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Nobody doubts the M4 is an assault weapon. Are there any material differences between an M4 and an AR15?

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BULLDOG

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The M4 is the main rifle used by the US military, and no one could question that it is an assault rifle. The M4 is capable of full automatic fire, and 3 round burst, and the AR15 is not. Of course, it would be illegal, but the AR15 can easily be converted to allow those types of fire. Other than that difference, what makes an M4 an assault weapon, and an AR15 not?
.

You missed the boat on all this garbage.

You can fight about the M4 and the AR-15 until the cows come home.
You will never succeed with a gun control effort that attempts to identify firearms by names, types, or parts.
Adaptation an innovation always trumps the effort ... And they should have learned that with past Assault Weapons Ban.

The only way you can stop that is if you ban ... Shoots a bullet ... Which isn't going to happen ... :thup:

You are really just pissing in the wind and arguing about the irrelevant, no matter what side of the argument you are on.
You can get a custom made semi-automatic weapon that fires anywhere from a .223 to a 7.62 round for $1000.
It doesn't matter what the fuck they call it, or what it looks like.

.
Please point out where I brought up gun control, or any of the other things you mentioned. I asked simple question. You aren't obligated to come up with an answer if you don't know.
 

westwall

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I'm not seeing your point.

What is the material difference between this military issue M24 sniper rifle...

View attachment 489683

...and this extremely popular Remington 700 deer rifle...?


View attachment 489684

You should start a thread if you are looking for that answer. This thread is about the M4 and the AR15.
Figure it out, Einstein

That is the only attempt at an answer in the entire thread.
1. Barrel - The M4 has a shorter barrel, and is shaped to receive a grenade launcher.
2 Ammo. - The Ar15 can be chambered for several different shells, but the M4 is only capable of 5.56.
3 Automation - Until 1986, both rifles were legally capable of full automatic fire, but the AR15 was modified in 1986. Conversion back to auto fire is neither hard or expensive, but is illegal. ------------this was noted in the OP.
4 manufacturer
5. legality. This has been discussed, but is not a material difference in the guns, or the way they work. other than the already mentioned full auto capability.
6 Category. This is how they are referred to on paper, and has nothing to do with material differences between the rifles, other than the auto capability.

You did point out that the barrel is shaped a little different, but the purpose of that was to attach grenade launcher. Hardly a material difference in the accuracy, speed, or capability of long term continuous use. You got anything else to add to your list? The rest of the differences in your link are really just distinctions without any real differences.


Yeah...other rifles are also convertible to full automatic fire....

See the North Hollywood shootout where the rifles were converted to fully automatic fire...yet, in the shootout...the two robbers, firing fully automatic at the police didn't manage to kill anyone.....both, however, were killed by police using semi-automatic weapons...

So again, it isn't the weapon, it is the target location...in the North Hollywood shootout, the people they shot at were in the open, not in a building, and were behind cover.....so no one was killed by the fully automatic rifle fire.....however, again, both perps, even with their fully automatic rifles, were killed by police with semi-automatic weapons....

It isn't the weapon, it is the target location that makes all the difference....

Case in point...the 1984 FBI shooting, the two criminals had a mini-14 rifle, a semi-automatic rifle, and a pump action shotgun.....they managed to kill 2 FBI agents and wounded 5 others......

Again, it isn't the weapon, it is the target location.....in this case, the shooters were good shots.......the FBI weren't so good...

I am curious as to your point...where you would like to go with this....
The point is to find the material differences between the two rifles. In this thread I have learned the M4 has a shorter barrel, and is shaped so a grenade launcher can attach to it. Other than the auto capability, that is the only difference anybody has been able to mention.
well and the whole auto fire thing that you keep ignoring
I's not hard or expensive to convert an AR15 to full auto capability. It's illegal as hell, and you should be ready to spend a lot of time in prison, but it's not that hard to do.
If you have a file, pretty much any double action gun can be made full auto. The trouble is you can't stop it after you pull the trigger. AR's are simple to convert if you have the selector.





No, they aren't. As someone who actually HAS, legally converted an AR-15 into a M-16 it is actually quite easy if you have a full machine shop. Quite the opposite if you don't. And you need much more than just the selector lever, you need a disconnector, you need to drill the hole for the safety sear in EXACTLY the right position, if you're off by more than a couple of thousandths you're SOL. You have to change the bolt carrier, you have to change the firing pin, and, if you want it to work well, you'll need to upgrade the buffer, and buffer spring.

So, no. If you don't have access to a machine shop, it ain't easy.
Nothing is easy without the proper tools, I wasn't suggesting it could be converted with a hammer and a screwdriver. SMH.





You implied that all you needed was the selector lever. You don't know anything about AR's if that is your level of knowledge.
How far do you want to nit pick this ridiculous shit? I didn't see any prints or dimensions with your post either. C'mon man, the thread is stupid.





I agree the thread is stupid, but spreading misinformation about AR's is likewise STUPID. So knock it off. There are MANY people here who know what we are talking about, we get pissed off when some idiot, of whatever political persuasion comes here and spreads misinformation.
 

westwall

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The M4 is the main rifle used by the US military, and no one could question that it is an assault rifle. The M4 is capable of full automatic fire, and 3 round burst, and the AR15 is not. Of course, it would be illegal, but the AR15 can easily be converted to allow those types of fire. Other than that difference, what makes an M4 an assault weapon, and an AR15 not?
.

You missed the boat on all this garbage.

You can fight about the M4 and the AR-15 until the cows come home.
You will never succeed with a gun control effort that attempts to identify firearms by names, types, or parts.
Adaptation an innovation always trumps the effort ... And they should have learned that with past Assault Weapons Ban.

The only way you can stop that is if you ban ... Shoots a bullet ... Which isn't going to happen ... :thup:

You are really just pissing in the wind and arguing about the irrelevant, no matter what side of the argument you are on.
You can get a custom made semi-automatic weapon that fires anywhere from a .223 to a 7.62 round for $1000.
It doesn't matter what the fuck they call it, or what it looks like.

.
Please point out where I brought up gun control, or any of the other things you mentioned. I asked simple question. You aren't obligated to come up with an answer if you don't know.





Like I said, your whole premise is to attack the AR platform which is a direct violation of the 2nd Amendment. You might be stupid (and you are), but we aren't.
 

HereWeGoAgain

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The M4 is the main rifle used by the US military, and no one could question that it is an assault rifle. The M4 is capable of full automatic fire, and 3 round burst, and the AR15 is not. Of course, it would be illegal, but the AR15 can easily be converted to allow those types of fire. Other than that difference, what makes an M4 an assault weapon, and an AR15 not?

First of all the M4 comes with three round burst and single shot.
The M4a1 comes with single shot and full auto.
At least do a little research before posting.
 

Concerned American

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I'm not seeing your point.

What is the material difference between this military issue M24 sniper rifle...

View attachment 489683

...and this extremely popular Remington 700 deer rifle...?


View attachment 489684

You should start a thread if you are looking for that answer. This thread is about the M4 and the AR15.
Figure it out, Einstein

That is the only attempt at an answer in the entire thread.
1. Barrel - The M4 has a shorter barrel, and is shaped to receive a grenade launcher.
2 Ammo. - The Ar15 can be chambered for several different shells, but the M4 is only capable of 5.56.
3 Automation - Until 1986, both rifles were legally capable of full automatic fire, but the AR15 was modified in 1986. Conversion back to auto fire is neither hard or expensive, but is illegal. ------------this was noted in the OP.
4 manufacturer
5. legality. This has been discussed, but is not a material difference in the guns, or the way they work. other than the already mentioned full auto capability.
6 Category. This is how they are referred to on paper, and has nothing to do with material differences between the rifles, other than the auto capability.

You did point out that the barrel is shaped a little different, but the purpose of that was to attach grenade launcher. Hardly a material difference in the accuracy, speed, or capability of long term continuous use. You got anything else to add to your list? The rest of the differences in your link are really just distinctions without any real differences.


Yeah...other rifles are also convertible to full automatic fire....

See the North Hollywood shootout where the rifles were converted to fully automatic fire...yet, in the shootout...the two robbers, firing fully automatic at the police didn't manage to kill anyone.....both, however, were killed by police using semi-automatic weapons...

So again, it isn't the weapon, it is the target location...in the North Hollywood shootout, the people they shot at were in the open, not in a building, and were behind cover.....so no one was killed by the fully automatic rifle fire.....however, again, both perps, even with their fully automatic rifles, were killed by police with semi-automatic weapons....

It isn't the weapon, it is the target location that makes all the difference....

Case in point...the 1984 FBI shooting, the two criminals had a mini-14 rifle, a semi-automatic rifle, and a pump action shotgun.....they managed to kill 2 FBI agents and wounded 5 others......

Again, it isn't the weapon, it is the target location.....in this case, the shooters were good shots.......the FBI weren't so good...

I am curious as to your point...where you would like to go with this....
The point is to find the material differences between the two rifles. In this thread I have learned the M4 has a shorter barrel, and is shaped so a grenade launcher can attach to it. Other than the auto capability, that is the only difference anybody has been able to mention.
well and the whole auto fire thing that you keep ignoring
I's not hard or expensive to convert an AR15 to full auto capability. It's illegal as hell, and you should be ready to spend a lot of time in prison, but it's not that hard to do.
If you have a file, pretty much any double action gun can be made full auto. The trouble is you can't stop it after you pull the trigger. AR's are simple to convert if you have the selector.





No, they aren't. As someone who actually HAS, legally converted an AR-15 into a M-16 it is actually quite easy if you have a full machine shop. Quite the opposite if you don't. And you need much more than just the selector lever, you need a disconnector, you need to drill the hole for the safety sear in EXACTLY the right position, if you're off by more than a couple of thousandths you're SOL. You have to change the bolt carrier, you have to change the firing pin, and, if you want it to work well, you'll need to upgrade the buffer, and buffer spring.

So, no. If you don't have access to a machine shop, it ain't easy.
Nothing is easy without the proper tools, I wasn't suggesting it could be converted with a hammer and a screwdriver. SMH.





You implied that all you needed was the selector lever. You don't know anything about AR's if that is your level of knowledge.
How far do you want to nit pick this ridiculous shit? I didn't see any prints or dimensions with your post either. C'mon man, the thread is stupid.





I agree the thread is stupid, but spreading misinformation about AR's is likewise STUPID. So knock it off. There are MANY people here who know what we are talking about, we get pissed off when some idiot, of whatever political persuasion comes here and spreads misinformation.
There was no misinformation spread. It is not difficult to convert. Nor is it all that difficult to obtain and M-16. It is also not illegal to own one if you have an FFL.
 

BlackSand

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Please point out where I brought up gun control, or any of the other things you mentioned. I asked simple question. You aren't obligated to come up with an answer if you don't know.
.

The question is irrelevant in any other context ... Because it doesn't make a damn bit difference what identifier you want to use.
It doesn't matter if you call it a M4, AR-15, or Micky's Boar Destroyer 1006.

It's quite possible that would go a long ways towards answering your retarded question, and whatever might have anything to do with it ... :thup:
However you may want to identify a firearm by what exists, is irrelevant to whatever someone can develop to do the same thing.

.
 
Last edited:
OP
BULLDOG

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I'm not seeing your point.

What is the material difference between this military issue M24 sniper rifle...

View attachment 489683

...and this extremely popular Remington 700 deer rifle...?


View attachment 489684

You should start a thread if you are looking for that answer. This thread is about the M4 and the AR15.
Figure it out, Einstein

That is the only attempt at an answer in the entire thread.
1. Barrel - The M4 has a shorter barrel, and is shaped to receive a grenade launcher.
2 Ammo. - The Ar15 can be chambered for several different shells, but the M4 is only capable of 5.56.
3 Automation - Until 1986, both rifles were legally capable of full automatic fire, but the AR15 was modified in 1986. Conversion back to auto fire is neither hard or expensive, but is illegal. ------------this was noted in the OP.
4 manufacturer
5. legality. This has been discussed, but is not a material difference in the guns, or the way they work. other than the already mentioned full auto capability.
6 Category. This is how they are referred to on paper, and has nothing to do with material differences between the rifles, other than the auto capability.

You did point out that the barrel is shaped a little different, but the purpose of that was to attach grenade launcher. Hardly a material difference in the accuracy, speed, or capability of long term continuous use. You got anything else to add to your list? The rest of the differences in your link are really just distinctions without any real differences.


Yeah...other rifles are also convertible to full automatic fire....

See the North Hollywood shootout where the rifles were converted to fully automatic fire...yet, in the shootout...the two robbers, firing fully automatic at the police didn't manage to kill anyone.....both, however, were killed by police using semi-automatic weapons...

So again, it isn't the weapon, it is the target location...in the North Hollywood shootout, the people they shot at were in the open, not in a building, and were behind cover.....so no one was killed by the fully automatic rifle fire.....however, again, both perps, even with their fully automatic rifles, were killed by police with semi-automatic weapons....

It isn't the weapon, it is the target location that makes all the difference....

Case in point...the 1984 FBI shooting, the two criminals had a mini-14 rifle, a semi-automatic rifle, and a pump action shotgun.....they managed to kill 2 FBI agents and wounded 5 others......

Again, it isn't the weapon, it is the target location.....in this case, the shooters were good shots.......the FBI weren't so good...

I am curious as to your point...where you would like to go with this....
The point is to find the material differences between the two rifles. In this thread I have learned the M4 has a shorter barrel, and is shaped so a grenade launcher can attach to it. Other than the auto capability, that is the only difference anybody has been able to mention.
well and the whole auto fire thing that you keep ignoring
I's not hard or expensive to convert an AR15 to full auto capability. It's illegal as hell, and you should be ready to spend a lot of time in prison, but it's not that hard to do.
If you have a file, pretty much any double action gun can be made full auto. The trouble is you can't stop it after you pull the trigger. AR's are simple to convert if you have the selector.





No, they aren't. As someone who actually HAS, legally converted an AR-15 into a M-16 it is actually quite easy if you have a full machine shop. Quite the opposite if you don't. And you need much more than just the selector lever, you need a disconnector, you need to drill the hole for the safety sear in EXACTLY the right position, if you're off by more than a couple of thousandths you're SOL. You have to change the bolt carrier, you have to change the firing pin, and, if you want it to work well, you'll need to upgrade the buffer, and buffer spring.

So, no. If you don't have access to a machine shop, it ain't easy.
How many of those parts are easily and legally available for purchase? How much of that list can be found on the shelf of any large gun shop? Next, please list any parts that aren't easily purchased.






All of them are legal. Except for in the state of californication. As far as availability goes, they aren't very available. When you can find them, they are expensive. And, because they are hard working parts, you can't just make them in a cheap 3D printer either.
Interesting, but not very specific. I'll go at it from a different angle. which of those parts can't be easily purchased without some sort of special license, permit, or other special permission. The ones that Joe Blow, on the street couldn't easily purchase.
 
OP
BULLDOG

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The M4 is the main rifle used by the US military, and no one could question that it is an assault rifle. The M4 is capable of full automatic fire, and 3 round burst, and the AR15 is not. Of course, it would be illegal, but the AR15 can easily be converted to allow those types of fire. Other than that difference, what makes an M4 an assault weapon, and an AR15 not?
.

You missed the boat on all this garbage.

You can fight about the M4 and the AR-15 until the cows come home.
You will never succeed with a gun control effort that attempts to identify firearms by names, types, or parts.
Adaptation an innovation always trumps the effort ... And they should have learned that with past Assault Weapons Ban.

The only way you can stop that is if you ban ... Shoots a bullet ... Which isn't going to happen ... :thup:

You are really just pissing in the wind and arguing about the irrelevant, no matter what side of the argument you are on.
You can get a custom made semi-automatic weapon that fires anywhere from a .223 to a 7.62 round for $1000.
It doesn't matter what the fuck they call it, or what it looks like.

.
Please point out where I brought up gun control, or any of the other things you mentioned. I asked simple question. You aren't obligated to come up with an answer if you don't know.





Like I said, your whole premise is to attack the AR platform which is a direct violation of the 2nd Amendment. You might be stupid (and you are), but we aren't.
So I'm attacking the AR platform, and that somehow puts me in direct violation of the 2nd amendment? Those are some pretty strong accusations, and require some sort of proof. Please provide links to prove either of your claims.
 

westwall

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I'm not seeing your point.

What is the material difference between this military issue M24 sniper rifle...

View attachment 489683

...and this extremely popular Remington 700 deer rifle...?


View attachment 489684

You should start a thread if you are looking for that answer. This thread is about the M4 and the AR15.
Figure it out, Einstein

That is the only attempt at an answer in the entire thread.
1. Barrel - The M4 has a shorter barrel, and is shaped to receive a grenade launcher.
2 Ammo. - The Ar15 can be chambered for several different shells, but the M4 is only capable of 5.56.
3 Automation - Until 1986, both rifles were legally capable of full automatic fire, but the AR15 was modified in 1986. Conversion back to auto fire is neither hard or expensive, but is illegal. ------------this was noted in the OP.
4 manufacturer
5. legality. This has been discussed, but is not a material difference in the guns, or the way they work. other than the already mentioned full auto capability.
6 Category. This is how they are referred to on paper, and has nothing to do with material differences between the rifles, other than the auto capability.

You did point out that the barrel is shaped a little different, but the purpose of that was to attach grenade launcher. Hardly a material difference in the accuracy, speed, or capability of long term continuous use. You got anything else to add to your list? The rest of the differences in your link are really just distinctions without any real differences.


Yeah...other rifles are also convertible to full automatic fire....

See the North Hollywood shootout where the rifles were converted to fully automatic fire...yet, in the shootout...the two robbers, firing fully automatic at the police didn't manage to kill anyone.....both, however, were killed by police using semi-automatic weapons...

So again, it isn't the weapon, it is the target location...in the North Hollywood shootout, the people they shot at were in the open, not in a building, and were behind cover.....so no one was killed by the fully automatic rifle fire.....however, again, both perps, even with their fully automatic rifles, were killed by police with semi-automatic weapons....

It isn't the weapon, it is the target location that makes all the difference....

Case in point...the 1984 FBI shooting, the two criminals had a mini-14 rifle, a semi-automatic rifle, and a pump action shotgun.....they managed to kill 2 FBI agents and wounded 5 others......

Again, it isn't the weapon, it is the target location.....in this case, the shooters were good shots.......the FBI weren't so good...

I am curious as to your point...where you would like to go with this....
The point is to find the material differences between the two rifles. In this thread I have learned the M4 has a shorter barrel, and is shaped so a grenade launcher can attach to it. Other than the auto capability, that is the only difference anybody has been able to mention.
well and the whole auto fire thing that you keep ignoring
I's not hard or expensive to convert an AR15 to full auto capability. It's illegal as hell, and you should be ready to spend a lot of time in prison, but it's not that hard to do.
If you have a file, pretty much any double action gun can be made full auto. The trouble is you can't stop it after you pull the trigger. AR's are simple to convert if you have the selector.





No, they aren't. As someone who actually HAS, legally converted an AR-15 into a M-16 it is actually quite easy if you have a full machine shop. Quite the opposite if you don't. And you need much more than just the selector lever, you need a disconnector, you need to drill the hole for the safety sear in EXACTLY the right position, if you're off by more than a couple of thousandths you're SOL. You have to change the bolt carrier, you have to change the firing pin, and, if you want it to work well, you'll need to upgrade the buffer, and buffer spring.

So, no. If you don't have access to a machine shop, it ain't easy.
Nothing is easy without the proper tools, I wasn't suggesting it could be converted with a hammer and a screwdriver. SMH.





You implied that all you needed was the selector lever. You don't know anything about AR's if that is your level of knowledge.
How far do you want to nit pick this ridiculous shit? I didn't see any prints or dimensions with your post either. C'mon man, the thread is stupid.





I agree the thread is stupid, but spreading misinformation about AR's is likewise STUPID. So knock it off. There are MANY people here who know what we are talking about, we get pissed off when some idiot, of whatever political persuasion comes here and spreads misinformation.
There was no misinformation spread. It is not difficult to convert. Nor is it all that difficult to obtain and M-16. It is also not illegal to own one if you have an FFL.





Once again, you show you know nothing about the subject. ANY person, who is legal to own firearms may legally own a TRANSFERABLE M-16. They just cost a lot. I see one up for offer at 55,000 bucks right now. A little high, but hey, they can ask whatever they want. But, the point is you don't need to have an FFL to own a legal machine gun. You are simply talking out your ass.

So yes, you are indeed spreading misinformation.
 

westwall

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I'm not seeing your point.

What is the material difference between this military issue M24 sniper rifle...

View attachment 489683

...and this extremely popular Remington 700 deer rifle...?


View attachment 489684

You should start a thread if you are looking for that answer. This thread is about the M4 and the AR15.
Figure it out, Einstein

That is the only attempt at an answer in the entire thread.
1. Barrel - The M4 has a shorter barrel, and is shaped to receive a grenade launcher.
2 Ammo. - The Ar15 can be chambered for several different shells, but the M4 is only capable of 5.56.
3 Automation - Until 1986, both rifles were legally capable of full automatic fire, but the AR15 was modified in 1986. Conversion back to auto fire is neither hard or expensive, but is illegal. ------------this was noted in the OP.
4 manufacturer
5. legality. This has been discussed, but is not a material difference in the guns, or the way they work. other than the already mentioned full auto capability.
6 Category. This is how they are referred to on paper, and has nothing to do with material differences between the rifles, other than the auto capability.

You did point out that the barrel is shaped a little different, but the purpose of that was to attach grenade launcher. Hardly a material difference in the accuracy, speed, or capability of long term continuous use. You got anything else to add to your list? The rest of the differences in your link are really just distinctions without any real differences.


Yeah...other rifles are also convertible to full automatic fire....

See the North Hollywood shootout where the rifles were converted to fully automatic fire...yet, in the shootout...the two robbers, firing fully automatic at the police didn't manage to kill anyone.....both, however, were killed by police using semi-automatic weapons...

So again, it isn't the weapon, it is the target location...in the North Hollywood shootout, the people they shot at were in the open, not in a building, and were behind cover.....so no one was killed by the fully automatic rifle fire.....however, again, both perps, even with their fully automatic rifles, were killed by police with semi-automatic weapons....

It isn't the weapon, it is the target location that makes all the difference....

Case in point...the 1984 FBI shooting, the two criminals had a mini-14 rifle, a semi-automatic rifle, and a pump action shotgun.....they managed to kill 2 FBI agents and wounded 5 others......

Again, it isn't the weapon, it is the target location.....in this case, the shooters were good shots.......the FBI weren't so good...

I am curious as to your point...where you would like to go with this....
The point is to find the material differences between the two rifles. In this thread I have learned the M4 has a shorter barrel, and is shaped so a grenade launcher can attach to it. Other than the auto capability, that is the only difference anybody has been able to mention.
well and the whole auto fire thing that you keep ignoring
I's not hard or expensive to convert an AR15 to full auto capability. It's illegal as hell, and you should be ready to spend a lot of time in prison, but it's not that hard to do.
If you have a file, pretty much any double action gun can be made full auto. The trouble is you can't stop it after you pull the trigger. AR's are simple to convert if you have the selector.





No, they aren't. As someone who actually HAS, legally converted an AR-15 into a M-16 it is actually quite easy if you have a full machine shop. Quite the opposite if you don't. And you need much more than just the selector lever, you need a disconnector, you need to drill the hole for the safety sear in EXACTLY the right position, if you're off by more than a couple of thousandths you're SOL. You have to change the bolt carrier, you have to change the firing pin, and, if you want it to work well, you'll need to upgrade the buffer, and buffer spring.

So, no. If you don't have access to a machine shop, it ain't easy.
How many of those parts are easily and legally available for purchase? How much of that list can be found on the shelf of any large gun shop? Next, please list any parts that aren't easily purchased.






All of them are legal. Except for in the state of californication. As far as availability goes, they aren't very available. When you can find them, they are expensive. And, because they are hard working parts, you can't just make them in a cheap 3D printer either.
Interesting, but not very specific. I'll go at it from a different angle. which of those parts can't be easily purchased without some sort of special license, permit, or other special permission. The ones that Joe Blow, on the street couldn't easily purchase.






Actually, I was VERY specific. No special permission is required to buy ANY of those parts. They are just difficult to find because there is no demand, so why make something that has low demand?
 

westwall

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The M4 is the main rifle used by the US military, and no one could question that it is an assault rifle. The M4 is capable of full automatic fire, and 3 round burst, and the AR15 is not. Of course, it would be illegal, but the AR15 can easily be converted to allow those types of fire. Other than that difference, what makes an M4 an assault weapon, and an AR15 not?
.

You missed the boat on all this garbage.

You can fight about the M4 and the AR-15 until the cows come home.
You will never succeed with a gun control effort that attempts to identify firearms by names, types, or parts.
Adaptation an innovation always trumps the effort ... And they should have learned that with past Assault Weapons Ban.

The only way you can stop that is if you ban ... Shoots a bullet ... Which isn't going to happen ... :thup:

You are really just pissing in the wind and arguing about the irrelevant, no matter what side of the argument you are on.
You can get a custom made semi-automatic weapon that fires anywhere from a .223 to a 7.62 round for $1000.
It doesn't matter what the fuck they call it, or what it looks like.

.
Please point out where I brought up gun control, or any of the other things you mentioned. I asked simple question. You aren't obligated to come up with an answer if you don't know.





Like I said, your whole premise is to attack the AR platform which is a direct violation of the 2nd Amendment. You might be stupid (and you are), but we aren't.
So I'm attacking the AR platform, and that somehow puts me in direct violation of the 2nd amendment? Those are some pretty strong accusations, and require some sort of proof. Please provide links to prove either of your claims.





Yes, you are trying to say that the civilian AR is the same as the military M4, and then you claim that military arms have no place in civilized society. Thus you are trying to lay the groundwork for agreement with your fallacious assumption.
 

Paulie

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I'm not seeing your point.

What is the material difference between this military issue M24 sniper rifle...

View attachment 489683

...and this extremely popular Remington 700 deer rifle...?


View attachment 489684

You should start a thread if you are looking for that answer. This thread is about the M4 and the AR15.
Figure it out, Einstein

That is the only attempt at an answer in the entire thread.
1. Barrel - The M4 has a shorter barrel, and is shaped to receive a grenade launcher.
2 Ammo. - The Ar15 can be chambered for several different shells, but the M4 is only capable of 5.56.
3 Automation - Until 1986, both rifles were legally capable of full automatic fire, but the AR15 was modified in 1986. Conversion back to auto fire is neither hard or expensive, but is illegal. ------------this was noted in the OP.
4 manufacturer
5. legality. This has been discussed, but is not a material difference in the guns, or the way they work. other than the already mentioned full auto capability.
6 Category. This is how they are referred to on paper, and has nothing to do with material differences between the rifles, other than the auto capability.

You did point out that the barrel is shaped a little different, but the purpose of that was to attach grenade launcher. Hardly a material difference in the accuracy, speed, or capability of long term continuous use. You got anything else to add to your list? The rest of the differences in your link are really just distinctions without any real differences.


Yeah...other rifles are also convertible to full automatic fire....

See the North Hollywood shootout where the rifles were converted to fully automatic fire...yet, in the shootout...the two robbers, firing fully automatic at the police didn't manage to kill anyone.....both, however, were killed by police using semi-automatic weapons...

So again, it isn't the weapon, it is the target location...in the North Hollywood shootout, the people they shot at were in the open, not in a building, and were behind cover.....so no one was killed by the fully automatic rifle fire.....however, again, both perps, even with their fully automatic rifles, were killed by police with semi-automatic weapons....

It isn't the weapon, it is the target location that makes all the difference....

Case in point...the 1984 FBI shooting, the two criminals had a mini-14 rifle, a semi-automatic rifle, and a pump action shotgun.....they managed to kill 2 FBI agents and wounded 5 others......

Again, it isn't the weapon, it is the target location.....in this case, the shooters were good shots.......the FBI weren't so good...

I am curious as to your point...where you would like to go with this....
The point is to find the material differences between the two rifles. In this thread I have learned the M4 has a shorter barrel, and is shaped so a grenade launcher can attach to it. Other than the auto capability, that is the only difference anybody has been able to mention.
well and the whole auto fire thing that you keep ignoring
I's not hard or expensive to convert an AR15 to full auto capability. It's illegal as hell, and you should be ready to spend a lot of time in prison, but it's not that hard to do.
If you have a file, pretty much any double action gun can be made full auto. The trouble is you can't stop it after you pull the trigger. AR's are simple to convert if you have the selector.





No, they aren't. As someone who actually HAS, legally converted an AR-15 into a M-16 it is actually quite easy if you have a full machine shop. Quite the opposite if you don't. And you need much more than just the selector lever, you need a disconnector, you need to drill the hole for the safety sear in EXACTLY the right position, if you're off by more than a couple of thousandths you're SOL. You have to change the bolt carrier, you have to change the firing pin, and, if you want it to work well, you'll need to upgrade the buffer, and buffer spring.

So, no. If you don't have access to a machine shop, it ain't easy.
It’s a stupid point anyway.
This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.
It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.
It’s not an honest question because the term “assault weapon” is not honest to begin with. There’s no such thing as an assault weapon. It’s literally the same thing as saying a butter knife is just a knife but a butcher’s cleaver is an assault knife. It’s just stupid.
I already acknowledged my mistake in using the term "assault weapon" instead of "assault rifle" earlier in this thread. Does the use of "assault rifle" make the question any more palatable to you?
No, it’s the same damn thing. And it’s the reason you’re not getting the answers you’re looking for. The same round the AR15 fires can also be fired from a much less scary looking brown hunting rifle. These are the kinds of details you clearly don’t understand, which make your position on this entire debate weak.
Of course, there are several different types of guns that fire the same caliber as others. What makes you think I'm unaware of that? I acknowledged the difference between assault weapon and assault rifle, because assault rifle is a specific term used by the military, and assault weapon is not. Real and verifiable answers to the material differences between those two rifles is pretty specific. If you are unable to offer any of those, or just want to whine about what you imagine my purpose for this thread might be, then you are free to go elsewhere. This thread is not a debate. I made no claims about the differences between the two rifles, other than to discuss claims by others.
We all know your purpose here is to demonize the scary looking black rifles.
 

westwall

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I'm not seeing your point.

What is the material difference between this military issue M24 sniper rifle...

View attachment 489683

...and this extremely popular Remington 700 deer rifle...?


View attachment 489684

You should start a thread if you are looking for that answer. This thread is about the M4 and the AR15.
Figure it out, Einstein

That is the only attempt at an answer in the entire thread.
1. Barrel - The M4 has a shorter barrel, and is shaped to receive a grenade launcher.
2 Ammo. - The Ar15 can be chambered for several different shells, but the M4 is only capable of 5.56.
3 Automation - Until 1986, both rifles were legally capable of full automatic fire, but the AR15 was modified in 1986. Conversion back to auto fire is neither hard or expensive, but is illegal. ------------this was noted in the OP.
4 manufacturer
5. legality. This has been discussed, but is not a material difference in the guns, or the way they work. other than the already mentioned full auto capability.
6 Category. This is how they are referred to on paper, and has nothing to do with material differences between the rifles, other than the auto capability.

You did point out that the barrel is shaped a little different, but the purpose of that was to attach grenade launcher. Hardly a material difference in the accuracy, speed, or capability of long term continuous use. You got anything else to add to your list? The rest of the differences in your link are really just distinctions without any real differences.


Yeah...other rifles are also convertible to full automatic fire....

See the North Hollywood shootout where the rifles were converted to fully automatic fire...yet, in the shootout...the two robbers, firing fully automatic at the police didn't manage to kill anyone.....both, however, were killed by police using semi-automatic weapons...

So again, it isn't the weapon, it is the target location...in the North Hollywood shootout, the people they shot at were in the open, not in a building, and were behind cover.....so no one was killed by the fully automatic rifle fire.....however, again, both perps, even with their fully automatic rifles, were killed by police with semi-automatic weapons....

It isn't the weapon, it is the target location that makes all the difference....

Case in point...the 1984 FBI shooting, the two criminals had a mini-14 rifle, a semi-automatic rifle, and a pump action shotgun.....they managed to kill 2 FBI agents and wounded 5 others......

Again, it isn't the weapon, it is the target location.....in this case, the shooters were good shots.......the FBI weren't so good...

I am curious as to your point...where you would like to go with this....
The point is to find the material differences between the two rifles. In this thread I have learned the M4 has a shorter barrel, and is shaped so a grenade launcher can attach to it. Other than the auto capability, that is the only difference anybody has been able to mention.
well and the whole auto fire thing that you keep ignoring
I's not hard or expensive to convert an AR15 to full auto capability. It's illegal as hell, and you should be ready to spend a lot of time in prison, but it's not that hard to do.
If you have a file, pretty much any double action gun can be made full auto. The trouble is you can't stop it after you pull the trigger. AR's are simple to convert if you have the selector.





No, they aren't. As someone who actually HAS, legally converted an AR-15 into a M-16 it is actually quite easy if you have a full machine shop. Quite the opposite if you don't. And you need much more than just the selector lever, you need a disconnector, you need to drill the hole for the safety sear in EXACTLY the right position, if you're off by more than a couple of thousandths you're SOL. You have to change the bolt carrier, you have to change the firing pin, and, if you want it to work well, you'll need to upgrade the buffer, and buffer spring.

So, no. If you don't have access to a machine shop, it ain't easy.
It’s a stupid point anyway.
This GOTCHA attempt is so lame, we need to call in a veterinarian and have it put down.
It's an honest question. All I want is an honest answer.
It’s not an honest question because the term “assault weapon” is not honest to begin with. There’s no such thing as an assault weapon. It’s literally the same thing as saying a butter knife is just a knife but a butcher’s cleaver is an assault knife. It’s just stupid.
I already acknowledged my mistake in using the term "assault weapon" instead of "assault rifle" earlier in this thread. Does the use of "assault rifle" make the question any more palatable to you?
No, it’s the same damn thing. And it’s the reason you’re not getting the answers you’re looking for. The same round the AR15 fires can also be fired from a much less scary looking brown hunting rifle. These are the kinds of details you clearly don’t understand, which make your position on this entire debate weak.
Of course, there are several different types of guns that fire the same caliber as others. What makes you think I'm unaware of that? I acknowledged the difference between assault weapon and assault rifle, because assault rifle is a specific term used by the military, and assault weapon is not. Real and verifiable answers to the material differences between those two rifles is pretty specific. If you are unable to offer any of those, or just want to whine about what you imagine my purpose for this thread might be, then you are free to go elsewhere. This thread is not a debate. I made no claims about the differences between the two rifles, other than to discuss claims by others.
We all know your purpose here is to demonize the scary looking black rifles.




Yup. We all know it, bulldoggy thinks she is smart. But she's not.
 
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BULLDOG

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The M4 is the main rifle used by the US military, and no one could question that it is an assault rifle. The M4 is capable of full automatic fire, and 3 round burst, and the AR15 is not. Of course, it would be illegal, but the AR15 can easily be converted to allow those types of fire. Other than that difference, what makes an M4 an assault weapon, and an AR15 not?

First of all the M4 comes with three round burst and single shot.
The M4a1 comes with single shot and full auto.
At least do a little research before posting.
No. I didn't list every sub category of the M4. There are a few.
1621106200127.png
 
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BULLDOG

BULLDOG

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Please point out where I brought up gun control, or any of the other things you mentioned. I asked simple question. You aren't obligated to come up with an answer if you don't know.
.

The question is irrelevant in any other context ... Because it doesn't make a damn bit difference what identifier you want to use.
It doesn't matter if you call it a M4, AR-15, or Micky's Boar Destroyer 1006.

It's quite possible that would go a long ways towards answering your retarded question, and whatever might have anything to do with it ... :thup:
However you may want to identify a firearm by what exists, is irrelevant to whatever someone can develop to do the same thing.

.
If it is irrelevant to you, why are you here?
 

ESDRAELON

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Aren't there any smart gun enthusiasts that can answer my question?
The select-fire option is the basic difference. You seem to be trying to make the case that the average AR-owner is capable of the gunsmithing necessary to create a full-auto weapon. The truth is that these rifles are used in fewer killings than hammers or knives, or fists and feet, for that matter.

Here's a question right back atcha -
Is THIS an "assault weapon"?
1621106840963.png

It's a Ruger mini-14. It fires the same rounds as the AR and just as rapidly - one round for every pull of the trigger. The gaslighting bullshit about AR or AK-styled weapons is just that. When the government comes for the guns, they won't be stupid enough to try to grab them all at once. They take the AR/AK platform first, wait a while then come for all semi-autos of a certain caliber range, THEN they'll get around to the serious business of collecting the true tool of slaughter - semi-auto handguns.
*SPOILER ALERT* IT DOESN'T END WELL FOR THE DOOR KICKERS.
 
Last edited:

ESDRAELON

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No. I didn't list every sub category of the M4. There are a few.
View attachment 489860
.

And ... You can get a Custom firearm that does anything any of the M4's will do, that isn't a M4, or made with any part an M4 uses ... From a local gunsmith ... :thup:

.
Yes, but if you don't go through the government hoops to make it legal they can put you in jail for many years. The average citizen who can AFFORD to buy a full-auto as a toy CAN get one IF they pass the proctological exam by the ATF and have roughly 20K to spend on a rifle they can buy for 1500.
 
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BULLDOG

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I'm not seeing your point.

What is the material difference between this military issue M24 sniper rifle...

View attachment 489683

...and this extremely popular Remington 700 deer rifle...?


View attachment 489684

You should start a thread if you are looking for that answer. This thread is about the M4 and the AR15.
Figure it out, Einstein

That is the only attempt at an answer in the entire thread.
1. Barrel - The M4 has a shorter barrel, and is shaped to receive a grenade launcher.
2 Ammo. - The Ar15 can be chambered for several different shells, but the M4 is only capable of 5.56.
3 Automation - Until 1986, both rifles were legally capable of full automatic fire, but the AR15 was modified in 1986. Conversion back to auto fire is neither hard or expensive, but is illegal. ------------this was noted in the OP.
4 manufacturer
5. legality. This has been discussed, but is not a material difference in the guns, or the way they work. other than the already mentioned full auto capability.
6 Category. This is how they are referred to on paper, and has nothing to do with material differences between the rifles, other than the auto capability.

You did point out that the barrel is shaped a little different, but the purpose of that was to attach grenade launcher. Hardly a material difference in the accuracy, speed, or capability of long term continuous use. You got anything else to add to your list? The rest of the differences in your link are really just distinctions without any real differences.


Yeah...other rifles are also convertible to full automatic fire....

See the North Hollywood shootout where the rifles were converted to fully automatic fire...yet, in the shootout...the two robbers, firing fully automatic at the police didn't manage to kill anyone.....both, however, were killed by police using semi-automatic weapons...

So again, it isn't the weapon, it is the target location...in the North Hollywood shootout, the people they shot at were in the open, not in a building, and were behind cover.....so no one was killed by the fully automatic rifle fire.....however, again, both perps, even with their fully automatic rifles, were killed by police with semi-automatic weapons....

It isn't the weapon, it is the target location that makes all the difference....

Case in point...the 1984 FBI shooting, the two criminals had a mini-14 rifle, a semi-automatic rifle, and a pump action shotgun.....they managed to kill 2 FBI agents and wounded 5 others......

Again, it isn't the weapon, it is the target location.....in this case, the shooters were good shots.......the FBI weren't so good...

I am curious as to your point...where you would like to go with this....
The point is to find the material differences between the two rifles. In this thread I have learned the M4 has a shorter barrel, and is shaped so a grenade launcher can attach to it. Other than the auto capability, that is the only difference anybody has been able to mention.
well and the whole auto fire thing that you keep ignoring
I's not hard or expensive to convert an AR15 to full auto capability. It's illegal as hell, and you should be ready to spend a lot of time in prison, but it's not that hard to do.
If you have a file, pretty much any double action gun can be made full auto. The trouble is you can't stop it after you pull the trigger. AR's are simple to convert if you have the selector.





No, they aren't. As someone who actually HAS, legally converted an AR-15 into a M-16 it is actually quite easy if you have a full machine shop. Quite the opposite if you don't. And you need much more than just the selector lever, you need a disconnector, you need to drill the hole for the safety sear in EXACTLY the right position, if you're off by more than a couple of thousandths you're SOL. You have to change the bolt carrier, you have to change the firing pin, and, if you want it to work well, you'll need to upgrade the buffer, and buffer spring.

So, no. If you don't have access to a machine shop, it ain't easy.
How many of those parts are easily and legally available for purchase? How much of that list can be found on the shelf of any large gun shop? Next, please list any parts that aren't easily purchased.






All of them are legal. Except for in the state of californication. As far as availability goes, they aren't very available. When you can find them, they are expensive. And, because they are hard working parts, you can't just make them in a cheap 3D printer either.
Interesting, but not very specific. I'll go at it from a different angle. which of those parts can't be easily purchased without some sort of special license, permit, or other special permission. The ones that Joe Blow, on the street couldn't easily purchase.






Actually, I was VERY specific. No special permission is required to buy ANY of those parts. They are just difficult to find because there is no demand, so why make something that has low demand?
Just to be clear, you are saying that there is no real difference between an ordinary Ar15 and a fully automatic AR15, other than a few easily changed parts, right?
 

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