obama birth certificate: separation of issues

[washamericom]

i thought there were only 2 kinds ?
one daughter, not born yet.
so please clarify. can any child born on us soil be president ? or vice ?

i think this thread and the ones before it work extremely well, i'm having a great time !

Any child born under our law can be a president. The child of an Ambassador or an invading army wouldn't be under our law. And thus, any child born in our territory wouldn't be a US citizen. And thus, not a natural born citizen.

i'd like to look a little closer here,

Were Will, Kate and their daughters born in the US and US citizens at birth?

No. So no, they couldn't be president.

And that has what relevance with Obama's eligibility?

that is a damn fine question... let's ponder on that. and not just obamavich. there is a whole parade coming down the pike. fuddy the clown will like that
btw one sun won dautter, on the way

When you actually have a question, fire away. My only caveat be your question be in English.

notwithstanding (again)
here, phrased in more form, as you like it ...

And you'll still need to give some context to your statements and offer some relevance to your questions.

what is the distinction of natural born, and why did they grandfather themselves. seems an odd addendum, if just anyone could be president. or vice.
somewhere in this thread, i asked, could wiilsd and kate have their daughter here and have her eligible to be vice or president, once she's thirty five ?

.

And that has what relevance with Obama's eligibility?

let's keep it simple: i asked, could wiilsd and kate have their daughter here and have her eligible to be vice or president, once she's thirty five ?


you answered:
Were Will, Kate and their daughters born in the US and US citizens at birth?

No. So no, they couldn't be president


so i'll ask again if prince william and his wife kate have their daughter here in America, could she be president or vice president of the United States of America. that's the question.
not whether or not "their daughters" (i don't know what rock you're under) were born here. there is a subtle distinction. for U

"you need" to slow down and comprehend. other than that, you seem delightful.

No. The Heads of State like Queen Elizabeth enjoy a special status known as 'Sovereign Immunity'. Which effectively places the outside the jurisdiction of US law. While Kate is not the head of state, its widly recognized among scholars in international law that the royal family would enjoy the same status. Thus, Kate's 'sovereign immunity' would place her outside the jurisdiction of US laws. And consequently, none of the children she bore here would be US citizens. And thus, couldn't be president.

The only conceivable standard of natural born citizenship the founders could have understood when the constitution was written was the English common law definition. Which clearly recognized natural born status as following place of birth, even if the child's parents were both aliens. As long as the parents were subject to the laws of the king, any child they bore was born under the 'allegiance' of the king. And thus, acquired natural born status.

However, if the parents were diplomats or foreign soldiers occupying the king's lands, then they would not be subject to his authority. And thus no child born to such parents would be born into the King's allegiance. And would not be natural born subjects of his realm.

Some have argued that the Founders followed the book called The Law of Nation's in defining natural born citizenship. But this is clearly nonsense. The book was written in French 1758. It was translated into English in 1760. No English translation at the time of the writing of the constitution included the words 'Natural born citizen'. It didn't appear until the 1797 edition of Law of Nations....10 years after the constitution was written and ratified.

In both the 1760 and 1787 English Editions (the only two English editions that the founders could have had access to), Vattel's law of nations said as follows:

"The natives or indigenes, are those born in the country of the parents who are citizens. "

Vattel's Law of Nations, 1760 and 1787 Editions

And 'indigenes' as written in in the original french means 'indigenous' when translated. Not 'natural born citizen. Eliminating Vattel as the source of the Founder's understanding of the term.

Even logically, English common law makes sense. The legal tradition the founders were most familiar with was the English tradition. English common law would thus be the most logical source of their understanding of the meaning of terms. And given the fact that only English Common law was available at the time of the writing of the constitution as a plausible source for the term 'natural born', logic even more firmly falls on the side of English Common Law. And finally, it was English Common Law that the USSC cited as the lens through which constitutional terms can be understood in the case 'Wong Kim Ark v. US'.

So we have legal precedent, logic, history, and sequence all working in favor of natural born status being based on where you were born. Which is why most legal scholars recognize the place of birth as most closely linked to natural born status.

i love that you quote de vattel

Federal judge s order confirms scheduled contempt hearing for Arpaio

 

[washamericom]

Report No Person Except A Natural Born Citizen Presidential Eligibility Question Resounding - Birther Report

Video Fox News Megyn Kelly Hilariously Mocks Media For Not Investigating Obama Background - Birther Report

 

[washamericom]

Actually, it's a good time for you to seek out the mental health treatment you so clearly need.

We forgot to ask Reagan for his birth certificate...

I think he was born before they were invented.

i'm not sure when they were invetted, i know my grandmother had one from boston in 1897...

actually, that one is missing too.

 

[washamericom]

Shattering Obama Accomplished Journalist Obama Birth Certificate And Family Pictures Fake - Birther Report

well this is breaking... except for the guys credential's and experience, i probably wouldn't pay much attention...

in this arena the guy could be an obot himself by now...

but i do agree that media types have been threatened not to pursue this...

i'm wondering if some of the birthers here are obots and vice versa....... doublebots

this is great conspiracy theory fer sure..

@ChuckCJohnson 18.6 k

 

[washamericom]

the original day: there were a lot of moving parts that week.




any body language people want to weigh in ?? heh.

i guess the "larger point" i'm addressing here is that the sales campaign for this and benghazi are remarkably similar.

 

[washamericom]

well this is getting funkier by the minute




Second NBC News reporter held the document on day super tornadoes stole headlines Timing coordinated by White House 1776 Channel

i'll be interested to hear trump's speech.

 

[washamericom]

well this is getting funkier by the minute




Second NBC News reporter held the document on day super tornadoes stole headlines Timing coordinated by White House 1776 Channel

i'll be interested to hear trump's speech.

did nbc have a special waiver too ?

 

[washamericom]

Gallups Sheriff Arpaio Mike Zullo Are Saying Investigation Press Conference Forthcoming - Birther Report

 

[washamericom]

Actually, it's a good time for you to seek out the mental health treatment you so clearly need.

We forgot to ask Reagan for his birth certificate...

it's not to late as long as it's not revisionist history, ignored or tabbooed:

there is another element: the antibirthers assumed one senator obama was reelected both stories would fade. i predict eligibility will be in the national spotlight before the end of this year, just a theory.

The State of Hawaii ended the question 6 years ago...Did you miss the announcement?

wouldn't it be great if states could just do that.

hey, here's a slightly different direct pertaining to this whole banning thing. i am a banned birther and have been for a long time (never here at usmess). so where is the common place to dialog (thunderdome).

i was reading this blog at kevin davidson's fishing for goldcoins...

now, since he has banned me from his site at least a half dozen times....

you see where this is going. one of the biigest part of this story is the interaction of the obots...

i don't know if i can post this here, but i'll try. what difference does it make, can't get much more obscure than CT. right.

but there are reasons why CT is actually a better camping ground than the big boards sometimes.

obamaconspiracy is an excellent site and kevin works hard at, but for me it's not available.
so another attempt to draw him to common ground. there are a couple of obots here, it should trickle down to him at some point.

.

Scott,

Send an email to Doc and promise to follow the site's policies, and I am confident he will let you post- with moderation.

That is what he normally does when people like yourself can't stay on topic but are generally polite.

have you cleared this with him ??

 

[Skylar]

Gallups Sheriff Arpaio Mike Zullo Are Saying Investigation Press Conference Forthcoming - Birther Report

And where is the official report from Maricopa Country Sheriff's department?

 

[jillian]

Actually, it's a good time for you to seek out the mental health treatment you so clearly need.

We forgot to ask Reagan for his birth certificate...

the best is these idiots are talking about Ted Cruz as a candidate and he REALLY wasn't born here.

but his skin is pasty so it's ok.

 

[Skylar]

i love that you quote de vattel

Federal judge s order confirms scheduled contempt hearing for Arpaio

Pay special attention to the dates. Because that's where Vattel as a source on the meaning of 'natural born' irreparably breaks.

 

[washamericom]

Actually, it's a good time for you to seek out the mental health treatment you so clearly need.

We forgot to ask Reagan for his birth certificate...

the best is these idiots are talking about Ted Cruz as a candidate and he REALLY wasn't born here.

but his skin is pasty so it's ok.

so you think he can't run j ?? your opinion i value.

 

[jillian]

Actually, it's a good time for you to seek out the mental health treatment you so clearly need.

We forgot to ask Reagan for his birth certificate...

the best is these idiots are talking about Ted Cruz as a candidate and he REALLY wasn't born here.

but his skin is pasty so it's ok.

so you think he can't run j ?? your opinion i value.

I don't think he can run. This court might find differently given its make up. But he was born in Canada.

 

[washamericom]

Actually, it's a good time for you to seek out the mental health treatment you so clearly need.

We forgot to ask Reagan for his birth certificate...

the best is these idiots are talking about Ted Cruz as a candidate and he REALLY wasn't born here.

but his skin is pasty so it's ok.

so you think he can't run j ?? your opinion i value.

I don't think he can run. This court might find differently given its make up. But he was born in Canada.

but as you well know they don't initiate constitutional interpretation, only render on a lower court decision. up or down, if they tie is stays the way it was...do i have that right ?

one of the bots here said an interesting thing... since the supremes have not weighed in (defined natural born), then it's up to us to decide. inherently flawed logic imo

the bots push precedents that aren't germane... they call it settled law, even down to the one parent theory...

listen, since you are here...what about marco rubio, two foreign born parents, but he was born here, is he eligible ??

 

[jillian]

Actually, it's a good time for you to seek out the mental health treatment you so clearly need.

We forgot to ask Reagan for his birth certificate...

the best is these idiots are talking about Ted Cruz as a candidate and he REALLY wasn't born here.

but his skin is pasty so it's ok.

so you think he can't run j ?? your opinion i value.

I don't think he can run. This court might find differently given its make up. But he was born in Canada.

but as you well know they don't initiate constitutional interpretation, only render on a lower court decision. up or down, if they tie is stays the way it was...do i have that right ?

if he tried to run, the High Court would be the ultimate arbiter.

 

[washamericom]

We forgot to ask Reagan for his birth certificate...

the best is these idiots are talking about Ted Cruz as a candidate and he REALLY wasn't born here.

but his skin is pasty so it's ok.

so you think he can't run j ?? your opinion i value.

I don't think he can run. This court might find differently given its make up. But he was born in Canada.

but as you well know they don't initiate constitutional interpretation, only render on a lower court decision. up or down, if they tie is stays the way it was...do i have that right ?

if he tried to run, the High Court would be the ultimate arbiter.

why not before ?


and btw.... you know what j ? these guys (fratboys) respect you, the whole demeanor changes..

i have noticed this on the radio, people very suddenly become polite...

 

[washamericom]

i love that you quote de vattel

Federal judge s order confirms scheduled contempt hearing for Arpaio

Pay special attention to the dates. Because that's where Vattel as a source on the meaning of 'natural born' irreparably breaks.

that's way above my pay grade amigo... so vattel is in or out ?? cause sometimes it's hard to tell with you guys..is he where the one parent plan came from... cause i'm trying to figure out where that came from.... and it might come up in the next election...

 

[jillian]

the best is these idiots are talking about Ted Cruz as a candidate and he REALLY wasn't born here.

but his skin is pasty so it's ok.

so you think he can't run j ?? your opinion i value.

I don't think he can run. This court might find differently given its make up. But he was born in Canada.

but as you well know they don't initiate constitutional interpretation, only render on a lower court decision. up or down, if they tie is stays the way it was...do i have that right ?

if he tried to run, the High Court would be the ultimate arbiter.

why not before ?


and btw.... you know what j ? these guys (fratboys) respect you, the whole demeanor changes..

i have noticed this on the radio, people very suddenly become polite...

because the Court can only hear an actual case and controversy. he would have to put himself on the ballot, at which point someone would have to mount a challenge.

 

[Skylar]

i love that you quote de vattel

Federal judge s order confirms scheduled contempt hearing for Arpaio

Pay special attention to the dates. Because that's where Vattel as a source on the meaning of 'natural born' irreparably breaks.

that's way above my pay grade amigo... so vatel is in or out ?? id he where the one parent plan came from... cause i'm trying to figure out where that came from.... and it might come up in the next election...

Vattel is a physical impossibility. The first mention of 'natural born citizen' in the Law of Nations was in the 1797 edition. That's in any edition, in any language.

The constitution was passed in 1788. Without a Delorian going 88mph, Vattel couldn't possibly be the founder's source on the term 'natural born citizen'.

That leaves only one even remotely plausible candidate left: English Common Law. Which, of course, makes the most sense. As it was the law that the founders were most versed in.