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Not going to work, an interesting dichotomy.

Rigby5

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You have no idea what you're talking about. It had nothing to do with China, it had to do with the American consumers. Business conducts itself based on consumer demand. By the late 70s, unions got so strong that the price of items were ridiculous. We dropped our solidarity with unions and American workers for less expensive products. With the unions and their strength from government, industry had no choice but to leave the state or country to produce the products Americans wanted. That's how Walmart's started to pop up everywhere.

Both arguments sound reasonable, except that wages are not even 30% of the cost of goods, and Chinese goods require adding on all that shipping cost.
So then I have to agree with Donald H, that is was US corporate greed and stupidity.
And by stupidity I mean that once the Chinese are hired to start making US goods, very quickly they don't need the original US company any more, and they will steal the technology and cut out the US companies entirely.
 

Rigby5

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Are u stupid? No vaccine is 100% effective. Fearing catching covid from people too irrational or brainwashed or stupid to get vaccinated is not irrational.

But that's their choice as in being afraid of them. Why are you against people exercising free will? If people choose to not work .... it's their right.

Except the vaccines seem to only reduce deaths, not infection or transmission rates, so then the only people who should be concerned are just the individual and their survival rate.
There is zero reason to want anyone else to get vaxxed.
 

JohnDB

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This is a video showing what a fresh meat packing plant is like...then it cuts away to your grocery store chain central butcher shop that cuts meat for all of its stores....

Now all of these employers have to somehow keep six feet (2 meter) spacing of their employees and operate at full production? Ain't happening.

You will see them wearing masks already for good reasons...
Now with a global pandemic...and these low wage jobs...
 

Faun

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Not really because all your money will go to pay for those that are out of work. See that is the problem with lefties. They never think things through.
It's cute to see people as deranged as you to think the government will collect 100% of peoples' income.

:itsok:
 

JGalt

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But the minimum wage of $7.25 is from 2009, and the prices of everything have doubled since then.
So how can workers afford rent, food, gas, etc., if their wages are not increased proportionally to everything else?

Look for a better job? Go to night school and get a degree? Not sure about that $7.25 number. Most companies around here are starting people about around $15/hr entry-level, because they're having trouble getting people to apply.
 

Donald H

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American business people aren't 'Capitalists', they're 'Opportunists'.
Yes, that's quite true and they reveal that when they can't accept a union.
While they tout the glories of capitalist principles, they hate those principles when those principles don't favor themselves.

Mainly they don't understand that capitalism requires a healthy blend of socialism to function properly and so they are intent on eliminating the little bit of social policy remaining in America.
 

JGalt

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Not true.
Social Security has plenty of assets.
It is not supposed to make a profit, so is always supposed be slightly in debt by design.
The Boomer bubble will be over by 2040, so SS will again have a surplus by then.
All it means is that either SS will need a slight tax subsidy, or a slight reduction in pay outs.

There is no imaginary funds box for SS, that holds the funds working people paid in all their lives. That was cleaned out long ago, and SS is being funded by either those prople who are still working and paying in, or fiat currency cranked out by the FED's printers. If that isn't "bankrupt", I don't know what is.
 

JGalt

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Yes they are.
The main problem is renting is slavery to a degree, and it is banks and slum lords who force that.

No idea. I'm paying a mortgage on my own home.
 

danielpalos

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This is a video showing what a fresh meat packing plant is like...then it cuts away to your grocery store chain central butcher shop that cuts meat for all of its stores....

Now all of these employers have to somehow keep six feet (2 meter) spacing of their employees and operate at full production? Ain't happening.

You will see them wearing masks already for good reasons...
Now with a global pandemic...and these low wage jobs...
What about better masks at lower cost?
 

Ray From Cleveland

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Both arguments sound reasonable, except that wages are not even 30% of the cost of goods, and Chinese goods require adding on all that shipping cost.
So then I have to agree with Donald H, that is was US corporate greed and stupidity.
And by stupidity I mean that once the Chinese are hired to start making US goods, very quickly they don't need the original US company any more, and they will steal the technology and cut out the US companies entirely.

That may be opinion but I'll go with personal experience.

One of our customers manufactured crates; crates the size of suit cases to crates the size of a 53' trailer. I delivered these crates to companies that were moving out of state or out of country to escape the unions. This was before we had right-to-choose states.

It wasn't infrequent I got to talk to the manager or owners of these companies. Some of them nearly teared up when talking about the move. It's the very last thing they wanted to do. As one owner put it, I have two choices: move out of the country, or close up and join my former employees in the unemployment line.

Another talked about how he fought in war for this country. Now he said, I'm being forced to move my business and leave my home where I raised my family. At least in war you had something to fight with. Outside, your only choice is capitulate.

I think people watch too many fucken movies and think movies are reality. That's not to say others do not move for the last dime they can make, but I'm sure it's few and far between.
 

Ray From Cleveland

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American business people aren't 'Capitalists', they're 'Opportunists'.

Actually they're both. Have you ever met a capitalist that wasn't an opportunist? I don't even think one could exist.
 

Ray From Cleveland

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We keep well up on ALL paper goods because I expect it --- and I DID read that paper towels are under pressure this week.

Seriously, I think these shortages are going to get worse and worse: they sprang up so fast! And gas prices, and the whole menu of discontent. We are keeping topped up on pretty much everything. And everyone blaming Biden ------ maybe it was just as well Trump took a term off. Though I don't think it would have been nearly as bad with Trump, he wouldn't have done the mandates and mask craziness.

The paper shortage was very inconvenient, but not the end of the world. If it would happen now, it would be the end of the world. I'm recovering from colon surgery. I'm on that toilet 12 to 15 times a day (and all night).

I only have to make it 3 years with no shortage as the doctors gave me about 2.5 years to live if I go through chemo. After that you're all on your own.
 

JohnDB

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What about better masks at lower cost?
Both whole places are essentially a refrigerator. Air change outs aren't exactly going to happen and masks aren't perfect. Especially during an 8 hour day.
 

Ray From Cleveland

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I feel very confident saying that no such collective agreement exists that doesn't include the employer's right to terminate a worker for cause.

And now you've talked yourself into a corner from which you have to find one.
Real evidence Ray, not just is not, is not.

Mine is not opinion, mine is experience which you have zero of in my country. But I have time for one more story.

I went to make a pickup and ran inside to open the door and let the shipper know I was there. He was pissed and said "God Damn it! You had to come now!" I said sorry, we come when you call us!

He apologized and explained his anger. He said he can't get orders ready because nearly every time he starts, some truck driver comes in that he has to load. He jumped on the tow motor and started to load me. When he was backing out of the trailer, I asked "what happened to that help they gave you?" He said the help is worthless because the guy is scared to drive a tow motor. I said wait a minute, they sent you a guy who can't use a tow motor? What good is he? Why don't you tell the company he can't do the job? He said the company would just tell him the union forced them to give him the job. So then I said, then tell the union the guy can't do the job!

He turned off the tow motor, gave a huge sigh and waited a few seconds to gather his thoughts. He said Ray, If I drove this tow motor right through the front of your trailer, I would still have my job because of the union. But if I approached our union and told them a union man can't do his job, my ass will get tossed out on the street in five seconds flat. He started his tow motor and continued to finish loading my truck.
 

Donald H

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So then I have to agree with Donald H, that is was US corporate greed and stupidity.
Corporate greed according to the capitalist system that promotes the very thing! But you've never heard me make it out as stupidity!
And by stupidity I mean that once the Chinese are hired to start making US goods, very quickly they don't need the original US company any more, and they will steal the technology and cut out the US companies entirely.
No, quite wrong on two counts. The practice has been going on for over 20 years and the Chinese still have no intention of taking over US companies.

And the Chinese haven't stolen the US technology, they were gladly offered that technology by the US companies in exchange for the privilege of operating in China and being granted open access to the US marketplace.

Walmarts were created in every corner of America for the very purpose of that access being granted to China.

The latest word we can add to that story is that China took that technology and bettered it. They're working on 6G technology now while their competitors are still trying to catch up to Huawei's 5G!

Isn't unrestrained capitalism a wonderful thing!
 

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