NYC Teachers Paid to do Nothing

[GHook93]

It's taking months to get a hearing?

Why?

The arbiters only work 5 days out of the month.

I wonder what they do the rest of the time?

Arbitrators are often lawyers doing pro bono work or side judges with no current assignments.

Wrong! Arbitrators are usually from the legal field, but they are paid, help to a legal and ethnic primary (similar to a judge) and are a great way to settle disputes.

You won't smack down a judge simply because he/she used to be a former lawyer would you?

 

[MaggieMae]

The arbiters only work 5 days out of the month.

I wonder what they do the rest of the time?

Arbitrators are often lawyers doing pro bono work or side judges with no current assignments.

Wrong! Arbitrators are usually from the legal field, but they are paid, help to a legal and ethnic primary (similar to a judge) and are a great way to settle disputes.

You won't smack down a judge simply because he/she used to be a former lawyer would you?

Why would I do that? I worked in the legal field for 35 years. But you're right, arbitration as its own profession has grown over the years.

 

[Amanda]

They sit in "rubber rooms" for misdeeds guilty or not guilty of in the classroom or in the school setting.



700 NYC teachers are paid to do nothing - Yahoo! News

This is just another sign that shows how completely broken public education is.

 

[Dis]

Two sides of the story:

Abuse by the Union and the Abuse of Tenure:

"It is extremely difficult to fire a tenured teacher because of the protections afforded to them in their contract," spokeswoman Ann Forte said.

The nickname refers to the padded cells of old insane asylums. Some teachers say that is fitting, since some of the inhabitants are unstable and don't belong in the classroom.

The other:
Retailiation against whistleblowers and over-punishment against teachers who have a tough job, of dealing with little Johnny or Janie in the time of over-sensitivity and over-protection of America's youth!

Many teachers say they are being punished because they ran afoul of a vindictive boss or because they blew the whistle when somebody fudged test scores.

"The principal wants you out, you're gone," said Michael Thomas, a high school math teacher who has been in a reassignment center for 14 months after accusing an assistant principal of tinkering with test results.

Cohen said she was charged with using abusive language when a girl cut her with scissors

Suker said he was falsely accused of throwing a girl's test sign-up form in the garbage during an argument.

Nobile was assigned to a rubber room in 2007, "supposedly for pushing a boy while I was breaking up a fight." He contends the school system is retaliating against him for exposing wrongdoing.

Look I know the kneejerk reaction on both sides:
The Right: Damn lazy teacher, damn unamerican tenure system and damn liberal teaching system. But most teachers don't make that much! In fact its at most times a thankless and highly low paying job. The pay is poor, [/b]the benefits suck and you don't even accumulate social security benefits![/b] Then you have to deal with kids who many are victims of bad parenting and you have to be overly careful due to insane about of protection the politicians put on them. I would say most teachers get into teaching, because they honestly like teaching, like working with kids and like the job!

The Left:
**** you George W Bush its your fault. The Tensure system is need to protect teachers from Republicans especially Dick Cheaney. I think saw saw the Big Dick in NY, hide the kids! We need to protect our children, but teachers should be protected also!
Yet the left will ignore that NY is WASTING $65 mil on a problem that seems like if could be solved much easier! The tensure allows many bad teachers to keep a job and takes away a high incentive for a teacher to work harder and remain impartial -THE FEAR OF LOSING ONES JOB! Whistleblowing happens everywhere and there should be laws protecting it, but TENURE, come on now that is just plain STUPID!

I actually heard that teachers make their salary at retirement for the rest of their natural lives... Wouldn't that be the same thing as SS, only better, because they don't make any less than they did, whereas when we retire, we make a fraction of what we made up until retirement?

 

[GHook93]

Two sides of the story:

Abuse by the Union and the Abuse of Tenure:

"It is extremely difficult to fire a tenured teacher because of the protections afforded to them in their contract," spokeswoman Ann Forte said.

The nickname refers to the padded cells of old insane asylums. Some teachers say that is fitting, since some of the inhabitants are unstable and don't belong in the classroom.

The other:
Retailiation against whistleblowers and over-punishment against teachers who have a tough job, of dealing with little Johnny or Janie in the time of over-sensitivity and over-protection of America's youth!

Many teachers say they are being punished because they ran afoul of a vindictive boss or because they blew the whistle when somebody fudged test scores.

"The principal wants you out, you're gone," said Michael Thomas, a high school math teacher who has been in a reassignment center for 14 months after accusing an assistant principal of tinkering with test results.

Cohen said she was charged with using abusive language when a girl cut her with scissors

Suker said he was falsely accused of throwing a girl's test sign-up form in the garbage during an argument.

Nobile was assigned to a rubber room in 2007, "supposedly for pushing a boy while I was breaking up a fight." He contends the school system is retaliating against him for exposing wrongdoing.

Look I know the kneejerk reaction on both sides:
The Right: Damn lazy teacher, damn unamerican tenure system and damn liberal teaching system. But most teachers don't make that much! In fact its at most times a thankless and highly low paying job. The pay is poor, [/b]the benefits suck and you don't even accumulate social security benefits![/b] Then you have to deal with kids who many are victims of bad parenting and you have to be overly careful due to insane about of protection the politicians put on them. I would say most teachers get into teaching, because they honestly like teaching, like working with kids and like the job!

The Left:
**** you George W Bush its your fault. The Tensure system is need to protect teachers from Republicans especially Dick Cheaney. I think saw saw the Big Dick in NY, hide the kids! We need to protect our children, but teachers should be protected also!
Yet the left will ignore that NY is WASTING $65 mil on a problem that seems like if could be solved much easier! The tensure allows many bad teachers to keep a job and takes away a high incentive for a teacher to work harder and remain impartial -THE FEAR OF LOSING ONES JOB! Whistleblowing happens everywhere and there should be laws protecting it, but TENURE, come on now that is just plain STUPID!

I actually heard that teachers make their salary at retirement for the rest of their natural lives... Wouldn't that be the same thing as SS, only better, because they don't make any less than they did, whereas when we retire, we make a fraction of what we made up until retirement?

I heard the TSA plan is not anything to brag about, but I could be wrong!

 

[Dis]

Two sides of the story:

Abuse by the Union and the Abuse of Tenure:


The other:
Retailiation against whistleblowers and over-punishment against teachers who have a tough job, of dealing with little Johnny or Janie in the time of over-sensitivity and over-protection of America's youth!


Look I know the kneejerk reaction on both sides:
The Right: Damn lazy teacher, damn unamerican tenure system and damn liberal teaching system. But most teachers don't make that much! In fact its at most times a thankless and highly low paying job. The pay is poor, [/b]the benefits suck and you don't even accumulate social security benefits![/b] Then you have to deal with kids who many are victims of bad parenting and you have to be overly careful due to insane about of protection the politicians put on them. I would say most teachers get into teaching, because they honestly like teaching, like working with kids and like the job!

The Left:
**** you George W Bush its your fault. The Tensure system is need to protect teachers from Republicans especially Dick Cheaney. I think saw saw the Big Dick in NY, hide the kids! We need to protect our children, but teachers should be protected also!
Yet the left will ignore that NY is WASTING $65 mil on a problem that seems like if could be solved much easier! The tensure allows many bad teachers to keep a job and takes away a high incentive for a teacher to work harder and remain impartial -THE FEAR OF LOSING ONES JOB! Whistleblowing happens everywhere and there should be laws protecting it, but TENURE, come on now that is just plain STUPID!

I actually heard that teachers make their salary at retirement for the rest of their natural lives... Wouldn't that be the same thing as SS, only better, because they don't make any less than they did, whereas when we retire, we make a fraction of what we made up until retirement?

I heard the TSA plan is not anything to brag about, but I could be wrong!

I didn't say it was anything to brag about - I said I heard it was a guaranteed source of income that can not be revoked. Seems to me that knowing that you're guaranteed a check for so long as you live isn't all that bad.

 

[Soaring]

They sit in "rubber rooms" for misdeeds guilty or not guilty of in the classroom or in the school setting.



700 NYC teachers are paid to do nothing - Yahoo! News

If the state of Ny is treating their teachers like this, and are still paying their salaries for doing nothing, they are dumber than a box of rocks. Good God, how stupid can you get?

 

[editec]

I would not blame the unions or the teachers, I blame the administrators and the system. Unions have rules but illegality or actions detrimental to children would still get you fired. Something is wrong with this story. As far as the teachers sitting around doing nothing, probably half or more people in the world would do the same if they could earn that kind of money for doing nothing. I bet lots have other jobs as well. I was in a union in my early days and saw many fired so something is amiss in this situation.

its the Unions that say they must do this
so how is it the administrators fault?

Who do you suppose is in charge of the hearings?

 

[DiveCon]

I would not blame the unions or the teachers, I blame the administrators and the system. Unions have rules but illegality or actions detrimental to children would still get you fired. Something is wrong with this story. As far as the teachers sitting around doing nothing, probably half or more people in the world would do the same if they could earn that kind of money for doing nothing. I bet lots have other jobs as well. I was in a union in my early days and saw many fired so something is amiss in this situation.

its the Unions that say they must do this
so how is it the administrators fault?

Who do you suppose is in charge of the hearings?

does it matter when the Union contracts demand this?

 

[manifold]

I'm with Edi. The problem is how long it takes to get a hearing. There's no excuse for that. Seems to me the solution is pretty simple too... a speedy trial.

 

[DiveCon]

I'm with Edi. The problem is how long it takes to get a hearing. There's no excuse for that. Seems to me the solution is pretty simple too... a speedy trial.

actually, i agree on that point, why are they taking months to review this
if they need more arbitors, it surely wouldnt cost that much to hire a few more when you consider how much it is costing to drag it out

 

[random3434]

Some of you wondered about teachers retirement. Here is a quick look at Indiana's:

The Indiana State Teachers' Retirement Fund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[random3434]

I'm with Edi. The problem is how long it takes to get a hearing. There's no excuse for that. Seems to me the solution is pretty simple too... a speedy trial.

actually, i agree on that point, why are they taking months to review this
if they need more arbitors, it surely wouldnt cost that much to hire a few more when you consider how much it is costing to drag it out

I also agree.

 

[garyd]

Almost sixty percent of all Union workers are now government employees and it's higher than that in many states. Teachers are just the tip of the iceberg.

As for protections for whistle blowers try proving in most states that you were a whistle blower who was being retaliated against. When you get the chance which could be a very long way down the road. given the back up in the civil court system most places and that is where that particular item almost always gets resolved.

 

[MaggieMae]

They sit in "rubber rooms" for misdeeds guilty or not guilty of in the classroom or in the school setting.



700 NYC teachers are paid to do nothing - Yahoo! News

If the state of Ny is treating their teachers like this, and are still paying their salaries for doing nothing, they are dumber than a box of rocks. Good God, how stupid can you get?

I doubt it occurs strictly in the State of New York.

 

[MaggieMae]

Echo Zulu -- Can you read my sig?

Magic ink.

 

[Annie]

Almost sixty percent of all Union workers are now government employees and it's higher than that in many states. Teachers are just the tip of the iceberg.

As for protections for whistle blowers try proving in most states that you were a whistle blower who was being retaliated against. When you get the chance which could be a very long way down the road. given the back up in the civil court system most places and that is where that particular item almost always gets resolved.

Indeed:

Kausfiles : Sanford's Insurance Policy

Wagner Act Unionism is bringing its benefits to the Bay Area, where the BART transit system may go on strike despite having negotiated what seem to be generous wages and benefits:

A top-scale station agent and top-scale train operator each make $30.01 per hour, $62,860 a year, in base pay. The transit system also pays 100 percent of the so-called employee contribution toward pensions — an amount equivalent to 7 percent of a salary — though many other California public agencies require workers to pick up some or all of that contribution toward their state pensions.
Overall, BART employees - including managers and hourly workers - get average total annual pay of $71,633, including overtime, and BART picks up an average of $48,000 a year for each worker's benefits, the transit system said.
Workers contribute $81.90 a month toward medical insurance.​

But for all that the taxpayers get a finely-wrought mesh of work rules:

Antiquated work rules hurt BART finances by ramping up overtime, BART officials said.
They point to rules requiring that two workers remove seat covers and backing for cleaning. A utility worker unsnaps the cushion. A journeyman mechanic is called in to remove two screws for the seat backing.
Among cleaning crews, a worker in one job classification cleans inside stations and another worker in another classification cleans outside the roof line of stations.​

This isn't an example from the 1950s. It's an example from this week. Why would anyone fail to support a "card check" reform designed to encourage the spread of these practices? They worked in Detroit, right?...
Update: Here is a searchable database of BART salaries. ... It's the #1 most-viewed page in the Contra Costa Times at the moment, so it might be slow to load. ...

 

[N4mddissent]

This may be a case of a bad system. I am ambivalent on teacher's unions and many other educational issues. I have some pretty serious criticisms of some of the stances and policies supported by many teacher's unions.

In this case, the issue is related to tenure which is not a perfect system. I have personal experience with bad teachers. I know teachers that should not be in a classroom. I understand the outrage at it being so difficult to get rid of these teachers. However, I think the coversation misses some key points.

1. We must have a solution to the problem supposedly addressed by tenure. Say a student dislikes a teacher. Or perhaps the parent dislikes a teacher. Maybe a parent or student objects to the subject matter, or perhaps the student is disruptive and doesn't like the disciplinary measures taken. Maybe the student is failing the class and looking for an excuse. In any of these cases a student or parent may make a claim of inappropriate conduct by the teacher. The parent may threaten a lawsuit. The cost and publicity of a lawsuit is a serious threat to a school system (especially with elected school boards). The parent or student may have no case. But often, the school system would find it easier just to avoid renewing a teacher's contract than to go through the process of fighting such charges. This would make teachers feel powerless to discipline or criticize students. This would cause them to possibly inflate grades or avoid teaching controversial material. So how do we prevent this situation without a system where teachers are free to teach without immediate fear of losing their jobs. A system where they have the right to defend themselves and maintain job security. At the same time, if the accusation is serious (regardless of merit or evidence, just regarding the nature of the accusation), it also falls upon the school to insure the safety of the students.

For example, a student charges sexual harassment. The teacher has never had such charges before. You may know of no other incidents and this teacher has always done an excellent job. His students have some of the highest test scores in the state. You might feel strongly that they are baseless charges from a disgruntled student. You are sure an investigation will prove this. But, your choices are

A) fire one of your best teachers for no good reason
B) allow a man charged with sexual harassment to be around young students every day at his job.

These choices suck. That's why you end up with C) put them in a room where they are not around students, but don't fire them right away.

2. The question is: How do bad teachers get tenure? Tenure is not given from the time of hiring (at least not in any of the states I know). There is usually a probationary period of 2 or 3 years before the teacher is granted tenure. During these years, I think we have to do a better job of demanding our administrators do a much better job of scrutinizing new teachers so that poor teachers do not get locked into tenured positions before we realize how poor they are.

 

[garyd]

They are essentially unable to apply effective discipline now and have been for years. Between social promotions of kids who won't or can't do the work and R.O.E.s concerning kids who are discipline problems. Your average teacher in some school districts feels like he's had a good day if no one's threatened to stab him or her. It is my understanding that in L.A. and New York the only way to get a more dangerous job than School teacher is to move to Alaska and hire on as a novice crab fisherman.

I quit the school teaching biz after a 13 year old boy pulled a knife on me on the play ground and the next day I got cussed out by a five year old girl who was in the building an hour early. And this was about as rural in Oklahoma as you can get.