Obama declares war on doctors

[Nik]

And there are paths they can take such as medicaid and medicare

Your ER response matters not to me as it paints your premise as false.

To question you for a minute. Are you for government forceable taking money from one person to give to another. How about forcing a person to provide a service at the fee the govt dictates. You can see the dark path this will lead down.
We are a very giving country when we are not forced to give, whether it be money or services. Please don't go down the infrastructure argument as I have no problem paying taxes for community services.

Do you know what medicare is? Its only applicable if you are 65 or above. Thats not a "path you can take" if you aren't 65.

As for medicaid, my girlfriend was denied a while ago from medicaid. She was single, living alone, making $12,000 in New York City. Now $12,000 in NYC is nothing...I pay more than that in rent on just a room in an apt for myself every year. But regardless, she was denied medicaid.

She also couldn't afford doctors visits. This isn't an isolated problem.

Am I for the government taking money from the rich and giving to the poor? Yes. I am. We live in a wealthy country. There is no, none at all, excuse for individuals to be living in such shitty conditions.

If we are such a giving country, then why are there so many impoverished people in this country?

As for infrastructure, those aren't exactly "community" services. Unless you think the interstate highway system, an infrastructure system that has been a huge boon to economic conditions around the country, are somehow a community service.

Social services in this country are fucking horrible. Don't give me the shit that its so easy to live in this country if you are poor unless you have some experience with it. And sorry, but no, you are incredibly wrong about your ignorant idea that people don't get turned away from healthcare. They do. All the fucking time.

I do know what medicare is and who gets it. Big surprise, people over 65 need services too. This is not Robin Hood and the money govt takes does not all come from the rich. There are strong sides to this discussion. I could go down the path of people gaming the system with welfare kids, illegals jamming up the ER for doctor visits and etc.

Nice non-sequiter. Medicare is good, but it does not go far enough. Oh do go into the whole people scamming the system bit. That shit is marginal. Same with illegals in the ER visits.

People do not get turned away at the ER without health insurance. Please stop with the lie. I never stated it was carried any further than the ER.

You said:

No one in this country is turned away from medical treatment....No One

So yes. You did say it carried further than ER. Since ER will not treat all medical issues, people are turned away in this country from medical treatment. That you can't admit this simple fact is pathetic on your part.

There are legitimate people who need healthcare. There are legitimate problems in the HC industry; but the are also healthy, capable people living off govt disability and "gaming" the system. The problem is too deep and wide to discuss fully on a message board.

Right. Because government disability is so fucking lucrative that these people just want to live off it for the rest of their lives. Ugh.

You still have to ask yourself the question, what does the USA do when the providers (rich) can/will no longer provide? If you don't get rid of the corruption and just continue to push for more free services, we will reach a critical mass time.

Please point to evidence that there is systemic corruption. The US has incredibly low taxes. The crap about how we couldn't survive and we would reach critical mass is bullshit.

 

[chanel]

The new federal health-care law has raised the stakes for hospitals and schools already scrambling to train more doctors.

Experts warn there won't be enough doctors to treat the millions of people newly insured under the law. At current graduation and training rates, the nation could face a shortage of as many as 150,000 doctors in the next 15 years, according to the Association of American Medical Colleges.

U.S. Faces Shortage of Doctors - WSJ.com

That article was from April. How will those numbers change with this ruling?

Perhaps doctors will start charging for nurses, phone calls, and photocopies now. Just like lawyers. Hey when will Obama declare war on lawyers? After all, legal representation is a right.

 

[editec]

Can you imagine a business being run where the prices are being fixed as what the customers want to pay, and not what it cost them to provide the service, or manufacture the product.

I wonder how many doctors there are going to be if they keep this up.

The second reason this is a landmark case is that the Justice Department has unambiguously stated that refusal to accept government price controls is a form of illegal “price fixing.”

What’s more, the Antitrust Division has linked a refusal to accept government price controls with a refusal to accept a “private” insurance company’s contract offer. This lives little doubt that antitrust regulators consider insurance party contracts the equivalent of government price controls — and physicians and patients have no choice but to accept them.

Justice Department declares war on doctors - CSMonitor.com

This means the government believes it has the right to force doctors to accept Medicare/Medicaid and/ or insurance pricing, and that it will work to send anyone who tries to opt out of accepting it to prison. This is another example of a badly written law being applied to a situation it should not cover in the first place.

Prison?

That I rather doubt.

 

[Yukon.]

If it's more Doctors that you'll need then train them. Oh sorry, I forgot, most people can't afford to get into University in the USA,. I guess you'll have to go to those Muslim countries and import more Doctors.

 

[Nik]

The new federal health-care law has raised the stakes for hospitals and schools already scrambling to train more doctors.

Experts warn there won't be enough doctors to treat the millions of people newly insured under the law. At current graduation and training rates, the nation could face a shortage of as many as 150,000 doctors in the next 15 years, according to the Association of American Medical Colleges.

U.S. Faces Shortage of Doctors - WSJ.com

That article was from April. How will those numbers change with this ruling?

Perhaps doctors will start charging for nurses, phone calls, and photocopies now. Just like lawyers. Hey when will Obama declare war on lawyers? After all, legal representation is a right.

Legal representation is not a right. It is only a right in criminal cases and the government provides those already.

 

[Gadawg73]

Jammed a finger and went to ER. Doctor looked at it and pulled it out.
Insurance company was billed $1852, the doctor's fee was $825.00 for less than 5 minutes.
Someone has to declare war on these frauds known as American doctors.

 

[syrenn]

Jammed a finger and went to ER. Doctor looked at it and pulled it out.
Insurance company was billed $1852, the doctor's fee was $825.00 for less than 5 minutes.
Someone has to declare war on these frauds known as American doctors.

Its the ER. Everything in the ER is more expensive then a regular office visit.

That is unless you are an illegal and you get it all for free.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Actually he can't fire them "at will". He can fire them as long as its not for specific reasons (one of the reasons he cannot fire them for is for disobeying specific presidential orders).

Thats why Bush got into trouble for firing US attorneys.

Bush did not get in trouble for firing the attorneys, but keep spouting your revisionist history.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

In the rush to defend doctors and their ability to set prices, where is the concern for patients who die because they cannot afford medical treatment?

What evidence do you have to back up this claim?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Can you imagine a business being run where the prices are being fixed as what the customers want to pay, and not what it cost them to provide the service, or manufacture the product.

I wonder how many doctors there are going to be if they keep this up.

The second reason this is a landmark case is that the Justice Department has unambiguously stated that refusal to accept government price controls is a form of illegal “price fixing.”

What’s more, the Antitrust Division has linked a refusal to accept government price controls with a refusal to accept a “private” insurance company’s contract offer. This lives little doubt that antitrust regulators consider insurance party contracts the equivalent of government price controls — and physicians and patients have no choice but to accept them.

Justice Department declares war on doctors - CSMonitor.com

This means the government believes it has the right to force doctors to accept Medicare/Medicaid and/ or insurance pricing, and that it will work to send anyone who tries to opt out of accepting it to prison. This is another example of a badly written law being applied to a situation it should not cover in the first place.

Prison?

That I rather doubt.

Doubt away, that does not make the fact that the DoJ has the power to criminally prosecute anyone they focus on any less chilling.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Legal representation is not a right. It is only a right in criminal cases and the government provides those already.

Everyone has a right to an attorney in any legal procedure, period. The government only pays for them in criminal cases where the defendent is indigent.

 

[xotoxi]

Jammed a finger and went to ER. Doctor looked at it and pulled it out.
Insurance company was billed $1852, the doctor's fee was $825.00 for less than 5 minutes.
Someone has to declare war on these frauds known as American doctors.

If it was so expensive, why did you go to the doctor?

Was there anyone else that could have helped you?

I suppose you could have just pulled it yourself and risked nerve damage or vascular damage because you didn't know how to pull it correctly. But you would have saved money.

 

[syrenn]

So lets see, we are now mandating the general public buys into health care AND we are telling the doctors how much to charge. Interesting. Can the government set limits on how much people can sue doctors for? Is the government going to get rid of the idea of PRIVATE PRACTICE too.

How about the doctors just have a HUGE waiting room and let people sit there for a few days before they get their turn. That falls under the rules doesn't it?

 

[Meister]

Jammed a finger and went to ER. Doctor looked at it and pulled it out.
Insurance company was billed $1852, the doctor's fee was $825.00 for less than 5 minutes.
Someone has to declare war on these frauds known as American doctors.

Next time just walk it off, and bypass the whining.

 

[Gadawg73]

Jammed a finger and went to ER. Doctor looked at it and pulled it out.
Insurance company was billed $1852, the doctor's fee was $825.00 for less than 5 minutes.
Someone has to declare war on these frauds known as American doctors.

If it was so expensive, why did you go to the doctor?

Was there anyone else that could have helped you?

I suppose you could have just pulled it yourself and risked nerve damage or vascular damage because you didn't know how to pull it correctly. But you would have saved money.

You are shitting me, right?
You must be one that has their health care and insurance paid for by a group plan. An informed consumer always questions the bill. The problem is that mostAmericans with group health care are uninformed like you and are the root cause of spiraling health care costs.
I live in the real world, own 3 corporations and pay over 40K a year in health care premiums.
If you do not know that the reason these prices are borderline fraud because insurance companies pay them and get it back through extreme premiums then you are brain dead.

 

[Gadawg73]

So lets see, we are now mandating the general public buys into health care AND we are telling the doctors how much to charge. Interesting. Can the government set limits on how much people can sue doctors for? Is the government going to get rid of the idea of PRIVATE PRACTICE too.

How about the doctors just have a HUGE waiting room and let people sit there for a few days before they get their turn. That falls under the rules doesn't it?

In the real world where I run my 3 corporations the market, consumers, determine the price of everything.
Group health care paid for by 3rd party insurance companies is not free market. How is it free market when you do not question the bill because your insurance group health care benefit pays for it?
Econ 101 needs to be a required subject in high school. Americans are illiterate in the free market economics of the business world.

 

[Meister]

still whining, I see.

 

[Meister]

Jammed a finger and went to ER. Doctor looked at it and pulled it out.
Insurance company was billed $1852, the doctor's fee was $825.00 for less than 5 minutes.
Someone has to declare war on these frauds known as American doctors.

If it was so expensive, why did you go to the doctor?

Was there anyone else that could have helped you?

I suppose you could have just pulled it yourself and risked nerve damage or vascular damage because you didn't know how to pull it correctly. But you would have saved money.

You are shitting me, right?
You must be one that has their health care and insurance paid for by a group plan. An informed consumer always questions the bill. The problem is that mostAmericans with group health care are uninformed like you and are the root cause of spiraling health care costs.
I live in the real world, own 3 corporations and pay over 40K a year in health care premiums.
If you do not know that the reason these prices are borderline fraud because insurance companies pay them and get it back through extreme premiums then you are brain dead.

You do realize that XO is a Dr., right? I think he may know a lot more than you think.

 

[jeffrockit]

Do you know what medicare is? Its only applicable if you are 65 or above. Thats not a "path you can take" if you aren't 65.

As for medicaid, my girlfriend was denied a while ago from medicaid. She was single, living alone, making $12,000 in New York City. Now $12,000 in NYC is nothing...I pay more than that in rent on just a room in an apt for myself every year. But regardless, she was denied medicaid.

She also couldn't afford doctors visits. This isn't an isolated problem.

Am I for the government taking money from the rich and giving to the poor? Yes. I am. We live in a wealthy country. There is no, none at all, excuse for individuals to be living in such shitty conditions.

If we are such a giving country, then why are there so many impoverished people in this country?

As for infrastructure, those aren't exactly "community" services. Unless you think the interstate highway system, an infrastructure system that has been a huge boon to economic conditions around the country, are somehow a community service.

Social services in this country are fucking horrible. Don't give me the shit that its so easy to live in this country if you are poor unless you have some experience with it. And sorry, but no, you are incredibly wrong about your ignorant idea that people don't get turned away from healthcare. They do. All the fucking time.

I do know what medicare is and who gets it. Big surprise, people over 65 need services too. This is not Robin Hood and the money govt takes does not all come from the rich. There are strong sides to this discussion. I could go down the path of people gaming the system with welfare kids, illegals jamming up the ER for doctor visits and etc.

Nice non-sequiter. Medicare is good, but it does not go far enough. Oh do go into the whole people scamming the system bit. That shit is marginal. Same with illegals in the ER visits.



You said:



So yes. You did say it carried further than ER. Since ER will not treat all medical issues, people are turned away in this country from medical treatment. That you can't admit this simple fact is pathetic on your part.

There are legitimate people who need healthcare. There are legitimate problems in the HC industry; but the are also healthy, capable people living off govt disability and "gaming" the system. The problem is too deep and wide to discuss fully on a message board.

Right. Because government disability is so fucking lucrative that these people just want to live off it for the rest of their lives. Ugh.

You still have to ask yourself the question, what does the USA do when the providers (rich) can/will no longer provide? If you don't get rid of the corruption and just continue to push for more free services, we will reach a critical mass time.

Please point to evidence that there is systemic corruption. The US has incredibly low taxes. The crap about how we couldn't survive and we would reach critical mass is bullshit.

Responding to what I bolded.
1. So its your position that everyone on disability is honest and no one is cheating the system. You must live in a fantasy world. Here is just one of many links reporting billions lost to cheatshttp://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19811105&id=KPQNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=PHsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6596,5266558

2. on corruption in medicaid and medicare. Yet another of many links
Medicare corruption report should be considered regarding new accounts | World-Check

In your fantasy world everyone is honest and there are no problems with the system that "free" healthcare won't fix.

BTW the cursing doesn't make you appear intelligent. It is actually quite the opposite. Do yourself a favor and research the many problems within healthcare before blaming it on doctors and the evil rich.

 

[Vel]

Most Doctors are overpaid for the services they provided. Traeting a haed cold, or a sore throat certianly isnt worth 125.00 - anyone who thinks it is is absolutely nuts or a life long member of the GOP.

The Doctors should be overjoyed in that an additional 40 million Americans will be forced to have insurance and under the current US structure the Doctors will be able to milk the system even more than they now do.

Perhaps doctors fees would be less if they didn't have all the student loans left over from the over-priced universities. If doctors should be forced to accept less than they say they need, then why not cut the salaries of college professors?