Nobel Prize For Palestinian Hero?

Again, Irgun and Hagannah, and all these armed groups were created to defend Jews in response to the Arab massacres of the 1920's and before. The problem with Arab Muslims back then is the same as it is today, they want to reserve the right to kill innocent people, without facing any consequences or their potential victims fighting back. So Begin was simply involved in defending fellow Jews and as a result helped create the Jewish state's armed forces.

Irgun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Founding

The Irgun's first steps were in the aftermath of the Riots of 1929. In the Jerusalem branch of the Haganah there were feelings of disappointment and internal unrest towards the leadership of the movements and the Histadrut (at that time the organization running the Haganah). These feelings were a result of the view that the Haganah was not adequately defending Jewish interests in the region. Likewise, critics of the leadership spoke out against alleged failures in the number of weapons, readiness of the movement and its policy of restraint and not fighting back. On April 10, 1931, commanders and equipment managers announced that they refuse to return weapons to the Haganah that had been issued to them earlier, prior to the Nebi Musa holiday. These weapons were later returned by the commander of the Jerusalem branch, Avraham Tehomi, a.k.a. "Gideon". However, the commanders who decided to rebel against the leadership of the Haganah relayed a message regarding their resignations to the Vaad Leumi, and thus this schism created a new independent movement.

The leader of the new underground movement was Avraham Tehomi, alongside other founding members who were all senior commanders in the Haganah, members of Hapoel Hatzair and of the Histadrut. Also among them was Eliyahu Ben Horin, an activist in the Revisionist Party. This group was known as the "Odessan Gang", because they previously had been members of the Haganah Ha'Atzmit of Jewish Odessa. The new movement was named Irgun Tsvai Leumi, ("National Military Organization") in order to emphasize its active nature in contrast to the Haganah. Moreover, the organization was founded with the desire to become a true military organization and not just a militia as the Haganah was at the time.

In the autumn of that year the Jerusalem group merged with other armed groups affiliated with Betar. The Betar groups' center of activity was in Tel Aviv, and they began their activity in 1928 with the establishment of "Officers and Instructors School of Betar". Students at this institution had broken away from the Haganah earlier, for political reasons, and the new group called itself the "National Defense", הגנה הלאומית. During the riots of 1929 Betar youth participated in the defense of Tel Aviv neighborhoods under the command of Yermiyahu Halperin, at the behest of the Tel Aviv city hall. After the riots the Tel Avivian group expanded, and was known as "The Right Wing Organization".

After the Tel Aviv expansion another branch was established in Haifa. Towards the end of 1932 the Haganah branch of Safedalso defected and joined the Irgun, as well as many members of the Maccabi sports association. At that time the movement's underground newsletter, Ha'Metsudah (the Fortress) also began publication, expressing the active trend of the movement. The Irgun also increased its numbers by expanding draft regiments of Betar – groups of volunteers, committed to two years of security and pioneer activities. These regiments were based in places that from which stemmed new Irgun strongholds in the many places, including the settlements of Yesod HaMa'ala, Mishmar HaYarden, Rosh Pina, Metula and Nahariya in the north; in the center – Hadera, Binyamina, Herzliya, Netanya and Kfar Saba, and south of there – Rishon LeZion, Rehovot and Ness Ziona. Later on regiments were also active in the Old City of Jerusalem ("the Kotel Brigades") among others. Primary training centers were based in Ramat Gan, Qastina (by Kiryat Mal'akhi of today) and other places.
 
Irgun did commit terrorist acts targeting civilians though - there were a lot of independent paramilitaries running around then.
 
Most Zionists will claim that Jewish terrorists never targeted civilians, and many Zionist websites make this baseless assertion. Fanatical Zionists believe that the killing of non-Jewish civilians is by definition, self-defense. That is what I have been able to discern from the various posts.

Hoffman, one of the foremost scholars of terrorism at Georgetown University said it best:

“Well it’s far more simple than that,” Hoffman replies. “No country that is created where terrorism has played some role wants to admit it, for fear of that weapon being used against them. And that’s what is really at the heart of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.”


After studying pre-state Jewish terrorists, author asks: Does terrorism work?
 
Who cares! The Arab Muslims started a civil war by trying to commit genocide on the Jews, and they failed.

Just like the Palestinian savages killed over 150,000 Christians in the Lebanese civil war. Christians had their own "Irgun" which fought the Palestinians as well, unfortunately the neighboring Arab Muslims flooded the Palestinians and other Muslim savages with overwhelming weapons and manpower.
 
The Jews invaded from Europe, how can native Palestinians have started anything?

As a Jew you keep trying to incite Christian Muslim strife. We aren't falling for it anymore. By the way, in Lebanon Christians fought on different sides. Palestinian Christians and left-wing Lebanese Christian militias fought the Falangist Christians.
 
Meh, nice try. Palestinians killed over 150,000 Lebanese Christians. You're only confusing yourself.

Now here come the repetitive IslamoNazi lies, apply soap, wash, rinse, repeat. LOL
 
Wait, I'm confused. What has Marwan actually done to create peace between Israel and Palestinians? You know, that's deserving of a Nobel Peace Prize?

I kind of see this as two different issues.

1. Is he worthy of a nomination? Arguments against it are the exact same arguments that would disqualify Begin or Mandella.

2. Is he worthy of the prize? That is arguable. I do think there is potential there, as he is arguing against violent resistance and for a political process. In this, I can see similarities to Mandella. That is not to say he should be the winner - but it places him in the category of those who could legitimately be considered as opposed to the automatic rejection coming from some.


Fry him.

He's a convicted terrorist with no redeeming qualities, He's doing five life sentences with no chance of parole.

Save all that space and money and just fry him.

Would you have fried Begin? Mandella?

Neither Begin nor Mandella were serving five life sentences for murdering civilians

Begin was never caught and prosecuted for his crimes. Does that mean his murders deserve a free pass?

What murders ? There were no investigations, no convictions, no evidence to suggest he murdered anyone.

The fact is he was defending against Arab Muslim aggression. ;--) Remember the Arab Muslims declared they would wipe out every Israeli from the river to the sea. Yeah, not happening
 
Most Zionists will claim that Jewish terrorists never targeted civilians, and many Zionist websites make this baseless assertion. Fanatical Zionists believe that the killing of non-Jewish civilians is by definition, self-defense. That is what I have been able to discern from the various posts.

Hoffman, one of the foremost scholars of terrorism at Georgetown University said it best:

“Well it’s far more simple than that,” Hoffman replies. “No country that is created where terrorism has played some role wants to admit it, for fear of that weapon being used against them. And that’s what is really at the heart of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.”


After studying pre-state Jewish terrorists, author asks: Does terrorism work?


Speaking of baseless, you seem desperate to run the typical Arab Muslim hasbara up the flag pole but consistently provide zero evidence to support your views.

So why should an Arab Muslim terrorist be awarded instead of fried ?
 
Ask team Palestine the same questions and get ready for the deathly silence.

Huh? I answered.

Ask how firing a weapon packed with rat poison into a schoolyard is defending yourself ?

Who said it was? Not I. You're the one trying to make mass attacks on civilians "self defense".

The whole Nobel peace prize was shown to be a farce when Obama was given it for tying his shoes

I agree, it has been a farce in some cases - but I think in other cases is has been well deserved, for instance Mandella.





No I asked the question WHY THESE ACTS WERE DONE and you have skirted that issue.

I've skirted nothing.

Does the "WHY" matter when the target is a civilian target like a crowded market place or a cinema? Like most cases of terrorism the "WHY" is to produce terror in the targeted population.

Are you trying to justify this?

As for mandella he was still orchestrating mass murders of blacks while he was in prison, if anyone deserved to be executed it was him and his wife Winnie. Do you know he ordered the necklacing of more black South Africans than the Boers shot while in power

Killing civilians is killing civilians. I just find it interesting that you are trying to justify one and condemn the other.

In either case - both Begin and Mandella went on to promote peace and reconciliation and achieved it and that is what makes it worthy of a Peace Prize.





NO unlike team Palestine that have to justify every act by the Palestinians along race lines.

Wrong I condemn all terrorist attacks on civlians

Really?

One was fighting for his very existence the other was a communist fighting to gain world domination. That is the difference.

Who is fighting for world domination?

Are you saying that the above justifies murdering civilians becuase it sure sounds like it.





The muslims and neo marxists of course it is part of their religion.
.
 
Does anybody notice how these vile things never ask the question "Why shouldn't Charles Manson be nominated for the peace prize?" and then proceed to offer reams of sophistry towards that end?

The fact the Jews are the targets legitimizes the killers in the black hearts of these evil creatures.

Who's making the argument that Manson should be, and is Manson even comparable to Begin, Mandella or Marwan? Talk about using extremes.





Is the actions of a religious extremist the same as the actions of a person defending his people from genocide. That is the real question you should be asking. Again I point you to the koran and hadiths that command the muslims to " KILL THE JEWS " and " KILL THE UNBELIEVERS "

Explain to me again how setting a bomb off in a crowded civilian market place equals "defending his people from genocide".





What bomb in what civilian market place. Retaliating for the mass murders of thousands of Jews by the British is what he did, and targeted the British in palestine
 
What crimes did Begin commit then, and only those he was arrested for count. Anything else is just hearsay and conjecture.

Mandella was arrested and tried for his crimes which included murder and terrorism, he refused to denounce his terrorism so should have hung for it.




:lmao: - ok, so you are claiming only those arrested and prosecuted committed crimes? Seriously? Begin was a commander of Irgun, a terrorist paramilitary group. Their actions like those of Hamas, are a matter of record particularly when they claimed credit.

ISIS has committed many atrocities and murders. Few, if any, of their commanders have been brought to justice. Therefore, according to your logic, ISIS hasn't committed those crimes. Really now?

Neither Begin nor Mandella renounced the use of violence.





Yes under any civilised nations laws that is the case, otherwise I could accuse you of raping and murdering children and you would be stigmatised for the rest of your life.

True.

Not at all the authorities are waiting until they are in a position to arrest the criminals and then they will be tried. Does not mean they have not committed the crimes at all. In the case of Begin he could have been arrested and tried many times and the British did nothing. Could it be they had something to hide from the world, like the mass murder of 10's of 1000's of Jews fleeing Europe and the Nazi's ?

He was never captured. That does not mean he wasn't guilty. Just like ISIS. Just like Hamas. He was the commander of Irgun and as a result, responsible for ordering what they did - just like a Hamas commander. If the British mass murdered Jews, that doesn't make Begin's actions any less horrific nor does it justify them. They are civilian targets.




The targets were those that were attacking the Jews in Palestine, not civilians. Like the arab muslims action on the orders of the grand mufti or the British establishment sending thousands of Jews to their deaths. I am ashamed of my nations past history in the M.E. and other places when they killed thousands for no other reason than they were a different culture or religion.
So how is Begin guilty of the deaths caused by defence of the Jewish people and not the Palestinians that do the same thing. Or for that matter you who defends the actions of the Palestinians when they attack Jewish women and children., and don't say you don't as the evidence is on this board.

You are on very thin ice here - you are essentially justifying Palestinian targeting of civilians.

Some of Irgun's attacks during Begin's commandership:

1946, October 31 Bombing of the British Embassy in Rome. Nearly half the building was destroyed and 3 people were injured.
1947, December 12 20 killed, 5 wounded by barrel bomb at Damascus Gate.
1947, December 16(ca) 10 killed by bomb at Noga Cinema in Jaffa.
1948, January 7 20 Arabs killed by bomb at Jaffa Gate.

These were civilian targets much like the targets Hamas chooses.

Bombs, especially barrel bombs are indiscriminate and designed to do as much damage to human flesh as possible.





So a link to a link of a link to wikipedia is now the only evidence that is true. Would your claim stand up in a court of law ?

Where is the supporting evidence to show that the Jews did the killings ?





And if you bother to look the vast majority were actions against attacks on the Jews by arab muslim terrorists.

They happened during the civil war instituted by the arab muslims in 1947/1948 or the arab revolt of 1937/1939.

They were not premeditated mass murders as you are trying to claim, but responces to armed attacks.
 
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Irgun did commit terrorist acts targeting civilians though - there were a lot of independent paramilitaries running around then.






Depends on how much you hate the Jews. In many people when they see the evidence they justify the Jews actions as reprisals to armed arab muslim attacks. The Jew haters say that they were premeditated mass murders to ethnically cleanse Palestine of the Christians and muslims.
 
The Jews invaded from Europe, how can native Palestinians have started anything?

As a Jew you keep trying to incite Christian Muslim strife. We aren't falling for it anymore. By the way, in Lebanon Christians fought on different sides. Palestinian Christians and left-wing Lebanese Christian militias fought the Falangist Christians.






Because they didn't invade at all they were invited. It was the European Catholics that invaded the Americas.

They lost that when they sided with the Ottomans and became just ottoman citizens
 
I kind of see this as two different issues.

1. Is he worthy of a nomination? Arguments against it are the exact same arguments that would disqualify Begin or Mandella.

2. Is he worthy of the prize? That is arguable. I do think there is potential there, as he is arguing against violent resistance and for a political process. In this, I can see similarities to Mandella. That is not to say he should be the winner - but it places him in the category of those who could legitimately be considered as opposed to the automatic rejection coming from some.


Fry him.

He's a convicted terrorist with no redeeming qualities, He's doing five life sentences with no chance of parole.

Save all that space and money and just fry him.

Would you have fried Begin? Mandella?

Neither Begin nor Mandella were serving five life sentences for murdering civilians

Begin was never caught and prosecuted for his crimes. Does that mean his murders deserve a free pass?

What murders ? There were no investigations, no convictions, no evidence to suggest he murdered anyone.

The fact is he was defending against Arab Muslim aggression. ;--) Remember the Arab Muslims declared they would wipe out every Israeli from the river to the sea. Yeah, not happening

Ok..then, using your logic, there is no evidence to suggest ISIS has murdered most of the people attributed to them.
 
Fry him.

He's a convicted terrorist with no redeeming qualities, He's doing five life sentences with no chance of parole.

Save all that space and money and just fry him.

Would you have fried Begin? Mandella?

Neither Begin nor Mandella were serving five life sentences for murdering civilians

Begin was never caught and prosecuted for his crimes. Does that mean his murders deserve a free pass?

What murders ? There were no investigations, no convictions, no evidence to suggest he murdered anyone.

The fact is he was defending against Arab Muslim aggression. ;--) Remember the Arab Muslims declared they would wipe out every Israeli from the river to the sea. Yeah, not happening

Ok..then, using your logic, there is no evidence to suggest ISIS has murdered most of the people attributed to them.

LMAO

tumblr_mj9wfl8Yf41qete80o1_500.gif


Say, since there aren't any Arab Muslim hero's sitting in Israeli prisons can we get the title of this thread changed to Can you Believe Arab Muslim Terrorist are Trying to Run Another Terrorist up the Flag Pole.
 
Speaking of baseless, you seem desperate to run the typical Arab Muslim hasbara up the flag pole but consistently provide zero evidence to support your views.

So why should an Arab Muslim terrorist be awarded instead of fried ?


I have been watching this creature for many years, as this is not the only board I have encountered her. She is absolutely relentless and dogged in her pattern of dishonesty, always focusing on advancing an Islamist agenda and always focusing on attacks on Jews. Unlike somebody like Odium, however, who is at least straightforward and honest in his views, Coyote offers up these reams of hatred while also denying she is doing so. As long as something involves dead Jews, she will find ways to defend it. She always has and she always will.


There is a certain psychological profile that is attracted to antisemitic themes, and Arab propagandists have crafted their rhetoric to appeal to these dysfunctional individuals. Since antisemitic canards always focus on Jews as rich, powerful, conniving and secretive, it attracts those who lack a sense of self-worth. In seeking a source for their own lack of accomplishment, it becomes all too easy to blame Jews, and in the worst cases, this blaming takes the form of an obsessive campaign to destroy them. These sick individuals actually imagine themselves as being champions of justice in their persecution.

Losers looking for a cause with which to elevate their sense of purpose in life don't need to justify WHAT they are championing, as their need to feel themselves a champion is all that matters. That is why we are all dealing with all this enormous double speak involving the pressing forth of a truly repulsive agenda coupled with the immediate denial of what that agenda happens to be.

I think you have some issues...just saying. They psychological term is "projection". Given that you heroize an anti-semite who tortured live animals on stage - it's not surprising. Now, let's move past your your fecal dump on this thread and discuss the topic - something your post is missing.

I've provided plenty of "evidence" to support my views, which are this (and I've said it several times): There is no reason not to nominate him, given the credentials of past nominees. The Nobel Peace Prize is not a "Mother Theresa Prize" - the nominees don't have to be "nice" people or even "good" people, or have led exemplary lives - they just needed to have done something significant towards peace (though, it's become a bit of a farce given some nominations). Saying there is no reason to nominate him, isn't the same as saying he deserves to win it - we have yet to see what he has done to contribute to peace in more depth than has been provided.

If you are going to take another dump in this thread, let me know so I can bring my waders.
 
Would you have fried Begin? Mandella?

Neither Begin nor Mandella were serving five life sentences for murdering civilians

Begin was never caught and prosecuted for his crimes. Does that mean his murders deserve a free pass?

What murders ? There were no investigations, no convictions, no evidence to suggest he murdered anyone.

The fact is he was defending against Arab Muslim aggression. ;--) Remember the Arab Muslims declared they would wipe out every Israeli from the river to the sea. Yeah, not happening

Ok..then, using your logic, there is no evidence to suggest ISIS has murdered most of the people attributed to them.

LMAO

tumblr_mj9wfl8Yf41qete80o1_500.gif


Say, since there aren't any Arab Muslim hero's sitting in Israeli prisons can we get the title of this thread changed to Can you Believe Arab Muslim Terrorist are Trying to Run Another Terrorist up the Flag Pole.

There are a whole lot of ISIS commanders who have yet to be caught and brought to justice, therefore, according to you there is no evidence that they committed any crime ;)
 
Does anybody notice how these vile things never ask the question "Why shouldn't Charles Manson be nominated for the peace prize?" and then proceed to offer reams of sophistry towards that end?

The fact the Jews are the targets legitimizes the killers in the black hearts of these evil creatures.

Who's making the argument that Manson should be, and is Manson even comparable to Begin, Mandella or Marwan? Talk about using extremes.





Is the actions of a religious extremist the same as the actions of a person defending his people from genocide. That is the real question you should be asking. Again I point you to the koran and hadiths that command the muslims to " KILL THE JEWS " and " KILL THE UNBELIEVERS "

Explain to me again how setting a bomb off in a crowded civilian market place equals "defending his people from genocide".





What bomb in what civilian market place. Retaliating for the mass murders of thousands of Jews by the British is what he did, and targeted the British in palestine

Google list of Irgun attacks - I've provided plenty of examples.

So, let me get this straight then - you are saying that when a bomb is set off in a crowded civilian center, targeting innocent civilians - it is justified because it is retaliation?

Seriously? Phoenall, this is when you need to stop digging.
 
Huh? I answered.

Who said it was? Not I. You're the one trying to make mass attacks on civilians "self defense".

I agree, it has been a farce in some cases - but I think in other cases is has been well deserved, for instance Mandella.





No I asked the question WHY THESE ACTS WERE DONE and you have skirted that issue.

I've skirted nothing.

Does the "WHY" matter when the target is a civilian target like a crowded market place or a cinema? Like most cases of terrorism the "WHY" is to produce terror in the targeted population.

Are you trying to justify this?

As for mandella he was still orchestrating mass murders of blacks while he was in prison, if anyone deserved to be executed it was him and his wife Winnie. Do you know he ordered the necklacing of more black South Africans than the Boers shot while in power

Killing civilians is killing civilians. I just find it interesting that you are trying to justify one and condemn the other.

In either case - both Begin and Mandella went on to promote peace and reconciliation and achieved it and that is what makes it worthy of a Peace Prize.





NO unlike team Palestine that have to justify every act by the Palestinians along race lines.

Wrong I condemn all terrorist attacks on civlians

Really?

One was fighting for his very existence the other was a communist fighting to gain world domination. That is the difference.

Who is fighting for world domination?

Are you saying that the above justifies murdering civilians becuase it sure sounds like it.





The muslims and neo marxists of course it is part of their religion.
.

The Palestinians are fighting for a state, not world domination. I have no idea where the neo-marxists fit. Your replies seem non-sequitor.
 
Speaking of baseless, you seem desperate to run the typical Arab Muslim hasbara up the flag pole but consistently provide zero evidence to support your views.

So why should an Arab Muslim terrorist be awarded instead of fried ?


I have been watching this creature for many years, as this is not the only board I have encountered her. She is absolutely relentless and dogged in her pattern of dishonesty, always focusing on advancing an Islamist agenda and always focusing on attacks on Jews. Unlike somebody like Odium, however, who is at least straightforward and honest in his views, Coyote offers up these reams of hatred while also denying she is doing so. As long as something involves dead Jews, she will find ways to defend it. She always has and she always will.


There is a certain psychological profile that is attracted to antisemitic themes, and Arab propagandists have crafted their rhetoric to appeal to these dysfunctional individuals. Since antisemitic canards always focus on Jews as rich, powerful, conniving and secretive, it attracts those who lack a sense of self-worth. In seeking a source for their own lack of accomplishment, it becomes all too easy to blame Jews, and in the worst cases, this blaming takes the form of an obsessive campaign to destroy them. These sick individuals actually imagine themselves as being champions of justice in their persecution.

Losers looking for a cause with which to elevate their sense of purpose in life don't need to justify WHAT they are championing, as their need to feel themselves a champion is all that matters. That is why we are all dealing with all this enormous double speak involving the pressing forth of a truly repulsive agenda coupled with the immediate denial of what that agenda happens to be.

I think you have some issues...just saying. They psychological term is "projection". Given that you heroize an anti-semite who tortured live animals on stage - it's not surprising. Now, let's move past your your fecal dump on this thread and discuss the topic - something your post is missing.

I've provided plenty of "evidence" to support my views, which are this (and I've said it several times): There is no reason not to nominate him, given the credentials of past nominees. The Nobel Peace Prize is not a "Mother Theresa Prize" - the nominees don't have to be "nice" people or even "good" people, or have led exemplary lives - they just needed to have done something significant towards peace (though, it's become a bit of a farce given some nominations). Saying there is no reason to nominate him, isn't the same as saying he deserves to win it - we have yet to see what he has done to contribute to peace in more depth than has been provided.

If you are going to take another dump in this thread, let me know so I can bring my waders.


There is no projection here, nor do I idolize any anybody for killing animals on stage.

....She claims while taking a dump.

You posting pattern is clear, and you are clearly so wrapped up in championing Islamist terrorists that you have completely lost any ability to reason -- even if you did have any to begin with.

Nominating a dedicated mass murder for his desire to murder en masse' is so beyond the pale that only a complete piece of human excrement would suggest it should even be considered.
 

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