Norman Finkelstein on BDS

[P F Tinmore]

What is Israel? Do you have a map that does not use the armistice lines that the UN specifically stated were not to be political or territorial boundaries?

Trying to be clever... I don't really care for those laws or political definitions, at least where I'm coming from.

So I ask You again for the 4th time:
Do You want Israel gone?

My question was: Is Israel a legitimate state? Y'all keep ducking that question.

This question is ridiculous in my view.
I've already told You that I have close to no understanding in law or legalize.

So let me answer this in a realistic manner:

Of course it's a legitimate state, working one. It's a leading country in technology and entrepreneurship. Its' feet are strong on the ground.

Now compared to that, in reality there's a serious doubt to whether this 'international law' is something of reality, or just a piece of paper written for some clever idealists to weave it in their silly arguments.

Will You keep ducking my question?

It is understandable that Israel and its supporters do not like international law. That is why you people always dance around the issues.

It's not about liking, it's about reality on the ground.

While I answered Your question, You keep ducking the same question Finkelstein was talking about in the OP.
And it's because he knows well what Your (BDS) real goal is.

You're just not brave enough to be straight and honest about it.

 

[rylah]

Lost for words?

 

[rylah]

Is there anyone here who's not afraid to answer Finkelstein's question honestly?

 

[Shusha]

Its interesting to watch. On the one hand, if BDSers really believe that Israel should be destroyed, dissolved, or whatever why don't they just say so? If they believe they have the moral high ground, why would they not just admit it?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Lost for words?

It is difficult to respond to deflection.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Its interesting to watch. On the one hand, if BDSers really believe that Israel should be destroyed, dissolved, or whatever why don't they just say so? If they believe they have the moral high ground, why would they not just admit it?

Israel can stay. It just needs to change policy.

 

[rylah]

Its interesting to watch. On the one hand, if BDSers really believe that Israel should be destroyed, dissolved, or whatever why don't they just say so? If they believe they have the moral high ground, why would they not just admit it?

Israel can stay. It just needs to change policy.

please explain further, how can Israel stay and BDS reach its' goals?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Its interesting to watch. On the one hand, if BDSers really believe that Israel should be destroyed, dissolved, or whatever why don't they just say so? If they believe they have the moral high ground, why would they not just admit it?

Israel can stay. It just needs to change policy.

please explain further, how can Israel stay and BDS reach its' goals?

Equal rights for Palestinians and compliance with international law.

 

[rylah]

Its interesting to watch. On the one hand, if BDSers really believe that Israel should be destroyed, dissolved, or whatever why don't they just say so? If they believe they have the moral high ground, why would they not just admit it?

Israel can stay. It just needs to change policy.

please explain further, how can Israel stay and BDS reach its' goals?

Equal rights for Palestinians and compliance with international law.

I don't know what that means.
I haven't seen equal rights in any country, neither any country complying with the ever changing 'international law'. There's no such animal.

So what are Your actual goals? 6 million refugees pour into Israel?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Its interesting to watch. On the one hand, if BDSers really believe that Israel should be destroyed, dissolved, or whatever why don't they just say so? If they believe they have the moral high ground, why would they not just admit it?

Israel can stay. It just needs to change policy.

please explain further, how can Israel stay and BDS reach its' goals?

Equal rights for Palestinians and compliance with international law.

I don't know what that means.
I haven't seen equal rights in any country, neither any country complying with the ever changing 'international law'. There's no such animal.

So what are Your actual goals? 6 million refugees pour into Israel?

Israel has created quite a mess for itself.

 

[rylah]

Its interesting to watch. On the one hand, if BDSers really believe that Israel should be destroyed, dissolved, or whatever why don't they just say so? If they believe they have the moral high ground, why would they not just admit it?

Israel can stay. It just needs to change policy.

please explain further, how can Israel stay and BDS reach its' goals?

Equal rights for Palestinians and compliance with international law.

I don't know what that means.
I haven't seen equal rights in any country, neither any country complying with the ever changing 'international law'. There's no such animal.

So what are Your actual goals? 6 million refugees pour into Israel?

Israel has created quite a mess for itself.

Judging by the situation in the ME, Israel gets by better than anyone.

The question of legitimacy is much more relevant to states like Syria, Gaza and the wanna be PA.

 

[montelatici]

Israel can stay. It just needs to change policy.

please explain further, how can Israel stay and BDS reach its' goals?

Equal rights for Palestinians and compliance with international law.

I don't know what that means.
I haven't seen equal rights in any country, neither any country complying with the ever changing 'international law'. There's no such animal.

So what are Your actual goals? 6 million refugees pour into Israel?

Israel has created quite a mess for itself.

Judging by the situation in the ME, Israel gets by better than anyone.

The question of legitimacy is much more relevant to states like Syria, Gaza and the wanna be PA.

Israel has had a tag team of super power support starting in1920. Britain the world's colonial imperial power suppressed the native people through force of arms through 1948 and then the U.S. took over insuring that Israel would have military and financial superiority over any combination of countries in the area.

 

[rylah]

please explain further, how can Israel stay and BDS reach its' goals?

Equal rights for Palestinians and compliance with international law.

I don't know what that means.
I haven't seen equal rights in any country, neither any country complying with the ever changing 'international law'. There's no such animal.

So what are Your actual goals? 6 million refugees pour into Israel?

Israel has created quite a mess for itself.

Judging by the situation in the ME, Israel gets by better than anyone.

The question of legitimacy is much more relevant to states like Syria, Gaza and the wanna be PA.

Israel has had a tag team of super power support starting in1920. Britain the world's colonial imperial power suppressed the native people through force of arms through 1948 and then the U.S. took over insuring that Israel would have military and financial superiority over any combination of countries in the area.

The British gave away more than 70% of what was promised to the Jews to Arabs. Limited Jewish immigration while keeping a blind eye on the Arab immigration.
The British couldn't clearly decide, therefore couldn't deliver either side.

The Palestinians on the other hand have had their support from the Soviets and the oil rich Arab League.

 

[rylah]

All these deflections still don't change the fact that Finkelstein was spot on
about the real goals of BDS.

How can there be Israel if BDS gets what they aim for?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel can stay. It just needs to change policy.

please explain further, how can Israel stay and BDS reach its' goals?

Equal rights for Palestinians and compliance with international law.

I don't know what that means.
I haven't seen equal rights in any country, neither any country complying with the ever changing 'international law'. There's no such animal.

So what are Your actual goals? 6 million refugees pour into Israel?

Israel has created quite a mess for itself.

Judging by the situation in the ME, Israel gets by better than anyone.

The question of legitimacy is much more relevant to states like Syria, Gaza and the wanna be PA.

Nice deflection.

 

[P F Tinmore]

All these deflections still don't change the fact that Finkelstein was spot on
about the real goals of BDS.

How can there be Israel if BDS gets what they aim for?

Indeed, Israel has created big problems for itself.

 

[Hollie]

All these deflections still don't change the fact that Finkelstein was spot on
about the real goals of BDS.

How can there be Israel if BDS gets what they aim for?

Indeed, Israel has created big problems for itself.

Indeed, a modern, educated society with a thriving, high-tech economy.

Indeed, such big problems.

 

[rylah]

All these deflections still don't change the fact that Finkelstein was spot on
about the real goals of BDS.

How can there be Israel if BDS gets what they aim for?

Indeed, Israel has created big problems for itself.

BDS a big problem?
We'll see.
Actually I'm quiet sure it has been infiltrated by the right people to push the right buttons of the wrong people.

Meanwhile do Palestinians really support BDS?

I mean, let's talk about the interview.

 

[montelatici]

Equal rights for Palestinians and compliance with international law.

I don't know what that means.
I haven't seen equal rights in any country, neither any country complying with the ever changing 'international law'. There's no such animal.

So what are Your actual goals? 6 million refugees pour into Israel?

Israel has created quite a mess for itself.

Judging by the situation in the ME, Israel gets by better than anyone.

The question of legitimacy is much more relevant to states like Syria, Gaza and the wanna be PA.

Israel has had a tag team of super power support starting in1920. Britain the world's colonial imperial power suppressed the native people through force of arms through 1948 and then the U.S. took over insuring that Israel would have military and financial superiority over any combination of countries in the area.

The British gave away more than 70% of what was promised to the Jews to Arabs. Limited Jewish immigration while keeping a blind eye on the Arab immigration.
The British couldn't clearly decide, therefore couldn't deliver either side.

The Palestinians on the other hand have had their support from the Soviets and the oil rich Arab League.

Gave away? They took land from the native population and gave it to fellow European colonists. There was no Arab immigration to Palestine. Muslim and Christian Palestinians immigrated to Egypt to take jobs associated with the larger British presence there and the activities of the Suez Canal. Arafat's Palestinian father immigrated to Egypt, that's why rafat was born there.

"UNITED
NATIONS
A

• 
  General Assembly

A/364
3 September 1947
OFFICIAL RECORDS OF THE SECOND SESSION OF
THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY


SUPPLEMENT No. 11



UNITED NATIONS
SPECIAL COMMITTEE
ON PALESTINE



REPORT TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY

VOLUME 1





Lake Success
New York
1947


(b) IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths. "

https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/07175DE9FA2DE563852568D3006E10F3

 

[Hollie]

I don't know what that means.
I haven't seen equal rights in any country, neither any country complying with the ever changing 'international law'. There's no such animal.

So what are Your actual goals? 6 million refugees pour into Israel?

Israel has created quite a mess for itself.

Judging by the situation in the ME, Israel gets by better than anyone.

The question of legitimacy is much more relevant to states like Syria, Gaza and the wanna be PA.

Israel has had a tag team of super power support starting in1920. Britain the world's colonial imperial power suppressed the native people through force of arms through 1948 and then the U.S. took over insuring that Israel would have military and financial superiority over any combination of countries in the area.

The British gave away more than 70% of what was promised to the Jews to Arabs. Limited Jewish immigration while keeping a blind eye on the Arab immigration.
The British couldn't clearly decide, therefore couldn't deliver either side.

The Palestinians on the other hand have had their support from the Soviets and the oil rich Arab League.

Gave away? They took land from the native population and gave it to fellow European colonists. There was no Arab immigration to Palestine. Muslim and Christian Palestinians immigrated to Egypt to take jobs associated with the larger British presence there and the activities of the Suez Canal. Arafat's Palestinian father immigrated to Egypt, that's why rafat was born there.

"UNITED
NATIONS
A

• 
  General Assembly

A/364
3 September 1947
OFFICIAL RECORDS OF THE SECOND SESSION OF
THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY


SUPPLEMENT No. 11



UNITED NATIONS
SPECIAL COMMITTEE
ON PALESTINE



REPORT TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY

VOLUME 1





Lake Success
New York
1947


(b) IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths. "

A/364 of 3 September 1947

On the other hand:

The Arabs in Palestine

A Population Boom
As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.

This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.

The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.