Now that it's done, what [i]should[/i] have been done?

[Bern80]

Pretty self explanatory question on the surface, but I ask because there is a lot of this I can't quite wrap my around. I just want to be able a understand this a little better. Let's play follow the money for real startingh with the lendee of say a mortgage owing the lender, GO.

Fast forward to topic question: I guess to answer that we would need to what would have happened if just plain didn't do anything, which many were advocating.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If we didn't do anything we would enter a recession where the market would begin to stabilize itself. Americans would have to live within their means for a year or a little more.

 

[plt42]

Fast forward to topic question: I guess to answer that we would need to what would have happened if just plain didn't do anything, which many were advocating.

My take on the situation:
Without propping up the lending institutions, credit lines would dry up.
Without available credit lines, corporations and small businesses would not be able to carry out day to day operations. There would be no business expansion, no purchases of necessary or replacement equipment, and an inability to meet large payrolls (since these are often done on a short-time turn-around loan). If the business can't expand. no new jobs would be created. Existing employees may not be paid and would lose their jobs. Contractors who would have been involved in expansion processes would lose contracts and have to lay off workers. Suppliers of services and products to these business would have no market and suffer the same consequence.

Its already begun. The Sonic Restaurant is only one example that this scenario has already come to fruition. Their primary lender has already frozen their credit bringing to a halt their expansion plans...some already in progress. Multiply this by the number of large corporations and small business across the country.

This is over simplified, perhaps, but it is what would happen if credit lines to business were to be unavailable. No credit, no business, no jobs. No jobs, no pay, no mortgage payments, no savings, etc.

Only one reason why I believe that there was no option but to push through the bailout or rescue or whatever you choose to call it.

JMHO

 

[CrimsonWhite]

We should hold this discussion until the House votes on the bill.

 

[Jon]

We should hold this discussion until the House votes on the bill.

Why bother? With all the pork shoved into it, members of both parties that originally voted against it will be all over it.

I just wish the PEOPLE would take a mother fucking stand and contact their representatives and tell them NO on this bill.

 

[Ultra]

I just wish the PEOPLE would take a mother fucking stand and contact their representatives and tell them NO on this bill.

Do you really think that Congress would listen?

 

[clane1987]

Monday, September 29th, 2008
The Rich Are Staging a Coup This Morning ...a message from Michael Moore

Friends,

Let me cut to the chase. The biggest robbery in the history of this country is taking place as you read this. Though no guns are being used, 300 million hostages are being taken. Make no mistake about it: After stealing a half trillion dollars to line the pockets of their war-profiteering backers for the past five years, after lining the pockets of their fellow oilmen to the tune of over a hundred billion dollars in just the last two years, Bush and his cronies -- who must soon vacate the White House -- are looting the U.S. Treasury of every dollar they can grab. They are swiping as much of the silverware as they can on their way out the door.

No matter what they say, no matter how many scare words they use, they are up to their old tricks of creating fear and confusion in order to make and keep themselves and the upper one percent filthy rich. Just read the first four paragraphs of the lead story in last Monday's New York Times and you can see what the real deal is:

"Even as policy makers worked on details of a $700 billion bailout of the financial industry, Wall Street began looking for ways to profit from it.

"Financial firms were lobbying to have all manner of troubled investments covered, not just those related to mortgages.

"At the same time, investment firms were jockeying to oversee all the assets that Treasury plans to take off the books of financial institutions, a role that could earn them hundreds of millions of dollars a year in fees.

"Nobody wants to be left out of Treasury's proposal to buy up bad assets of financial institutions."
Unbelievable. Wall Street and its backers created this mess and now they are going to clean up like bandits. Even Rudy Giuliani is lobbying for his firm to be hired (and paid) to "consult" in the bailout.

The problem is, nobody truly knows what this "collapse" is all about. Even Treasury Secretary Paulson admitted he doesn't know the exact amount that is needed (he just picked the $700 billion number out of his head!). The head of the congressional budget office said he can't figure it out nor can he explain it to anyone.

And yet, they are screeching about how the end is near! Panic! Recession! The Great Depression! Y2K! Bird flu! Killer bees! We must pass the bailout bill today!! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Falling for whom? NOTHING in this "bailout" package will lower the price of the gas you have to put in your car to get to work. NOTHING in this bill will protect you from losing your home. NOTHING in this bill will give you health insurance.

Health insurance? Mike, why are you bringing this up? What's this got to do with the Wall Street collapse?

It has everything to do with it. This so-called "collapse" was triggered by the massive defaulting and foreclosures going on with people's home mortgages. Do you know why so many Americans are losing their homes? To hear the Republicans describe it, it's because too many working class idiots were given mortgages that they really couldn't afford. Here's the truth: The number one cause of people declaring bankruptcy is because of medical bills. Let me state this simply: If we had had universal health coverage, this mortgage "crisis" may never have happened.

This bailout's mission is to protect the obscene amount of wealth that has been accumulated in the last eight years. It's to protect the top shareholders who own and control corporate America. It's to make sure their yachts and mansions and "way of life" go uninterrupted while the rest of America suffers and struggles to pay the bills. Let the rich suffer for once. Let them pay for the bailout. We are spending 400 million dollars a day on the war in Iraq. Let them end the war immediately and save us all another half-trillion dollars!

I have to stop writing this and you have to stop reading it. They are staging a financial coup this morning in our country. They are hoping Congress will act fast before they stop to think, before we have a chance to stop them ourselves. So stop reading this and do something -- NOW! Here's what you can do immediately:

1. Call or e-mail Senator Obama. Tell him he does not need to be sitting there trying to help prop up Bush and Cheney and the mess they've made. Tell him we know he has the smarts to slow this thing down and figure out what's the best route to take. Tell him the rich have to pay for whatever help is offered. Use the leverage we have now to insist on a moratorium on home foreclosures, to insist on a move to universal health coverage, and tell him that we the people need to be in charge of the economic decisions that affect our lives, not the barons of Wall Street.

2. Take to the streets. Participate in one of the hundreds of quickly-called demonstrations that are taking place all over the country (especially those near Wall Street and DC).

3. Call your Representative in Congress and your Senators. (click here to find their phone numbers). Tell them what you told Senator Obama.

When you screw up in life, there is hell to pay. Each and every one of you reading this knows that basic lesson and has paid the consequences of your actions at some point. In this great democracy, we cannot let there be one set of rules for the vast majority of hard-working citizens, and another set of rules for the elite, who, when they screw up, are handed one more gift on a silver platter. No more! Not again!

Yours,
Michael Moore
[email protected]
MichaelMoore.com

P.S. Having read further the details of this bailout bill, you need to know you are being lied to. They talk about how they will prevent golden parachutes. It says NOTHING about what these executives and fat cats will make in SALARY. According to Rep. Brad Sherman of California, these top managers will continue to receive million-dollar-a-month paychecks under this new bill. There is no direct ownership given to the American people for the money being handed over. Foreign banks and investors will be allowed to receive billion-dollar handouts. A large chunk of this $700 billion is going to be given directly to Chinese and Middle Eastern banks. There is NO guarantee of ever seeing that money again.

P.P.S. From talking to people I know in DC, they say the reason so many Dems are behind this is because Wall Street this weekend put a gun to their heads and said either turn over the $700 billion or the first thing we'll start blowing up are the pension funds and 401(k)s of your middle class constituents. The Dems are scared they may make good on their threat. But this is not the time to back down or act like the typical Democrat we have witnessed for the last eight years. The Dems handed a stolen election over to Bush. The Dems gave Bush the votes he needed to invade a sovereign country. Once they took over Congress in 2007, they refused to pull the plug on the war. And now they have been cowered into being accomplices in the crime of the century. You have to call them now and say "NO!" If we let them do this, just imagine how hard it will be to get anything good done when President Obama is in the White House. THESE DEMOCRATS ARE ONLY AS STRONG AS THE BACKBONE WE GIVE THEM. CALL CONGRESS NOW.

I tend to agree with Michael Moore on this policy.

 

[Ultra]

I tend to agree with Michael Moore on this policy.

AND...... You admit it in public.

 

[rayboyusmc]

I agree. The market will work itself out without their interference on behalf of the banks the the CEOs.

We will experience a recession. Might be a good thing for many people to finally realize you get nothing for nothing and damn little for two cents.

We have created a culture of credit slaves that needs to be adjusted.

No frigging bailout.

 

[Care4all]

Why bother? With all the pork shoved into it, members of both parties that originally voted against it will be all over it.

I just wish the PEOPLE would take a mother fucking stand and contact their representatives and tell them NO on this bill.

the blue dog democrats will vote against it because the corporate tax cuts added to it by repubs is not offset with spending cuts!!! of course there are not enough bluedogs to stop it, but with some repubs not voting for it either, it could be a close call!

 

[editec]

If credit lines dry up because we continue NOT to take credit back from the bankers, then yes, this nation(this wrold) WILL go into a terrible depression.

It will last far longer than a year and millions of people will die.

You grocery stores are ALREADY carrying less -products than they were a month ago.

Doubt me?

Go check. that's what I'm seeing right now.

How much money do you suppose people whose living depend on selling cars are have, anyway?

You think most people can go a year without a slary or something?

And if millions of people cannot buy stuff?

Those who do have money will be hard pressed to find anything to buy, believe me.

IF YOUR NEIGHBORS ARE GETTING POORER SO ARE YOU.​

 

[Care4all]

i saw a bunch of local banks show up on cnbc financial program saying it was a lie about local banks and credit unions not having money...that they had plenty of money, they were loaning money left and right...they said they were solid because they never got involved in all the mortgage SCAMS that the big banks did....

this whole thing is a farce...

and they are still telling us we will be going in to a recession, even with the artificial propping up of the banks with the 700 billion....

 

[editec]

This problem is at the top end of our economic system.

Down here on Main street isn't the problem.

but if corporations can't float bonds to do business as usual?

the disruption of our system is going to begin to effect us soon enough.

We do need to fix it, we don't need to fix it the way I think they're planning on fixing it.

In fact, in the long run the fix I think they're planning will encourage it to happen again.