Not understanding the rejection of God...

[Book of Jeremiah]

I am not a religious man. I haven't been to church in about 20 years. I don't remember the last time I prayed. God is not a part of my life in any real sense.
But I do not reject God. I find no contempt when I see a religious symbol. I do not run in horror if someone says "bless you" when I sneeze.
I do not understand the Theophobia of the left, in which they believe they are somehow violated when anything religious is anywhere near them.
Why?

Theophobia? Maybe it is. More like Religiophobia I think. I see the harm caused by blind faith standing in for reason, the same principle/problem with the big government Statism of the left. Theirs is a religion of sorts as well, using the same principle of doubt suppression of religious blind faith. God is love? Yes, but more than that. God is Truth.

I believe in God, and whatever It is will be found by the pursuit of Truth, not by intentionally obscuring it.

I can tell you are in deep thought today, P.T. Your overthinking again. People with a high IQ have a propensity for it I find. Let me offer you this truth. What is faith but blind? True faith, I am speaking of. You cannot see faith with the natural eyes yet faith is. You cannot understand what causes faith to manifest itself yet you must accept faith for what it is - Faith. In order to "hear faith" you must have faith to hear it with - the five senses are representative of the five senses in the spirit realm - by faith - example: you cannot witness an eagle soar if his leg is yet tied by a cord to the earth. Your mind cannot comprehend spiritual things until you are willing to stop comprehending spiritual things with a natural mind..

Unbelievers demonstrate faith every day. Everytime they get on an airplane and expect to be lifted into the air and taken to their destination - that is faith - they do not understand how that plane lifts off the ground yet they trust it will fly rather than to fall of into the sea at the end of the runway! You sit down in a chair and have faith it will be capable of holding you up.

There are many things done by faith ever single day and all of which is "blind" yet people do it even without knowing it. God is love. Yes. Without Love you cannot know God. Even if you have truth. (some) I can provide ample evidence of that even on this very board. Still bring up truth and it will lead you directly back to faith. How can you believe Jesus is the Son of God if not by faith? Yet it is truth. How can you believe that the signs shall follow the believers if not by faith? Yet it is the truth. How can you believe the word of God when it says the wicked shall be turned into hell and all the nations that forget God. Psalm 9: 17 Yet it is truth - how shall you know it if not by faith that God's word is truth? You see? You're over thinking it. I am telling you. There is no conflict between the Word, the Spirit of Truth and the God who is Love - they are One and the Same. It is 1 x 1 x1 = 1. Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is One. - Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

P.T. God intentionally obscured the truth for His own purposes. To the Jew - for the salvation of the Gentile. It is written: ........salvation is from the Jews. - John 4: 22 From the wicked - Jesus spoke in parables so that only those with eyes would see and those with ears would hear.. Through the preaching of the Gospel.. The Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing but to those who are being saved it is the power of God. Gods ways are higher than our ways.. this must be accepted or you are going to be learning and learning and learning while never coming to the understanding of the Truth! - Jeri

It is written: If our gospel (truth) be hidden ( obscured from sight ) it is hidden from them which are lost. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ who is the image of God, should shine upon them.
- 2 Corinthian 4:3, 4

 

[PainefulTruth]

I can tell you are in deep thought today, P.T. Your overthinking again. People with a high IQ have a propensity for it I find.

Well then, I guess I don't have anything to worry about. Fortunately, reason comes off as inspiring the appearance of intelligence, when mostly what it is is just sweat, experience and dedication. Average intelligence is all that's required and all I can offer.

Let me offer you this truth. What is faith but blind?

I use a ship analogy, paraphrasing a true genius (Einstein) in the process: Reason is (or should be) at the controls, and faith is the motivation/engine. Faith without reason is blind and runs off course. Reason without faith is dead in the water.

True faith, I am speaking of. You cannot see faith with the natural eyes yet faith is. You cannot understand what causes faith to manifest itself yet you must accept faith for what it is - Faith.

But faith can and must be guided. Every revealed religion in the world is driven by blind faith. Is any one of them right? No, none.

Unbelievers demonstrate faith every day.

True, see above.

Everytime they get on an airplane and expect to be lifted into the air and taken to their destination - that is faith - they do not understand how that plane lifts off the ground yet they trust it will fly rather than to fall of into the sea at the end of the runway! You sit down in a chair and have faith it will be capable of holding you up.

Yes, courage supported by reason. Even those who aren't familiar with the science, know that flight is explained by science, and if they took a few minutes, they could understand it. Fear of flight isn't the fear derived from ignorance of scientific forces that are proven trillions of times every day, it's the fear of human error in its operation.

How can you believe Jesus is the Son of God if not by faith?

You can't, except by blind, unreasoned faith.

Yet it is truth.

So you say that you, your family, your religion, Paul, Moses say. The only Truth I see is manufactured or misinterpreted hear-say passed down over thousands of years.

How can you believe the word of God when it says the wicked shall be turned into hell and all the nations that forget God.

Because I can't believe God would want to spend eternity knowing Hell exists--ostensibly to make God and the heavenly host feel better through their suffering.

Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is One.

The Shema Yisrael is Judaism's greatest contribution to theology. And of course that One God is the One Truth.

God intentionally obscured the truth for His own purposes.

You realize that you just said God lies. To me, that is the only blasphemy. Even (our internal) Devil only tells one lie--"Your vanity is justified".

From the wicked - Jesus spoke in parables so that only those with eyes would see and those with ears would hear.

Now you're over-thinking things in your zeal to promote your blind faith. Using a fiction to tell a Truth is not a lie since it's message is the Truth and the story is understood to be a fiction for that purpose--to promote understanding, not the deception behind a lie. A lie directs its listeners away from Truth. Genesis is a parable that became a lie when it was made to be literal

It is written: If our gospel (truth) be hidden ( obscured from sight ) it is hidden from them which are lost. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ who is the image of God, should shine upon them.
- 2 Corinthian 4:3, 4

Paul of Tarsus. Tarsus=six hundred, threescore and six, the number of the Beast...the Roman HQ of Mithraism and it's Apostle. "Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear."

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jeremiah
I can tell you are in deep thought today, P.T. Your overthinking again. People with a high IQ have a propensity for it I find.
Well then, I guess I don't have anything to worry about. Fortunately, reason comes off as inspiring the appearance of intelligence, when mostly what it is is just sweat, experience and dedication. Average intelligence is all that's required and all I can offer.

I believe your above average, P.T. Your humility is noted though.

Quote:
Let me offer you this truth. What is faith but blind?
I use a ship analogy, paraphrasing a true genius (Einstein) in the process: Reason is (or should be) at the controls, and faith is the motivation/engine. Faith without reason is blind and runs off course. Reason without faith is dead in the water.

Einstein is one of my favorites. Einstein is the one who said imagination is greater than knowledge. Where is the reason behind imagination? If a thought comes to you did it come "from you"? Not necessarily. Much of what is credited to man has come from God, P.T. God is all the reason you need. Does the clay tell the potter what to make of it? Still I will give you some reasons behind faith so you will not doubt the veracity of it to operate in the realm of the supernatural.. read on......


Quote:
True faith, I am speaking of. You cannot see faith with the natural eyes yet faith is. You cannot understand what causes faith to manifest itself yet you must accept faith for what it is - Faith.
But faith can and must be guided. Every revealed religion in the world is driven by blind faith. Is any one of them right? No, none.

Wrong. God counted Abrahams faith as righteousness. Moses had faith to raise his rod and the red sea parted, Abraham had faith to obey God and put his own son on the altar, Noah had faith to build an Ark even though it had never rained before.. What did these men have in common? A relationship with God. The one we agree is the One True God. Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is One! Again, P.T. Faith is guided by God. God is at the helm of this ship. God transcends "reason".. you no more need "reason" as you define it - than you would oars in a sailboat once the sail goes up and the wind begins to blow......this is not about a religion, not a man or a woman, P.T. This is about God. A relationship with God. Ok?


Quote:
Unbelievers demonstrate faith every day.
True, see above.
I did. Who is the author of Faith and the Finisher of Faith? God.


Quote:
Everytime they get on an airplane and expect to be lifted into the air and taken to their destination - that is faith - they do not understand how that plane lifts off the ground yet they trust it will fly rather than to fall of into the sea at the end of the runway! You sit down in a chair and have faith it will be capable of holding you up.
Yes, courage supported by reason. Even those who aren't familiar with the science, know that flight is explained by science, and if they took a few minutes, they could understand it. Fear of flight isn't the fear derived from ignorance of scientific forces that are proven trillions of times every day, it's the fear of human error in its operation.

If you took a couple of minutes, P.T. you could understand it. Not everyone can. For the rest of us it is an act of faith. Plain and simple. Let's try this example:

If you tell me to pick you up from the airport on Sunday at 1:00 p.m. - you do not know me.. you hope I will keep my word but perhaps I will not - so far as you know.... if you call your parents and say pick me up from the airport on Sunday at 1:00 p.m. - you know they will be there. That is faith. Faith is based on trust. Faith is based on relationship. Faith is based on many things, P.T. and therein Faith is not without reason. Do you trust your parents? Yes? You have faith in them. Do you have an abiding relationship, deep love for your parents? Yes? You have faith in them. You see how easily defined this matter of reason & faith is? Very elementary. A child can do it. So can you.

Faith is based on relationship. The greater the relationship? The greater the Faith.


Quote:
How can you believe Jesus is the Son of God if not by faith?
You can't, except by blind, unreasoned faith.

Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, P.T. Jesus is the Word. John 1:1


Quote:
Yet it is truth.
So you say that you, your family, your religion, Paul, Moses say. The only Truth I see is manufactured or misinterpreted hear-say passed down over thousands of years.

And we do not accept Moses because...................? What exactly is your issue with Moses? Did I miss something before?


Quote:
How can you believe the word of God when it says the wicked shall be turned into hell and all the nations that forget God.
Because I can't believe God would want to spend eternity knowing Hell exists--ostensibly to make God and the heavenly host feel better through their suffering.

Where did you think God was going to send Satan? He is an eternal being -angels do not die - neither do spirits for that matter - he had to go somewhere, P.T. Think about it. Hell was not created for human beings. Hell was created for Satan and the angels who rebelled with him. Suppose you are Einstein and something you have created becomes a diabolical weapon that could destroy the earth. Would you not contain it in a place that would not bring harm to the rest of the earth out of your love for humanity? Of course you would.. you are not looking at this from Gods perspective but rather your own... God takes no pleasure in the death of those who have chosen to serve Satan rather than Him.. God takes no pleasure in the death of any who have rejected his Son because he knows full well the wrath Satan will be inflicting eternally on such people. That is why he desires to wake them up while there is still life in them and they can repent....


Quote:
Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is One.
The Shema Yisrael is Judaism's greatest contribution to theology. And of course that One God is the One Truth.

Of course the G-d of Israel is the One Truth.
Is there any other God? No. I know not any.


Quote:
God intentionally obscured the truth for His own purposes.
You realize that you just said God lies. To me, that is the only blasphemy. Even (our internal) Devil only tells one lie--"Your vanity is justified".

Obscurity is not a lie! Did Joseph lie when he hid his own identity from his brothers? Did he not reveal it later on? Of course he did and Jesus shall reveal himself to his own brethren in due time as well. Does this now make Christ a liar? Because for a season he allowed himself hidden so that the Gentiles might be grafted into Abrahams family? Does God not have the right to do what he will concerning his own creation? Yes. God has every right. He is God.


Quote:
From the wicked - Jesus spoke in parables so that only those with eyes would see and those with ears would hear.
Now you're over-thinking things in your zeal to promote your blind faith. Using a fiction to tell a Truth is not a lie since it's message is the Truth and the story is understood to be a fiction for that purpose--to promote understanding, not the deception behind a lie. A lie directs its listeners away from Truth. Genesis is a parable that became a lie when it was made to be literal

Fiction? The parables were not fiction, he was speaking truth in a way that those who were coming to him would understand it while those who were not would not... You have a wrong understanding of the parables Jesus spoke, P.T. Genesis is the story of creation. Will you now accuse God of being a liar? No. God desires man to take His Word literally. Do you not desire yourself to be taken literally? It is written: Let the Word of God be true and every man be found a liar ( who denies it ). Every word of it is true. Every word, P.T.. Believe it.


Quote:
It is written: If our gospel (truth) be hidden ( obscured from sight ) it is hidden from them which are lost. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ who is the image of God, should shine upon them.
- 2 Corinthian 4:3, 4
Paul of Tarsus. Tarsus=six hundred, threescore and six, the number of the Beast...the Roman HQ of Mithraism and it's Apostle. "Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear."

Would you care to expound on that one? Thank you in advance for your response. This one is beyond me as Paul is not from Rome. The first church was not from Rome. The first believers did not come out of Rome. The first believers were Jewish. Therein I fail to see the connection between Paul & Rome HQ's. Thanks, P.T. Interesting discussion.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

It is written:

The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak in parables?"

He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables:

Though seeing, they do not see,
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

You will ever be hearing but never understanding, you will ever be seeing but never perceiving, For this people's heart has become calloused, they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and I would heal them. - Jesus

Matthew 13: 11, 12, 13, 14, 15

Parables are not fiction. (false). They are mysteries that can only be revealed by the Holy Spirit.

Good night, P.T.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

P.T., as you did not respond I take it your questions have been answered so we can end the discussion here. If you have any further questions, feel free. If I cannot find it for you I will ask someone else to help you out. - Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I can tell you are in deep thought today, P.T. Your overthinking again. People with a high IQ have a propensity for it I find.

Well then, I guess I don't have anything to worry about. Fortunately, reason comes off as inspiring the appearance of intelligence, when mostly what it is is just sweat, experience and dedication. Average intelligence is all that's required and all I can offer.

Let me offer you this truth. What is faith but blind?

I use a ship analogy, paraphrasing a true genius (Einstein) in the process: Reason is (or should be) at the controls, and faith is the motivation/engine. Faith without reason is blind and runs off course. Reason without faith is dead in the water.



But faith can and must be guided. Every revealed religion in the world is driven by blind faith. Is any one of them right? No, none.



True, see above.



Yes, courage supported by reason. Even those who aren't familiar with the science, know that flight is explained by science, and if they took a few minutes, they could understand it. Fear of flight isn't the fear derived from ignorance of scientific forces that are proven trillions of times every day, it's the fear of human error in its operation.



You can't, except by blind, unreasoned faith.



So you say that you, your family, your religion, Paul, Moses say. The only Truth I see is manufactured or misinterpreted hear-say passed down over thousands of years.



Because I can't believe God would want to spend eternity knowing Hell exists--ostensibly to make God and the heavenly host feel better through their suffering.



The Shema Yisrael is Judaism's greatest contribution to theology. And of course that One God is the One Truth.



You realize that you just said God lies. To me, that is the only blasphemy. Even (our internal) Devil only tells one lie--"Your vanity is justified".

From the wicked - Jesus spoke in parables so that only those with eyes would see and those with ears would hear.

Now you're over-thinking things in your zeal to promote your blind faith. Using a fiction to tell a Truth is not a lie since it's message is the Truth and the story is understood to be a fiction for that purpose--to promote understanding, not the deception behind a lie. A lie directs its listeners away from Truth. Genesis is a parable that became a lie when it was made to be literal

It is written: If our gospel (truth) be hidden ( obscured from sight ) it is hidden from them which are lost. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ who is the image of God, should shine upon them.
- 2 Corinthian 4:3, 4

Paul of Tarsus. Tarsus=six hundred, threescore and six, the number of the Beast...the Roman HQ of Mithraism and it's Apostle. "Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear."

When you have time, please let me know why you are adding up Tarsus for the 3 sixs. Henry Kissingers name adds up to 666 too. So what? - Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jeremiah
I can tell you are in deep thought today, P.T. Your overthinking again. People with a high IQ have a propensity for it I find.
Well then, I guess I don't have anything to worry about. Fortunately, reason comes off as inspiring the appearance of intelligence, when mostly what it is is just sweat, experience and dedication. Average intelligence is all that's required and all I can offer.

I believe your above average, P.T. Your humility is noted though.

Quote:
Let me offer you this truth. What is faith but blind?
I use a ship analogy, paraphrasing a true genius (Einstein) in the process: Reason is (or should be) at the controls, and faith is the motivation/engine. Faith without reason is blind and runs off course. Reason without faith is dead in the water.

Einstein is one of my favorites. Einstein is the one who said imagination is greater than knowledge. Where is the reason behind imagination? If a thought comes to you did it come "from you"? Not necessarily. Much of what is credited to man has come from God, P.T. God is all the reason you need. Does the clay tell the potter what to make of it? Still I will give you some reasons behind faith so you will not doubt the veracity of it to operate in the realm of the supernatural.. read on......


Quote:
True faith, I am speaking of. You cannot see faith with the natural eyes yet faith is. You cannot understand what causes faith to manifest itself yet you must accept faith for what it is - Faith.
But faith can and must be guided. Every revealed religion in the world is driven by blind faith. Is any one of them right? No, none.

Wrong. God counted Abrahams faith as righteousness. Moses had faith to raise his rod and the red sea parted, Abraham had faith to obey God and put his own son on the altar, Noah had faith to build an Ark even though it had never rained before.. What did these men have in common? A relationship with God. The one we agree is the One True God. Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is One! Again, P.T. Faith is guided by God. God is at the helm of this ship. God transcends "reason".. you no more need "reason" as you define it - than you would oars in a sailboat once the sail goes up and the wind begins to blow......this is not about a religion, not a man or a woman, P.T. This is about God. A relationship with God. Ok?


Quote:
Unbelievers demonstrate faith every day.
True, see above.
I did. Who is the author of Faith and the Finisher of Faith? God.


Quote:
Everytime they get on an airplane and expect to be lifted into the air and taken to their destination - that is faith - they do not understand how that plane lifts off the ground yet they trust it will fly rather than to fall of into the sea at the end of the runway! You sit down in a chair and have faith it will be capable of holding you up.
Yes, courage supported by reason. Even those who aren't familiar with the science, know that flight is explained by science, and if they took a few minutes, they could understand it. Fear of flight isn't the fear derived from ignorance of scientific forces that are proven trillions of times every day, it's the fear of human error in its operation.

If you took a couple of minutes, P.T. you could understand it. Not everyone can. For the rest of us it is an act of faith. Plain and simple. Let's try this example:

If you tell me to pick you up from the airport on Sunday at 1:00 p.m. - you do not know me.. you hope I will keep my word but perhaps I will not - so far as you know.... if you call your parents and say pick me up from the airport on Sunday at 1:00 p.m. - you know they will be there. That is faith. Faith is based on trust. Faith is based on relationship. Faith is based on many things, P.T. and therein Faith is not without reason. Do you trust your parents? Yes? You have faith in them. Do you have an abiding relationship, deep love for your parents? Yes? You have faith in them. You see how easily defined this matter of reason & faith is? Very elementary. A child can do it. So can you.

Faith is based on relationship. The greater the relationship? The greater the Faith.


Quote:
How can you believe Jesus is the Son of God if not by faith?
You can't, except by blind, unreasoned faith.

Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, P.T. Jesus is the Word. John 1:1


Quote:
Yet it is truth.
So you say that you, your family, your religion, Paul, Moses say. The only Truth I see is manufactured or misinterpreted hear-say passed down over thousands of years.

And we do not accept Moses because...................? What exactly is your issue with Moses? Did I miss something before?


Quote:
How can you believe the word of God when it says the wicked shall be turned into hell and all the nations that forget God.
Because I can't believe God would want to spend eternity knowing Hell exists--ostensibly to make God and the heavenly host feel better through their suffering.

Where did you think God was going to send Satan? He is an eternal being -angels do not die - neither do spirits for that matter - he had to go somewhere, P.T. Think about it. Hell was not created for human beings. Hell was created for Satan and the angels who rebelled with him. Suppose you are Einstein and something you have created becomes a diabolical weapon that could destroy the earth. Would you not contain it in a place that would not bring harm to the rest of the earth out of your love for humanity? Of course you would.. you are not looking at this from Gods perspective but rather your own... God takes no pleasure in the death of those who have chosen to serve Satan rather than Him.. God takes no pleasure in the death of any who have rejected his Son because he knows full well the wrath Satan will be inflicting eternally on such people. That is why he desires to wake them up while there is still life in them and they can repent....


Quote:
Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is One.
The Shema Yisrael is Judaism's greatest contribution to theology. And of course that One God is the One Truth.

Of course the G-d of Israel is the One Truth.
Is there any other God? No. I know not any.


Quote:
God intentionally obscured the truth for His own purposes.
You realize that you just said God lies. To me, that is the only blasphemy. Even (our internal) Devil only tells one lie--"Your vanity is justified".

Obscurity is not a lie! Did Joseph lie when he hid his own identity from his brothers? Did he not reveal it later on? Of course he did and Jesus shall reveal himself to his own brethren in due time as well. Does this now make Christ a liar? Because for a season he allowed himself hidden so that the Gentiles might be grafted into Abrahams family? Does God not have the right to do what he will concerning his own creation? Yes. God has every right. He is God.


Quote:
From the wicked - Jesus spoke in parables so that only those with eyes would see and those with ears would hear.
Now you're over-thinking things in your zeal to promote your blind faith. Using a fiction to tell a Truth is not a lie since it's message is the Truth and the story is understood to be a fiction for that purpose--to promote understanding, not the deception behind a lie. A lie directs its listeners away from Truth. Genesis is a parable that became a lie when it was made to be literal

Fiction? The parables were not fiction, he was speaking truth in a way that those who were coming to him would understand it while those who were not would not... You have a wrong understanding of the parables Jesus spoke, P.T. Genesis is the story of creation. Will you now accuse God of being a liar? No. God desires man to take His Word literally. Do you not desire yourself to be taken literally? It is written: Let the Word of God be true and every man be found a liar ( who denies it ). Every word of it is true. Every word, P.T.. Believe it.


Quote:
It is written: If our gospel (truth) be hidden ( obscured from sight ) it is hidden from them which are lost. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ who is the image of God, should shine upon them.
- 2 Corinthian 4:3, 4
Paul of Tarsus. Tarsus=six hundred, threescore and six, the number of the Beast...the Roman HQ of Mithraism and it's Apostle. "Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear."

Would you care to expound on that one? Thank you in advance for your response. This one is beyond me as Paul is not from Rome. The first church was not from Rome. The first believers did not come out of Rome. The first believers were Jewish. Therein I fail to see the connection between Paul & Rome HQ's. Thanks, P.T. Interesting discussion.

Question back to you on Tarsus - if you have the answer, P.T.