Obama Girls Benefit from Private School

[Harry Dresden]

HE IS BEING A HYPERCRITE MAGGIE....telling you NO you cant,vouchers not for you,your kid goes to the shitty school,mine will go to good school....bottom line.....i dont want your little juvenile delinquents going to my kids school.....

No, hes not. Even with a voucher program, most kids couldn't go there. He is trying to do the best for society while simultaneously trying to do the best for his kids. Exclusive, insanely private schools are really good for exactly that reason. Open it up to everyone, and they won't be good anymore. Its the nature of the beast.

Exclusivity does not equate to quality necessarily.

Public and Private School Students Perform Similarly in NAEP Study
A national assessment comparing the performance of public schools to private schools has found that nearly always, when certain student characteristics are taken into account, public school students perform just as well, if not better, than private school students. These conclusions, presented by the National Center for Education Statistics, of the U.S. Department of Education, in Comparing Private Schools and Public Schools Using Hierarchical Linear Modeling, are based on data from the 2003 NAEP reading and mathematics exams. This good news demonstrates that public schools continue to be a valid source for a solid education.

The Results

The study (http://www.schoolfunding.info/news/policy/ncespublicprivate.pdf) examined the differences between public and private school NAEP scores when adjustments were made for selected characteristics of students. These characteristics included gender, race/ethnicity, disability status, and English Language Learner status. While all the unadjusted NAEP scores initially indicated higher scores for private schools, taking the selected student characteristics into account substantially reduced the difference in all analyses between 11 and 15 score points. The report also further divided the category for private schools into Catholic, Lutheran, and Conservative Christian subcategories.

Access Quality Education: Policy News

i believe they are talking about kids who go to a decent middle class neighborhood public schools or better......the kids in the lower class schools in crappy neighborhoods and there are MANY,do not compare....

 

[Sky Dancer]

Allowing the rightwingnuts to give the finger to a good chunk of our society isn't...

so what is?

Allowing hard-working kids of color to opt out of a failing school system isn't giving the finger to a good chunk of our society. If poverty is the issue, and the poor are doomed to fail, let those kids who can succeed do so.

you're talking about sucking the money out of the public education system so that it no longer exists.

I was quite struck by the differences of public schools in prosperous middle class neighborhoods and those in the inner city. Both kinds of schools are public schools, results, extremely different.

In the middle class neighborhoods, the parents were very involved, and they advocated for programs for their kids and raised funds for special projects.

I haven't quite made up my mind yet on the voucher program. I don't like that it favors religious schools and gives them public dolllars which appears to violate separation of church and state.

I do have a vested interest in seeing American kids have equality opportunities in education. Private schools tend to be smaller, and to emphasive a stricter code of behavior and more vigorous academic programs.

I went to both parochial and public schools as a child. I valued my parochial school for emphasing the basics---reading, writing and math. I valued my public school curriculum for including the arts and music, and physical education.

The public schools were more racially diverse, and that provided a richer cultural environment.

 

[DiveCon]

Allowing hard-working kids of color to opt out of a failing school system isn't giving the finger to a good chunk of our society. If poverty is the issue, and the poor are doomed to fail, let those kids who can succeed do so.

you're talking about sucking the money out of the public education system so that it no longer exists.

I was quite struck by the differences of public schools in prosperous middle class neighborhoods and those in the inner city. Both kinds of schools are public schools, results, extremely different.

In the middle class neighborhoods, the parents were very involved, and they advocated for programs for their kids and raised funds for special projects.

I haven't quite made up my mind yet on the voucher program. I don't like that it favors religious schools and gives them public dolllars which appears to violate separation of church and state.

I do have a vested interest in seeing American kids have equality opportunities in education. Private schools tend to be smaller, and to emphasive a stricter code of behavior and more vigorous academic programs.

I went to both parochial and public schools as a child. I valued my parochial school for emphasing the basics---reading, writing and math. I valued my public school curriculum for including the arts and music, and physical education.

The public schools were more racially diverse, and that provided a richer cultural environment.

so, even by your own experience, going to a private religious school doesnt estabish a state religion
so your worry about a violation of the first amendment is unfounded

 

[catzmeow]

so, even by your own experience, going to a private religious school doesnt estabish a state religion
so your worry about a violation of the first amendment is unfounded

The parochial schools have, in many ways, demonstrated an ongoing commitment by religious folks to serving needy populations. These schools could have abandoned the inner city, and in many cases, haven't. Parochial schools are the last bastion of quality education that is still available to inner city DC residents.

i don't really think that religiousity plays a significant role in DC school decision-making regarding the vouchers.

 

[Nik]

you know what Nic...tough shit....each year this problem goes on with the idiots in charge,your kid gets older and another grade passes,and he keeps getting a sub-par education...10 years later he got a sub-par education,while the kid in the private school got a great education,and its all happening while our so-called leaders play their ******* political games at the expense of the kids of today and tomorrow, .....you do whats best for those kids and society and they had better do it quick....if you care about your kids you want them in a good school NOW.....

Only problem with your rosy little scenario is that nobody's been able to prove that private schools, in the aggregate, are any better than public schools.

Public vs. Private School Report Spurs Controversy : NPR

kind of a biased site there Nic.... most kids who go to a sub-par public school get no-where near the ed. they would get at a private school....and there are two many SUB-PAR schools for you to even try to argue your point....like i said....while the morons in charge squabble over this....thousands of kids are getting a half-ass education...and this has been going on for at least 25 years....should we go another 25 years?....

Really? Care to point out how the supposed bias effects a report put out by the Department of Education under a Republican president?

*sigh*

That there are sub-par schools doesn't mean that in the aggregate, private schools are better than public schools. There are sub-par private schools too.

Besides that, part of the issue with sub-par schools is funding. They are in shitty areas, and don't receive enoug funding. This, obviously, causes problems. But the other thing is that being poor sucks, and is hard in America. Until you address the underlying causes, there will be lots of kids who grow up in really shitty situations with really poor parents. Theres only so much the schools can do.

 

[DiveCon]

so, even by your own experience, going to a private religious school doesnt estabish a state religion
so your worry about a violation of the first amendment is unfounded

The parochial schools have, in many ways, demonstrated an ongoing commitment by religious folks to serving needy populations. These schools could have abandoned the inner city, and in many cases, haven't. Parochial schools are the last bastion of quality education that is still available to inner city DC residents.

i don't really think that religiousity plays a significant role in DC school decision-making regarding the vouchers.

well, sky was claiming it was a violation of the constitution
that was what i was addressing with her
and she is proof that a religious school does not make a state established religion, thus no violation

 

[catzmeow]

Besides that, part of the issue with sub-par schools is funding. They are in shitty areas, and don't receive enoug funding.

FAIL.

As shown, DC schools receive amongst the highest amount of funding nationally.

This is a common liberal misperception, that school failure is an issue of funding. it isn't. I'm not arguing that we cut funding here, that has never been my argument, but that we hold schools accountable to ensure that the funding goes directly to the classroom level.

Some of the lowest performing schools in the U.S. have some of the highest levels of funding. Consider the East Cleveland school District, for instance, which has THE HIGHEST WPU in Cuyahoga County, and the lowest educational attainment levels in teh state of Ohio...so low, in fact, that the State of Ohio took over management of these schools in 2004.

 

[Nik]

Besides that, part of the issue with sub-par schools is funding. They are in shitty areas, and don't receive enoug funding.

FAIL.

As shown, DC schools receive amongst the highest amount of funding nationally.

This is a common liberal misperception, that school failure is an issue of funding. it isn't. I'm not arguing that we cut funding here, that has never been my argument, but that we hold schools accountable to ensure that the funding goes directly to the classroom level.

Some of the lowest performing schools in the U.S. have some of the highest levels of funding. Consider the East Cleveland school District, for instance, which has THE HIGHEST WPU in Cuyahoga County, and the lowest educational attainment levels in teh state of Ohio...so low, in fact, that the State of Ohio took over management of these schools in 2004.

It is ONE problem in SOME areas. Not, as I specifically noted, the ONLY problem.

 

[catzmeow]

It is ONE problem in SOME areas. Not, as I specifically noted, the ONLY problem.

It is overstated in its effects, and the only problem you offered.

 

[Amanda]

The problem in education, as I see it, is that school is boring and most teachers suck.

Make school interesting and teachers not suck and you'll see an improvement.

I don't think it has to cost any more than we spend now. I think vouchers are a good idea. Let some alternative schools try out some new techniques. What's the worst that could happen, school would be boring and teachers would suck?

 

[catzmeow]

I think that more kids would find school less boring if literacy were improved in the early grades and kids were allowed to experience the joy of reading. At the least, it gives people an opportunity to supplement boring school days with their own research on topics of interest.

Too many kids in America make it out of elementary school without basic literacy skills, and that's simply ******* absurd and unacceptable.

 

[Nik]

It is ONE problem in SOME areas. Not, as I specifically noted, the ONLY problem.

It is overstated in its effects, and the only problem you offered.

Reading comprehension fail.

Quoted from a previous post of mine.

Besides that, part of the issue with sub-par schools is funding. They are in shitty areas, and don't receive enoug funding. This, obviously, causes problems. But the other thing is that being poor sucks, and is hard in America. Until you address the underlying causes, there will be lots of kids who grow up in really shitty situations with really poor parents. Theres only so much the schools can do.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The problem in education, as I see it, is that school is boring and most teachers suck.

Make school interesting and teachers not suck and you'll see an improvement.

I don't think it has to cost any more than we spend now. I think vouchers are a good idea. Let some alternative schools try out some new techniques. What's the worst that could happen, school would be boring and teachers would suck?

it was like that when i was in HS Amanda....not all teachers,but some sucked and many classes were boring.....that will never change...

 

[catzmeow]

But the other thing is that being poor sucks, and is hard in America. Until you address the underlying causes, there will be lots of kids who grow up in really shitty situations with really poor parents. Theres only so much the schools can do.

And yet, there are many inner city schools in poor areas that are managing to teach children to read. Shockers.

If what you say is true, and poor people are doomed to fail in school, then the voucher program makes MORE sense. Let the kids who can make it out flee from the failure and make something of themselves.

 

[Harry Dresden]

It is ONE problem in SOME areas. Not, as I specifically noted, the ONLY problem.

It is overstated in its effects, and the only problem you offered.

Reading comprehension fail.

Quoted from a previous post of mine.

Besides that, part of the issue with sub-par schools is funding. They are in shitty areas, and don't receive enoug funding. This, obviously, causes problems. But the other thing is that being poor sucks, and is hard in America. Until you address the underlying causes, there will be lots of kids who grow up in really shitty situations with really poor parents. Theres only so much the schools can do.

Nik ...your just going to argue for the sake of watching yourself type...if some of those parents from the poorer districts can get and pay the balance of the cost of the private schools fee,after the voucher amount,then they should be able too....why cant they opt for that?

 

[Nik]

But the other thing is that being poor sucks, and is hard in America. Until you address the underlying causes, there will be lots of kids who grow up in really shitty situations with really poor parents. Theres only so much the schools can do.

And yet, there are many inner city schools in poor areas that are managing to teach children to read. Shockers.

If what you say is true, and poor people are doomed to fail in school, then the voucher program makes MORE sense. Let the kids who can make it out flee from the failure and make something of themselves.

I never said "doomed to fail". In fact I specifically gave advice on how to address the problem. And if the problem is the parents, and their situations, and not the schools then changing to a voucher system won't do jack shit.

 

[catzmeow]

I never said "doomed to fail". In fact I specifically gave advice on how to address the problem. And if the problem is the parents, and their situations, and not the schools then changing to a voucher system won't do jack shit.

The parents who are part of the problem aren't willing to go through the hassle of trying to get a voucher.

Catz
^has extensive experience working with the "parents who are part of the problem"

 

[Agnapostate]

Returning to the still unaddressed obstacles that vouchers impose upon equality of opportunity, another interesting and illuminating study to consult is that of Prasch and Sheth, What Is Wrong with Education Vouchers?, which notes the following:

[E]ducation vouchers are not the ‘magic bullet’ that will ‘empower’ parents while efficiently selecting out the lazy, corrupt, and unqualified among the nation's schools and teachers. On the other hand, there is compelling evidence that vouchers will result in less equality of opportunity, less social mobility, and the further exacerbation of social stratification along the lines of race and class.

Then we return to our initial problem. Few have an interest in sound analysis of empirical evidence; rather, they'll seek out and cherrypick things that support preconceived ideological dogma.

 

[Nik]

I never said "doomed to fail". In fact I specifically gave advice on how to address the problem. And if the problem is the parents, and their situations, and not the schools then changing to a voucher system won't do jack shit.

The parents who are part of the problem aren't willing to go through the hassle of trying to get a voucher.

Catz
^has extensive experience working with the "parents who are part of the problem"

Its not that they aren't willing to go through the hassle of trying to get a voucher thats the problem. Its the other day to day issues that come up from being poor in America.

 

[Ravi]

But the other thing is that being poor sucks, and is hard in America. Until you address the underlying causes, there will be lots of kids who grow up in really shitty situations with really poor parents. Theres only so much the schools can do.

And yet, there are many inner city schools in poor areas that are managing to teach children to read. Shockers.

If what you say is true, and poor people are doomed to fail in school, then the voucher program makes MORE sense. Let the kids who can make it out flee from the failure and make something of themselves.

I don't agree with you. Some private schools can and do suck as bad as some public schools.