun control. So how high did your crime rate go when yall initiated more gun control?

We've always had gun control.
In fact it was relaxed somewhat about 20 years ago.
That has been blamed for an increase in gun crime in some quarters, although it is still uncommon enough that any gun crime is still reported on the evening news...including robberies where the gun was only shown.
I don't know if that's to blame or not, there has been a general rise in antisocial behaviour over the decades, just the same as any Western nation I suspect.

As for my attitude to the American view of gun control?
Yeah, I would feel uncomfortable seeing people walking the streets carrying a gun for no purpose other because it makes them feel safe.
The cops here are still unarmed but obviously have access to firearms when required.

 

[Dr Grump]

Can't answer my question can you?

No I can't. But neither can you....it isn't verifiable....

But people did die at the hands of the nazi controlled German government because they could not defend themself yes or no?

Possibly. Do you think an armed populance would have resisted considering - especially in the latter part of the 30s - most Germans supported Hitler? Not his extermination of Jews, Gypsies etc, but definitely his patriotic posturing after what the allies had landed them with in Versailles after WWI.

Your reasoning - like the vast majority of your posts - is/are simple. The reasons and causes of deaths of millions of people during that time are many and varied. Would the number of deaths been less if there had been an armed populance? Amongst the Jews and those on the periphery of the regime, possibly. But I would suggest that the Brown Shirts, Wehrmacht, SS and the rest of the German war machine would have easliy dealt with those people - armed or not....

 

[JohnA]

Indeed. Government should be out of the marriage business altogether. Civil unions for all, religious ceremonies for those who desire.

I agree with that one.

The word "marriage" would be stricken from the government record books.

I would take it one step further...as long as the two individuals are over the age of 18, were of sound mind, and were not in another civil union, anyone would be able to enter into a civil union.

It would be a legal partnership, like LLC or other business partnerships.

A son and a mother could enter a civil union if they so desired. A brother and a sister.

The best thing about civil unions being used as a legal paring from a personal business sense is that the government would be able to distance itself from issuing a certificate linked to sex (i.e., marriage)

the govt as in federal has never had and should never have had any rights to legislate marriage
it belongs to the state
QUESTION were do you obtian a marriage certificate ??
ANSWER from the state or county
does nt matter how many priests , pasters , ministers etc
you see and get approval/ blessing from, YOUR MARRIAGE IS NOT LEGAL unless you have the necessary papers from the state .
further more is the state approves and issues the certificate whatever the religious wachos say will not change the fact that the persons named on the certificate are LEGALLY married
the churches lost the power to dictate to the citizenry what they can and cannot do centuries ago and we should keep it that way .

the church *every demonination and faith
as well as the federal govt SHOULD KEEP THEIR NOSES OUT OF WHAT IS NOT THERE ******* BUSINESS

 

[Dr Grump]

Yeah, I would feel uncomfortable seeing people walking the streets carrying a gun for no purpose other because it makes them feel safe.
The cops here are still unarmed but obviously have access to firearms when required.

When I moved to Oz three years ago, I found it weird to see cops with guns. That aside, some security guards have them too, which I definitely find unsettling (I'm from NZ too)....

 

[zeitgeist2012]

The global elite are responsible for it all and we all know it.... The AZ shooter knew what he was doing inspite of what the media or gov't say.... The AZ shooter is an example of our own future.... Why do you think they want our guns?

Just thank God you have not been directly affected by the economic collapse, and lost your job, investments, income, home, wife, and kids...etc.... However, if the economy continues in its current direction your turn will come and it wont just be at the gas pumps, grocery store, or in your taxes and utility bills.... See what is happening in Egypt today? It wont be long until them in the media and gov't lose their ability to pacify the masses here in the good old USSA....

The problem is between the super rich and the super poor, and them on the verge of becoming super poor....

Glenn Beck And Van Jones...
Birds of a Feather Pacify Together

Birds of a Feather Pacify Together American Everyman...

Ronald Reagan Jr.?s view on how to promote social justice?Violence??? :: WRAL.com

GEORGE SOROS

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=977

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/2788460/Authorities-lose...

THE G7 "SOLUTION" TO THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS:
A MARSHALL PLAN FOR CREDITORS AND SPECULATORS

The G7 "Solution" to the Global Financial Crisis

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/10/12/us-imf-diary-idUSTRE49B08...

George Soros Openly Discusses the coming New World Order | Ron Paul 2012 | Sound Money, Peace and Liberty




The Founders also viewed the right to bear arms as an moral individual right and obligation in removing tyrants or any entity that threantened the Republic....

 

[liebuster]

I can't believe this is still and argument! The fundemental difference between a gun rights activist and a gun control activist is the trust in ones government. You gun grabber actually trust a governement full of crooks, thieves, liars and elitists over your neighbors. Your support for gun control is purely based on emotion and nothing more. There is hardly any evidence or statistics to back up your views or to justify your emotions. You people need to base your emotions on facts instead of basing facts on emotions.

Do you know Chicago had a virtual ban on handguns for decades yet they are one of the most violent cities in the U.S. ???

Do you know that Australia confiscated its guns from it citizens and violent crime went up drastically???

Do you know that virtually all oppressive governments will forbid their "subjects" to possess arm?


174,000,000 people have been murdered by their government in the 20th century alone!!! I have posted this figure twice but you gun grabbers never address, dismiss, or prove it wrong. Your lack on intellectual honesty will be the death of you. 174 million people murdered by their government, yet at the same time you idiots want to disarm the citizens while allowing the government possess more power and more importantly possess the guns!!

Do you really think that human history will not repeat itself???

Do you really think that we live in a different world were governments will NOT round up and kill its citizens??

Do you really think its different this time??

The 2nd amendment was not about hunting or target shooting. It was the 4th and final check and balance against the other 3 branches of governmentand it always will be. Its the only reason we are one of the oldest governments in the world if not the oldest.

If you want to start banning guns, start with the government....Oh wait....this time government is different.....this time government will never repeat the trend of human governance for thousands of years.


Your a bunch of useful idiots. If you want to take my guns, you better have a gun!!!!

 

[zeitgeist2012]

Well said....