Obama advisors seek rationed medical care

[mskafka]

My point in posting the above, is to drive home how many of these type of people clog up emergency rooms, and create more work for the already overworked physicians.

People go to place like URGENT CARE in lu of an emergency room visit.

Yes, and this has been a HUGE benefit to American Healthcare. But there is only so much that Urgentcare can do. If someone goes to a walk-in with abdominal pain, they are going to be sent to the ER; most of the time.

I transport AT LEAST one patient per shift from an Urgentcare facility to an ER.

I have heard of some Dr. offices which are offering discounts to the uninsured. This is a good thing. It's not very common in my neck of the woods, but it seems to be more prevalent up north.

It's a mess, and there's no easy answer.

 

[SAT2]

They should be expanding Medicare, and charging a higher premium for it for younger people who cannot get insurance due to preexisting conditions-this would aid so many people.

They should offer Medicaid to adults who cannot get into other health insurance pools.

The individual mandate with a sliding scale, or a public option, is a necessity if we are going to have anything like an equal society.

 

[bripat9643]

Why would any rational person want an "equal society?"

They should be expanding Medicare, and charging a higher premium for it for younger people who cannot get insurance due to preexisting conditions-this would aid so many people.

They should offer Medicaid to adults who cannot get into other health insurance pools.

The individual mandate with a sliding scale, or a public option, is a necessity if we are going to have anything like an equal society.

 

[The Rabbi]

Why would any rational person want an "equal society?"

They should be expanding Medicare, and charging a higher premium for it for younger people who cannot get insurance due to preexisting conditions-this would aid so many people.

They should offer Medicaid to adults who cannot get into other health insurance pools.

The individual mandate with a sliding scale, or a public option, is a necessity if we are going to have anything like an equal society.

It's "equality". It's one of those things like fairness that sounds good but no one can define it.

 

[SAT2]

United States Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[thereisnospoon]

They should be expanding Medicare, and charging a higher premium for it for younger people who cannot get insurance due to preexisting conditions-this would aid so many people.

They should offer Medicaid to adults who cannot get into other health insurance pools.

The individual mandate with a sliding scale, or a public option, is a necessity if we are going to have anything like an equal society.

There is no such thing as an 'equal society'..The Declaration of Independence theorizes that 'All men a created equal"...That is one of the tenets on which our nation is built.
Your premise assumes that 'created equal' translates to equality of outcome.
As we all know, that is unattainable in a society based on freedom and liberty.

Newsflash. We do not have equal access to anything.
For example, if one is a member of a labor union that person does not have access to management to air their concerns about how the job they do can be accomplished with more efficiency.
If a person is arrested and they do not retain legal representation, they are placed into the public system.
If one does not bother to buy health insurance, they do not have representation in the cost of care.
In cases of lower to moderate income people, they are offered many public benefits as long as they apply for them. In cases where people do not apply for these benefits, they do not.
Most of us either benefit or are punished by the choices we make.
Few people actually have no choices.
This is not nor will it ever be, unless we become a socialist republic or welfare state where all wealth is controlled by government and the elite ruling class within government, an 'equal society'.
Whomever told you that( we are an equal society) is misinformed.

 

[daveman]

United States Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...​

"Are created equal". Not "should wind up equal".

Are leftists illiterate?

 

[SAT2]

They should be expanding Medicare, and charging a higher premium for it for younger people who cannot get insurance due to preexisting conditions-this would aid so many people.

They should offer Medicaid to adults who cannot get into other health insurance pools.

The individual mandate with a sliding scale, or a public option, is a necessity if we are going to have anything like an equal society.

There is no such thing as an 'equal society'..The Declaration of Independence theorizes that 'All men a created equal"...That is one of the tenets on which our nation is built.
Your premise assumes that 'created equal' translates to equality of outcome.
As we all know, that is unattainable in a society based on freedom and liberty.

Newsflash. We do not have equal access to anything.
For example, if one is a member of a labor union that person does not have access to management to air their concerns about how the job they do can be accomplished with more efficiency.
If a person is arrested and they do not retain legal representation, they are placed into the public system.
If one does not bother to buy health insurance, they do not have representation in the cost of care.
In cases of lower to moderate income people, they are offered many public benefits as long as they apply for them. In cases where people do not apply for these benefits, they do not.
Most of us either benefit or are punished by the choices we make.
Few people actually have no choices.
This is not nor will it ever be, unless we become a socialist republic or welfare state where all wealth is controlled by government and the elite ruling class within government, an 'equal society'.
Whomever told you that( we are an equal society) is misinformed.

No one said anything about equality of outcome. That's the tired straw man you guys always trot out.

Equality of opportunity.

Your claims about the access of low or moderate income people to health care are ludicrous. You are mouthing platitudes to soothe yourself. The reality is that there are people who are shut out of the system until they already have a serious illness, at which time, they MAY get some sort of charity help.

 

[thereisnospoon]

They should be expanding Medicare, and charging a higher premium for it for younger people who cannot get insurance due to preexisting conditions-this would aid so many people.

They should offer Medicaid to adults who cannot get into other health insurance pools.

The individual mandate with a sliding scale, or a public option, is a necessity if we are going to have anything like an equal society.

There is no such thing as an 'equal society'..The Declaration of Independence theorizes that 'All men a created equal"...That is one of the tenets on which our nation is built.
Your premise assumes that 'created equal' translates to equality of outcome.
As we all know, that is unattainable in a society based on freedom and liberty.

Newsflash. We do not have equal access to anything.
For example, if one is a member of a labor union that person does not have access to management to air their concerns about how the job they do can be accomplished with more efficiency.
If a person is arrested and they do not retain legal representation, they are placed into the public system.
If one does not bother to buy health insurance, they do not have representation in the cost of care.
In cases of lower to moderate income people, they are offered many public benefits as long as they apply for them. In cases where people do not apply for these benefits, they do not.
Most of us either benefit or are punished by the choices we make.
Few people actually have no choices.
This is not nor will it ever be, unless we become a socialist republic or welfare state where all wealth is controlled by government and the elite ruling class within government, an 'equal society'.
Whomever told you that( we are an equal society) is misinformed.

No one said anything about equality of outcome. That's the tired straw man you guys always trot out.

Equality of opportunity.

Your claims about the access of low or moderate income people to health care are ludicrous. You are mouthing platitudes to soothe yourself. The reality is that there are people who are shut out of the system until they already have a serious illness, at which time, they MAY get some sort of charity help.

Yes , you did. Otherwise ,what the hell does 'equal society' refer to?
And you have nothing on the access issue.
What I wrote is 100% true. Especially the part about making choices.
BTW, we have 100% equality of opportunity. If you disagree, then you subscribe to the theory of from birth we all have a destiny laid out before us which is inescapable.
The US is the land of opportunity. Always has been and as long as the progressives don't get their paws on it, it always will be.
Question: is it your conclusion that people of foreign soils are coming to the US because of the lack of opportunity?

 

[thereisnospoon]

They should be expanding Medicare, and charging a higher premium for it for younger people who cannot get insurance due to preexisting conditions-this would aid so many people.

They should offer Medicaid to adults who cannot get into other health insurance pools.

The individual mandate with a sliding scale, or a public option, is a necessity if we are going to have anything like an equal society.

There is no such thing as an 'equal society'..The Declaration of Independence theorizes that 'All men a created equal"...That is one of the tenets on which our nation is built.
Your premise assumes that 'created equal' translates to equality of outcome.
As we all know, that is unattainable in a society based on freedom and liberty.

Newsflash. We do not have equal access to anything.
For example, if one is a member of a labor union that person does not have access to management to air their concerns about how the job they do can be accomplished with more efficiency.
If a person is arrested and they do not retain legal representation, they are placed into the public system.
If one does not bother to buy health insurance, they do not have representation in the cost of care.
In cases of lower to moderate income people, they are offered many public benefits as long as they apply for them. In cases where people do not apply for these benefits, they do not.
Most of us either benefit or are punished by the choices we make.
Few people actually have no choices.
This is not nor will it ever be, unless we become a socialist republic or welfare state where all wealth is controlled by government and the elite ruling class within government, an 'equal society'.
Whomever told you that( we are an equal society) is misinformed.

No one said anything about equality of outcome. That's the tired straw man you guys always trot out.

Equality of opportunity.

Your claims about the access of low or moderate income people to health care are ludicrous. You are mouthing platitudes to soothe yourself. The reality is that there are people who are shut out of the system until they already have a serious illness, at which time, they MAY get some sort of charity help.

BTW, you don't get to say something is ludicrous and think you will go unchallenged.
Now, explain your use of the term and then you will provide examples based on facts that support your claim that what I wrote is 'ludicrous'....Saying 'it is' , doesn't get it done.
You've got some work to do.

 

[SAT2]

Yes , you did. Otherwise ,what the hell does 'equal society' refer to?
And you have nothing on the access issue.
What I wrote is 100% true. Especially the part about making choices.
BTW, we have 100% equality of opportunity. If you disagree, then you subscribe to the theory of from birth we all have a destiny laid out before us which is inescapable.
The US is the land of opportunity. Always has been and as long as the progressives don't get their paws on it, it always will be.
Question: is it your conclusion that people of foreign soils are coming to the US because of the lack of opportunity?

I just told you. It refers to equality of opportunity. Currently, we have vastly unequal access to a basic human need-health care.

Your comments on the access issue are ignorant. What you wrote is totally imaginary. Many people have no access to Medicaid, their income is too high, but they are not offered insurance at work, and cannot afford it privately. Others are unable to get coverage because of a preexisting condition. You are living in a complete dream world.

 

[SAT2]

BTW, you don't get to say something is ludicrous and think you will go unchallenged.
Now, explain your use of the term and then you will provide examples based on facts that support your claim that what I wrote is 'ludicrous'....Saying 'it is' , doesn't get it done.
You've got some work to do.

You need to reread my post, and review exactly what I said was ludicrous.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Yes , you did. Otherwise ,what the hell does 'equal society' refer to?
And you have nothing on the access issue.
What I wrote is 100% true. Especially the part about making choices.
BTW, we have 100% equality of opportunity. If you disagree, then you subscribe to the theory of from birth we all have a destiny laid out before us which is inescapable.
The US is the land of opportunity. Always has been and as long as the progressives don't get their paws on it, it always will be.
Question: is it your conclusion that people of foreign soils are coming to the US because of the lack of opportunity?

I just told you. It refers to equality of opportunity. Currently, we have vastly unequal access to a basic human need-health care.

Your comments on the access issue are ignorant. What you wrote is totally imaginary. Many people have no access to Medicaid, their income is too high, but they are not offered insurance at work, and cannot afford it privately. Others are unable to get coverage because of a preexisting condition. You are living in a complete dream world.

That is not true. Period. It would interest you to know that NO ONE may be denied basic medical care.
What you people want is zero out of pocket/on demand medical care.
And of course, to let someone else worry about the costs.
Stop with the lib progressive pro Obamacare talking points It's boring.
It is you who are ignorant. You ignore the facts.
The rest of it is choices. A person CHOOSES to work where there is no availability of employer provided insurance. A person CHOOSES to not buy coverage on the private market. A person CHOOSES to not buy insurance before they become ill.
Now, why should those choices be used by government to punish the rest of us with a government socialized medicine plan.....
Tell ya what..If you want to participate in socialized medicine or Obama care or whatever, fine. You may have it on one condition, YOU pay for it yourself.

 

[The Rabbi]

They should be expanding Medicare, and charging a higher premium for it for younger people who cannot get insurance due to preexisting conditions-this would aid so many people.

They should offer Medicaid to adults who cannot get into other health insurance pools.

The individual mandate with a sliding scale, or a public option, is a necessity if we are going to have anything like an equal society.

There is no such thing as an 'equal society'..The Declaration of Independence theorizes that 'All men a created equal"...That is one of the tenets on which our nation is built.
Your premise assumes that 'created equal' translates to equality of outcome.
As we all know, that is unattainable in a society based on freedom and liberty.

Newsflash. We do not have equal access to anything.
For example, if one is a member of a labor union that person does not have access to management to air their concerns about how the job they do can be accomplished with more efficiency.
If a person is arrested and they do not retain legal representation, they are placed into the public system.
If one does not bother to buy health insurance, they do not have representation in the cost of care.
In cases of lower to moderate income people, they are offered many public benefits as long as they apply for them. In cases where people do not apply for these benefits, they do not.
Most of us either benefit or are punished by the choices we make.
Few people actually have no choices.
This is not nor will it ever be, unless we become a socialist republic or welfare state where all wealth is controlled by government and the elite ruling class within government, an 'equal society'.
Whomever told you that( we are an equal society) is misinformed.

No one said anything about equality of outcome. That's the tired straw man you guys always trot out.

Equality of opportunity.

Your claims about the access of low or moderate income people to health care are ludicrous. You are mouthing platitudes to soothe yourself. The reality is that there are people who are shut out of the system until they already have a serious illness, at which time, they MAY get some sort of charity help.

Not it doesn't mean equality of opportunity either. Some people had the opportunity to join their dads in business. Others don't.
It means equal under the law. That's it. Two people come before a judge, they have the same standing. One is not more entitled to some rights than the other. The case hinges on the facts and the law and that's it. Their own standing in society is irrelevant. That is All men are created equal.
Geez. It isn't that those on the left are ignorant. It's that so much of what they know is wrong.

 

[paulitician]

Of course Health Care is going to be rationed. That's the case in all nations that have Socialized Medicine. I can't believe people are still debating this. Rationing will happen. You can count on that.

 

[The Rabbi]

Of course Health Care is going to be rationed. That's the case in all nations that have Socialized Medicine. I can't believe people are still debating this. Rationing will happen. You can count on that.

It is impossible that it won't. THe system creates a subsidy so the cost is substantially lower than market. This encourages use of the system. But prices are artificially kept low, discouraging supply. The result is scarcity, which leads to rationing. THis is basic Econ 101.

 

[SAT2]

Of course Health Care is going to be rationed. That's the case in all nations that have Socialized Medicine. I can't believe people are still debating this. Rationing will happen. You can count on that.

It is impossible that it won't. THe system creates a subsidy so the cost is substantially lower than market. This encourages use of the system. But prices are artificially kept low, discouraging supply. The result is scarcity, which leads to rationing. THis is basic Econ 101.

Rationing. Which we also have in the current system.

That is not true. Period. It would interest you to know that NO ONE may be denied basic medical care.

Bullshit. Yes, they are denied basic medical care.

What you people want is zero out of pocket/on demand medical care.
And of course, to let someone else worry about the costs.
Stop with the lib progressive pro Obamacare talking points It's boring.
It is you who are ignorant. You ignore the facts.

Bullshit. You have no evidence for this. No, "we people" do not want zero out of pocket on demand medical care.

The rest of it is choices. A person CHOOSES to work where there is no availability of employer provided insurance. A person CHOOSES to not buy coverage on the private market. A person CHOOSES to not buy insurance before they become ill.
Now, why should those choices be used by government to punish the rest of us with a government socialized medicine plan.....
Tell ya what..If you want to participate in socialized medicine or Obama care or whatever, fine. You may have it on one condition, YOU pay for it yourself.

Bullshit. We do not have on demand employment. You do not work for the employer that you choose, they choose you.

Not everyone can afford the private market.

Some people become ill, lose their jobs, and then their insurance.

Some people have their greatest medical need written out of their private insurance, at the insistence of the provider.

Not it doesn't mean equality of opportunity either. Some people had the opportunity to join their dads in business. Others don't.
It means equal under the law. That's it. Two people come before a judge, they have the same standing. One is not more entitled to some rights than the other. The case hinges on the facts and the law and that's it. Their own standing in society is irrelevant. That is All men are created equal.
Geez. It isn't that those on the left are ignorant. It's that so much of what they know is wrong.

That shoe would be on your conservative foot.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[The Rabbi]

Of course Health Care is going to be rationed. That's the case in all nations that have Socialized Medicine. I can't believe people are still debating this. Rationing will happen. You can count on that.

It is impossible that it won't. THe system creates a subsidy so the cost is substantially lower than market. This encourages use of the system. But prices are artificially kept low, discouraging supply. The result is scarcity, which leads to rationing. THis is basic Econ 101.

Rationing. Which we also have in the current system.



]

Another lie of Obamacare, that we have rationing now. We do not. The only rationing that occurs is in Medicare, which is what is driving up costs elsewhere. If we had an actual market system rising prices would invite new providers. What we have is the opposite, with providers looking to get out of the system since it isn't worth it to them anymore. Obamacare will make this far worse and universal.
And Wiki sucks. That you use it testifies to your limited knowledge base.

 

[SAT2]

It is impossible that it won't. THe system creates a subsidy so the cost is substantially lower than market. This encourages use of the system. But prices are artificially kept low, discouraging supply. The result is scarcity, which leads to rationing. THis is basic Econ 101.

Rationing. Which we also have in the current system.



]

Another lie of Obamacare, that we have rationing now. We do not. The only rationing that occurs is in Medicare, which is what is driving up costs elsewhere. If we had an actual market system rising prices would invite new providers. What we have is the opposite, with providers looking to get out of the system since it isn't worth it to them anymore. Obamacare will make this far worse and universal.
And Wiki sucks. That you use it testifies to your limited knowledge base.

We have rationing now. Some folks cannot get health insurance, others cannot get the care that they need because it's excluded from their policy. There are currently annual maximums on many policies. Rationing.

Seems like since you need Wikipedia to school you, you must have a limited knowledge base.

 

[daveman]

Rationing. Which we also have in the current system.



]

Another lie of Obamacare, that we have rationing now. We do not. The only rationing that occurs is in Medicare, which is what is driving up costs elsewhere. If we had an actual market system rising prices would invite new providers. What we have is the opposite, with providers looking to get out of the system since it isn't worth it to them anymore. Obamacare will make this far worse and universal.
And Wiki sucks. That you use it testifies to your limited knowledge base.

We have rationing now. Some folks cannot get health insurance, others cannot get the care that they need because it's excluded from their policy. There are currently annual maximums on many policies. Rationing.

Seems like since you need Wikipedia to school you, you must have a limited knowledge base.

So you'd rather have government bureaucrats deciding what care you get rather than insurance companies?